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'Motor Sport' magazine


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#4001 john aston

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 14:49

If they are looking for content they could get out and about and get to some of the less commercial historic events, VSCC, MGCC, HSCC, CSCC etc, or some hill climbs and they would catch up with some interesting cars and people who are not the ones to go to Monaco, Goodwood etc. Ed Foster does race his dad's ex works MGB form time to time and even Frankel races!
They must in due course run out of big names to feature. How many times have they done Clark, Senna, Moss etc? Is there anything more to say about them?



Totally agree- I wrote to the mag a couple of years ago suggesting this type of content. Race reports are not really important but well written 'atmospheric ' accounts of events would be welcome.I also do not ever want to read yet another Moss piece unless it says something new. I wish they would go a little off piste and do stuff which hasn't been covered before. Such as.. random examples might be the Token story, a Tony Dean piece(everything here- Can Am victory, uber club racer and clink for smuggling cigars), hillclimbs now and in the past etc. Mind you it is still so much better than the lifestyle guff in Octane et al- I fulminate when their 'must see' events are some daft concourse for eurotrash to show off their over restored 250 GTs and they never mention the sublime experience of VSCC at Cadwell etc. It is so often Villa del Este this and Pebble Beach that- yaaawn !

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#4002 mfd

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 15:32

Totally agree. It is so often Villa del Este this and Pebble Beach that- yaaawn !

I don't think I'm being cynical John, but if a journalist is given access they're going to be fed & watered at those events & write nice things about them.

#4003 nicanary

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:43

I must admit that I really enjoyed that brief period when the magazine was for history and nostalgia only, but that's because I'm a TNF member.No doubt the editorial staff were looking for a broader spectrum of reader in order to increase circulation numbers.

I'm quite happy that there are no race reports - there are plenty of other titles that offer that. Nigel Roebuck's summaries are more than enough - he can sum up the story of one race in one column.For me,the present balance is about right if they want to attract a diverse readership.You don't HAVE to read the road-test reports.

Bill Boddy's tests were rather strange - he seemed more concerned as to whether his Rolleiflex camera would fit in the glovebox.But at least the magazine was prepared to say what they thought - other titles back in the day would flatter just about anything on four wheels.It was the norm then. I've recently read a "road-test" by Mike Hawthorn of the Vauxhall Cresta c.1956 and his gushing praise of that rather ordinary vehicle would make you think it was as good as an Aurelia B20. I don't know why they bothered.

I loved it back in the 50s, and still want to buy it today, even though the entire content isn't to my taste. The world has changed, and so have editorial requirements.It's the "tactile" thing,so much nicer than a CD-Rom.

#4004 Charlieman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 14:00

I started a thread about this very thing on a different forum, and was amazed by the response, which was basically along the lines of "it's the norm now, and it's absolutely necessary if you want to stay ahead".


Words fail me too.

The photo-story in question was effectively an advertisement for a newly-published and very expensive picture-book about the McLaren enterprise.


Thanks for that reminder. Incidentally, that bit of fluff did expose me to something that I wouldn't have known about otherwise. I would never have picked the book up in a shop to browse.

Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned that Motor Sport doesn't have a big writing staff. It never has done, of course. Economic reality is that the money to pay writers is unlikely to increase in the immediate future. That fluff story about a McLaren book provided Motor Sport with six or seven pages of competently written and illustrated content, presumably for free.

I'd like to read the sort of stories that John Aston and Derwent Motorsport outline. That means people writing real stories that are cheap for the magazine to buy. Those stories are not going to generate an income, but they may subsidise a day at the races or provide an opportunity for aspiring journalists to get in print. The letters pages and historical photos demonstrate that Motor Sport is open to reader provided content.


#4005 Charlieman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 14:17

While I was writing my previous comment, I became aware of the editor's conundrum. Advertisers in Motor Sport want to sell expensive vulgar watches, cars that most of us cannot afford and private financial services. The sort of Motor Sport reader who frequents TNF wants stories that don't have a lot of advertiser appeal (ostensibly).

The editor and publisher have my sympathy.

