Jump to content


Photo

'Motor Sport' magazine


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4174 replies to this topic

#401 Steve L

Steve L
  • Member

  • 243 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:46

Got my copy of MS through the post yesterday, too.

As usual, it arrived in a crummy state - as well as the usual creasing, mine always seem to be torn through the spine in at least one place (and this isn't done in the post as the bag the magazines come in are always intact). So, I've cancelled my subscription and will now pick up a copy at the newsagent each month.

I agree that this month's issue has excellent content, and I very much enjoyed reading it last night (only a month to go till the next issue!).

I'm sure that compared to some people on the board I've only been reading MS for a little time (bought my first issue in 1989!), but some observations on the new format: -

*I don't mind the red cover, but have to agree that the green one looked much better and made it easier to spot in the newsagents.

*I like the new sections (club racing reviews etc), but the whole magazine now seems horribly jumbled, and it is hard to see where a section like the News starts and finishes!

*I think the book & DVD reviews could be a bit longer.

Advertisement

#402 Stuart_Forrest

Stuart_Forrest
  • Member

  • 92 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:47

Originally posted by Stephen W


Any road up, Motor Sport is still the best monthly Motor Racing magazine available in Britain - Long May It Remain So! :cool:


Thanks for the kind words. From your profile I'd guess that you'll be looking forward to next months issue already - Stewart on Rindt, by Roebuck.

#403 Eric McLoughlin

Eric McLoughlin
  • Member

  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:50

Done the survey.

As Steve L has said, the magazine does sometimes arrive with damage. Is this because of the slightly odd format chosen?

Why was this shape selected for the re-launch back in 1997?

#404 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 5,742 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:53

Stuart,

I do so agree with others its nothing short of a miracle these days to even get a reply to a letter of complaint, let alone answer everyones points, so thank you for that.

I'm not going to let the DVD thing drop just yet - for those who were not buying the magazine in the months post the '97 remodelling , we all received a VHS of archive motor racing material with each issue, 6 in all

Jaguar the racing history
Clark & Stewart
Le Mans 1969
Auto Union Action
Birth of a Legend (the DFV )
Astons in action

We also recieved an audio CD "The Sounds of Goodwood" with Simon Taylor and Nick Mason in splendid stereo separation

ERA, BRM V16, D-Type , 250F, Lotus 18, 250 GTO, and 512S


Now these were compiled and produced by the most excellent Mr David Weguelin ( of Motorfilms Quarterly fame ) and they were all highly desirable films gratefully received and mitigated the large jump in cover price. Then of course it never happened again , C&SC also gave away some excellent tapes.

I feel sure royalties have to be paid on feature films and music tapes and those are cost you would not have to bear. .........You even get CDs as junk mail through the post these days so they can only cost pence.

Tell us , if you order 40,000 DVDs to be pressed how much are they each for you to buy?

Why not get Shell or BP to Brand them and let them pay all the cost - they have each both just declared £9 Billion net profit for the year just ended and both with Castrol , which is a BP brand have a long and distinguished history of producing wonderful motor sport films - so sadly missed in the modern era . It could be beneficial to both parties.

Who was it said "don't bring me reasons for not doing something - bring me solutions "

..........and Haymarket is a big noise in magazine publishing, who could do with a bit of image polishing.

On the TV news only this morning your competitor EMAP is to spend £16M on advertising alone to launch a single new fashion magazine title.

I really do feel this is the way to go and you could do the readers and yourselves a lot of good.

#405 Hieronymus

Hieronymus
  • Member

  • 2,031 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:56

Originally posted by petefenelon


Is it good beer though?


The finest from South African Breweries, indeed!

ps. Drink it cold, though. Very cold!

#406 Neri Moreira

Neri Moreira
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:57

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest


Hi Neri,

We offer gifts to UK subscribers who sign up via Direct Debit from the magazine (simply because we can't take direct debit gift subscriptions from overseas subscribers). For UK subscribers who wish to renew their direct debit the gift is also available (although their existing subs rate would be cheaper than the one advertised) and the same applies to those wishing to change from a credit card to direct debit.

We're trying to increase the number of overseas events that we attend, and at all of these we will offer gifts to overseas subscribers. We'll be at a large number of US events this year, although sadly not so many in Europe with it being a non Le Mans/Monaco year.

