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#3851 Rob Ryder

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 18:12

That tone, personal bias, lack of insight and childish personal swipes are exemplary in 20 years of motorsports reporting and unfortunately have continued in spirit at Motorsports Magazine until today. I for one am glad I don't subscribe to it.

A bit like your comments then?
As someone who does not subscribe you must have bought many copies from newsagents to be so well informed regarding Motor Sport.
The magazine has gone through some bad times (content-wise) over the years but on the whole I find it acceptable now (and yes, I do subscribe).
Rob
P.S. I also like Nigel Roebuck  ;)

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#3852 frp

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 18:18

Motorsport magazine is technically the weakest and politically the most biased racing magazine I know.

Their articles are technically completely unresearched, offer no technical information, and their editors are almost all biased towards their own subjective opinions.

Off the top of my head, NONE of the publications from 1991 to 1995 and 2003-2007 offer any technical knowledge that not all of the other publications carry (the best I know of is the Heinz Pruller publication, he carries technical info that NO other publication does.)

And as for subjectivity, I know that Nigel Roebuck is the most biased motorsports journalist I have ever come across. He slated Senna shen he was alive and continues to do so now. A gem is: "most people don't know that Bellof was catching them both (Prost and Senna) in Monaco '84."

Without ofcourse, mentioning that Bellof was driving an N/A car as opposed to near enough everyone else on Turbo's, including Prost and Senna. Some reporting.

For the single most biased piece of reporting (let alone motorsporting journalism) read the dec 1991 publication and "DJT"'s "contribution" to it.

That tone, personal bias, lack of insight and childish personal swipes are exemplary in 20 years of motorsports reporting and unfortunately have continued in spirit at Motorsports Magazine until today. I for one am glad I don't subscribe to it.

Thanks for that Gold.
There are some poor people who have been reading Motorsport for 60 years or more who have been waiting for you to come along and make up their minds for them.

Myself, I rather enjoy it.
P.S. I also like Nigel Roebuck  ;)

Edited by frp, 09 September 2011 - 18:20.


#3853 Sharman

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 18:45

Thank you for an obviously considered opinion Goldie. I have considered your opinion and suggest you will be happier if you spend your pocket money on something else. Now go and play quietly with your teddy bear like a good little boy.

#3854 Giraffe

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 18:57

Motorsport magazine is technically the weakest and politically the most biased racing magazine I know.


We have a new Gold standard. :smoking:

#3855 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 19:29

Fearing hostility from all quarters, may I just say that Gold is entitled to his own opinion and though it may not fall into line with the TNF norm where Motor Sport is concerned, we should not ridicule the man simply because we don't agree with him.

Each to his own, gentlemen.

#3856 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 19:41

Well said, Barry.

#3857 E1pix

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 19:51

Fearing hostility from all quarters, may I just say that Gold is entitled to his own opinion and though it may not fall into line with the TNF norm where Motor Sport is concerned, we should not ridicule the man simply because we don't agree with him.

Each to his own, gentlemen.

Holy Moly, someone finally stated the obvious and greatest flaw I've witnessed on internet message boards. :up:

We sometimes seem to forget that we all love the same sport! Brothers in Speed, so to speak. I too have been guilty at times but am working hard to not jump on negative bandwagons — but also refuse to be ridiculed without reply. Ganging up on people for their opinions is right out of grade school, and we are better than that. Freedom of speech should always rule.

#3858 PCC

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 19:58

Fearing hostility from all quarters, may I just say that Gold is entitled to his own opinion and though it may not fall into line with the TNF norm where Motor Sport is concerned, we should not ridicule the man simply because we don't agree with him.

Each to his own, gentlemen.

I couldn't agree more. The tendency to ridicule rather than discuss disagreement is one of the most disheartening aspects of the web (but maybe that's a topic for the Blood Pressure thread...).

By the way, I disagree with Gold. I like strong opinion, as long as it's informed - that's the reason I read the magazine. On a good day, it's also one of the attractions of this board.

#3859 ensign14

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:45

And as for subjectivity, I know that Nigel Roebuck is the most biased motorsports journalist I have ever come across. He slated Senna shen he was alive and continues to do so now. A gem is: "most people don't know that Bellof was catching them both (Prost and Senna) in Monaco '84."