#4006 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 14:40

I wonder about the watches. There anything up to ten full page adverts per month for assorted watches. Quite what the BRM watch has to do with BRM I do not know! Given the cost of the advertising and the presumably small number they sell, then the actual watch must cost relatively little to produce. It's the same with their product reviews, all thing saimed at folk with too much money and too little sense. I would have thought that the TNF type people are by far the majority of readers though.

#4007 BRG

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 17:08

I agree about the watches. But then, I have never seen the point of spending more than a few quid on a watch, especially since modern technology means that they are all equally amazingly accurate, whether costing £10 or £10,000.

But I suppose they only have to sell a couple of units to make it worth while running the adverts.



#4008 D-Type

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 21:22

If half a dozen irrelevant [to me] watch adverts pays for one course of "Lunch with ..." I can live with it

#4009 elansprint72

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 14:47

I have given up my Octane subscription precisely because it was a magazine full of watches, hand-bags and was about £££££$$$$$ rather than cars. Nick Mason and Tony Dron were the only columns worth reading... however (I know there is a thread about Octane) I fear the Motor Sport is going up the same route with some of the issues I have seen.

I picked up the June issue to read the Hill vs Clark feature, touted on the front cover as part of "The story of '62". I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the content of most of the magazine, I could do without the F1 stuff but the '62 story by DCN and Roebuck is eminently readable (as one would expect), the piece on hybrids at Le Mans is very interesting; the Southgate interview didn't really include anything which wasn't in his book and the feature on Tony Brooks is really a spoiler for the book which just landed on my door-mat. Cruickshank's advertorial/sales pitch for the Dino 206P was informative and included some nice detail photos but it's beyond my budget.  ;)


There are a couple of pages of nice "you were there" photos from 1950-52 but I don't think they were taken "using a Nikon F for these atmospheric shots" as the F was not available until 1959! I still use mine when I want to take a real photograph.

#4010 DogEarred

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 15:31

Even today, the magazine (just) maintains its ‘classy’ feel, even though it has never covered anything in total depth. There is usually enough in the way of special articles & features to keep me interested. Above all it was the photography that attracted me to it back in the mid sixties. I’ve always skipped over half of it, accepting that there were fine articles & writers but just not to my taste. It remains the same in that respect but I wouldn’t want to see it slip any further into the ‘Airline in Flight Magazine’ or ‘Lifestyle’ format just to survive . Hard not to in this day & age but at least the present editors/writers are doing the job they’re good at.
Personally, I rarely read the ads anyway. Shame it seems to have had to lose a lot of the former ‘small’ stuff. If only they could afford a few more pages of photos! I’m sure TNFers could contribute greatly.
I still subscribe but would have to think hard if I would really miss it. It’s all over in less than an hour as far as I’m concerned. ...


#4011 LittleChris

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:22

July's edition arrived this monrning. Looking forward to reading Lunch With Henri Pescarolo. Also DCN article on Tripoli 1933 lottery with a nod to Don Capps

#4012 RA Historian

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:47

Due no doubt to the vagaries of the US Postal Service, my June issue has yet to arrive. I eagerly await each issue, as this is a magazine which I devour. The only things I do not read are the road car articles and columns, bikes, and rallies. Just a question of personal interest there. But while some posters say that they are done with their issues in half an hour or less, I take days to read each issue, lingering over and absorbing each article, especially Nigel Roebuck's very enjoyable and informative column. As an aside, I am referring completely to hard copy here, as I refuse to read any magazine digitally, abhorring the inconvenience and frustration that goes with trying to navigate scores of pages on a computer screen. Drives me nuts.
Tom

#4013 dank

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:19

This year's reader survey is now available to fill in: http://www.motorspor...-reader-survey/



#4014 Macca

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:52

After buying the last two issues, there isn't enough in this one to be worth it.

I glanced at it and one pertinent point that Henri Pescarolo made jumped out, one that applies to F1 as well - that major manufacturer participation is always subject to one snap decision from a financial director whereas Pesca (and Williams/McLaren/Sauber etc) do it for love......OK, in modern corporate speak it is called 'core activity' but that just means they have to make it pay.

