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'Motor Sport' magazine


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#251 KJJ

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 20:50

mmmh........I was thinking that perhaps by produced Eric Dymock meant drivers whose early careers were based in Scotland. Anyway I won't argue as the next you know he'll be posting here.

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#252 Ian Stewart

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 23:06

Originally posted by KJJ
Having never seen the fellow drive I'm certainly not in a position to disagree with Eric Dymock's comment



Charming post KJJ, but if it's any comfort to you "the fellow" wouldn't disagree with your viewpoint!

:rotfl:

#253 Twin Window

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 23:49

Originally posted by KJJ

....the next you know he'll be posting here.

Spooky! :eek:

:lol:

#254 D-Type

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 00:24

On another thread, Ray Bell said

And, just to let the newcomers know, the worst example of Motor Sport's negligence is that they never looked up their own expose of the story of the Tripoli GP scandal before publishing the fictitious story as fact.

For once I agree with him. Motor Sport have a fantastic archive of their own articles and access to the LAT Photographic picture archive but they just won't capitalise on it. They let the '3-years out of the College of Knowledge' brigade rule the roost.

Motor Sport lost their way some years ago. They re-invented themselves, but with so little awareness of their core readership that they did it mid-year rather than in January. As they also changed the page size they stopped anybody who collects them in their tracks. I feel they are run by those who are interested in magazine publishing, no matter whether it is the proverbial "Pig Breeders' Quarterly" or "Hello!", rather than being Motor Sport enthusiasts. Just look at the number of names on the masthead - who runs the shop, or who cares?

How can a magazine expect itself to be taken seriously (assuming they do, of course) when the editor can't be bothered to shave before having his mugshot taken!

To get back on thread, the red cover doesn't bother me but I feel the decision was made by someone who has never actually looked at a news stand as it stands out less than it used to. The content is still too shallow for my taste, but there is no alternative on offer. Trying to compare a modern car with a car twenty+ years older doesn't say anything other than that "technology has advanced since - - - -" . As I don't yet see a viable alternative, although the better end of Octane is improving, I will not yet be cancelling my subscription.

#255 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 07:22

I really do think that the "media" is now infested by those whose main font of knowledge and inspiration is the media itself. The subject matter of what they are covering is of no real importance. This is especially true of TV and radio. You only have look at the background of most current TV presenters to see that their route to TV was through college/university/drama school studying media /drama related subjects, straight into local TV/radio and then on into national TV/radio.
This is very different from the CV's of presenters in earlier eras. They usually had had other careers before finding themselves in front of TV cameras or a microphone. I suppose this was because the "electronic media" was realtively new and they had to look outside the "industry" to find personnel. Now the media industry is mature and it has its own defined career paths.

I think this is a real pity as up to the 80s many TV presenters were genuine enthusiasts (some might say slightly eccentric!) and really embued their presentations with this enthusiasm. For many today, it's just another job.

#256 Cirrus

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 19:28

I've just received my December issue, and I've only had time to read one article - Ian Flux's test of the Hill GH2. One of the best articles I've read in Motor Sport for some time - the personal aspect of it was very touching and honest.

#257 Mallory Dan

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 10:52

I reckon there must be a good book, or at least a long article in Fluxie himself. I never met him but he always seemed to me a good bloke, very enthsiastic, drove many and varied cars, worked with/for some interesting characters, and pretty quick on track too.

Is the old boy worth a Thread himself, funnily enough I was thinking about starting one, while dog-walking the Ehrlich F At cars came to mind for some reason !!!

#258 David McKinney

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 12:26

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
I reckon there must be a good book, or at least a long article in Fluxie himself. I never met him but he always seemed to me a good bloke, very enthsiastic, drove many and varied cars, worked with/for some interesting characters, and pretty quick on track too.

Is the old boy worth a Thread himself, funnily enough I was thinking about starting one, while dog-walking the Ehrlich F At cars came to mind for some reason !!!


Try it and see :cool:

#259 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 13:26

Fluxie is a really great bloke. A good friend and so quick in so many different cars/formulae.

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#260 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 13:59

Does anyone know if Motorsport will send along a video cassette again??

