Jump to content


Photo

'Motor Sport' magazine


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4174 replies to this topic

#3251 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,600 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 28 January 2010 - 23:00

i dont know about high horse and left exit .but i know when i see a holly cow , obviously i did hit one :lol:

No offence taken and none intended. I did have the grace to admit my bias.
RL


Advertisement

#3252 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 29 January 2010 - 09:57

Hasn't the finest Motor sport jounalist of all time got a rather burn't solar panel............


Much as I like reading Nigel's articles and feel that a lot of what he wrote about in the late 60s & early 70s mirrored my experiences I wouldn't rank him in the Top 10 motor sport journalists of all time!


Is it just me, or is the notion of a list of "the Top 10 motor sport journalists of all time" just as useful as a list of "the Top 10 drivers of all time"?
:rolleyes:


I actually agree with the concept that a list of top 10 journalists would be a fruitless exercise. What I was trying to do, and apparently failing, was to indicate that in my opinion Nigel Roebuck certainly isn't the "finest Motor sport journalist of all time" far from it.

:well:

#3253 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,404 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 29 January 2010 - 11:23

As a writer, Jenks always looked up to Doug.


Oh yeah...except when I was sitting down and he was standing up (as I am confident you meant). Look, as a race reporter I - for one - have never been anywhere near worthy to lick DSJ's boots, nor Pete Lyons's nor Peter Windsor's (the best, most closely engaged and most perceptive duo in my opinion), nor Alan Henry's, Nigel's, Maurice Hamilton's, Andy Marriott's, Rodney Walkerley's, Peter Garnier's, W.F.Bradley's, and several more. DSJ got involved to the heart of the matter, sidecar world champion passenger 1949, major player in the 1955 MM victory...he'd been in there and done it - the rest, with the noble exception of such as Paul Frere or in an American context, maybe, Jerry Titus, just scribbled about what The Men had been achieving. Jose Rosinski and Pierre Dieudonne are up there somewhere, I guess, but not particularly (so far as I know) as race reporters...which is a very different discipline to earning one's living scribbling about racing and racing cars in general - the easier and less-exclusively committed activity.

DCN


#3254 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 January 2010 - 13:54

I always found DSJ's writing to be almost mesmeric. What exacerbated this sense was that he was far from prolific, and thus his "Continental Notes" were devoured with relish, always my first port of call when a new edition of Motor Sport hit the mat. It must be remembered that in the early days, he was often the only English language reporter to attend and report on European races, and as such he was a pioneer. Simon Taylor's tribute to Jenks in the April 1999 (75th anniversary) edition of the magazine is an excellent appreciation of the man.
My issue with Nigel Roebuck is that he is rather like a Chinese meal; I look forward to eating it and enjoy doing so, but it leaves me somewhat unfulfilled and an hour later I'm hungry again. You can't fault the chap's enthusiasm and he seems to do his research, but IMHO he's not that accomplished a wordsmith. Having said that, he's acknowledged as one of the top dogs in what has always been a very specialised field, and my fear is that the field is increasingly shrinking with the requirements of the current day reader............. :well:


#3255 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 15:00

im not convinced at all that the career as driver is very important Rosinski actually won the french f3 championship in the early sixties , but as you all knows it didnt mean much then . dieudonné did a small carreer in the 70s but its beside the point . Rosinski was the redacteur en chef / editor (which is not exactly the same thing )of Champion and later the co-editor of Sport-auto and editor of L'année Automobile /automobile year .the reference then , but all that is not important, its is the writing style ,humor and good judgment who made a great journalist but mostly the way his writing age well . all that to say that i agree that is pointless to keep a score whos first second and to do a top ten , but what i say is that as usual in the anglo-saxon ghetto they forget that theres a world outside , there was plenty of great journalist all over europe .

Edited by philippe charuest, 29 January 2010 - 15:11.


#3256 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 January 2010 - 15:11

but what i say is that as usual in the anglo-saxon ghetto they forget that theres a world outside , there was plenty of great journalist all over europe .


Logically you must be right Philippe, but none with any profile that I am aware of unlike our hierarchy of reporters/writers who are pretty well known and visable, unless I am mistaken?


#3257 alansart

alansart
  • Member

  • 4,026 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 29 January 2010 - 15:28

Logically you must be right Philippe, but none with any profile that I am aware of unlike our hierarchy of reporters/writers who are pretty well known and visable, unless I am mistaken?