Paul M

#4015 kayemod

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:56

This year's reader survey is now available to fill in: http://www.motorspor...-reader-survey/


I received this by e-mail, and started to complete it, but gave up in some annoyance when I came to the 'lifestyle' questions. I complained to MS, as did several others, and they amended their survey. Now it's possible to fill it in but you no longer have to tell them what you earn, inside leg measurement, religion etc.


#4016 D-Type

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 15:36

This year's reader survey is now available to fill in: http://www.motorspor...-reader-survey/

Interestingly, they didn't even ask whether people attend club racing meetings. Formula 1, various "Historic car" events, VSCC/ HSCC, but not what used to be the motor sport that the mainstream fan watched.
I took great pleasure in saying "Watches, watches, watches, luggage and other nom motor sport related stuff" to the question about what I don't like.

#4017 David Beard

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 15:49

Interestingly, they didn't even ask whether people attend club racing meetings. Formula 1, various "Historic car" events, VSCC/ HSCC, but not what used to be the motor sport that the mainstream fan watched.
I took great pleasure in saying "Watches, watches, watches, luggage and other nom motor sport related stuff" to the question about what I don't like.


Has anyone completed a survey of any sort that doesn't include something impossible to answer, or much that seems irrelevant? The MS example is possibly better than most.



#4018 kayemod

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 15:49

I took great pleasure in saying "Watches, watches, watches, luggage and other nom motor sport related stuff" to the question about what I don't like.


I just put 'Andrew Frankel's road car stuff', going on to fill all of the available space in explaining the reasons.

Somewhat perversely I love watches owning several, but not the somewhat tasteless examples that MS print full-page advertisements for. At least D-Type will be relieved to know that I didn't risk encouraging them by revealing that fact on the survey though. The makers of the best watches never need to advertise them, other than by sponsorship of motor racing events like Daytona, something of which I'm sure we all approve, even if it means that all of Jackie Stewart's shirts and suits are slightly deficient in the sleeve department.


#4019 kayemod

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 15:54

Has anyone completed a survey of any sort that doesn't include something impossible to answer, or much that seems irrelevant? The MS example is possibly better than most.


No, but the annoying bit is the fact that most such surveys won't allow you to proceed if you leave offensive or unanswerable questions blank, so even if you want to complete it, you can't. MS didn't alter their survey after receiving complaints, but at least they more or less fixed the problem by making most of the intrusive questions optional.


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#4020 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 16:33

Another nice feature on the great Alberto Ascari from Nigel Roebuck had me forking our £4.99 in Smiths on saturday and I got a free bag to carry it in as well!.

#4021 D-Type

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 17:04

I just put 'Andrew Frankel's road car stuff', going on to fill all of the available space in explaining the reasons.

Somewhat perversely I love watches owning several, but not the somewhat tasteless examples that MS print full-page advertisements for. At least D-Type will be relieved to know that I didn't risk encouraging them by revealing that fact on the survey though. The makers of the best watches never need to advertise them, other than by sponsorship of motor racing events like Daytona, something of which I'm sure we all approve, even if it means that all of Jackie Stewart's shirts and suits are slightly deficient in the sleeve department.

I'm vaguely interested in elephants, aircraft, and steam engines - but I don't expect to read about them in Motor Sport. If I do want to read about them I'll purchase the appropriate specialist magazine. By all means carry the advertising, along with adverts for 3-car motor houses for your country mansion, or dodgy 'historic' cars of questionable provenance but don't devote editorial space to them.

Edited by D-Type, 28 May 2012 - 17:04.


#4022 David McKinney

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 17:15

If you don't devote editorial space to the subject, you won't get the advertising...

#4023 D-Type

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 21:04

Surely, if your readership is the target market, you'll get the advertising anyway.

An article on a car auction or car auctions won't attract any more buyers. The interested customers will read the magazine anyway and will go along and bid for a Pignatelli 250 SSK if they want one and have seen an advertisment for an auction whether there's an editorial feature on the Auction or not. besides, any auction house worth its salt will know who the potential buyers are for the top end (read top commission) cars and issue direct invitations to the potential buyers anyway. Granted, articles over the years on the Pig SSK may have increased their desire to own one so I can understand cars coming up for auction being offered for track testing and "free" publicity.

