59 replies to this topic

[Dom77]

http://en.f1-live.co...817142632.shtml LOL

That is the claim of Bernie Ecclestone, who failed to have his desired 'medals' scoring system introduced this year due to a lack of support by the teams.

"If the medals system that I proposed would be in (effect) now, he (Vettel) would still be in the title fight," 78-year-old Ecclestone said.

yeah right his medal system wouldve had button champion by now. Theirs no way Vettel will win another 5 races

Edited by Dom77, 17 August 2009 - 16:06.

[FI-Addict]

I can't believe he still thinks he's right. The season would have more or less been over by Turkey. Red Bull and others would probably have conceded that the championship was out of reach and started on their 2010 car early leaving Button to continue winning with ease.

Current System: Button - 70, Webber - 51.5, Vettel - 47, Barrichello - 44 (Gap to 2nd - 18.5 points. Max remaining - 70 points)
Bernie's System: Button - 6, Vettel - 2, Webber - 1, Hamilton - 1, 16 Drivers - 0 (Gap to 2nd - 4 wins. Max remaining - 7 wins)

[CaptnMark]

He _is_ right.

This year it could happen that the "champion" is not the guy with most wins.

It's time to go the old scoring system that gives the winner more points.

[highdownforce]

Following Mr E reasoning we would have this standings:

Button (WDC) 126pts, 6x1st, 7x2nd and 1x3rd; Scored in all 17 occasions, better placed than Vettel 7x.
Vettel 117pts, 9x1st, 2x2nd and 1x3rd; Scored in 13 occasions, better placed than Button 10x.

Vettel would have 3 more wins, but would had failed to score on 4 occasions.
So, in a 9pts WDC difference, those 4 occasions in which Vettel didn't scored any points would be more meaningful than his 3 victories lead.

Edit: Vettel would have failed to score in 4 and not 5 occasions as I've previously suggested.

Edited by highdownforce, 17 August 2009 - 17:03.

[Willow Rosenberg]

He probably thinks Serena Williams should be #1, too.

[potmotr]

God, he really is a silly old fool.

[VoidNT]

Please don't tell Bernie that in NASCAR they determine the Champion by results in last 10 races of the season.

[HoldenRT]

Just be glad this guy doesn't get to decide the rules. Who cares what he says, whether it's about Nazi's or Max or sexist jokes. At least he got shut down when it came to the points system.

Once again though, it comes down to the money. He wants Vettel to win because he is the most marketable of the 3 potential WDC's. He refers to Vettel as "my boy". He says things to Horner like "have you got a good strategy for my boy today". IMO Vettel does a good job to keep a level head about it. But if Vettel were in Button's position he wouldn't be complaining.

[VoidNT]

He probably thinks Serena Williams should be #1, too.

...because she is Frank's daughter.

[highdownforce]

An interesting thing is, with the 10-6-4-3-2-1 point system, with the situation suggested by Ecclestone we'd have both Vettel and Button with 109pts, but Button would be WDC because of a 7th result.

Edited by highdownforce, 17 August 2009 - 17:18.

[fanboy]

Just be glad this guy doesn't get to decide the rules. Who cares what he says, whether it's about Nazi's or Max or sexist jokes. At least he got shut down when it came to the points system.

But he does decide the rules. He proposed the medal system and mosley rammed it through and it was only the teams who stopped it this year but for next year it will get rammed through.

[Mauseri]

Fans consider Ecclestone stupid.

[Villes Gilleneuve]

Fans consider Ecclestone stupid.

Um...the same Ecclestone who sold his rights to CVC for far more than it was ever worth?
The 24th richest man in England?

Regardless of how he makes F1 worse and worse to watch, more fans tune in.

There's a stupid party involved between fans and Eccelstone, but it ain't Bernie.

[FI-Addict]

If he wanted the winner to get a bigger reward then he should have stood by FOTA like he originally did (Ecclestone backs FOTA's points proposal). I would pick their proposed system (12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1) over the current one. I actually hope they revert to FOTA's points scoring next year. Just as long as we stay away from medals.

[highdownforce]

If he wanted the winner to get a bigger reward then he should have stood by FOTA like he originally did (Ecclestone backs FOTA's points proposal). I would pick their proposed system (12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1) over the current one. I actually hope they revert to FOTA's points scoring next year. Just as long as we stay away from medals.

