156 replies to this topic

[Angry Onion]

Not really a thread about strange cars, more about cars you'd never expect to see run together in the same race, due to differences in speed or just general 'out-of-placeness'. I guess most such combinations come about due to the need to fill out fields. The most recent example would probably be the GT3 or Challenge class in ALMS, basically a bunch of Porsche 911 GT3 Cup cars added to the regulars to beef up the numbers.

Some other examples I can think of:

An annual race in Germany pitting F3 cars against lower classes such as Formula Ford or Formula Opel.

A Lancia Rallye 037 trying (and failing) to qualify for the 1994 Suzuka 1000. The same race saw cars ranging from a sole C-group Toyota 94C-V to a group of Honda Civic EG 6ixes.

The European GT4 Cup features the futuristic-looking Supersport class next to the GT4 regulars, like the Aston, the Corvette, or the Ginetta.

Weren't there instances of Mini Coopers starting in the World Sportscar Championship in the '70s? At Kyalami, for example...?

The various national GT championships tend to fill out their fields with what are basically touring cars, or even rally cars.

Monaco 1992 - an Andrea Moda starting together with the F1 cars

Across the Atlantic, there's the infamous 1969 Taladega 500 that saw NASCAR Grand Touring cars fill out the hole left by the boycott conducted by the majority of the Grand National regulars.

Jumping forward to 1981, the USAC Indycar Van Scoy Diamond Mines 500 with the participation of a group of USAC Silver Crown cars.

ARCA/USAC stock car driver Lee Raymond trying to qualify for an ASA stock car race in 1982 or so. The much heavier car stood no chance of making it in.

1993 (?) Copper World Classic Supermodified race at Phoenix - a sprint car starting from the back of the field, can't remember the name of the driver.

I look forward to your contributions

[f1steveuk]

Mismatched, but good racing, early 70s, little Fiats and big American cars in saloon car racing, the classic being the Crystal Palace race!!

[norton_mk2a]

The old 4 classes of the British Touring Cars, a bit of everything with a tin top racing in it

[ErleMin]

750 Motor Club Birkett 6 Hour Relay where, if there is a safety car out then the Austin Seven is driving flat out to keep up with the convoy. Its a race for teams of multi-seater cars from the "Mother Gun" Bentley through Hot Hatch touring cars to racing sports cars eg Chevrons. The club did once turn away John Foulston's team which included his Thundersports (Can-Am) Lola because of too much speed differential.

[D-Type]

A few well-known examples:

The Mille Miglia with everything from Isetta bubble cars and jeeps to out-and-out sports-racing cars. as the fastest cars started last, they had to pass all the slower cars. In his classic 1955 Mille Miglia report Jenks describes an Isetta being nearly blown off the road by the slipstream of the Mercedes.

More recently didn't a couple of NASCAR stock cars run at Le Mans?

A twin-engined Mini ran in the Targa Florio.

[Rob]

Rodger Ward driving a Kurtis Kraft midget in the US Grand Prix at Sebring in '59.

[Macca]

Jim Clark in a Lotus Cortina at Sebring in 1965.

The Silverstone Classic pre-65 F1s, with a Cooper-Bristol against a Lotus 24!


Paul M

[llmaurice]

Rodger Ward driving a Kurtis Kraft midget in the US Grand Prix at Sebring in '59.

The "Locals" were convinced it would run strongly against "those funny little Coopers".
It was a pathetic site although beautifully constructed . They felt that conering with the cutout button would work !

[Henri Greuter]

Rolex 24 hours of Daytona 1999

Agaisnt Ferrari 333SP's and R&S Fords: a Mitsubishi Eclipse.....



Henri

[Allan Lupton]

How about Tim Birkin's four-seater 4½ litre "Blower" Bentley in the 1930 French GP at Pau?
Came second, 3m 26.2s behind Etancelin's Bugatti after 396 km.!

[taylov]

How about the Nurburgring 1000 km races of the 1980s on the Nordschleife?

I went in 1982 to see the new Group C cars - Ford C100, Rondeau, Porsche 936C etc take on the Lancia Martini Group 6 cars and the Group 5 Porsche 935 turbos. What I wasn't expecting was what seemed like hundreds of Group 2 Golf GTIs, Opel Kadetts and Ford RS2000 Escorts many of whom spent most of the 6 hours as mobile chicanes.