I can see the need for selling advertising to vendors of watches, leather baggage, banking, clothing, ferries, etc - but I don't see the need to voluntarily write about them. Will an article in Motor Sport or Octane or Classic Cars induce anyone to buy one? I don't think so - certainly no more than an advert in the same journal would.

So, is it some form of quid pro quo: "We'll spend some of our [large] advertising budget with you if you in turn give us some free advertising in the form of editorial content

#4024 john winfield

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 21:11

If you don't devote editorial space to the subject, you won't get the advertising...


I'm not sure about that David. I gather together related articles, from various sources, on racing subjects, and sell these batches to fellow enthusiasts. It allows me to read through, for example, back issues of Motor Sport under the pretence of work - a tough life, I know, but someone has to do it.
Avia watches were a regular advertiser throughout the early 1960s, Breitling and Chronosport in the late 1960s / early 1970s, Omega / Prestons for even longer. So far I've only noticed one or two short pieces of watch-related editorial between 1960 and 1972. I don't think these watch suppliers were bothered whether WB and team wrote about their products; I assume that Avia, Breitling et al. felt that there were enough potential customers among the Motor Sport readership to warrant their advertising expenditure. Surely many magazines, of all types, carry adverts unrelated to editorial content; the companies advertising are, I suppose, more concerned with the interests and buying habits of the readers. (There, managed to avoid using the word 'lifestyle'. Oh, bugger.)

Sorry Duncan - I was writing at the same time!

Edited by john winfield, 28 May 2012 - 21:12.


#4025 Rob29

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 14:45

Just received August issue and tried to complete survey-I guess the same one referred to here? Exept unable to ansuer most of the questions-has anyone else has this problem-nothing happens when you click on option buttons?

#4026 nicanary

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 15:00

I've just received my copy also - Now they're asking readers to vote for their favourite British driver who has been F1 World Champion. Why? What's the point?

It'll prove absolutely nothing, as it will only reflect the opinions of those who bother to vote. What next for the Green'un? Readers' wives?

#4027 dank

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 15:29

But hey, it does come with an "essential guide to motor racing" supplement...

#4028 nicanary

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:34

But hey, it does come with an "essential guide to motor racing" supplement...


"Sponsored" though. Still, they're starting down a long and dark path. Wesley Tee and Bill Boddy would have had kittens.

(To be honest, I've never "got" the Hall of Fame).

#4029 dank

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:49

I don't understand the actual point of the supplement though. It is a dummies guide to motor racing and one that the majority of Motor Sport readers will see little value in.

I dunno, these past few months I have been feeling less inclined to devour my copies of the magazine as soon as they land on my door mat. There's not really been any key features or articles that made me think "I must read that" and it's almost as if they're running out of ideas.

I can't believe, for example, that 28 pages of this month's issue are taken over for some largely irrelevant survey on who is deemed to be the best British F1 world champion. Who actually cares? And more examples of advitorial in the guise of a piece on the Silverstone Experience Centre.

#4030 nicanary

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 10:25

I doubt if the editorial staff saw the point either, but money talks, especially in the recession. Casio wanted to do it, so they obliged. To be honest. I actually learned a bit when I quickly (and I mean quickly) flicked through it - I had no idea there were so many feeder formulae now. Why do we need GP3 AND F3? That's what comes of being a TNF member I suppose.

The magazine has attempted to increase its circulation figures by appealing to a wider spectrum of readers. Fair enough, but what I consider "dumbing down" is something that will alienate the traditional reader-base. They're treading a fine path at the moment. I'll carry on, but I think others may be re-considering their subs.

There have been so many re-launches of the mag in the last couple of decades that I've lost track of what was what, but there was a time when the emphasis was heavily on history only, and I really enjoyed that phase. Presumably it dosn't sell enough.