#261 PRD

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 20:42

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Fluxie is a really great bloke. A good friend and so quick in so many different cars/formulae.


My son , Mark is writing the reports on the EERC Britsport races for dailysportscar.com. He 's still at University and is new at interviewing drivers for comments after races. He couldn't praise Ian Flux highly enough - said he was really nice, very helpful and nothing was too much trouble. :up:


A lot better than some miserable b*****ds he could name.

Paul

#262 MCS

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 20:57

Just been reading through the latest issue.

Am I alone in thinking the front cover is obscene?

The Hill article is interesting, but seriously question it's accuracy in terms of the GH2's competitiveness. The team returned from Paul Ricard early let's not forget.

But still, very pleased to see that Richard Heseltine has found himself a place on the staff...

Enough.

Mark

#263 Darren Galpin

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 09:25

Can anyone explain to me what Mr Fearnley is on about in his editorial when he says "Let's just hope he has a ball. For such events are the antidote to F1 in 1994 and its ilk." Surely a typo? I can't otherwise see what he is referring to given the events of that year.

#264 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 09:30

Whatever else about 1994, the season was certainly full of passion and tension - which is a lot more than can be said about a few recent seasons.

I too wasn't impressed with the choice of front cover photo this month - although the picture has appeared so many times before that it has lost a lot of its shock value by now.

#265 Pat Clarke

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 10:08

Quote MSC .........."Am I alone in thinking the front cover is obscene?"

Mark, I agree with you. I emailed them immediately on looking at my copy. A nice email telling them how disappointed I was. Not threatening to cancel my sub etc, and asking them if they thought the rusty red colour would sell more copies.
Mmmmm, checking my inbox, I see I haven't seen a response. Doubt I will. That would show at least a passing interest in their customers.
Pat

#266 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 10:26

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Fluxie is a really great bloke. A good friend and so quick in so many different cars/formulae.

A certain Mr Flux [I recall] did cause a severe disturbance at the Ramada Inn CHC NZ after a Wigram Formula Pacific race years ago. 1984? A cige lighter to the sprinkler system did cause some grief - but the magistrate let our Ian free because the the defence put forward that Flux was not aware that his actions would set off the whole water sprinkler system and drown the entire hotel!
Case from memory was dismissed.
Visiting drivers got away with a lot in those days, but my own and our guests drinks were watered down to levels unheard of, that is pre Flux!

#267 Twin Window

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 10:44

I had lunch with the joint Chairman of Haymarket last week and, amongst other things, raised the subject of Motor Sport with him.

Interestingly, he agreed with me that it was unfortunate that Paul hadn't responded on the other thread but explained that this was mainly due to personal (and completely understandable) circumstances which affected him during that period.

He also agreed with me regarding the layout and usage of photos in certain areas of the mag. According to Simon, the figures have been "good" and "as expected" for the re-launch issue, and subs are up...

When I have time, I'll give Punter a ring and see if he's willing to make a comment on here.

(Oh, and Fluxie is most definately a good bloke and a very talented driver. I had some great times with him back in the '80s... :up: )

#268 Mark Bennett

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 13:07

On a related (Haymarket) theme...

This weeks Autosport seems to have accidentally used a DTP template last used by them back in the 80's.

Much better! Cleaner pages, nicer presented photos, readable text :eek:

Things might be looking up... :clap:

#269 Twin Window

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 13:44

Originally posted by MCS

But still, very pleased to see that Richard Heseltine has found himself a place on the staff...

I thought I'd corrected this misconception before, but it appears not. Richard is not related to Michael, and has recently moved over to Motor Sport after five years on Classic & Sportscar. He's a highly regarded journalist and probably sick to death of the constant supposition that he's a sibling of one the group's founders...

Meanwhile, I've just had a very pleasant and informative hour long chat with the Publisher, Stuart Forrest. Above all else, he would like to stress to everyone here at TNF - posters and lurkers alike - that the staff of MS actually do read everything on this thread, and give careful consideration to all balanced and constructive criticism and opinion.

Paul Fearnley is out of the office for a few days, which would explain why you haven't had your reply yet, Pat, as I'm assured that he personally replies to each and every email and letter he receives. Hopefully he will also come here and post, but if not another (senior) representative of the title may do so instead.

#270 Shockabuku

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 14:05

Originally posted by Mark Bennett
On a related (Haymarket) theme...

This weeks Autosport seems to have accidentally used a DTP template last used by them back in the 80's.

Much better! Cleaner pages, nicer presented photos, readable text :eek:

Things might be looking up... :clap:


I agree - it looks a definite improvement.

In my opinion it seems to be a bit of an odd choice to move the race fixtures and TV listings to the middle of the magazine when we're going into the winter period with less races and fewer programmes.

Autosport seems to go through phases whereby it gets a bright, bold and brash (and fairly garish to the eye) revamp, and then bit by bit the layout gradually reverts to a more legible format.

#271 MCS

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 16:40

Originally posted by Twin Window
I thought I'd corrected this misconception before, but it appears not. Richard is not related to Michael, and has recently moved over to Motor Sport after five years on Classic & Sportscar. He's a highly regarded journalist and probably sick to death of the constant supposition that he's a sibling of one the group's founders...

Meanwhile, I've just had a very pleasant and informative hour long chat with the Publisher, Stuart Forrest. Above all else, he would like to stress to everyone here at TNF - posters and lurkers alike - that the staff of MS actually do read everything on this thread, and give careful consideration to all balanced and constructive criticism and opinion.

Paul Fearnley is out of the office for a few days, which would explain why you haven't had your reply yet, Pat, as I'm assured that he personally replies to each and every email and letter he receives. Hopefully he will also come here and post, but if not another (senior) representative of the title may do so instead.


I know he's not related, Twinny :lol:

And I'm PLEASED :up: he's joined!

Perhaps I should have worded it differently...

Mark

#272 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 22:08

I just happened to pick up Autosport today in a motorway service station. I thought the layout and content were absolutely the worst I have ever seen in a magazine.

A complete and total shambles.....

I wouldn't buy it nowadays if you gave it me for nothing.  ;)

#273 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 23:10

Originally posted by Twin Window
.....Meanwhile, I've just had a very pleasant and informative hour long chat with the Publisher, Stuart Forrest. Above all else, he would like to stress to everyone here at TNF - posters and lurkers alike - that the staff of MS actually do read everything on this thread, and give careful consideration to all balanced and constructive criticism and opinion.

Paul Fearnley is out of the office for a few days, which would explain why you haven't had your reply yet, Pat, as I'm assured that he personally replies to each and every email and letter he receives. Hopefully he will also come here and post, but if not another (senior) representative of the title may do so instead.


That being the case, this post might jog them about answering my e.mail sent after they made a bit of a muckup of their Tasman article about six years ago...

And they might also comment one sending me some royalties for pinching my intellectual property rights well displayed in my Closed Circuit articles and poorly represented in their Track Tests.

raybell@ramojan.com will get me... if they're fair dinkum.

#274 Twin Window

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 23:15

I will personally bring that to ther attention, Ray.

In fairness, the current Editor, Publisher - and probably the majority of staff - are now different (eg I was the Picture Editor in 1998/9) but I'm certain that they'll address the matter.

(Edit: have done)

#275 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 23:48

I'd like to think so, I put a lot of effort into that e.mail...

But I think Paul Fearnley was there at the time. And seeing the Closed Circuit style degenerate into an excuse to borrow a BMW has been somewhat aggravating.

Not to mention the lack of some quite important information in the stories.

#276 Mark Bennett

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 12:53

Ray,

Are these Closed Circuit articles on a website somewhere?
(I've tried a search here but nothing jumps out as being them explicitly)

I spend most holidays driving old circuits, or sites of same. So far it's been finding them and the history from my own research and (ahem) Motorsport articles and suchlike. It would be fascinating to see another enthusiasts input.

Mark

#277 KarlOakie Research

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 15:04

Originally posted by Twin Window
Meanwhile, I've just had a very pleasant and informative hour long chat with the Publisher, Stuart Forrest. Above all else, he would like to stress to everyone here at TNF - posters and lurkers alike - that the staff of MS actually do read everything on this thread, and give careful consideration to all balanced and constructive criticism and opinion.


Of course, what is "balanced" and "constructive" to them may differ greatly from what others may consider those terms to be. Generally, I have seen little that would lead me to believe that Motor Sport is paying much attention to any criticism directed towards it, even that which might be considered "balance" and/or "constructive." Even given that a magazine is much like an oil tanker and cannot turn on a dime and must make take time to change direction to match its azimuth, it would appear that Motor Sport is marching to the beat of the Haymarket corporate drummer and not necessarily the beat of the customer. Then again, perhaps I am not really a customer that they care about much any more.

Sadly, it is almost unsporting to even consider criticizing Motor Sport or its goofy younger companion, Autosport. Like Barry, reading a recent issue of the latter was enough to ensure that as bad it was when I dropped it nearly seven years ago, it is infinitely worse today; and worse yet, it is boring and a graphic nightmare.

It is a telling sign that I don't bother to even re-read any of the recent issues of Motor Sport. I glance at them, perhaps skim an article or two, and it gets put on the shelf and there it stays. True, there are a few moments each year where there is a momentary flash of satisfaction with something I see there, but, otherwise, it is yawning at the same ol' shit presented in the same shitty strings of words that pass for prose.

A final comment: I cannot imagine why a superb historian such as Hans Etzrodt is completely ignored by Motor Sport? The complete lack of interest in his 1939 story still amazes me or the lack of any interest in his 1925 championship story. One would think that these would be exactly the sort of thing that the magazine would jump at to have within its covers. And one has to wonder why the magazine has not made an attempt to recruit from the very knowledgeable and skilled writers found here and elsewhere. Even just a quick look at 8W shows just how barren Motor Sport is compared to what it could and should be. Perhaps not the "balanced" and "constructive" criticism that Twinny's chums are looking for, but whenever the copies stop arriving in the mail I will probably not miss them, although I am probably dumb enough to keep hoping that some day, some day soon, Motor Sport will find the azimuth it wobbled away from and once back on the path, level the bubbles and produce a magazine worth looking forward to each month. This is not the case at the present time.

#278 maxpapis

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 15:16

Originally posted by KarlOakie Research
Of course, what is "balanced" and "constructive" to them may differ greatly from what others may consider those terms to be. Generally, I have seen little that would lead me to believe that Motor Sport is paying much attention to any criticism directed towards it, even that which might be considered "balance" and/or "constructive." Even given that a magazine is much like an oil tanker and cannot turn on a dime and must make take time to change direction to match its azimuth, it would appear that Motor Sport is marching to the beat of the Haymarket corporate drummer and not necessarily the beat of the customer. Then again, perhaps I am not really a customer that they care about much any more.

Sadly, it is almost unsporting to even consider criticizing Motor Sport or its goofy younger companion, Autosport. Like Barry, reading a recent issue of the latter was enough to ensure that as bad it was when I dropped it nearly seven years ago, it is infinitely worse today; and worse yet, it is boring and a graphic nightmare.

It is a telling sign that I don't bother to even re-read any of the recent issues of Motor Sport. I glance at them, perhaps skim an article or two, and it gets put on the shelf and there it stays. True, there are a few moments each year where there is a momentary flash of satisfaction with something I see there, but, otherwise, it is yawning at the same ol' shit presented in the same shitty strings of words that pass for prose.

A final comment: I cannot imagine why a superb historian such as Hans Etzrodt is completely ignored by Motor Sport? The complete lack of interest in his 1939 story still amazes me or the lack of any interest in his 1925 championship story. One would think that these would be exactly the sort of thing that the magazine would jump at to have within its covers. And one has to wonder why the magazine has not made an attempt to recruit from the very knowledgeable and skilled writers found here and elsewhere. Even just a quick look at 8W shows just how barren Motor Sport is compared to what it could and should be. Perhaps not the "balanced" and "constructive" criticism that Twinny's chums are looking for, but whenever the copies stop arriving in the mail I will probably not miss them, although I am probably dumb enough to keep hoping that some day, some day soon, Motor Sport will find the azimuth it wobbled away from and once back on the path, level the bubbles and produce a magazine worth looking forward to each month. This is not the case at the present time.

and I thought Don Capps had jumped ship. :wave:

#279 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 17:46

Originally posted by Mark Bennett
Are these Closed Circuit articles on a website somewhere?
(I've tried a search here but nothing jumps out as being them explicitly)

I spend most holidays driving old circuits, or sites of same. So far it's been finding them and the history from my own research and (ahem) Motorsport articles and suchlike. It would be fascinating to see another enthusiasts input.


www.tasman-series.com carries a few... Longford, Warwick Farm and Surfers Paradise.

The Lobethal article has been posted on this forum...

http://forums.atlasf...=&postid=153038

I used to spend a lot of time driving to, driving round, simply finding old circuits... nobody else has yet told me I'm wrong when I say I'm the only person to have seen every circuit on which the Australian GP has been held.

Best of all, I was fortunate enough to be born before they stopped racing at all these good places...

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#280 Twin Window

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 18:33

Originally posted by KarlOakie Research

...it would appear that Motor Sport is marching to the beat of the Haymarket corporate drummer and not necessarily the beat of the customer. Then again, perhaps I am not really a customer that they care about much any more.

Don

Without putting words into their mouths, surely they have to strive to attract new readers simply in order for the title to survive. And I think it's fair to assume that ideally they'd like to do this without losing any of their current readership. Howerver this, almost by definition, means change - and change isn't something that a some folk appreciate. But surely it's better than no Motor Sport at all...

[Autosport] ...is infinitely worse today; and worse yet, it is boring and a graphic nightmare.

Agreed.

#281 KarlOakie Research

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 21:09

But surely it's better than no Motor Sport at all...


Stu,

Once upon a time I really and truly thought that. However, the struggle for an identity and a market has become such that I now find myself really questioning that thought.

At the present, it is a bit of a puzzle as to exactly what Motor Sport is, much less what it wants to be. It is backtracking on what it aimed to be five years ago when it made the "switch" and the newest shift -- The Red Cover -- seems to infer a bit of the muddle you find yourself in whenever you are seeking to both increase circulation by finding new corps of readers and yet retain an apparently (rapidly) dwindling core group. This is one of those deals that ranks right there with resolving the Iraqi mess as "an opportunity to excel." I am not without sympathy for the situation these folks are in.

By trying to be more than it is capable of being to more groups than it is capable of pleasing, Motor Sport really just keeps postponing the inevitable, in my opinion. I do not think it has another five years left in it, probably closer to two or maybe three. This is not a reflection of the good people trying to produce the best product they know how to produce, sometimes your best simply is not enough for reasons having not a thing to do with your "goodness" or the lack thereof.

Forrest & Fearnley may simply have to say something along the line of, "**** the Don Capps' of the world, we're going to make this the format and bet the farm on it. We think we will make up the losses of the Don's in our readership base by pulling in a few more from another sector of the marketplace. We also think that that this new reader base will be better for the future. Time for the old farts to just deal with reality. Ta!"

Or, they go the other direction and reconsider the problems of being a mediocre monthly and contemplate being a much better bimonthly, especially if it can strive to make each issue a true "collector's item -- groan! but this is not an inaccurate way of thinking about it -- by having an in-depth historical article as the centerpiece for each issue supported by similar stories. Go for broke, but consider the 8W model as a way to up the ante. Believe me, there are quite a few excellent writer/historians around who would be only too happy to produce something for Motor Sport that is far beyond the capability of the current in-house staff and other Haymarket retainers. And, ditch the third grade reading level, 1000 to 1200 word articles hidden amongst the overwhelming graphics.

Hey, easy for me to say all this since I don't have to make the payroll. However, I think that I am simply one of many whose love of Motor Sport is scarcely a fraction of what it was even a decade or so ago, which should be a clear message that many of us will not so much walk away, but simply drift away.

RIP Motor Sport?

#282 Vitesse2

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 22:02

Originally posted by Cirrus
I've just received my December issue, and I've only had time to read one article - Ian Flux's test of the Hill GH2. One of the best articles I've read in Motor Sport for some time - the personal aspect of it was very touching and honest.

Yes, I enjoyed that one too. A very touching article. Interesting to learn that NGH was going to run Fluxie in a F3 "junior team" - I'd never heard that before.