Tony

[ensign14]

Emile Mathis' voiturette being stuck in the Grand Prix field in 1921.

The thing with the old Ring sportscar races was that a bog-standard 911 ended up winning the sportscar title for Porsche.

[2F-001]

Jim Clark in a Lotus Cortina at Sebring in 1965.

That doesn't strike me as particularly odd - surely it was the 3-hours race he ran in with the Cortina wasn't it? (Rather than the 12-hours, I mean.)
Or have I misunderstood?

[OfficeLinebacker]

Didn't AJ Foyt win some Indy-style race in a dirt track car once?

[Roger39]

How about the Ford GT40 against the Renault F1 car (that got smashed into the wall soon after the start!)

[alansart]

The Libre races at the PMC or 8 Clubs meetings at Silverstone in the 80's. If it had 4 wheels you could race it.



I entered one with my F750 car and got the fright of my life when I was overtaken by a 20's Blower Bentley

[Rob G]

Along the lines of Birkin's Bentley in the French GP, Caracciola's huge Mercedes looked out of place as he rumbled around Monaco among the much smaller and more nimble Bugattis in 1929.

[retriever]

Judy Lyons versus the rest of the F1 field at the 2009 Silverstone Classic

[Lotus23]

At LeMans in the early 60s, I can recall being both fascinated and horrified by the top speed differential: on the Mulsanne straight, little tiddler DB Panhards maxed out around 90 mph were being blown off by Ferraris doing twice that. In the fog, it must've been fun for all concerned!

[Allan Lupton]

The Libre races at the PMC or 8 Clubs meetings at Silverstone in the 80's. If it had 4 wheels you could race it.

I entered one with my F750 car and got the fright of my life when I was overtaken by a 20's Blower Bentley

Harry Bowler (who drove a 4½ Bentley) said something like " I don't mind being out-accelerated on the straight, but I do object when some cut-and-shut special nips past and spins in front of me after I've made all my braking arrangements".

At a similar event (but Nottingham SCC IIRC) Patrick Lindsay entered a F. Libre race in the Napier-Railton.

[Red Socks]

Judy Lyons versus the rest of the F1 field at the 2009 Silverstone Classic

That is very cutting.

[Lee Nicolle]

1970s Aussie Touring car fields which covered fron 1.3 class to 6 litre cars at places like Bathurst with full 55+ car fields. The then early racecam in Peter Williamsons Celica highlighted the difference as he blew by the smaller and slower cars as the bigger cars blew by him except over the top as they held him up. I still remember him hounding a Camaro and saying 'get out of my way you big ugly thing' though come to conrod and the Chev waved bye bye!

At local racing a mismatch was Sports Sedans matched against Sports Cars. Everything from Gp A tourers to Clubmans. That stopped after a couple of incidents which rightly scared the Sports Car blokes. The production Sports Cars were not really a problem but Clubman style Formula Libres were as they were on the front running pace and were bloody hard to see. And ofcourse being so light could way outbrake the bigger cars.

[Graham Clayton]

The 1984 Australian round of the World Endurance Championship at Sandown featured Australian sports sedans in amongst the Porsche 956's and other "pukka" WEC cars.

I also mentioned in the "Most Unsuitable Saloon Cars" thread the English production racing spec Rover Vitesse that took part in the FIA Group A Bathurst 1000 race at 1985.

Edited by Graham Clayton, 19 August 2009 - 02:03.

[Ray Bell]

Actually, Graham, that Rover was running in Group A trim...

We didn't adopt Group A here until after that.

[lowdrag]

As has already been said, the Course a l'Index at Le Mans with tiddlers against the monsters. Even now watching the Le Mans Classic, to see the DB Monopole and a long nose D type on the track together is frightening. To put matters in perspective, in 2008 the Panhard Lapped in 15 minutes and the D type in 5 so the poor Panhard was lapped three times every lap! Now where else could you find a statistic like that?

[Bondy]

Back in circa 1987, Superkarts were included in the Racing and Sports Car class at Symmons Plains.... So you had Superkarts, ,Vees, Group A Sports Cars, Formula 2 etc...

[Ray Bell]

Surely that's not the ultimate performance of the car?

Even if it only topped 75mph, it would surely lap at better than 50...

[tonyA110]

Three instances spring to mind.