#4031 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 12:48

Must admit I have 50/50 about renewing my subscription. There are some great articles but too many things aimed at the super rich - a bit like why Octane went down hill. I hate Frankels road tests, I don't like his style or bias.
Articles that are advertorial should be clearly marked as such.
The supplement this month is totally naff and has errors and generalisations in it. What was the point of it?
What is the point of "Who was the best British Champion?" How many times have we been told in MS that you cannot compare drivers from different eras?
Re the survey: The people who design survey forms do so in order to get the answers their clients want. Hence it is impossible to give your true views, such as; Frankel is a plonker!
I was surprised that Ed Foster was not at MG Live! given his family own an ex works B. He would have found a lot of MS readers there and surely 50 years of the MG B would be worthy of a feature in MS - they've done all the top drivers of the past 50 years time and time again.

#4032 john aston

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 12:53

Superficial supplements have been around for ever and I too did actually learn something- although it only cofirmed my long held view that there are far too many feeder formulae. Oh for the days of FF1600/2000, F3 , F2. F1 to return. And current FF has bloody TURBO engines -what on earth for ? As ever I found the magazine a good read- lunch with Stuart Graham excellent and if one ignores the idiotic competition there are very personal and well written portraits of the world champion drivers, none more so than Peter Windsor on Jim Clark.

I like magazines- always have done - and MS is the best by a long way. Octane usually provokes me into loud swearing as I read yet another article by the unspeakably smug editor about swanning round France in some exotic machinery loaned by some Eurotrash banker ; CSC is ok but never seems to be sure whether it's about the minutiae of Hillman Minx overdrive units or providing advertorial on some soon to be auctioned 60 's supercar . Martin Buckleys faux sociological musings are risible - mainly based on watching too much day time TV I think.Autosport - have ranted on here before about its fall from grace but if you are not interested in the exclusive 35page analysis on why Lewis was quicker than Jenson in last GP then save your three quid.

So I will stick with the green 'un thanks

#4033 kayemod

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 13:37

I hate Frankels road tests, I don't like his style or bias.


Couldn't agree more, and I've told them so more than once. He 'reviewed' my current car fairly recently, and was critical of "on the limit handling" and believe it or not, "the sound the exhaust made". Does this man live on the same planet as the rest of us, and has he ever had to pay for his own fuel or tyres? Apparently it's capable of about 150mph. I've had mine for almost 10 months and I love everything about it, and you may laugh, in fact you probably will, I can hear you all now, but I've taken it through Germany a couple of times, and don't think I went much over 100 on unrestricted Autobahnen. As my wife will agree, my hooligan days are largely behind me. If you agree on this, e-mail Editor Damien. He must be a busy man, but you'll usually get a considered and useful response, and I'm sure he'll take any constructive comments about MS contributors seriously, he might even read this.

On that supplement in the current issue, if it keeps the magazine going, it doesn't bother me too much. Like nicanary I learned something useful from it, but it wasn't the message intended. I'm sure they function very well, but Casio who presumably paid for it all, make some horribly cumbersome and tasteless timepieces.


#4034 nicanary

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 14:04

Naive as I am, I had rather supposed that Casio wanted an "advertising" brochure and paid MS to produce it. It's only just occurred to me that MS wanted to publish the guide and persuaded Casio to fund it.

In which case, shame on you. It's the sort of publication I'd expect from one of the redtops - anyone interested in the modern formulae would know all about it anyway. What target audience was it aimed at?

#4035 Hieronymus

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:03

I was amazed to discover that MOTOR SPORT in South Africa now sells for R70 (about 7 Euro). Not so long ago it was selling for R130. A shark in die feeding chain probably went six feet under along with his profits....may he stay there!!

#4036 nicanary

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 18:24

Surely the auctioneers offer the car for "test" simply to advertise the forthcoming auction? The magazine needs copy. The two need each other.

Personally I quite like the articles with their extensive close-ups of the cars' details. They're an interesting part of the sport's history, which is what MS is all about. I really don't care if it's a cynical ploy by the auction house.

#4037 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 19:53

Personally I quite like the articles with their extensive close-ups of the cars' details. They're an interesting part of the sport's history, which is what MS is all about. I really don't care if it's a cynical ploy by the auction house.