I understand the problem with gifts for overseas subscribers, and would love to be able to offer a better solution.

Best,

Stuart


Hi again Stuart

Thank you very much for your quick answer :)

I understand the reasons why I didnt get any gift yet, but I will also feel a litle fustrated if you eventually come to the July Porto event (IF it will happen as planed) and you will offer gifts to NEW portuguese subscribers, that I, as I am already a subscriber wont have access :(

I'm also happy that you wrote that article about the Monsanto track, last issue, and I cant wait the day you decide to do an article on Porto, and hope I can be of some assistance then (just ask Sir Striling Moss about my 1958 photos :D)

I'm glad that you state that you would love to offer a better solution......

Well, .....(cough, cough) just one of the "few rather beautiful Exoto Daytona Coupe's left" would surely put a smilke on my face :D:D:D

Thank you again
Yours
Neri

#407 Racers Edge

Racers Edge
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 15 February 2005 - 13:59

Hello Stuart,

In reference to your message that a few of the Exoto Cobra Daytonas are available for new subscription members..I called your subscription line, and it seems this is only available for a direct debit scheme. Could it be available for credit card payments as well?
If a credit card could be used, is there some sort of Promotional offer "code" that could be given to receive this offer?

(IDEA????... why not make a special offer of a subscription and free Exoto Daytona to our friends here at the Nostalgia Form...)

Regards,
Speedy...


P/S... Stuart, you would be a absolute hero if you convinced the publishers-marketing team to go back to a GREEN cover...Let me quote one of your Editors...reason: "because RED shows up better on the shelf."...are you kidding? Every magazine is in RED..the only way I ever found it was to look for a GREEN COVER, on the stands..but saying that...you are hard pressed to even find it in any colour at any news agent in the Uk, and forget about Europe or airports....
UK coverage is best found at WHS (sometimes)

Do I hear someone shouting "OCTANE".... :up:

#408 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,454 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 February 2005 - 14:01

Stuart: you and I are probably the only two people here directly involved in actually selling magazines - although at opposite ends of the food chain, in that I run a convenience store, so I'm at the sharp end (and yes - I DO make sure it's always in stock!). I think we probably both know that you've almost certainly lost the battle with the supermarkets: the recent price cuts on women's glossies and the cheaper TV comics, plus the continuing skirmishing between Nuts and Zoo will mean that when their buyers start looking at their margins, anything with an ABC of under about 50000 ain't gonna get a look in (unless they pay suicidally high rates for the space). Richard mentioned the launch of Grazia: if it gets a foothold that's just going to trigger another price war in the women's/celeb markets too. So everybody sells more magazines, but no-one makes any more profit!

To maintain your newsstand sales, I think you will have to go down the road of the independent promotion clubs and also approaching symbol groups like Spar, Londis and P&H, plus the individual larger regional and national chains. Promotional compliance tends to be better than in the supermarkets too!

#409 ian senior

ian senior
  • Member

  • 2,141 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 14:21

There seems to be some inconsistency in the supermarket's approach to stocking Motor Sport. My local Tesco is a fair size (not one of these converted ex-convenience stores) but I can never find Motor Sport there - although I can get Classic and Sportscar. But in those mega-sized Tescos, the ex-green 'un is there. Is this a deliberate policy on their part - to only stock in stores of a certaim size? I'm sure Haymarket would want it to be available in all Tescos - they are a very serious player in the magazine market.

#410 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,089 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 14:39

Please sort out Holland as well (I get it around the 24th :mad: )

And a video would do miracles (at least I always bought that one when I wasnt subscribing yet)


Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest


Green-blood - you have a PM. We'll try to get that sorted out for you.



#411 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,454 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 February 2005 - 14:46

That's down to the store grading system, Ian. Tescos are sensible enough to realise that they can't necessarily apply a "one size fits all" solution. For that reason, in two outwardly identical stores of similar size there may be significant differences in the amount of space allocated to different product groups. In one 30000 sq ft store, they might allow five linear metres for news: in another it might be eight, if historic sales justify it. For each size of fixture, they have a set magazine range. So Motor Sport might be on the eight metre plan, but not on the five metre: they have a policy of giving only full-face displays, so there's no room for manoeuvre, except by really special pleading with regard to particular local circumstances.