Without ofcourse, mentioning that Bellof was driving an N/A car as opposed to near enough everyone else on Turbo's, including Prost and Senna. Some reporting.

But he was also driving a Tyrrell, a team that hadn't won for a year and in fact would never do so again...at least vis a vis Prost that was quite impressive. Anyway, in 1985 Roebuck wrote of Senna "we live on the verge of an exciting era with Senna...if his driving lacks anything at this stage, it is perhaps patience, knowing when to give way. That will probably come with time [heh], and when it does he may become untouchable." Doesn't seem to be slating, really. In fact it sounds prescient.

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#3860 bradbury west

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 21:43

Motorsport magazine is technically the weakest and politically the most biased racing magazine I know....Their articles are technically completely unresearched, offer no technical information, and their editors are almost all biased towards their own subjective opinions....Off the top of my head, NONE of the publications from 1991 to 1995 and 2003-2007 offer any technical knowledge that not all of the other publications carry


Perhaps you might be so kind as to clarify your sweeping views with more specific detail. Clearly you have access to a large library of MS and other magazines. Over what precise period of publication does your view hold firm?. I would not regard MS now as a racing, per se, magazine, but perhaps that is just my own interpretation.
Roger Lund


#3861 john aston

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 06:58

Gold has a point about subjectivity. Where we differ is that the strong opinions in MS are its principal appeal to many of us. Technical content- dunno- I would rather read a lunch with Simon Taylor piece than 300 words of deathless prose about the DRS.( Some gizmo fitted to the modern F1 car I believe M' Lud). If Mr Gold wants the Gradgrind approach I am sure magazines all about Facts are available.

#3862 retrospeed

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 09:21

Gold has a point about subjectivity. Where we differ is that the strong opinions in MS are its principal appeal to many of us. Technical content- dunno- I would rather read a lunch with Simon Taylor piece than 300 words of deathless prose about the DRS.( Some gizmo fitted to the modern F1 car I believe M' Lud). If Mr Gold wants the Gradgrind approach I am sure magazines all about Facts are available.


Poor old Motor Sport damned if they do and damned if they don't. The same goes for my Internet classic motor sport magazine. We do our best to entertain, provide daily updates and generally enjoy what we do. Frankly I'm fed up with writing about E types and prefer integrales to MGBs. But ignore one in favour of the other and readers shout bias. I don't like the paper weight of the new M/S and the different sizes spoil by line of bound editions but so be it.

#3863 Allan Lupton

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 10:17

If Gold be right about the lack of research then I'm with him and lack of technical content is a modern magazine characteristic which I also deplore. As for bias, I expect MS writers are as biassed as anyone and they probably write as subjectively as many, so what's new - remember Bill Boddy's pro-Volkswagen bias of the 1950s and '60s!
The point has been laboured that we older folk expect MS to be the magazine we remember, with real race reports that became reference items half a century later, road tests that did not suck up to the manufacturer's PR department and technical articles which, while not up to Automobile Engineer standard, gave the enthusiast some idea of how new developments worked.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 10 September 2011 - 10:19.


#3864 Sharman

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 10:51


I responded as I did because I suspect that Goldie, in this instance, adopts the position of Troll.

#3865 RogerFrench

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 04:31

While Gold has every right to his opinion, he must be aware that most subscribers to this thread, and maybe even to this forum, are Motor Sport readers and a good number are regular subscribers.
In that light his post is gratuitously insulting, and he deserves whatever he gets!


#3866 kayemod

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:44

The latest Jackie Stewart issue arrived this morning, and it looks expecially good, but this post is really a question about an ad that appeared in the magazine a few months ago, Charles Agg was offering for sale a large chunk of Trojan's old production records. He told us he was looking for a 'safe custodian' or words to that effect, does anyone know if a buyer was found? If so, I'm sure we'd all love to know how much was paid, but I guess that's something that will never be known. I think this ad was discussed briefly in this thread some time back, so I thought this might be a good place to post this query, does anyone know anything at all?

Edited by kayemod, 26 October 2011 - 11:44.