Good for you. 'A ploy' maybe, but why should it be considered cynical? A worthwhile auction house acts on behalf of a vendor, and that vendor has a right to expect the sale of their property to be promoted to the widest possible audience. Auction house makes property available to magazine editor eager for material that may be of interest to his or her readership. Auction house may also buy commercial advertising space in the same magazine, further to promote its clients' interests. If the editorial team get it right, their readership is indeed interested. The auction house's funds help sustain the publication. A would-be new owner bids successfully at the auction. Hopefully, he is happy with his purchase. Vendor profits, auction company profits, readers (mostly) profit from enjoyment of the story, the magazine profits and its survival is ensured for a wee while longer...to sustain the readers' cpntinuing interest.

So where does any cynicism enter into it, except in the mind of the perpetually cynical?

DCN


#4038 nicanary

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 20:53

Good for you. 'A ploy' maybe, but why should it be considered cynical? A worthwhile auction house acts on behalf of a vendor, and that vendor has a right to expect the sale of their property to be promoted to the widest possible audience. Auction house makes property available to magazine editor eager for material that may be of interest to his or her readership. Auction house may also buy commercial advertising space in the same magazine, further to promote its clients' interests. If the editorial team get it right, their readership is indeed interested. The auction house's funds help sustain the publication. A would-be new owner bids successfully at the auction. Hopefully, he is happy with his purchase. Vendor profits, auction company profits, readers (mostly) profit from enjoyment of the story, the magazine profits and its survival is ensured for a wee while longer...to sustain the readers' cpntinuing interest.

So where does any cynicism enter into it, except in the mind of the perpetually cynical?

DCN


You're the professional journalist, and made the point far better than I could. Previous posts on this thread seemed to suggest that that is what some readers thought of the articles. I happen to like pretty pictures of a 206SP, with or without the very latest that Maranello could offer.

#4039 elansprint72

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 22:02

...There are some great articles but too many things aimed at the super rich - a bit like why Octane went down hill. I hate Frankels road tests, I don't like his style or bias.


Cancelled my Octane subscription a few months back fr precisely that reason.

Last week-end at Le Mans I was introduced to Frankel; I have to say that I did not much care for the cut of his jib.

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#4040 Charlieman

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 19:06

If the editorial team get it right, their readership is indeed interested.


The limitation with this marketing and editorial trick is that it only works once in a while for a particular model. If Octane or Motor Sport had a track test of a D Type or Maserati 250F that was being offered for sale, they won't repeat the exercise twelve months later for the next seller. The trick does throw up interesting stories -- the Ferguson P99 one in Motor Sport was a charming if unchallenging tale.

The trick also works for restoration companies -- and perhaps Motor Sport is a bit unselective at times. Restoration companies can deliver interesting stories -- my attention is caught by new ways to maintain originality (repair techniques, I guess) but I enjoy reading about cars with history.

#4041 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 19:46

Quite. Although I jib a bit at the word 'trick'?

Sometimes the top-end auction houses suffer enthusiast stick simply because they are perceived to be instrumental in somehow pricing fine cars to levels far beyond our reach. In fact it's not the auctioneers who inflict that, but the basic market law of demand versus supply.

But if you take a look at the other end of the tube, one of my happiest experiences by far has been to visit a recently bereaved family who knew that their late father's 'old banger' in the garden shed was something valuable. The shrewd son-in-law, rightly protective of just-widowed Mum's interests, gave us the gipsy's warning that he knew all about the car market, and that he was well aware the car was worth 100 to 200 thousand Pounds so we had better talk sensibly to them.

We took some time to get them settled, and comfy, and over the tea and bickies we then told them that Dad's old banger was something really very special indeed, and we would estimate it achieving £900,000 to £1.1-million at auction...which three months later it did, thanks to market perception of its intrinsic value.

I drove home that day feeling like the man from Camelot, who had just confirmed to a needy family that they had just won the Lottery. In essence, they had. A happy outcome...

DCN

#4042 Roger Clark

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:26

Quite. Although I jib a bit at the word 'trick'?

Sometimes the top-end auction houses suffer enthusiast stick simply because they are perceived to be instrumental in somehow pricing fine cars to levels far beyond our reach. In fact it's not the auctioneers who inflict that, but the basic market law of demand versus supply.