But Button would be WDC also with this system.

[Dispenser89]

Silly old Bernie.

If he wanted the winner to get a bigger reward then he should have stood by FOTA like he originally did (Ecclestone backs FOTA's points proposal). I would pick their proposed system (12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1) over the current one. I actually hope they revert to FOTA's points scoring next year. Just as long as we stay away from medals.

Edited by Dispenser89, 17 August 2009 - 18:18.

[dutra]

he just forgot that if button wins 2 or even 1 more race the champ would be pretty much over by now...

[highdownforce]

he just forgot that if button wins 2 or even 1 more race the champ would be pretty much over by now...

2 wins would finish it.

[Brawn BGP 001]

I would love to go back to 9-6-4-3-2-1.

[scoob010]

If a driver dominates the early quarter to half of the championship like Button has this year, the medal system leaves enough wins in the bank for one driver to maybe catch him. Under the points system, we have two. If McLaren and Ferrari had done a little better earlier, we may have even had a few driver breathing down Buttons neck.

He need not worry about Vettel anyway. It's Webber that's going to catch Button.

[Mauseri]

Um...the same Ecclestone who sold his rights to CVC for far more than it was ever worth?
The 24th richest man in England?

Regardless of how he makes F1 worse and worse to watch, more fans tune in.

There's a stupid party involved between fans and Eccelstone, but it ain't Bernie.

Maybe he was smart once, but he has lost it. You don't need to be particularly smart to make loads of money, just smarter than average.

Edited by micra_k10, 18 August 2009 - 07:07.

[vmk]

Um...the same Ecclestone who sold his rights to CVC for far more than it was ever worth?

As they say, "a sucker is born every minute". He must have wooed them with his car salesman pitch.

[undersquare]

The stupid thing is carrying on year after year with 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 when everybody agrees that 12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1 would be better (if not ideal for some people).

And as for the championship being open, it's far easier for Vettel to catch up 23 points at just over 3 points per race than to win 5 out of 7 races, as any fool can see - except one apparently .

[Buttoneer]

He _is_ right.

This year it could happen that the "champion" is not the guy with most wins.

It's time to go the old scoring system that gives the winner more points.

So that the guy who binned it more times can win the championship instead?

[Captain Tightpants]

At least give the man some credit: he's trying to turn Formula One into an even bigger spectacle than it is now. Sure, he's not always right and his ideas aren't always thebest, but at least he's trying.

[undersquare]

At least give the man some credit: he's trying to turn Formula One into an even bigger spectacle than it is now. Sure, he's not always right and his ideas aren't always thebest, but at least he's trying.

For 50% of the entire income he gets credit for "trying"? His medals system would end the wdc by Monza.

No fool like an old fool goes the saying, how true it can be.

[slideways]

15 - 10 - 7 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

[Mauseri]

The stupid thing is carrying on year after year with 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 when everybody agrees that 12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1 would be better (if not ideal for some people).

I don't think that's worth sacrificing the principle of 10p for winner.

8/10 = 0.80, 6/10 = 0.60, 5/10 = 0.50, 4/10 = 0.40, 3/10 = 0.30, 2/10 = 0.20, 1/10 = 0.10
9/12 = 0.75, 7/12 = 0.58, 5/12 = 0.42, 4/12 = 0.33, 3/12 = 0.25, 2/12 = 0.17, 1/12 = 0.08

I'd propose 10-7-5-4-3-2½-2-1½-1-½. A bit more value for the win and also points for all top 10 to improve the ranking of midfield.

[undersquare]

I don't think that's worth sacrificing the principle of 10p for winner.

8/10 = 0.80, 6/10 = 0.60, 5/10 = 0.50, 4/10 = 0.40, 3/10 = 0.30, 2/10 = 0.20, 1/10 = 0.10
9/12 = 0.75, 7/12 = 0.58, 5/12 = 0.42, 4/12 = 0.33, 3/12 = 0.25, 2/12 = 0.17, 1/12 = 0.08

I'd propose 10-7-5-4-3-2½-2-1½-1-½. A bit more value for the win and also points for all top 10 to improve the ranking of midfield.

Well I think half points are a problem, personally, but if the choice was either stay as we are or go to 12-9-7 etc while we decide properly for 2011, which would you prefer?

This being a forum I was probably going out on a bit of a limb saying "everybody"

[Tenmantaylor]

15 - 10 - 7 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

Splits of 5,3,2,1,1,1,1 isnt bad at all altho the 1st to 2nd gap is prob too big and 7 points seems weird!

Ive always proposed 12 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (splits of 4,2,1,1,1,1,1)

We currently have splits of 2,2,1,1,1,1,1 which is obviously not right.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 18 August 2009 - 09:33.

[Captain Tightpants]

For 50% of the entire income he gets credit for "trying"? His medals system would end the wdc by Monza.

No fool like an old fool goes the saying, how true it can be.

That's not the only thing he does. He knows more about organising Grands Prix than anyone else, has the contacts and is a liason between CVC and the sport. Yes, he's ruthless, but that's the price we have to pay for someone who can do what no-one else can.

[slideways]

The problem with the current system is no step up in points from getting on the podium, and no step up in points from 3rd to 2nd to 1st. With the points I posted above:

2x wins + 1x DNF = 3x 2nds

1x win + 1x DNF > 2x 3rds

2x 2nds > 1x win + 1x DNF

1x win + 1x 3rd > 2x 2nds

[Ramses1348]

Ecclestone considers points system 'stupid'

Ramses1348 considers Ecclestone 'stupid'

[undersquare]

That's not the only thing he does. He knows more about organising Grands Prix than anyone else, has the contacts and is a liason between CVC and the sport. Yes, he's ruthless, but that's the price we have to pay for someone who can do what no-one else can.

He's losing it IMO. Yes I agree he has been brilliant in the past, and night races for example worked in Singapore when loads of people were saying it wouldn't, but more and more of what he says is too silly even for his Free Publicity trick. Look at the tone of the Autosport article. Look at the missing US race, Canadian race, timing of the Malaysia race which everyone except Bernie knew would be washed out. His statements on Silverstone, garbled responses to questions. More and more of his judgment is going, as it has to at nearly 80, and his medals project shows that.

Everything comes to an end, eventually.

[Mauseri]

Well I think half points are a problem, personally, but if the choice was either stay as we are or go to 12-9-7 etc while we decide properly for 2011, which would you prefer?

Well the points distribution of yours is slightly better IMO, but I don't think the current distribution is so different or bad in comparison that I'd bother changing it again and on top of that lose the 10p for winner.

This being a forum I was probably going out on a bit of a limb saying "everybody"

Surely you were not seriously underlining it.

[Snap Matt]

"If the medals system that I proposed would be in (effect) now, he (Vettel) would still be in the title fight," 78-year-old Ecclestone said.

23 points adrift, 70 points up for grabs. Did Bernie miss the last couple of seasons? The title may still go to Button, but it would be brave to make that prediction yet. It's definitely a three horse race for the rest of the European season at least, unless Red Bull decide to back one man.

[Orin]

If the points system is stupid he ought to be able to convince the majority to back his 'brilliant' idea. He seems unable to grasp that most people think the medals system is stupid. The medals system would force every team to use a rigid 1-2 driver line-up.

[undersquare]

Well the points distribution of yours is slightly better IMO, but I don't think the current distribution is so different or bad in comparison that I'd bother changing it again and on top of that lose the 10p for winner.

Surely you were not seriously underlining it.

No I wasn't that serious .

For me though one advantage of the points system in general is that it is so simple and compact, 10 points for a win, 12 or 15 it doesn't make much difference because everyone can see the totals. 10 is a bit easier I agree but it's less important I would say than having points below the top 6 and at the same time having a big benefit for winning. The alternative of half points makes it more complicated than 10->12 I would say, an extra two characters on screen or paper and three words to say it, as well as the arithmetic.

Take the current situation, say Jenson gets another 13.5 points in the rest of the season what positions does Vettel need to catch him? With half points it's quite a bit more difficult to work it out.

[Tuxy]

STFU Bernie.

How about increasing the disparity between first place and second? Done like dinner.

Take your medals and shovem!

[Atreiu]

Sorry mods, but just go **** yourself Bernie.

[Seanspeed]

At least give the man some credit: he's trying to turn Formula One into an even bigger spectacle than it is now. Sure, he's not always right and his ideas aren't always thebest, but at least he's trying.

At some point, you just gotta give up 'trying' when you clearly have no freakin clue what you're talking about.