#3867 Doug Nye

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 21:16

Umm - excuse me for being out of touch, but I seem to have missed something in life. What exactly is the Troll position?

DCN

#3868 MCS

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 21:26

Umm - excuse me for being out of touch, but I seem to have missed something in life. What exactly is the Troll position?

DCN


Not sure at all, but seem to remember a "Troll" hiding under a bridge in the woods in an early schooldays story.

Scandinavian, I think. Not sure "schooldays" is actually a word, but it does look slightly Scandinavian - well to me anyway!!


#3869 ensign14

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 21:35

Trolling = making provocative statements on the internet for the sole purpose of causing strife.

#3870 bradbury west

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 21:38

Umm - excuse me for being out of touch, but I seem to have missed something in life. What exactly is the Troll position? DCN


Doug, I believe it is a term given to malevolent and vicious-spirited people who delight on the internet in deliberately raising a web page, or jumping onto a thread, in the name of a person or cause, adopting a hostile and invariably callous stance, usually mocking a tribute page, eg saying most unpleasant things about a schoolboy/girl who took their own life because of hostility at school etc. or about an anorexic girl who died of her condition. Difficult to explain fully.
http://www.guardian....cking-teenagers
Hope that helps
Roger Lund

edit; Richard has pipped me to it, and has put it succinctly. RL

Edited by bradbury west, 26 October 2011 - 21:40.


#3871 MCS

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 22:24

All sounds horrible - and not the Norse mythology type that I could remember, although there may have been some of the said creatures once upon a time in Standard House...

#3872 P0wderf1nger

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 16:45

Trolling = making provocative statements on the internet for the sole purpose of causing strife.

Ah, so that's the Troll Position.

TNFers are no doubt aware of the tantric sex position known as the Plumber. You stay in all day and no one comes...

#3873 doc knutsen

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 17:40

Umm - excuse me for being out of touch, but I seem to have missed something in life. What exactly is the Troll position?

DCN


The Troll position would be in a huge cave, deep inside a mountain in the central eastern part of Norway. Oh sorry, that is their resting position. Trolls occasionally appear outside of the caves, at night, lusting for the blood of Christians. Many of those who have visited the mountains of Norway will have seen tall masts, carrying power cables, criss-crossing the mountains and the fiords. Well, they may look like power cables, but they actually act like giant electric cattle fences, keeping the Trolls in check.


#3874 doc knutsen

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 17:43

Not sure at all, but seem to remember a "Troll" hiding under a bridge in the woods in an early schooldays story.

Scandinavian, I think. Not sure "schooldays" is actually a word, but it does look slightly Scandinavian - well to me anyway!!


Yes, most of us are a bit like that...three heads, and giant noses with trees growing out of huge nostrils. :lol:


#3875 Sharman

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 18:17

There are Trolls who are members of the Watch in Ankh-Morpork, one is a sergeant!!

#3876 MCS

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 18:29

Yes, most of us are a bit like that...three heads, and giant noses with trees growing out of huge nostrils. :lol:


Thanks for that comforting information, doc. I do get concerned when new suggestions are made as to what people from different nations look like in this modern age. Status quo there then.

Have to say though that Sharman's latest comment seems more than a little threatening - it looks like he could be planning some sort of attack. I would watch him if I was you.

Edited by MCS, 27 October 2011 - 18:30.


#3877 doc knutsen

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 14:38

Thanks for that comforting information, doc. I do get concerned when new suggestions are made as to what people from different nations look like in this modern age. Status quo there then.

Have to say though that Sharman's latest comment seems more than a little threatening - it looks like he could be planning some sort of attack. I would watch him if I was you.


As Scandinavian Trolls go, I hasten to point out that ABBA were Swedish. As for the Danes, they were usually too busy with their Carlsbergs and ogling long-legged Copenhagen ladies to care too much about trolls. Besides suffering a severe lack of mountains, of course.
Incidentally, local trolls have been put on Orange Alert following Sharman's comments. Wooden clubs at the ready!


#3878 Glengavel

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 15:26

As Scandinavian Trolls go, I hasten to point out that ABBA were Swedish.


That explains Benny and Bjorn then.


#3879 Sharman

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 16:22

It's the Dwarves that don't get on with the Trolls but they have both in the Watch now, even female dwarves!!

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#3880 D-Type

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 16:42

If Jenks were still around, I can see him "trolling" a bit. Just to see what turned up.

#3881 kayemod

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 16:48

If Jenks were still around, I can see him "trolling" a bit. Just to see what turned up.


You're probably right, he certainly had the stature for it.


#3882 Sharman

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 19:21

You're probably right, he certainly had the stature for it.

See my previous Rob, I understand that Trolls are of a considerable size, I must, however, admit that all my knowledge of them comes from the pages of the Brothers Grimm or Mr Pratchett

#3883 kayemod

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 22:50

...all my knowledge of them comes from the pages of the Brothers Grimm or Mr Pratchett


Yes, me too, I was also raised on the Brothers Grimm, and thought that all trolls were persons of restricted growth, apparently yet another gap in my education.

On Doc Knudsen's appalling and wholly unwarranted slur on the entire Danish nation, surely he's heard of Himmelbjerget, 'Heaven Mountain' or 'Sky Mountain' in the province of Jutland? Another gap in my upbringing is that I've never set foot in Norway, but my granny was Danish, and I've been there many times. Surely Norway can't have anything that compares with the sheer majesty of the highest point in mainland Denmark ?




#3884 D-Type

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 23:58

Yes, me too, I was also raised on the Brothers Grimm, and thought that all trolls were persons of restricted growth, apparently yet another gap in my education.

On Doc Knudsen's appalling and wholly unwarranted slur on the entire Danish nation, surely he's heard of Himmelbjerget, 'Heaven Mountain' or 'Sky Mountain' in the province of Jutland? Another gap in my upbringing is that I've never set foot in Norway, but my granny was Danish, and I've been there many times. Surely Norway can't have anything that compares with the sheer majesty of the highest point in mainland Denmark ?


That's the towers of the bridge on the Storebelt crossing isn't it? :wave:


Edit: Has the bridge got a troll under it yet?

Edited by D-Type, 28 October 2011 - 23:59.


#3885 doc knutsen

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 07:30

Yes, me too, I was also raised on the Brothers Grimm, and thought that all trolls were persons of restricted growth, apparently yet another gap in my education.

On Doc Knudsen's appalling and wholly unwarranted slur on the entire Danish nation, surely he's heard of Himmelbjerget, 'Heaven Mountain' or 'Sky Mountain' in the province of Jutland? Another gap in my upbringing is that I've never set foot in Norway, but my granny was Danish, and I've been there many times. Surely Norway can't have anything that compares with the sheer majesty of the highest point in mainland Denmark ?


:rotfl: :rotfl:

Actually, and contrary to popular belief, the highest, er, hill, in the country of Denmark is not Himmelbjerget, but Ejer Bavnehoej, which struts into the skies at a whopping 172,66 metres above sea level.

#3886 Sharman

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 09:59

[quote name='kayemod' date='Oct 29 2011, 00:50' post='5364690']
Yes, me too, I was also raised on the Brothers Grimm, and thought that all trolls were persons of restricted growth, apparently yet another gap in my education.

There is another besides Mr Pratchett who suggests that Trolls are on the biggish side, that being Tolkien in "The Hobbit" and also "The Lord of the Rings" which I first encountered at the age of 12, a few years after I lost my fear of Trolls under bridges.

#3887 kayemod

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:17

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Actually, and contrary to popular belief, the highest, er, hill, in the country of Denmark is not Himmelbjerget, but Ejer Bavnehoej, which struts into the skies at a whopping 172,66 metres above sea level.


Well, if we’re going to get picky, the highest natural point in Denmark is Møllehøj at 170.86m (561 ft). It’s in the Ejerbjerge hills in Skanderborg municipality, and it is very close to Ejer Bavnehøj. New measurements were made a few years ago, and they showed that Møllehøj was even more vertiginous than Ejer Bavnehøj which had previously been been thought to be higher. Ejer Bavnehøj is 51 cm lower than Møllehøj, so there, you were apparently adding the height of the structure built on top of it.

To get back to my earlier post though, Himmelbjerget was officially Denmark’s highest point when I last climbed it some time in 2004, though all of these places are considerably taller than the late Jenks, or indeed any troll.