But if you take a look at the other end of the tube, one of my happiest experiences by far has been to visit a recently bereaved family who knew that their late father's 'old banger' in the garden shed was something valuable. The shrewd son-in-law, rightly protective of just-widowed Mum's interests, gave us the gipsy's warning that he knew all about the car market, and that he was well aware the car was worth 100 to 200 thousand Pounds so we had better talk sensibly to them.

We took some time to get them settled, and comfy, and over the tea and bickies we then told them that Dad's old banger was something really very special indeed, and we would estimate it achieving £900,000 to £1.1-million at auction...which three months later it did, thanks to market perception of its intrinsic value.

I drove home that day feeling like the man from Camelot, who had just confirmed to a needy family that they had just won the Lottery. In essence, they had. A happy outcome...

DCN

Aren't high prices In the auction houses' interest, for the benefit of their customers and themselves, through higher commission?

#4043 Charlieman

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 18:36

Quite. Although I jib a bit at the word 'trick'?


I was struggling for a suitable term and 'trick' seemed more acceptable than 'symbiotic mutualism' ;-)

Has anybody done a back of the fag packet calculation of how much a track test costs the seller or auction house? I presume that more than one publication will get access to the event -- one magazine from the UK, one from the US, another from Germany -- so the publicity cost can be spread. How many people from the magazine are involved on the day? My guess is three -- a gofer/driver/witness/writer, a photographer and the jammy person who gets behind the wheel.


#4044 Doug Nye

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 19:41

Aren't high prices In the auction houses' interest, for the benefit of their customers and themselves, through higher commission?


Of course. And if the buyer is also content with his purchase, that's a happy outcome all round... :smoking:

I should also emphasise that prices are set by market demand - not by auction house estimates. If our blokes over-cook an estimate, and because of that the market ignores an effectively over-priced car and it doesn't sell, the vendor is upset, and so are we - no sale, no earning. There's no point in staging just another motor show, with all the expenditure involved, after which all the exhibits return to pre-existing owner.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 22 July 2012 - 19:20.


#4045 D-Type

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:52

To be realistic, at the top end of the market I doubt very much that a magazine article will tease any new potential buyers out of the woodwork. The auction houses know who the potential buyers are and no doubt issue them personal invitations. Likewise, potential buyers will know who owns the cars they would like to own and keep an eye on them.
If a magazine features an article on a rare or unusual car, as enthusiasts we should be grateful for the opportunity to learn more about it. We should not complain if the forthcoming sale is the reason for featuring the car. What we should complain about is if a car vanishes into a private collection where it won't be accessible to mere enthusiasts.

#4046 BRG

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 18:51

What we should complain about is if a car vanishes into a private collection where it won't be accessible to mere enthusiasts.

Is that a poke at Sir Bernard of Ecclestone?

If it isn't, it should be!!

#4047 D-Type

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 19:25

Just got the latest Motor Sport

It appears you can now buy a range of "luxury sport/touring bags in finest cowhide leather from .... Yes, Motor Sport! (P116)

But it also appears that
(1) A D Type Jaguar had drum brakes! (Page23)
(2) Porsche's first major outright wins were Daytona and Sebring in 1968. It appears that their wins at Sebring in 1960 and the Targa Florio in 1956 (admittedly non-Championship), 1959, 1960, 1963, and 1964 don't count. (page 100)
(3) At Easter the cream of the rally world congregated for the gruelling Circuit of Ireland - not the Safari! (Page104)

I wonder.... have they got their priorites wrong?

Edited by D-Type, 26 July 2012 - 23:16.


#4048 kayemod

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 19:33

Just got the latest Motor Sport

I wonder.... have they got their priorities wrong?


Never mind the quality, just feel those pages on road cars like the latest Vauxhall Astra, mmm...


#4049 Allan Lupton

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:47

(2) Porsche's first major outright wins were Daytona and Sebring in1968. It appears that their wins at Sebring in 1960 and the Targa Florio in 1956 (admittedly non-Championship), 1959, 1960, 1963, and 1964 don't count. (page 100)

Not only those, but Rouen in 1962 stands as their only outright win in the category - unless you count Solitude a week later. ):

#4050 D-Type

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 23:15

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and only considering sports car races :cool: