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#2501 Barry Boor

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 22:25

this silly series



Will Mr. Beard please tell us how many A1GP races he has actually seen.....  ;) :)

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#2502 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 22:25

Here in the States, it seems that an issue is often on the magazine rack at Borders before or right at its appearing in the mailbox here at home. Some things are eternal, I suppose.

As for the shift in editorial direction that I have noticed, not sure that it is exactly what I signed on for, but then again, why I am not surprised at this happening?

#2503 petefenelon

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 09:04

Originally posted by Barry Boor


Will Mr. Beard please tell us how many A1GP races he has actually seen.....  ;) :)


Seconded; A1GP is no 'sillier' than any other sub-F1 one-make single seater series - some of the races I've seen have been every bit as good as anything in GP2, IRL, World Series by Renault etc. And the ever-changing drivers? Remember F3000 circa 1990? ;P Great racing even if there was a lot of cockpit-hopping.

Yes, the tyres are wooden and the pit-crews sometimes lack experience. It'll shake down. And the profile of A1 (and A2/A3) will increase as Ferrari ramp up their involvement.

#2504 F1Fanatic.co.uk

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 09:11

Originally posted by petefenelon
Seconded; A1GP is no 'sillier' than any other sub-F1 one-make single seater series

Thirded. My only complaint is the contrived pit stop rules.

#2505 Muz Bee

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 12:27

Originally posted by petefenelon


Seconded; A1GP is no 'sillier' than any other sub-F1 one-make single seater series - some of the races I've seen have been every bit as good as anything in GP2, IRL, World Series by Renault etc. And the ever-changing drivers? Remember F3000 circa 1990? ;P Great racing even if there was a lot of cockpit-hopping.

Yes, the tyres are wooden and the pit-crews sometimes lack experience. It'll shake down. And the profile of A1 (and A2/A3) will increase as Ferrari ramp up their involvement.


Sigh.. Another dull aero package class that entails "get out of my way or we crash" tactics and contrived rules like pitstop windows and boost buttons. Notwithstanding my country's (New Zealand's) involvement I think it's tedious in the xtreme.

IRL has iplenty going for it with excitng banked oval duels, real tactical battles on road courses like Laguna Seca, and some genuinely top teams (Penske, Ganassi) and drivers (Castroneves, Kanaan, Dixon, Wheldon) and an iconic event (Indianapolis 500).

Having been a single seater "purist" for many years I thought US oval racing was a bit second rate until the current IRL started to draw the Champcar teams and drivers over to it. The making of peace between the two factions and the likely inclusion of more road courses could make IRL the most exciting open wheeler rival to F1.

Motorsport magazine has introduced a lot of wider motorsport to it's repertoir and is in my opinion healthier and more interesting for it.

#2506 David Beard

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 17:16

Originally posted by Barry Boor


Will Mr. Beard please tell us how many A1GP races he has actually seen.....  ;) :)


Enough ;)

#2507 kayemod

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 17:21

Originally posted by David Beard


Enough ;)


I wasn't asked of course, but my own answers would be "none, and not likely to".

#2508 sterling49

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 17:36

I went to the A1 race at Brands Hatch in 2006/2007, it really did not impress me too much, the cars were not that fast, they made a nice noise although the racing was not really that close, I am not complaining, just making an observation.But I doubt if I will go again.

#2509 john aston

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 21:17

Never seen them but suspect am not the only one who desperately misses having a definitive fast single seater formula below F1 - loved F2 , F3000 and F5000 but hopelessly confused at plethora of competing second rung series.I find A1 GP a little too contrived conceptually and have lost track of who is the next big thing in any of the Nissan/Renault/GP2 etc competition.Whatever- I just want to see big noisy single seaters at Oulton and Donington again - not having to read about a poorly attended race at such shrines to racing as bloody Bahrein and Malaysia( Suzuka's fine - I am no xenophobe ) but I am soooo bored by these Tilke hell holes .

#2510 fines

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 21:45

What's the point in watching two dozen identical cars??? :confused: What happened to the great days of competition??? And I don't mean "who's faster in changing tyres & refueling?"! :rolleyes:

#2511 Barry Boor

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 21:55

I cannot disagree with your sentiments, Michael, BUT, you have just got to face up to the financial realities of modern life.

Like you I would LOVE to see 5 or 6 manufacturers in EVERY racing category but the money just ain't there.

Also, with the technology involved in ALL international racing categories, if one manufacturer finds the 'unfair' advantage, like Dallara did in F.3 some years ago, everyone moves across to their chassis and the rest die.

Until we have regulations that allow the best drivers to overcome car inadequacies, as Moss, Clark, Stewart etc were able to do, all these types of racing will always gravitate towards one chassis.....

Hence one make racing.

#2512 sterling49

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 21:58

Originally posted by fines
What's the point in watching two dozen identical cars??? :confused: What happened to the great days of competition??? And I don't mean "who's faster in changing tyres & refueling?"! :rolleyes:


That's about my take on it really.......My local Tyre Fitting Shop is not too good a place to spectate, so why should contrived tyre changes be :confused: I was also a trifle uncomfortable with all of the flag waving, maybe that is the whole point of the series :rolleyes: I agree with John, a clearly defined rung of Formulae, F1,F2,F3 and FF.....if I had my way, that would be 1 Litre F3, 1600 F2 and 3 Litre F1, what on earth is wrong with that? :lol: As our friends across the pond would say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" :smoking:

#2513 sterling49

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 22:09

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Like you I would LOVE to see 5 or 6 manufacturers in EVERY racing category but the money just ain't there.


But Barry, it seems to me that there is too much money in some motorsport, many teams have gigantic motorhomes, monkey bikes, awnings, golf carts, mahogany tressle tables, coolers for the Moet et Chandon, sorry for being an old synic, but if the money was spent on the cars and not the glitzy stuff.......if they have that amount of readies, perhaps the manufacturers should spot an opportunity of raising their selling prices :lol: To see some "clubman" testing with laptops and telemetry.....well, really!!!! Are they really looking for the last tenth :rolleyes:

#2514 Barry Boor

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 22:11

I was referring more to the cost of producing competitive cars rather than the people who buy and race them; but I agree with your point.

On the subject of the ladder of progression, perfectly sound reasoning but in the days when there was that 'ladder' the racing firmament was very small.

You had NO serious racing in Asia; none whatsoever in the Arabian world and if you look at the venues at which F.2 and F.3 races were run, you won't find that many different countries involved.

Now, the world and his Uncle Charlie want races. The plethora of categories has expanded to meet the needs of the circuits that want races. Hence, A1GP, GP2 Asia, WSR, etc etc etc.

We are getting a bit off the MotorSport topic aren't we? I blame David Beard..... :lol:

#2515 sterling49

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 22:13

Originally posted by Barry Boor

We are getting a bit off the MotorSport topic aren't we? I blame David Beard..... :lol:


Agreed, I will 2nd that!!! :lol:

#2516 john aston

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 05:41

Sorry yes off topic.But ...the world and his wife do NOT want races in their home countries.Their politicians and BCE may do some grubby little deal, Autosport may write some recycled press release about the hitherto unrecognised passion for racing that the people of Bahrain/ Singapore/ Turkemenistan may have but judging by the fact that 2 people and a camel go to Bahrain (and the camel is bored, and one of the people is an expat on a golfing break) I am not so sure.Ironic that there is still a huge appetite for racing in Europe but we get less and less important events .A plague on the house of Ecclestone say I.Excellent editorial more or less to this effect in Autosport this week- well done to Mark Hughes for putting his head above the parapet.
Sorry no old stuff in this post- plead in mitigation that I was watching Formula Juniors at the weekend(Cadwell)

#2517 mark f1

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 05:57

I've never purchased Motor Sport before, and whilst waiting for SWAMBO at a local mall in Australia, picked up the March 2008 issue. I was very impressed and thought the mix of current events and historical elements was spot on. Loved the Frank Gardner interview. Keeping an eye out for the April issue, which doesn't seem to have arrived at newsagents here yet, considering that you lot are already discussing May's issue...

Mark

#2518 fines

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 06:33

Originally posted by john aston
...and the camel is bored...

:lol: Never thought I'd sympathize with a camel, though...

#2519 Gary Davies

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:47

I note from the May 2008 features page on the Motor Sport website that one such is described as "Phillip Island historics meeting - Celebrating 80 years of racing on the south Australian isle" (Their use of a lower case 's' for South!)

As much as geographical inaccuracy is to be deplored, it is still nice to get a cheap shot away against the Vics, however fortuitous! :smoking:

Oh, for any pedants waiting to pounce, if they'd intended to indicate the relative latitude of Phillip Island, the correct word is 'southern'.

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#2520 ian senior

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 09:53

Originally posted by kayemod


I wasn't asked of course, but my own answers would be "none, and not likely to".


Such is my ignorance, when I first heard of this series, I envisaged cars racing up the Great North Road.

#2521 sterling49

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 10:17

Originally posted by ian senior


Such is my ignorance, when I first heard of this series, I envisaged cars racing up the Great North Road.


:lol: That means I could possibly get a spot on that great old Roman Road......the A2 to obtain a superb view, however long and straight......thinks...."What did the Romans ever do for us?" :wave:

#2522 PS30-SB

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 10:27

Originally posted by Barry Boor
On the subject of the ladder of progression, perfectly sound reasoning but in the days when there was that 'ladder' the racing firmament was very small.

You had NO serious racing in Asia..........


I'm wondering when "...the days...." you mention were? And when you write "...serious...", I'm wondering whether the point here is that you didn't take it seriously........ ?




Back on topic: I still buy Motor Sport regularly. Makes me feel slightly philanthropic.

#2523 Jim Thurman

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 19:08

I concur completely, silly, contrived racing, racing groomed for television...

"knockout" qualifying, requiring different tire compounds to be used during a race...oh, wait, you were talking about A1GP ;)

#2524 Stephen W

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 07:08

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
I concur completely, silly, contrived racing, racing groomed for television...

"knockout" qualifying, requiring different tire compounds to be used during a race...oh, wait, you were talking about A1GP ;)


Have to agree, any championship where there are mandatory pit stops really is SILLY.

:wave:

#2525 fines

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 08:16

Originally posted by Stephen W
Have to agree, any championship where there are mandatory pit stops really is SILLY.

So that leaves us with... drag racing?;)

Hey, wait a min, I've got an idea! :D Why don't they introduce pit stops to the quarter-miles, giving them an opportunity for commercials to be inserted - after all, a three-second-nought run isn't much of a spectacle, is it? If it catches you out yawning at the wrong moment, you are going to miss it in its entirety... :lol:

#2526 GD66

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 09:28

Believe me buddy, if you're ever privy to a pass from a Top Fuel dragster, there's no yawning.... :eek:

#2527 fines

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 09:50

[removes tongue from cheek] Relax, man, I was only jesting/taking the p...

#2528 Stephen W

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 09:52

Originally posted by fines

So that leaves us with... drag racing?;)

Hey, wait a min, I've got an idea! :D Why don't they introduce pit stops to the quarter-miles, giving them an opportunity for commercials to be inserted - after all, a three-second-nought run isn't much of a spectacle, is it? If it catches you out yawning at the wrong moment, you are going to miss it in its entirety... :lol:


Nice try Fines but you forgot most of British Club Racing, Super Karts, Hillclimbs, Sprints, etc etc etc.

Unless of course you were joking! :confused:

I suppose in all seriousness some of the rules that were introduced to reduce fuel tank capacities were aimed at safety. However there are championships where you have to make a mandatory pit stop. To me these always seem artificial and aimed at the TV audience rather than the casual spectator at the event who in most cases won't have a clue what is going on!

It is about time we got back to a form of racing where the driver is paramount in achieving victory, where there are no pit stops unless you have a problem and we do not limit the number of cars that can register or enter a race.

:wave:

#2529 GD66

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:00

Originally posted by fines
[removes tongue from cheek] Relax, man, I was only jesting/taking the p...


I realise that, Michael. But suggesting a pitstop seems unrealistic. Now, adding a HAIRPIN might spice it up a bit...;)

#2530 Stephen W

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 11:04

Originally posted by GD66


I realise that, Michael. But suggesting a pitstop seems unrealistic. Now, adding a HAIRPIN might spice it up a bit...;)


I wouldn't want to be stood at the start line if they did!!!! :eek:

#2531 fines

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:58

So we're agreed something's oughta be done, then?;)

Seriously, my original comment was mostly taking the p... out of today's TV audiences, who seem incapable of focussing on one thing for more than thirty seconds (the 'standard' length of a commercial!), and the resultant hectic of sports administrations to make their sport more "TV friendly", i.e. appealing to the couch potatoes who have to endure some stupid "programme" between commercials ("Say, what are we supposed to buy from this, they don't even mention a brand name" - "Relax, that's just the news - it'll be over in a jiffy").

And don't hold your breath until we get real racing back - this is only going to get worse!

#2532 Tom Glowacki

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 01:06

Originally posted by GD66


I realise that, Michael. But suggesting a pitstop seems unrealistic. Now, adding a HAIRPIN might spice it up a bit...;)


Think of the advances in handbrake technology that would result!

#2533 alansart

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 09:36

Motorsport are putting their complete back catalogue on CD.

Single decades for £39.99 each and single years for £14.99.

Sounds good value to me and a pretty good archive.

#2534 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 10:07

Also saves shelf space!

#2535 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 11:16

Originally posted by alansart
Motorsport are putting their complete back catalogue on CD.


Of those currently available, at the moment I am really only interested in the 1950s discs, since I have from 1958 onward, with the exception of a few issues from the Eighties and later which I am not all that interested in replacing. However, as mentioned, the space savings is a serious consideration for looking at all of them.

As an aside, I sent an email to the editorial folks asking when they were going to finally correct the error of their ways and admit that the Tripoli article in the January 2000 issue was a pack of falsehoods and lies and simply the usual rehashing of the Neubauer tale. This is all the worse because of the discussion on the race in late-1969 in the magazine which the author was clearly unaware of when he slapped together the article.

The delivery of the issues here in the States continues to run well behind that of Euroland and even that of EWA when they had the distribution rights.

It is still uneven and feast or famine at times, but far better than it was, which might not be saying much, but at least they seem to be trying. I really don't care for the increased space devoted to contemporary stuff, and it seems that a little Roebuck pontificating on the current f1 world goes a very long way. I find myself skimming over it rather than reading it.

#2536 Allan Lupton

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:20

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


Of those currently available, at the moment I am really only interested in the 1950s discs, since I have from 1958 onward, with the exception of a few issues from the Eighties and later which I am not all that interested in replacing. However, as mentioned, the space savings is a serious consideration for looking at all of them.

I really don't care for the increased space devoted to contemporary stuff, and it seems that a little Roebuck pontificating on the current f1 world goes a very long way. I find myself skimming over it rather than reading it.


The problem with Motor Sport as a contemporary record has always been the lack of a useful index. A searchable CD should rectify that, but it's rather an expensive way of getting an index to volumes one already has.

The other thing is that we can't really have it both ways. I use 30-50 year old copies of MS as a contemporary source on motor sport and I expect in 50-60 year's time my equivalent won't be able to.
We already have that with Autocar: for decades The Motor and The Autocar reported new models in great detail, including a lot of tecnical data that we can now use as a reference. For years now Autocar has been "Clarksonised" of technical content so, again, what'll serious researchers of the cars of the late 20th/early 21st century get facts from?
Oh, and the car manufacturers' brochures are just as useless: even my Subaru (a make bought for its technical content if ever there was one, I'd say) is sold using a brochure that doesn't even tell the front/rear drive split, nor whether any/all the differentials have any limited-slip/viscous coupling/computer-control.

#2537 Gary Davies

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:51

And while we're having a crack at Motor Sport, I wonder why they seem unable to obtain a recent photograph of one of their contributors. The one they're using seems to be, oh, about 30 years old!

Posted Image;)

#2538 alansart

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:52

Originally posted by Allan Lupton


The problem with Motor Sport as a contemporary record has always been the lack of a useful index. A searchable CD should rectify that, but it's rather an expensive way of getting an index to volumes one already has.

The other thing is that we can't really have it both ways. I use 30-50 year old copies of MS as a contemporary source on motor sport and I expect in 50-60 year's time my equivalent won't be able to.
We already have that with Autocar: for decades The Motor and The Autocar reported new models in great detail, including a lot of tecnical data that we can now use as a reference. For years now Autocar has been "Clarksonised" of technical content so, again, what'll serious researchers of the cars of the late 20th/early 21st century get facts from?
Oh, and the car manufacturers' brochures are just as useless: even my Subaru (a make bought for its technical content if ever there was one, I'd say) is sold using a brochure that doesn't even tell the front/rear drive split, nor whether any/all the differentials have any limited-slip/viscous coupling/computer-control.


I can see that for those that have nearly all the old copies it's an expense for just an Index. Unfortunately I was/am encouraged by my other half not to keep piles of old racing magazines, so have very few left. The 60's, 70's and possibly 80's CD's are certainly on my wanted list!

The Clarkson factor, unfortunately is part of modern life. Stuff the engineering, let's just see how sideways we can get it. It's the same as the manufacturers brochures. There's a bit of interesting engineering - but see the beautiful interior, climate control, all these buttons and look how far our Jeremy can get it sideways :(

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


and it seems that a little Roebuck pontificating on the current f1 world goes a very long way. I find myself skimming over it rather than reading it.


I'm not too bothered about that. When I first picked Motor Sport up in the late 60's it was DSJ's F1 reports and the photography that held my interest. Roebuck isn't popular with every one, but I find him ok. The magazine has increased in size so there's room for a bit of modern stuff. Bringing in the likes of Doug Nye is certainly an improvement as well.

#2539 fines

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 17:39

Originally posted by Allan Lupton
We already have that with Autocar: for decades The Motor and The Autocar reported new models in great detail, including a lot of tecnical data that we can now use as a reference. For years now Autocar has been "Clarksonised" of technical content so, again, what'll serious researchers of the cars of the late 20th/early 21st century get facts from?

Wikipedia, of course!!??? :rolleyes:

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#2540 flat-16

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 18:25

As I think I remarked before, kudos must go to MS's directors for actually paying attention to the opinions of their core readership. As I also remarked: whether you care for modern F1 or not, without its coverage, MS was 'cut off at the root'. I happen to think that Roebuck has a pretty good handle on the megalomaniacal tendencies of those who govern F1 – the more people who see this farce for what it is, the better IMO. I suspect it will take quite a bit of time for news of MS's direction change to really have an effect in terms of opening up the magazine’s readership appeal.

I particularly enjoyed DCN’s all-too-brief article on the progress of “Halford” in the Coupe des Alpes – someone should’ve given him a replacement smoke kit!

A minor niggle, but the articles on soulless SUVs and the like bore me stiff, and I can't quite figure out what they're doing in the magazine – but you can’t have it all I guess…


Justin

#2541 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 18:33

Has MS ever done something on the Sheldons -- Paul and Betty -- and the other stalwarts of the Formula One Register? Just curious since it would be nice if Betty Sheldon bent the ear of those at MS on the 1933 Tripoli affair -- I give her credit for being the person, at least in English, to finally sort out the real story for that event.

#2542 Rob Ryder

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 18:34

Originally posted by alansart
Motorsport are putting their complete back catalogue on CD.

Single decades for £39.99 each and single years for £14.99.

Sounds good value to me and a pretty good archive.

Any idea when they will be released and where they can be purchased?

#2543 alansart

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 18:41

Originally posted by Rob Ryder

Any idea when they will be released and where they can be purchased?


Available now, just go on their website.

#2544 kayemod

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 18:43

Originally posted by alansart


Available now, just go on their website.


....where it says, "dispatched next month".

#2545 Kpy

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 18:49

Originally posted by kayemod


....where it says, "dispatched next month".


.......................... and "Enquiries: phone +44 (0)20 7349 3150".

#2546 bigears

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 20:59

I have purchased the 1970s archive.

They said that it will be dispatched at the beginning of June and my order will be paid for once it has been dispatched.

I am looking forward to it as I want to see the German Grand Prix race reports and for any information about the proposed Birmingham road race as well. In the future, I will purchase the 1980s.

#2547 RA Historian

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 00:17

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
The delivery of the issues here in the States continues to run well behind that of Euroland and even that of EWA when they had the distribution rights.

It is still uneven and feast or famine at times,

True. The April issue came the middle of April, while the May issue arrived April 29!

#2548 john aston

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:49

New issue great - Amon interview superb.But pleeease - no bloody lifestyle pages- I do not want a watch that costs more than my car.And no motor bikes - I know many people like cars and bikes - but some don't and I am one of them. I would even rather read the truth about the Tripoli GP.

#2549 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:34

Originally posted by Vanwall
And while we're having a crack at Motor Sport, I wonder why they seem unable to obtain a recent photograph of one of their contributors. The one they're using seems to be, oh, about 30 years old!

Posted Image;)


One should be portraied as one feels.

#2550 kayemod

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:53

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos


One should be portraied as one feels.


On that basis, Doug clearly feels like a 30 year old, but I don't suppose he'll get one.