Those ABC ratings I keep going on about are their jumping-off point: C&SC sells twice as many as MS, so it's in the smaller store ranges.

#412 ian senior

ian senior
  • Member

  • 2,141 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 14:50

Originally posted by Vitesse2
That's down to the store grading system, Ian. Tescos are sensible enough to realise that they can't necessarily apply a "one size fits all" solution. For that reason, in two outwardly identical stores of similar size there may be significant differences in the amount of space allocated to different product groups. In one 30000 sq ft store, they might allow five linear metres for news: in another it might be eight, if historic sales justify it. For each size of fixture, they have a set magazine range. So Motor Sport might be on the eight metre plan, but not on the five metre: they have a policy of giving only full-face displays, so there's no room for manoeuvre, except by really special pleading with regard to particular local circumstances.


Fair point, thanks for letting me know. Actually, the full-face display policy is sensible, and I wish more shops would adopt it. I probably miss Motor Sport ( and lots of other things too) amongst the jumble of titles on the shelves in some of the smaller retailers.

#413 Placebo

Placebo
  • Member

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 15 February 2005 - 15:07

Stewart, please tell me that you'll be at Sebring, and I'll tell you that I'll subscribe there.

After many years with Motorsport through Eric Waiter (US distributor), along with spotty gift distribution if at all, I was reconsidering my subscription as I attended the Goodwood Revival in 2001. At the meet my friend subscribed (in person) and he got the premium there (Moss signed print) as well as receiving the VHS tapes over the past few years. My attention waned, especially as he would pass on the tapes for my viewing pleasure (if not to rub it in - EWA apparently no longer distributes the premiums at all). Feeling that I was getting taken advantage of, I let my subscription lapse. I've come back now, buying at the neighborhood Barnes and Noble or the specialist Autozone shop on Woodward Avenue. Despite the RED cover, I very much enjoy the magazine again, in fact, the Sierra/M3 article was absolutely wonderful ('modern' bashers aside).

Continued success to you and hope to see you represented at events in the US this year. Hmmm...Aston Martin DBR9 debut at Sebring in one month's time...:up:

Placebo

#414 Stuart_Forrest

Stuart_Forrest
  • Member

  • 92 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 15 February 2005 - 15:59

Crikey, go out for a late lunch and this place goes crazy. Thanks very much to Vitesse who has pretty much hit the nail on the head on why we (and indeed most other specialist hobby magazines) cannot be found within most Tesco stores. You're speaking a great deal of truth on how we should be promoting too, in fact that's what we're doing by and large.

As far as questions relating to subs gifts go, very simply we can't afford to fund the cost of the gift AND the overseas postage, and most people don't often want to pay for that themselves. We could simply put the price of the sub up to fund it, but we figure you're smart enough to realise that, if we did, you might as well go and treat yourselves to the gift and buy the sub at a cheaper price....

On credit card subs; no-can-do I'm afraid. We incentivise direct debit subscriptions because most people don't lapse for a few years after sign up. With credit card subs we have to chase you again 12 months later, which means that offering the gift in the first place was a bit of a waste of time.

Placebo - we won't, I'm afraid, be at Sebring. We will be at Amelia in a few weeks, as well as all of the Monterey events (concorso, Laguna, Pebble) and a number of other events through the year to one degree or another. We'll have Exoto models at those events.

Arjan - is that your sub or a newsstand copy? If the former, we need to do better. If the latter, that's about a week after we appear in the UK, so I don't think that we can get any quicker!

#415 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,815 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 15 February 2005 - 16:12

Stuart_Forrest: well the answer is yes! I am looking forward to the Stewart on Rindt article. The demographical guesswork was right, started getting the mighty green one back in 1965! God I feel old! However it would also be nice to get some comments from others who were around in the Rindt era especially those from within GLTL.

Keep up the good work and PLEASE make it Green again! :cool:

#416 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,089 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 16:19

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
Arjan - is that your sub or a newsstand copy? If the former, we need to do better. If the latter, that's about a week after we appear in the UK, so I don't think that we can get any quicker!


The former I am affraid.

#417 Neri Moreira

Neri Moreira
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 16:26

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
As far as questions relating to subs gifts go, very simply we can't afford to fund the cost of the gift AND the overseas postage, and most people don't often want to pay for that themselves.