Don't forget the rest of the world seems to understand English, whereas many of us from the UK (myself included) can't read much of the foreign word, so just look at the pictures :rolleyes:

Edited by alansart, 29 January 2010 - 15:28.


#3258 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 15:39

Posted Image

#3259 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 January 2010 - 15:50

Posted Image


Yes Phillipe, I nearly mentioned Msr.Crombac, certainly worthy of praise but he is pretty much alone.


Advertisement

#3260 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,404 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 29 January 2010 - 17:08

And Jabby was always mischievously keen to emphasise that he was Swiss, not French...

He, I would wholeheartedly agree, could produce excellent material, he earned genuine respect and was closely involved - and trusted - by numerous major players.

As for "the Anglo-Saxon ghetto they forget that there's a world outside", well - words fail me... How many English-language works have been produced on non-Anglo-Saxon men, marques and models? How many French-language works have been produced on non-Gallic men, marques and models? I think the Anglophones might just lead in this respect.

(But no - don't talk about Rugby)

DCN

#3261 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 January 2010 - 17:14

How many French-language works have been produced on non-Gallic men, marques and models? I think the Anglophones might just lead in this respect.


DCN


As understandably we don't get them over here, unless we went around bookshops in Europe, or trawled websites, we wouldn't necessarily know. One recent publication in French on an English subject is the Mike Beuttler book. But for TNF, I would never have heard of that, for example.


#3262 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 17:38

And Jabby was always mischievously keen to emphasise that he was Swiss, not French...

He, I would wholeheartedly agree, could produce excellent material, he earned genuine respect and was closely involved - and trusted - by numerous major players.

As for "the Anglo-Saxon ghetto they forget that there's a world outside", well - words fail me... How many English-language works have been produced on non-Anglo-Saxon men, marques and models? How many French-language works have been produced on non-Gallic men, marques and models? I think the Anglophones might just lead in this respect.

(But no - don't talk about Rugby)

DCN

a proud swiss he was so as a proud québecois i am . dam french! :lol: about books youre absolutly right and its not limited to motorsport but to any special interest including art or any kind of university press and essay and the reason is very simple the potential numbers of buyers/readers is much lower . in french its not so bad but imagine in swedish or even in italian . so not only theres not much published but its very expensive , for exemple that book upthere the memoir of crombac i dont have it ( i hope for an english tranlation)cause it was too expensive more then a 100 $ for a trade paperback. but on the other hand there was always some good magazines published in france italy germany name it specially in 60s-70s -80s . now myself i only buy mags on historic racing . btw theres a new one in french very well done call Autodiva ,and they even have a website with a forum

Edited by philippe charuest, 29 January 2010 - 18:06.


#3263 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 17:44

http://www.autodiva....ewforum.php?f=2
Autodiva - forum - Autodiva i have no involvement in that operation ,so its not a plug , the first issue was in store last month in Montreal

#3264 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,357 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 17:48

How many French-language works have been produced on non-Gallic men, marques and models? I think the Anglophones might just lead in this respect.

(But no - don't talk about Rugby)

DCN

Prunet on Ferrari and ... um .... er ....

And I do have a book by Jabby (in French) which follows Elf Team Tyrrell for a season. But as you say, Doug - he's Swiss!


#3265 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 18:04

Prunet on Ferrari and ... um .... er ....

And I do have a book by Jabby (in French) which follows Elf Team Tyrrell for a season. But as you say, Doug - he's Swiss!

crombac is a bad exemple he was know as mr Lotus and that was even a running gag , and he did books on lotus and the very authorised biography of colin chapman , but in this area the problem is more that the english speaking press doesnt publish much translations . from the french ,italian or german ,but theres some exception some book of rosinski. lurani .lini cimarosti were translated


#3266 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 1,929 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 19:45

http://www.autodiva....ewforum.php?f=2
Autodiva - forum - Autodiva i have no involvement in that operation ,so its not a plug , the first issue was in store last month in Montreal

Where did you find it? I still haven't! :(

Jess G. Pourret and Serge Bellu have also written a couple of books on Ferrari, but most Francophone books seem to be translations of other books.

And then there's the odd example of Vic Elford, who wrote his biography in French before he did in English!

Edited by FLB, 29 January 2010 - 19:46.