I wish I still had my Embassy Racing jacket too: although like Fluxie's, I suspect mine wouldn't fit any more ..... :

WB on Seaman and Ramponi is good value too.

#283 ensign14

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 23:06

Current issue has yet another letter complaining that the red cover does not make MS stand out, but blend into the motoring magazines. I get the feeling that someone somewhere wants green back, but cannot say so too openly...

I blame Michael Heseltine and his cursed Europhilia. Cannot have Johnny Foreigner offended by a bit of the ol' British Racing Green. :smoking:

#284 Vitesse2

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 23:43

Incidentally, funny how Fluxie's fantasy about him winning the World Championship in the GH4 bears a passing resemblance to this.

#285 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 09:18

During the five years, or so, that I have been subscribing to Motor Sport, I have never yet had to renew my subscription. It has always carried on automatically. I have still not received my December issue, (although I did see that horrendous cover at Aintree yesterday - what ARE they thinking?) and so I am wondering if the changes that brought forth the new 'image' also included the requirement to tell them that I still want to take it.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I think I might just let it slide....

#286 Roger Clark

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 11:12

In the Olden Days, when MOTOR SPORT wrote about an old racing car, the article was mainly about the history of the car with a few paragraphs at the end of drivers' or passengers' impressons. Nowadays it seems that the priorities are completely revesred and the articles are largely track tests with a little history. I appreciate that this is easier for the writer who gets to drive the car and doesn't have to do so much research, but I much prefer the old way. Do other TNF members feel the same?

This isn't intended as a cricism of Ian Flux's Hill article which is realy very good.

#287 Tim Murray

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 16:23

I always used to pick up my copy at Sainsbury (major UK supermarket chain) when I went shopping. I don't know if it's just coincidence, but since it 'went red' they appear to have stopped stocking it.

#288 hhh

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 20:36

If The Editor and Staff of MS really read these pages:
"PLEASE give us back the green cover!!!!"
With all the magazines I get and buy, the only issues I could always find were those of MotorSport.
Now it just looks like any of the others.

If you want to stand out: Go Green again .

And do keep lost of articles about history, historic racing and not too many advertisements please. (even though I guess you need them....)

#289 Gary C

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 21:10

I haven't posted on this thread before. I've been taking Motor Sport for about the last ten yeaqrs. I received the latest issue on Thursday & have now looked through the whole thing. I think it's probably the weakest issue I have ever seen. And yes, I DO have a subscription.

#290 D-Type

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 22:27

I enjoyed the article on what speeds modern cars might do around Brooklands especially the explanation of Michael Andretti running around the bottom. The idea of making Indycars turn right has a certain appeal.

I somehow feel that they didn't let WB see the proofs or discuss it with him and the first he sees of the magazine is when it drops through the letterbox.

The cover - height of bad taste is being polite, total lack of any sensitivity is more like it.

Iagree with you Roger, I like the 'historic racing' thype of article combining a tracktestwith a history of the car or model. But the history has to be researched and that's far less fun than driving round a circuit or up hillclimb.

But is there an alternative? Not yet, but Octane looks more and more tempting.

#291 MCS

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 22:42

Unless I'm badly mistaken, I don't believe WB has been in any way involved with the production of the magazine since the sixties...

The comments regarding the "Track Tests" are, I'm sure, absolutely correct. I'm really not interested in what the current editorial staff think of the racing cars they're driving - much better to get an expert view. Maybe they're getting the message though - witness the Hill GH2 article and the excellent Roush piece...

Keep seeing the word "Octane" though - must investigate further!!!

Mark

#292 ensign14

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 22:59

Originally posted by Roger Clark
I appreciate that this is easier for the writer who gets to drive the car and doesn't have to do so much research, but I much prefer the old way. Do other TNF members feel the same?

Not really...on the basis that you can find out about the history anywhere, but not what it feels to drive something.

#293 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 23:01

Originally posted by Tim Murray
I always used to pick up my copy at Sainsbury (major UK supermarket chain) when I went shopping. I don't know if it's just coincidence, but since it 'went red' they appear to have stopped stocking it.

Presumably Haymarket refused to stump up whatever exhorbitant amount Sainsbury want for the privilege of having the magazine displayed on their shelves, possibly on the grounds that Sainsbury didn't actually sell enough copies nationally to make it worth either company's while. Tough world at the moment for magazine publishers .... :rolleyes:

#294 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 23:01

Originally posted by MCS
.....The comments regarding the "Track Tests" are, I'm sure, absolutely correct. I'm really not interested in what the current editorial staff think of the racing cars they're driving - much better to get an expert view.....


Like Phil Hill's testing of cars for the old Salon articles in Road & Track?

Do you think, by the way, they convey a great deal about these cars anyway? Or are they just saying what it does to them to drive them?

And with regard to the Track Test articles I mentioned before... are we really interested in knowing about their jaunts in road test cars and are the makers happy to see what might have been a proper road test watered down by a story about some old race track?

By the way, I should be picking up my first 'red 'n' today...

#295 Roger Clark

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 00:11

Originally posted by Ray Bell



Do you think, by the way, they convey a great deal about these cars anyway? Or are they just saying what it does to them to drive them?

Exactly

#296 MCS

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 09:12

Originally posted by Ray Bell
By the way, I should be picking up my first 'red 'n' today...


Interesting in seeing your thoughts then, Ray !

Mark

#297 Tim Murray

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 16:00

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Presumably Haymarket refused to stump up whatever exhorbitant amount Sainsbury want for the privilege of having the magazine displayed on their shelves, possibly on the grounds that Sainsbury didn't actually sell enough copies nationally to make it worth either company's while. Tough world at the moment for magazine publishers .... :rolleyes:

This is what worries me. If one major retail outlet stops stocking it, how long before the others follow suit? I doubt that its subscription circulation is enough to keep it viable.

#298 Ruairidh

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 14:43

Originally posted by KarlOakie Research


Forrest & Fearnley may simply have to say something along the line of, "**** the Don Capps' of the world, we're going to make this the format and bet the farm on it. We think we will make up the losses of the Don's in our readership base by pulling in a few more from another sector of the marketplace. We also think that that this new reader base will be better for the future. Time for the old farts to just deal with reality. Ta!"



But don't you think that they have already made that call? I think they believe a lot of the Dons (including the original) had already left the subscriber fold, and they'd left before the change to red. Hence the decision to follow the fashion with a glossy, heavy-on-pictures/light-on-text mag.

I'm a current subscriber. I'm also one of the ones who'd prefer any MS to no MS. The lack of true content bothers me. After two copies of the red cover my conclusion is that there is just too little that is readable.

What I don't get is why they cannot have the best of both worlds - If they'd just add a couple of articles per month - leverage their photo library - and make better use of their archive, then they'd widen their reader base.

As it is, I think MS will cease to exist within a year or so. Unless someone buys it from Haymarket.

#299 petefenelon

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 15:03

Originally posted by Ruairidh


As it is, I think MS will cease to exist within a year or so. Unless someone buys it from Haymarket.


I think it will cease to exist with the more "modern" material being incorporated into F1 Racing and the older material (pre-Senna, probably... sigh) into C&SC. I suspect that the majority of MS readers in the UK at least take one or the other of the above, so the value of advertising in three magazines is considerably reduced....


I also suspect that Autosport will become a gosh-wow flimsy weekly devoted entirely to televised/heavily promoted motorsport - F1, WRC, BTCC - with no pretentions towards being a "journal of record". MN will focus even more tightly on its clubbie roots, Racer will concentrate almost exclusively on the US scene, and those of us interested in racing in the rest of the world will be left high and dry because who's interested in reading about (or advertising next to reports of) events that don't have (A) Jenson Button (B) loads of crashes? :(

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#300 Ruairidh

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 17:09

Originally posted by Ruairidh



But don't you think that they have already made that call? I think they believe a lot of the Dons (including the original) had already left the subscriber fold, and they'd left before the change to red. Hence the decision to follow the fashion with a glossy, heavy-on-pictures/light-on-text mag.


Perhaps a really dumb question, so I apologize in advance if I've gotten this wrong, but is KarlOakie Don's new user name?