Hehe Stuart

I understand your point (even if I gladly would pay for the postage if I had that option)

Even if I give up from the gift, dont expect to see me give up so easily on your visit to (my) Porto circuit :D:D:D

PS, I may well be the only one here that never complained about the Red cover (even if I would prefer it in BLUE) :D

Best Regards
Neri

#418 billthekat

billthekat
  • Member

  • 337 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 15 February 2005 - 17:24

Pardon me for even asking, but am I the only one who could absolutely, positively care less about some trifling trinket sent with the magazine? Who cares? Sorry, but I have to really wonder at times about why this sort of thing should even matter, much less get discussed..... Such things simply don't register on my radar. I still get my copies through EWA so not an issue in the first place to me.

#419 isynge

isynge
  • Member

  • 76 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 15 February 2005 - 17:47

Originally posted by billthekat
Pardon me for even asking, but am I the only one who could absolutely, positively care less about some trifling trinket sent with the magazine? Who cares? Sorry, but I have to really wonder at times about why this sort of thing should even matter, much less get discussed..... Such things simply don't register on my radar. I still get my copies through EWA so not an issue in the first place to me.


I don't know about this - in the event that the "trinket" is worthwhile it might serve to tip me from being a casual buyer to being a subscriber. In this instance, a model car doesn't do much for me (honestly can't think what I'd do with such a thing) but something else that I might find useful might well prompt me. At risk of going hideously off-topic the offer of a Rick Stein cookbook worked very well to get me to hand over the cash (or bank details) to subscribe to Olive. If the powers-that-be at MotorSport / Haymarket came up with something similarly desirable they might get a subscription out of me...

Advertisement

#420 Keir

Keir
  • Member

  • 5,226 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 15 February 2005 - 17:47

I liked the gifts!!

EWA could not ship the videos with the mag due to some county law forbiding it.

New Jersey is a cesspool of crooked politicians who wouldn't know a bad law if they read one or for that matter, if they could read at all!!

Christy Todd Witless is a perfect example!! I still want to run her over with a very heavy Chevy when she described herself as a struggling working mom who had trouble paying her car insurance!!! :mad:

Sorry for getting off topic, but the EWA thing just put me on the tangent!!

#421 Neri Moreira

Neri Moreira
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 17:53

Originally posted by billthekat
Pardon me for even asking, but am I the only one who could absolutely, positively care less about some trifling trinket sent with the magazine? Who cares? .......


Well....
It seems that some people care
I care :blush:
It also seems that it is people enough that cares, so that Motorsport/Haymarket also cares for the people that cares :)

OK, You dont care.
Thanks for taking your time to share it with us:up:

Best Regards
Neri

#422 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,454 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 February 2005 - 22:46

Originally posted by ian senior


Fair point, thanks for letting me know. Actually, the full-face display policy is sensible, and I wish more shops would adopt it. I probably miss Motor Sport ( and lots of other things too) amongst the jumble of titles on the shelves in some of the smaller retailers.

Full face display is a double-edged sword, unfortunately. On the one hand, it provides attractive displays, which sell more copies of the magazines which are selected. On the other, it means that the retailer's range is reduced. The trick from the shop's point of view is to maintain your sales by value from selling more copies each of fewer titles. It usually works, because the top titles are more heavily featured than before: the new range thus becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and is set in stone for all time.

However, there are quite a few retailers who don't play this game. TM Retail (Forbuoys/Martins/McColls) have actually been increasing their magazine ranges in the past couple of years, just as WH Smug have been reducing theirs! And there are lots of good independent newsagents who take pride in offering a comprehensive range: they can't give full face to every title, but they sure can pack 'em in!

Being blunt, you are more likely to find Motor Sport on the shelf in a large Martins/Forbuoys or in an independent than in Smugs or Asda/Tesco/Sainsburys/Morrisons.

No axe to grind, BTW - I used to work for TM, but am now with an independent c-store chain, which I deliberately haven't mentioned. Darren knows who though ..... :)

#423 Pils1989

Pils1989
  • Member

  • 1,111 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 15 February 2005 - 23:28

How long does it get for US subscribers to get their issue?
Got only the February one (Tin-Top?) a week ago...

#424 racer69

racer69
  • Member

  • 222 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 16 February 2005 - 01:25

Originally posted by D-Type
The Australians can look forward to a page of old Aussie pics!