[zoombie]

http://en.f1-live.co...817142632.shtml LOL

That is the claim of Bernie Ecclestone, who failed to have his desired 'medals' scoring system introduced this year due to a lack of support by the teams.

"If the medals system that I proposed would be in (effect) now, he (Vettel) would still be in the title fight," 78-year-old Ecclestone said.

yeah right his medal system wouldve had button champion by now. Theirs no way Vettel will win another 5 races

He is actually right!! Well sort of.... While Button have a near unbeatable leads of 6 wins, Vettel with 2, Webber on 1. Vettel is technically is in a better situation than Webber to be in the title fight. But we all knows that mathematically, Vettel actually has more chance with the pts than the medal system, I think he said something like that is because Vettel is the future (youngest German champ...next schumy etc...marketing) so if he was the team boss at Red Bull he would use the argument that Vettel with two wins, he is in a better position than Webber thus let's concentrate on Vettel but with the pts system its the other way around.

Edited by zoombie, 18 August 2009 - 13:10.

[slideways]

Bernie looks at people and sees variously sized piles of money.

[Seanspeed]

Bernie looks at people and sees variously sized piles of money.

[engel]

tbh long term I 'd prefer a system that rewards race wins more than consistency, anything to remove the stupid oh I m running 4th why risk anything, that's points in the bag mate mentality. But then again, I more interested in watching exciting races than I am watching a points table that produces one good media hype race at the end of the season. Wait ... wasn't that the whole point of motor racing? Making each race exciting not manipulating close championships ... Shock Horror

[zoombie]

tbh long term I 'd prefer a system that rewards race wins more than consistency, anything to remove the stupid oh I m running 4th why risk anything, that's points in the bag mate mentality. But then again, I more interested in watching exciting races than I am watching a points table that produces one good media hype race at the end of the season. Wait ... wasn't that the whole point of motor racing? Making each race exciting not manipulating close championships ... Shock Horror

i think the gap between the pts does that...but ppl are ppl we always like to complicate things...

[engel]

i think the gap between the pts does that...but ppl are ppl we always like to complicate things...

It's more a question of opinion, take an extreme example, Driver A wins 10 races and crashes out of 7, Driver B finishes 2nd in all 17 races ... under points Driver B is champion, in my personal opinion I 'd rather see Driver A be champion. But the old adage holds true, opinions are like a$$h0les, everybody got one and everybody's stinks ;)

[undersquare]

It's more a question of opinion, take an extreme example, Driver A wins 10 races and crashes out of 7, Driver B finishes 2nd in all 17 races ... under points Driver B is champion, in my personal opinion I 'd rather see Driver A be champion. But the old adage holds true, opinions are like a$$h0les, everybody got one and everybody's stinks ;)

I think we all want the same thing really, a winner we feel deserves it by being fast, good at overtaking, reasonably consistent, and good judgment. The points could be set up to give your driver A the championship (20-8-6- etc for example) but I suspect if we saw a driver crash out 7 times in a season we'd all be saying he's an immature idiot and doesn't deserve anything .

But it's hard to come up with a system that gives a big reward for both 3rd/4th and 1st. It's a question of how to divide up the cake.

[slideways]

It's more a question of opinion, take an extreme example, Driver A wins 10 races and crashes out of 7, Driver B finishes 2nd in all 17 races ... under points Driver B is champion, in my personal opinion I 'd rather see Driver A be champion. But the old adage holds true, opinions are like a$$h0les, everybody got one and everybody's stinks ;)

Sounds like Vettel and Webber as teammates in the 2004 Ferrari.

Edited by slideways, 18 August 2009 - 14:10.

[mattorgen]

That's not the only thing he does. He knows more about organising Grands Prix than anyone else, has the contacts and is a liason between CVC and the sport. Yes, he's ruthless, but that's the price we have to pay for someone who can do what no-one else can.

There are a tremendous amount of businessmen out there who CAN do what Ecclestone does. Running F1 is far, far more straightforward than say running a diversified conglomerate like GE. The difference with F1 is that no one else is (at the moment) in a position to do what Bernie does. Bernie may not believe that there are people being groomed to take over from him but CVC has other ideas about that (no surprise given that it invested $1,246m of its investors' money in it in 2006) - just ask Bruno Michel.

Edited by mattorgen, 18 August 2009 - 15:41.