Jeg takker dig (I thank you).



#3888 Sharman

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:41

Well, if we’re going to get picky, the highest natural point in Denmark is Møllehøj at 170.86m (561 ft). It’s in the Ejerbjerge hills in Skanderborg municipality, and it is very close to Ejer Bavnehøj. New measurements were made a few years ago, and they showed that Møllehøj was even more vertiginous than Ejer Bavnehøj which had previously been been thought to be higher. Ejer Bavnehøj is 51 cm lower than Møllehøj, so there, you were apparently adding the height of the structure built on top of it.

To get back to my earlier post though, Himmelbjerget was officially Denmark’s highest point when I last climbed it some time in 2004, though all of these places are considerably taller than the late Jenks, or indeed any troll.

Jeg takker dig (I thank you).

Ah! But does it have Trolls?

#3889 Tony Matthews

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 11:49

a few years after I lost my fear of Trolls under bridges.

You and Great Big Billygoat Gruff...

#3890 D-Type

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 15:08

I wonder...

If we are no longer interested in discussing Motor Sport, is it because it is now so good that it can't be criticised or so bad that it's not worth it?

#3891 Giraffe

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 15:25

I have a feeling it's because the "Blood pressure" thread is no more, Duncan........... :smoking:

#3892 kayemod

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 16:00

If we are no longer interested in discussing Motor Sport, is it because it is now so good that it can't be criticised or so bad that it's not worth it?


Has anyone else noticed the disappearance of what used to be endless "My copy hasn't arrived yet" moans? As a UK resident, I've never had any problems, and when a direct debit mysteriously failed to perform a year or so ago, and I missed a couple of copies, I was very impressed indeed with the efforts the MS subscription department made to sort everything out. Possibly overseas subscribers aren't faring quite so well, but surely they'd have been telling us if they weren't receiving their copies reasonably reliably and promptly?


#3893 Sharman

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 16:10

I must add my comment to Rob's and say for the last couple of months my copy has arrived in France before the end of the preceding month ie Novembers arrived before the end of September. Long may this state of affairs continue.

#3894 BRG

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 16:19

Well, I haven't got my copy yet.

But this is solely due to my forgetting to go and buy it yesterday, and then again today.

Doh!

#3895 kayemod

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 16:31

Well, I haven't got my copy yet.


Back on track...


#3896 john aston

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 17:45

Not moaning- a brilliant read. Hans Stuck piece superb, and I even enjoyed the Ducati stuff. As my last 2 wheel experience was falling off my sisters moped and ending up in casualty in -1980- that is praise indeed.

#3897 Barry Boor

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 21:16

I am not taking my Motor Sports to Malta when I move in a few weeks.

There are about 100 copies, from around the late 1990s through to around 2009.

I also have a few years of Vintage Racecar - 2006 - 2009.

I am not asking anything for them, I just don't want to have to dump them. As long as we aren't talking John O'Groats or Land's End, I am prepared to deliver.

I have put this on the Sale/Want Ads forum but maybe it's better on here. :)

#3898 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 15:13

It's very much back on track although I don't bother with the bike column or the American one.

Interesting that there are so many whole page adverts for watches though! There must be a big profit margin on them, I can see that many readers buying them.

One concern I have in recent issues have been GC's articles, one on Alan Gow and the other on HERO. Both seemed a bit too flatterring for my liking. There are a lot of question marks about some of Gow's activities in the past and his duel role as Chair of the MSA and holder of it's biggest franchise. The same with HERO, very much a commercial organiser but relying heavily on volunteers to run the events. There was no mention of the fact that there are hundreds of historic rallies run in the Uk at a fraction of the cost of the HERO ones. Of course HERO do advertise in MS..............

#3899 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 16:11

Are there two versions of Motor Sport?
I am a subscriber and since I renewed in November my copies don't have the extra little cardboard flap outside the cover and yet it is shown inside on a photo of the current issue.
Is there a news stand version and a subscriber version and what is the difference?
The next question is why am I now getting a different version?

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#3900 RA Historian

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 17:03

It appears to me that the subscriber copies are absent the splashy graphics and glitz of the newsstand copies. That is just fine with me.
Tom