Something to look forward to.

We generally get 'Motorsport' two months late down here, i'm hanging out for the 'Top 20 Touring Car Drivers' edition, which sounds like a great read.

I buy most issue's of it, and i have to say, while i preferred the the green cover, i find the 'new' Motorsport every bit as enjoyable as the previous model.

#425 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,833 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 16 February 2005 - 13:16

Just to note that the big WH Smith in Woking (Surrey) had MotorSport (last month's edition) in a special display rack by the pay desks along with only two other titles.

This was a bit worrying - the great unwashed might have got hold of a copy and then where would we be? What if they found out that there had been motor racing World Champions BEFORE Michael Schumacher?? :eek:

#426 Stuart_Forrest

Stuart_Forrest
  • Member

  • 92 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 16 February 2005 - 13:23

Originally posted by BRG
Just to note that the big WH Smith in Woking (Surrey) had MotorSport (last month's edition) in a special display rack by the pay desks along with only two other titles.

This was a bit worrying - the great unwashed might have got hold of a copy and then where would we be? What if they found out that there had been motor racing World Champions BEFORE Michael Schumacher?? :eek:


Glad that someone has noticed! The new issue doesn't go on sale in the shops until Friday of this week. Subscribers have this month received their copies very early.

#427 Mallory Dan

Mallory Dan
  • Member

  • 2,691 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 16 February 2005 - 15:18

I've given it a very quick glance, as I'm still in the middle of a load of late 1976 A/Ss, thanks Roger. However I'm looking forward to the Gethin and Chevron stuff, though I note the pic of the B40 shows it to have a distinctly 'non- B40' nose cone. Anyone any ideas how this happened ?

#428 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,815 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 17 February 2005 - 10:53

Danny boy! It's a hillclimb thing! It goes like this - A Chevron is a Chevron is a Chevron. Consequently if the nose-cone of your car gets, how should we say it, reduced to scrap all you do is find another that will fit. Unfortunately Historical Accuracy of active cars isn't on the top of the agenda! :eek:

#429 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 5,742 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 18 February 2005 - 18:35

As an incentive next wednesday's issue of 'Auto Express' in UK will have a free CD-Rom stuck to the outside giving a complete preview to the up coming GP season.

This is a weekly 102 page all colour, mainly road car magazine which has a cover price of £1.80 and just £1.00 if you subscribe by DD it comes by post on the morning of issue , from the Dennis publishing stable they didn't get to be the biggest selling motoring magazing in UK with 103,000 sales each week without knowing what they are doing.

#430 Ruairidh

Ruairidh
  • Member

  • 1,073 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 18 February 2005 - 20:21

Originally posted by RTH
As an incentive next wednesday's issue of 'Auto Express' in UK will have a free CD-Rom stuck to the outside giving a complete preview to the up coming GP season.

This is a weekly 102 page all colour, mainly road car magazine which has a cover price of £1.80 and just £1.00 if you subscribe by DD it comes by post on the morning of issue , from the Dennis publishing stable they didn't get to be the biggest selling motoring magazing in UK with 103,000 sales each week without knowing what they are doing.


But Richard - has Auto Express changed in the years since I left the UK?

As i remember it, it was a pile of tat in terms of written content, picture and caption focused. Staffed by cheap interns who could just as expertly be writing for "What Dishwasher"? Basically exactly what we don't want MS to become?

Or has it changed from the read once and throwaway rag I remember?

#431 dolomite

dolomite
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 18 February 2005 - 20:55

Originally posted by RTH
As an incentive next wednesday's issue of 'Auto Express' in UK will have a free CD-Rom stuck to the outside giving a complete preview to the up coming GP season.


And Autosport came with a free DVD this week....

#432 Stuart_Forrest

Stuart_Forrest
  • Member

  • 92 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 18 February 2005 - 20:59

Originally posted by RTH
As an incentive next wednesday's issue of 'Auto Express' in UK will have a free CD-Rom stuck to the outside giving a complete preview to the up coming GP season.

This is a weekly 102 page all colour, mainly road car magazine which has a cover price of £1.80 and just £1.00 if you subscribe by DD it comes by post on the morning of issue , from the Dennis publishing stable they didn't get to be the biggest selling motoring magazing in UK with 103,000 sales each week without knowing what they are doing.