#3267 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 20:18

Where did you find it? I still haven't! :(

a la "maison de la presse internationale " , une surprise complete pour moi je ne connaissais meme pas l'existence du site, c'est bien fait , peut etre trop ,comme les premiers numeros de "l'automobile historique"


#3268 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,235 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 29 January 2010 - 20:37

crombac is a bad exemple he was know as mr Lotus and that was even a running gag , and he did books on lotus and the very authorised biography of colin chapman...


Jabby Crombac was a really nice guy, much liked at Lotus. Each time he visited, he'd come in through the main entrance and walk through the big open office saying hello to people on his way to the inner sanctum that was the director's suite and Chapman's office. I don't think he'd had much published in English, and the first work of his that I read was his Chapman biography, which gave new meaning to the term 'hagiography'. It was OK as far as it went, but very much 'The Authorised Version'. Crombac left out some of the interesting bits, and almost all of the negative side, which everybody has, and that makes me question slightly Jabby's standing as a writer. My own opinion of Colin Chapman is that his contribution to racing and engineering generally was even greater than is generally appreciated, but without the ever so slightly 'bad side', not that I think there's anything serious other than his involvement in the DeLorean business, you just don't get the full picture. I suppose Crombac had to reach some kind of agreement with Hazel and others to get their full co-operation, but his Lotus book is far from the definitive work. Chapman and Crombac were great friends, so maybe that should have disqualified him from taking on the job in the first place.


#3269 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 20:49

Jabby Crombac was a really nice guy, much liked at Lotus.

sure .i had the chance to talk to him a couple of time at mosport and watkins glen , about doing a fair and realist biography of Colin Chapman , i wish good luck to the poor guy . cause there seem to be a cast of untouchables colin chapman ,jim clark , Jenkinson to name a few . those are mine field subject


#3270 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,235 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 29 January 2010 - 21:04

sure .i had the chance to talk to him a couple of time at mosport and watkins glen , about doing a fair and realist biography of Colin Chapman , i wish good luck to the poor guy . cause there seem to be a cast of untouchables colin chapman ,jim clark , Jenkinson to name a few . those are mine field subject


I really don't think that's true. Certainly, you won't get a lot of support on TNF if you start digging seriously into any of the names you mentioned, but surely none of them has ever been made out to be squeaky clean. The Mike Lawrence book on Chapman was a fair mixture of plus and minus points in my opinion, though it didn't go far enough into the DeLorean business, and Andrew Ferguson's book Team Lotus - The Indianapolis Years isn't wholly positive on either Chapman or Jim Clark, neither is Robin Read's Colin Chapman's Lotus. There's been negative stuff on Jenks both in A Passion For Motorsport and on TNF, as there has on Chapman and to a lesser extent Jim. Nobody's perfect, and I'd say that Chapman, Clark and Jenks have all been dealt with fairly by historians. It's people's slightly darker side that makes them 'interesting' and 'real human beings', nobody is untouchable today, especially if they're no longer with us.


#3271 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 January 2010 - 21:18

you will agree that if its not an absolute rule its a trend , and those guys are the subject of a certain idolatry who is not so healthy imo .the Andrew Ferguson book is very good and commendable for many reasons ,but speccially for that liberty of speech ., i didnt had the chance to read the other books you mention . but i keep them in mind

Edited by philippe charuest, 29 January 2010 - 21:20.


#3272 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 January 2010 - 21:33

and those guys are the subject of a certain idolatry who is not so healthy imo


This is surely largely due to their achievements in their respective fields. The overiding impression I hold of each of these three gentlemen is that Chapman was a man of little tolerance and patience, and was a bit scary on the whole, Clark was shy to a fault and somewhat vunerable, and Jenks was a complete eccentric. Having only shaken hands with Chapman and Jenks, and never having met Clark, these impressions were formed for me totally by the way the media portrayed them, and who obviously on the whole did not consider them to be "untouchable" as you state, Phillipe.


#3273 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,235 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 29 January 2010 - 21:51

you will agree that if its not an absolute rule its a trend , and those guys are the subject of a certain idolatry who is not so healthy imo .


Once again Philippe, I really don't think that's true. If you're a Motor Sport subscriber, you'll receive a monthly e-mail from the magazine's Editor Damien Smith (back on topic!), and a month or so ago, in writing about Ross Brawn, he rashly (in my opinion very rashly indeed), compared him with Colin Chapman. Many who weren't around at the time, seem to believe that Chapman built cars that didn't completely comply with the rules, thereby gaining an unfair advantage and putting at risk drivers' lives, but there's absolutely no evidence to support that. Brawn on the other hand, illegal refuelling rigs, illegal bargeboards, illegal software, I could go on, but in comparison, Colin Chapman was a true saint. He was as competitive a man as you could meet, but winning by cheating would have meant nothing to him, he just wouldn't have done it, and no-one has come up with any evidence that he ever did. The comments that Damien's comparison attracted though, astounded me. Colin Chapman certainly isn't 'idolised' by many today, one or two who commented, clearly with a very sketchy knowledge of motor racing history, virtually called him a mass murderer, almost as if he'd stuck a knife into poor Jim, Jochen, Mike Spence and others. Clearly no 'idolatry' as far as they are concerned.


#3274 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,404 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 29 January 2010 - 22:14

Spot on Rob - this 'idolatry' assumption is just complete twaddle. I'm as quick as anyone to defend Chapman and DSJ and a few others. Yet equally I have been as rude and as condemnatory in print of both as I have felt fit, based upon the evidence and my personal experience. As you say, Chunky would no more have cheated - per se - than fly to the moon unassisted. If rule makers left any gaps he could exploit...well, that was another matter. When it came to playing fast and loose with public funds - when he saw a bunch of his intellectual inferiors so willingly showering such funds upon a palpably crooked (but convenient) foreigner - then he became convinced that he, too, deserved a share. That, sadly, remains to his profound discredit; understandable, but utterly unacceptable.

DCN

#3275 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 January 2010 - 22:44

It is worth remembering that we are reacting to the views of a French Canadian whose first language is not English, and by his own admission has limited access to the printed word on the subjects under discussion, so his views may well be subject to this disadvantage.

#3276 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 30 January 2010 - 15:00

thanks giraffe but its not useful , we have all the books and the magazine we need in french and in english in montreal no problem . there was sport -auto Autosport and motosport and even german and italian mags too. and that since the sixties as far as i can remember anyway ,and i have a huge amount of books(way too many on the history of motorsport) in french and in english more in english for reasons that are already explained . the problem here is just a basic excess of childish pighead nationalism . and people who dont even seem to bother to read what i say or reed between the lines things who are not there. who ever mention chapman cheating ?.and the excess and the general tone of the answers i receive are the very proof that im right .

Edited by philippe charuest, 30 January 2010 - 15:23.


#3277 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 30 January 2010 - 16:35

How should we be seen to view these individuals then in your opinion, Philippe? Inevitably the development of a certain order is unavoidable. We Brits for example are famous for putting our heroes up on pedestals and then taking great delight in knocking them down! This is why I am struggling to appreciate your view. Arguably the only person to avoid that fate in our sport is Stirling Moss.

#3278 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 30 January 2010 - 16:53

How should we be seen to view these individuals then in your opinion, Philippe? Inevitably the development of a certain order is unavoidable. We Brits for example are famous for putting our heroes up on pedestals and then taking great delight in knocking them down! This is why I am struggling to appreciate your view. Arguably the only person to avoid that fate in our sport is Stirling Moss.

Moss is a great driver no doubt so as Clark , theres a fine line between saying the obvious about someone saying he was a great pilot/engineer /journalist without doing legend fabrication . and that line was cross very often in the past , and its true that press now is more critic and talk more of the less shinny side of some people. still theres a lot of history re-writing to do . and its always good to avoid "cliché" like Jenkinson was by far the best journalist of all time , specially when those statements come from people who are strictly unilingual

Edited by philippe charuest, 30 January 2010 - 17:56.


#3279 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,078 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 30 January 2010 - 18:07

Philippe,

What I do not understand is why you are grouping people's views of Jenkinson, Chapman and Clark together and jointly condemning them.

Jenkinson was a reporter whose writings many here enjoyed. We respect his reporting of the facts - Who passed who on what lap? What chassis they drove? etc. Generally, because it was his nature, the reporting is as factually accurate as he could makeit; on occasions he would contradict the official announcements from teams. The other aspect of his writing was when he offered an opinion on some aspect of the sport. His bias was plain to see and you accepted it because you knew that the opinion was based on his deep knowledge and understanding of the sport tempered by his prejudices. I accept that as most native English speakers are unilingual we suffer from not being able to read what the likes of Barzini, Cimorosti, von Frankenberg etc have writtenother than in translation. But this does not in anyway reduce the respect in which Jenkinson deserves to be held.

Chapman was a manufacturer and designer of cars. He introduced many innovations to motor racing, which is not to say that all the ideas were his own. Like all engineers he developed and built on ideas of others in addition to introducing his own ideas. But, as most acknowledge, he had several character flaws. He would happily accept credit for ideas that were not his own, whether he himself said they were or whether he did not correct others who attributed ideas to him. His business ethics were questionable cumulating in the "De Lorean affair". But on balance he brought a lot to the table as did Colombo, Lampredi, Uhlenhaut, Hild, Forgieri, Barnard etc. Because of what has been written in English, it is natural that English speakers are more aware of the contributions of Maddocks, Hassan, Berthron, Costin, Duckworth, Rudd and other British designers. I don't think you can put it down to jingoism.

Clark is another story. In a car he had so much natural ability that he did not need to understand why certain things happened and consequently he was not known for having the ability to develop a car. People accept that he could not be described as a test driver, development driver, engineer in the cockpit or any other such term, but nevertheless praise him for his driving ability. On a personal note, the only criticism I have seen from his contemporaries is his indecisiveness.

Now let us consider your compatriot Gilles Villeneuve. Here opinions differ. Nobody questions his ability to extract the most from a car. Some revere him for it, however, some consider that he did so to excess and had he on occasions driven less hard he might have achieved more results. But these opinions have nothing to do with the language they are expressed in. I am sure that opinion amongst French Canadian writers and enthusiasts is as divided as it is amongst the English speakers.

Advertisement

#3280 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 30 January 2010 - 18:25

Bringing us back o/t, one thing Philippe's posts have made me realise is how very fortunate we are in this country to have Motor Sport magazine. The only vaguely comparable title I take when I can is Vintage Motorsport from the US, but apart from that, what is there in Europe or Australasia for that matter? I reaally feel quite guilty for taking the magazine so much for granted.

Edited by Giraffe, 30 January 2010 - 18:27.


#3281 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 30 January 2010 - 19:06

Bringing us back o/t, one thing Philippe's posts have made me realise is how very fortunate we are in this country to have Motor Sport magazine. The only vaguely comparable title I take when I can is Vintage Motorsport from the US, but apart from that, what is there in Europe or Australasia for that matter? I reaally feel quite guilty for taking the magazine so much for granted.

that i agree , thats why i still buy motor-sport even with his new nouveaux riche bling-bling style , and if i was still buying modern motorsport weekly i would probably buy Autosport ,theres no equivalent in north america so(well theres the "vintage racecar journal" who is good but i cant find it anymore ), for french journalism its in a low point now as far as i know (i dont buy magazine on modern motor racing anymore and any new page on the subject in motor-sport make me wonder if i should continue to buy it) , but it wasnt always the case in the sixties/seventies french mags were at the top, much better then in the uk then

Edited by philippe charuest, 30 January 2010 - 20:22.


#3282 philippe charuest

philippe charuest
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 30 January 2010 - 19:23

Philippe,

What I do not understand is why you are grouping people's views of Jenkinson, Chapman and Clark together and jointly condemning them.

Jenkinson was a reporter whose writings many here enjoyed. We respect his reporting of the facts - Who passed who on what lap? What chassis they drove? etc. Generally, because it was his nature, the reporting is as factually accurate as he could makeit; on occasions he would contradict the official announcements from teams. The other aspect of his writing was when he offered an opinion on some aspect of the sport. His bias was plain to see and you accepted it because you knew that the opinion was based on his deep knowledge and understanding of the sport tempered by his prejudices. I accept that as most native English speakers are unilingual we suffer from not being able to read what the likes of Barzini, Cimorosti, von Frankenberg etc have writtenother than in translation. But this does not in anyway reduce the respect in which Jenkinson deserves to be held.

Chapman was a manufacturer and designer of cars. He introduced many innovations to motor racing, which is not to say that all the ideas were his own. Like all engineers he developed and built on ideas of others in addition to introducing his own ideas. But, as most acknowledge, he had several character flaws. He would happily accept credit for ideas that were not his own, whether he himself said they were or whether he did not correct others who attributed ideas to him. His business ethics were questionable cumulating in the "De Lorean affair". But on balance he brought a lot to the table as did Colombo, Lampredi, Uhlenhaut, Hild, Forgieri, Barnard etc. Because of what has been written in English, it is natural that English speakers are more aware of the contributions of Maddocks, Hassan, Berthron, Costin, Duckworth, Rudd and other British designers. I don't think you can put it down to jingoism.

Clark is another story. In a car he had so much natural ability that he did not need to understand why certain things happened and consequently he was not known for having the ability to develop a car. People accept that he could not be described as a test driver, development driver, engineer in the cockpit or any other such term, but nevertheless praise him for his driving ability. On a personal note, the only criticism I have seen from his contemporaries is his indecisiveness.

Now let us consider your compatriot Gilles Villeneuve. Here opinions differ. Nobody questions his ability to extract the most from a car. Some revere him for it, however, some consider that he did so to excess and had he on occasions driven less hard he might have achieved more results. But these opinions have nothing to do with the language they are expressed in. I am sure that opinion amongst French Canadian writers and enthusiasts is as divided as it is amongst the English speakers.

first i never condemn anybody ,i just did put them together cause they have in common to be the subject of a a slightly exagerate admiration (i have use the word adulation my mistake )by some people , second you say yourself that Jenkinson was very subjective "tempered by his prejudices"(i have said opiniatted ),so not to the taste of everybody you will admit .three about Clark "the only critisism i have seen from his contemporaries is his indeciseveness" that doesnt ring you a small alarm bell . and finnally about Villeneuve a great raw talent a "natural" as pilot but a total and complete moron for anything else you could say the same of his brother a huge talent but god hes dumb. no need to wear white gloves with me

Edited by philippe charuest, 30 January 2010 - 21:38.


#3283 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 03 February 2010 - 22:11

March edition due on the news stands Friday, which could mean tomorrow. Have any subscribers got their copies yet? Anything special to look out for? :cat:

#3284 RA Historian

RA Historian
  • Member

  • 3,427 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 03 February 2010 - 22:21

Just got the Feb. issue yesterday. For US subscribers, this is weeks ahead of the last few months. Things are looking up.

Tom

#3285 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,015 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 03 February 2010 - 22:27

It works both ways, Tom. The Nov/Dec edition of Vintage Motorsport is still on the shelves here. I could have purchased the Jan/Feb edition at the recent Autosport International show for £7.00 (cover price £4.25!!!)

#3286 cdrewett

cdrewett
  • Member

  • 361 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 04 February 2010 - 07:07

It works both ways, Tom. The Nov/Dec edition of Vintage Motorsport is still on the shelves here. I could have purchased the Jan/Feb edition at the recent Autosport International show for £7.00 (cover price £4.25!!!)

While thinking about Vintage Motorsport please spare a thought for European Editor Ed McDonough whose lovely wife Nancy died last Sunday.
Chris

#3287 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 04 February 2010 - 07:10

Very sorry to hear that

My sympathies

#3288 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,600 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 04 February 2010 - 08:40

Posted 2 years ago;
In this month's newsletter the VSCC draws to its members' attention that on February 22 Bill Boddy MBE, Founder Editor of Motor Sport magazine, will achieve his 95th birthday.
Those of a generous and appreciative disposition might consider sending their congratulations to WB via the Motor Sport office;
editorial@motorsportmagazine.co.uk
editorial staff can be contacted at first name dot second name at motorsportmagazine.co.uk
Roger Lund.


2 years down the line The Bod will shortly celebrate his 97th birthday on February 22.

Roger Lund


#3289 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 04 February 2010 - 10:04

March edition due on the news stands Friday, which could mean tomorrow. Have any subscribers got their copies yet? Anything special to look out for? :cat:

Mine dropped onto the mat this morning
Haven't had time to open it yet


#3290 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,761 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 04 February 2010 - 11:31

March edition due on the news stands Friday, which could mean tomorrow. Have any subscribers got their copies yet? Anything special to look out for? :cat:



Mine dropped onto the mat this morning
Haven't had time to open it yet


Like David my copy of the March Motor Sport landed this morning. There is ...

(a) a 21 page "salute to LOTUS
(b) an insight into Virgin Racing (that's Richard Branson's team BTW)
© Simon Taylor interviews Robin Herd
(d) fascinating insights written by Brian Shawe-Taylor on such luminaries as Fangio, Nuvolari and Hawthorn
(e) the track Visit is to Ollon-Villars & looks first rate
(f) there is a photgraphic review of the 1949 Jersey Road Races by DCN
(g) Gordon Kirby takes a look at the career of Parnelli Jones
(h) the Classic Racing Car is the Ford Escort Mk 1
plus all the usual columns and reviews

Now to get the kettle on the boil, a cup of coffee and a toasted hot cross bun and a couple of hours to get stuck in!

:wave:

#3291 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,235 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 04 February 2010 - 12:22

My copy dropped on the mat this morning as well, and after a quick flick through, I browsed the adverts in the rear. That yellow 911 RS is still listed in Nick Whale's ad as 'The ex-James Hunt car', but I imagine that print deadlines frustrated any correction, but slightly more serious is an ad on the same page for a 1962 Lola Climax F1, claimed to be ex-Surtees which could be true, but described as 'a Grand Prix winner'. Has a late appeal just been heard for one of the two 1962 GPs in which JS finished second, which was the best that car ever achieved? I think we should be told, but since the two drivers who finished in front of John's Lola in those two races were Graham Hill and Jim Clark, at least there's no major disappointment in store for them.

#3292 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 04 February 2010 - 12:43

Surtees won the 1963 New Zealand Grand Prix in a Lola, elbeit with 2.5 FPF engine :)

#3293 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,235 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 04 February 2010 - 13:04

Surtees won the 1963 New Zealand Grand Prix in a Lola, elbeit with 2.5 FPF engine :)


True, but it's a 1962 1.5 litre F1 car, so as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't let them off the hook.


#3294 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 04 February 2010 - 15:27

Also, BRGP42 wasn't the NZ GP winner

Also, the ad's not Nick Whale's :)

#3295 RA Historian

RA Historian
  • Member

  • 3,427 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 04 February 2010 - 16:31

Didn't Big John win the 1962 Mallory Park race in a F-1 Lola? If this is that car the ad could be construed as being fairly correct. Of course, what one defines as a "Grand Prix" comes into play.
Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 04 February 2010 - 16:32.


#3296 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 04 February 2010 - 18:17

Yes he did. I thought of that race but it wasn't a Grand Prix

If they'd called the car a "Formula 1 winner" we couldn't complain

Edited by David McKinney, 04 February 2010 - 18:18.


#3297 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,235 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 04 February 2010 - 19:35

Mine dropped onto the mat this morning
Haven't had time to open it yet


Well, when you do find the time, have a look at page 147.

The top half of the page is Nick Whale's ad (wrongly attributed 'James Hunt 911 RS'), and the bottom half of the same page is some US outfit describing a 1962 F1 Lola in a misleading manner.

Which is what I said in the first place.


#3298 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,078 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 04 February 2010 - 20:31

Well, mine arrived today - beating the news stands.

I haven't got to the adverts yet but I assume they'll feature the usual "genuine fakes". Given WB's and DSJ's passion for accuracy I'm surprised the magazine don't censor the worst offenders . I know it's advertising revenue not the readership's interests that governs, but I think that a magazine with Motor Sport's reputation for integrity might feel a tad guilty if someone bought a car based on an inaccurate or misleading description on their pages

#3299 Brynmor

Brynmor
  • Member

  • 101 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 04 February 2010 - 20:40

Well, mine arrived today - beating the news stands.

I haven't got to the adverts yet but I assume they'll feature the usual "genuine fakes". Given WB's and DSJ's passion for accuracy I'm surprised the magazine don't censor the worst offenders . I know it's advertising revenue not the readership's interests that governs, but I think that a magazine with Motor Sport's reputation for integrity might feel a tad guilty if someone bought a car based on an inaccurate or misleading description on their pages


Mine hasn't arrived ..hey ho..

Advertisement

#3300 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 04 February 2010 - 20:59

Well, when you do find the time, have a look at page 147.

The top half of the page is Nick Whale's ad (wrongly attributed 'James Hunt 911 RS'), and the bottom half of the same page is some US outfit describing a 1962 F1 Lola in a misleading manner.

Which is what I said in the first place.


Sorry, Rob

The old speed reading's not what it used to was