I'm unsure of exactly what the point here is, although a number of the statements that you make do themselves offer explanations as to why Auto Express is able to offer a covermounted DVD (which, I must say, has been of questionable value in previous years when you actually look at it).

Auto Express is a magazine for readers of new cars, of which close to 6 million were sold in the UK last year, at an average price of around £12,000. Compare that to our little world (and I'm afraid gentlemen, that we do pale in comparison, enthusiastic as we are) where the most significant statistic is probably the Goodwood FOS. 150,000 people paying what, £25 a ticket, and with only a small proportion of those to be described as hardcore historic motor racing fans. As a percentage of total market then, Motor Sport actually does rather better in covering enthusiasts of its chosen subject matter.

Whilst this is nice to know, it does highlight the crucial point. Dennis may well "know what they're doing" but they're also operating in a market where the potential prize for advertisers is far bigger; the purchase of a new car. For this reason alone there are far bigger companies swimming around, and with far deeper pockets. In our market Haymarket is one of the biggest companies, and we're a minnow in comparison to Mercedes-Benz, Ford, or even some of the bigger insurance and finance companies.

If you really want DVD's about new cars, one of Haymarket's titles offers one with every issue. Much as I'd love to, our market isn't big enough to sustain them.



#433 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,454 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 18 February 2005 - 21:54

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest


I'm unsure of exactly what the point here is, although a number of the statements that you make do themselves offer explanations as to why Auto Express is able to offer a covermounted DVD (which, I must say, has been of questionable value in previous years when you actually look at it).

.... and which will undoubtedly be paid for by one of the major motor manufacturers as it features laudatory pieces about their products.

A few years ago, I whipped the free CD off the front of a copy of Auto Express which I was returning unsold (if I don't, the wholesaler's staff have 'em!). It included an assortment of F1 screensavers, all of which either failed to work and/or crashed my computer!

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
Auto Express is a magazine for readers of new cars, of which close to 6 million were sold in the UK last year, at an average price of around £12,000. Compare that to our little world (and I'm afraid gentlemen, that we do pale in comparison, enthusiastic as we are) where the most significant statistic is probably the Goodwood FOS. 150,000 people paying what, £25 a ticket, and with only a small proportion of those to be described as hardcore historic motor racing fans. As a percentage of total market then, Motor Sport actually does rather better in covering enthusiasts of its chosen subject matter.

I forgot to bring it home, but there's a WH Smith market survey on motoring magazines in the current issue of trade mag Retail Newsagent: IIRC "sport" as a sub-category accounted for just 3.6% of the total market.

Stuart: going off at a slight tangent - as I recall one of the criteria by which the new editor was to be judged was the ability to spell "of". Please tell me that the new editor can spell "Rüesch"!

#434 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,889 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 February 2005 - 22:09

Steve said:

Just filled in the on-line survey and am now awaiting my copy of Into the Red!



I just tried to do the same but the URL don't work..... :(

#435 David Lawson

David Lawson
  • Member

  • 872 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 18 February 2005 - 22:40

I completed the survey five minutes ago and it worked just fine.

David

#436 Pils1989

Pils1989
  • Member

  • 1,111 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 18 February 2005 - 22:47

The survey isn't in green and doesn't come with a free DVD or a die-cast : ;)

#437 Stuart_Forrest

Stuart_Forrest
  • Member

  • 92 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 18 February 2005 - 22:54

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Steve said:



I just tried to do the same but the URL don't work..... :(


One of the addresses printed in the magazine was wrong, missing a hyphen :mad: . This is the link; www.tgmc-surveys.co.uk/motorsport.htm

#438 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,889 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 February 2005 - 22:57

Thanks, Stuart!

#439 billthekat

billthekat
  • Member

  • 337 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 18 February 2005 - 23:19

How long will this survey be up and running? I ask since it might be a day or two or three before some of us in the USofA see a copy of the March issue.

Advertisement

#440 dolomite

dolomite
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 19 February 2005 - 20:23

Went shopping at Sainsburys in Bristol today, and I am pleased to report that the new issue of Motor Sport was on prominent display on the magazine shelves. :up:

#441 m.tanney

m.tanney
  • Member

  • 341 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 20 February 2005 - 23:18

Mr. Forrest,

  I am no longer a regular buyer/reader of Motor Sport. I had a subscription in my teens but delivery problems led me to drop it in favour of a standing order at my favourite magazine shop. The order stood for over 20 years. I have been just an occasional buyer since the late '90s. That was when it began to fail the cost/benefit analysis. The current price for one copy is $14.50Cdn. Add 15% sales and it's $16.67Cdn per issue. That's 7.15 Pounds Sterling, 10.37 Euros, $13.55US. Frankly, you started to lose me when you passed the $10 mark. Yes, I know, shipping costs have risen. I am sure that, if you take into account the cumulative rate of inflation, and the rise in the consumer price index over the last three decades, and the considerable rise in my income since the age of 14, Motor Sport is still a bargain. I have considered all of those arguments but when each new issue comes out, I look at it and ask, "is this really worth $16+ to me? Is it a keeper?" More often than not, the answer has been no. I am tempted to say that Motor Sport is pricing itself out of the Canadian market but I know that there are some very clever people at Haymarket and its Canadian distributor. I'm am sure that they have balanced the loss of readers that comes with each price hike against the increased revenue that it brings. Anyhow, it wasn't just the price. Frankly, there was a while when, even if there was an article on a subject that interested me, I really didn't find that I learned anything new from it. Having read the previous posts, and the positive reviews of your recent content, I will give it another try. Who knows? Maybe I will become a bit more frequent occasional buyer.
  Now to the real reason for this post: I would like to offer a suggestion - one that could make some money for Motor Sport and Haymarket and be of great benefit to the rest of us. Here is a link to a company that puts backissues of journals onto DVD-ROM. There are, I'm sure, many companies that do this. I'm just using this one as an example. You can, they say, "Profit from your archives today by selling your complete set of publications to date on CD-ROM or by subscription on the Internet to your members, libraries and the general public. This self funding project will enable you to recoup your initial investment in a very short space of time." DVD-ROMs of Motor Sport and Autosport? Now that is something I would be interested in. I am sure that many others would be too. It might be a handy thing for the editorial staff of both magazines to have around the office - fully searchable, etc., good for research and fact checking. I hope that you and your colleagues at Haymarket will give it some thought.

Mike

#442 Magee

Magee
  • Member

  • 379 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 21 February 2005 - 01:01

As a fellow Canadian, I definitely second Mike Tanney's proposal. Overseas mags are now too expensive, and putting it on a digital format is one alternative for those of us with shallow pockets. ;)

#443 m.tanney

m.tanney
  • Member

  • 341 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 21 February 2005 - 03:06

  I was really just talking about backissues. DVD-ROM is the only way I could ever get my hands on all of those Motor Sports from the 1920s or Autosports from the '50s. But doing an online/email edition is a really interesting idea, Mike. Four Small Wheels, the bible of 1/43rd scale modelling started an electronic edition a while back. GPM now charges 10 pounds per year for it, one third the cost of an overseas subscription. Sure, I prefer paper but.... Lest I sound cheap (okay, maybe I am a bit), I'm perfectly happy to pay for expensive books like Time and Two Seats, the Sheldon books, or Tom Johnston's Sports Car Racing in Western Canada. It's a matter of lasting value. DVD-ROMs of Motor Sport and Autosport would be expensive but probably very good value for the money.

#444 Stuart_Forrest

Stuart_Forrest
  • Member

  • 92 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 21 February 2005 - 07:51

Thanks for taking the time to point out this site to me. This is something we've already started to look at in fact - OCR software has come down in price and improved in quality to the point where a searchable archive is a real possibility. It will certainly be useful around the office, and would doubtless be of interest to readers too. Software exists to provide an online copy of the magazine already, but our feeling with Motor Sport is that this is a product to be enjoyed in paper form. The information that we provide is not time sensitive, and reading the magazine ought to be a ruminative experience. That's not something that can be said of an online version of any magazine at present.

On the cost on the bookstall in Canada - yes I realise that it demands quite a commitment financially. Once again though, it is worth checking out one or two of subscription offers. We don't have quite so many other companies handling the magazine between it leaving us and reaching you, so we can offer considerably better deals. At the risk of being seen to promote product here, I'll drop you a PM with some information. If you decide that you do enjoy the content, it might be worth considering a sub.

Best,

Stuart

#445 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
  • Member

  • 2,140 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 21 February 2005 - 08:38

I want the current edition in paper form, but I would be quite happy to come into your office and prostrate myself on the floor and beg if you would put all of the back issues of MotorSport onto a DVD-ROM!! I purchased a couple of years ago a run of magazines from 1955 to 1975, and they were a gold mine of information. I've little chance of being to affordably purchase the earlier issues, so all of that information is forever lost as far as I'm concerned.

#446 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,454 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 21 February 2005 - 16:47

Let me second that. I have a complete run from 1950-90 and then an almost complete set since the relaunch, plus a few odds from 1949.

But the pre-1950 paper copies are just too expensive. The reasons are obvious, of course: from early in WW2 there was severe paper rationing (in every issue readers were exhorted that they must order the magazine, since there was no guarantee they would find it on a newsagent's shelf - I get the impression they printed about ten spare copies a month!). Paper rationing lasted for five years after the war, so 1945-49 copies are rare too. No doubt thousands of Motor Sports, Motors, Speeds, Autocars and Light Cars perished in wartime salvage drives as well. Beaulieu have copies of all these, of course, but some of their Autocars and Motors especially are in terrible condition, simply through heavy use by researchers. The mid-30s ones are falling apart: AFAIK they have only one back-up set.

#447 billthekat

billthekat
  • Member

  • 337 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 21 February 2005 - 17:12

A reality that is beginning to dawn on the research and archival communities is that despite their dragging their feet to truly committing to digitizing their holdings, the old bugaboo of formats and such is not holding the water it once did. These fears and the hesitancy is not unwarranted since some facilities spent vast quantities of their resources to microfilm or microfilche their holdings only to have it become clear that this is not exactly what best suits the needs of their customers.

The acceptance of the Abode Acrobat portable digital format (pdf) seems to be the standard for the foreseeable future and is compatible for the conversion of materials already on mircofilm or microfilche. The wear and tear on the physical copies of magazines, newspapers, and so forth -- not to mention other such unpleasant items such as pilferage, misfiling, and so forth -- is a constant and on-going problem. More and more, the digital option is looking better and better to some folks who earlier resisted such efforts.

Would there be a market for such materials? I think that is quite a good question to which I have not a good answer since the question is more concerned with the size of that market than there simply being a market. The initial effort is time-consuming and somewhat costly, but once in a digital form, the material is pretty much "There." Plus, this has the advantage of actually creating new markets which may not have existed.

I would happily consider filling the voids in my collection using digital copies, as long as the price was generally reasonable. In some cases the only way researchers and research facilities will have have access to some materials is through digital media.

#448 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 21 February 2005 - 18:08

Originally posted by billthekat

I would happily consider filling the voids in my collection using digital copies, as long as the price was generally reasonable. In some cases the only way researchers and research facilities will have have access to some materials is through digital media.


I would certainly purchase sensibly-priced digital archive material. It's as much an issue of space as anything else, I quite simply don't have the room for much more paper ephemera.

The problem is the effort of transcription. I have the Complete National Geographic and the accompanying Maps collection on CD-ROM; it's a sufficiently popular publication that it was worth someone's effort to scan in every issue and to clean up the PDFs.

How many people would buy The Complete Motor Sport? Maybe a couple of hundred people? Maybe a thousand? Translate the effort needed to prepare it into an end-user cost and I fear it comes out looking almost prohibitively expensive.

#449 billthekat

billthekat
  • Member

  • 337 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 21 February 2005 - 18:30

Which is why our research capabilities in some areas (as in, let us be blunt, real history) have actually withered over the years rather than gotten better as we wrongly assumed and anticipated. As always, the issue is money and the lack of it.

Even the use of digitization as disaster recovery method has gotten lots of push-back in recent years by a number of institutions with holdings of similar materials of the sort that we are discussing.

#450 stuartbrs

stuartbrs
  • Member

  • 691 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 21 February 2005 - 23:48

Stuart,

I use my copies of Motorsport as a great reference for model building. The fantastic detail shots are a godsend for getting things right. What would be great though, would be some sort of online database so I could look up a car and find out which issues of Motorsport have articles on it, saves trawling through each issue for hours on end ( as enjoyable as that is ).
If you want someone to compile it for you, just send me copies of all the relaunched Motorsport issues and would be happy to help ;)