1. A chap with a Healey 3000 wrote to Autosport in the mid 60s complaing that because he turned up late at Brands Hatch one weekend, he was forced to practice with the Formula Ford 1600 heats and that they had held him up. A few weeks later the same chap turned up in the Healey and tooled around at the rear of the BOAC 500 Mile/1000km all day being frequently lapped by the 917 Porsches anf the 512 (or were they P4s then)

2. There is a picture somewhere on the web of a Mini Moke being passed by what looks like a Ferrari 250LM apparently in a race, I think taken in South Africa.

3. In an inter-motor club Scalextric evening about 30 years ago I beat a guy in the final who had a proper home built slot racer with extra sticky tyres, a hot motor and all of the latest tweaks with my standard Scalextic Lotus (JPS) 72 bought from the local toy shop on the way home that afternoon. That was it's only race!

TonyA110

[ensign14]

The 72 was really something special.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by tonyA110
.....There is a picture somewhere on the web of a Mini Moke being passed by what looks like a Ferrari 250LM apparently in a race, I think taken in South Africa.....

Carrara...

The first 12-hour race at Surfers Paradise.

Edited by Ray Bell, 19 August 2009 - 14:50.

[Ian Smith - Diz]

Judy Lyons versus the rest of the F1 field at the 2009 Silverstone Classic

That is very cutting.

No, what would be very cutting would be if it stated "Judy Lyons versus the rest of the field at ANY race"
She is so slow, she is downright dangerous. If her old man wasn't involved, the clubs wouldn't accept her entry.

Not her, but at Brands last Sunday, a driver pal was watching a few laps of the Formula Jedi race and the tail end Charlie got lapped after four laps. He commented that it shouldn't be allowed as it was dangerous. A few laps later - after being lapped a few times by the field - he took somebody out and straight on into the wall. A friend of mine broke his neck in that wall last year.
Speed differential is a problem.

Having stated the above - as an old man, some thirty odd years ago I wasn't quite so sensible.
I once ran a race meeting at Aintree with not enough of one type of car and too many of another. So the programme contained a race for over 1000cc Special Saloons. The upto 1000cc Special Saloons I put in with the Vintage Cars [ginormous Bentleys etc.] I spent the week leading up to the meeting, until the chequered flag fell wetting myself that some poor bloke in a fibreglass Mini would be squashed as flat as a cigarette paper. Fortunately all went well on the day.

Edited by Ian Smith - Diz, 19 August 2009 - 20:51.

[AAA-Eagle]

Adolfo Schwelm's Jaguar XK120 among F1 cars at Pescara in 1950.

The early 60s South African races, such as 1962 Rand & Natal GPs: http://www.lotus7reg...uk/springbk.htm

[Angry Onion]

Here's another one: a 1958 IMCA stockcar race on an oval in Sedalia, Missouri was won by sportscar driver Loyal Katskee in a... Testarossa.

[giacomo]

Le Mans 1970: Porsche 917 LH vs Ginetta G12.

[Graham Clayton]

There were a couple of "match" races at the Windsor RSL Speedway in which cars from two different categories raced against each other.

In 1955, a stock-car raced against a speedcar, while in 1964 a hot rod raced against a speedcar.

[gkennedy]

Carrara...

The first 12-hour race at Surfers Paradise.

http://www.racingspo...6-08-21-015.jpg

[Ian G]

..beat me to it. The 1968 6 Hour was also a bit of a farce with a NSU Prinz entered and the Datsun Racing Team distributing Photo's of the 2000 Sports Car "leading"(PR for being lapped) Matich's SR3 and the Geoghegans Ferrari. Nissan/Datsun must have been stung by the criticism as they turned up the next Year with two R380A's complete with 6 Factory works drivers and duly had a 1-2 in a depleted field.(Lotus Elan was 3rd.)

Edited by Ian G, 20 August 2009 - 23:33.

[Peter Leversedge]

In New Zealand in the "good old days" of the '50 '60s & '70s we at times had mixed fields of different cars
The Nelson beach races had a mixture of sedans, coupes, sportscars and racing cars all in one race [ usually handicap races ]as well as scratch race for the seperate types of cars
I remember starting over lap behind a car off go in a 6 lap race
In the same race one could have a Fiat 500, Mini, Auglia 105E [1500 engined ], Ford V8 Coupe, Zephyr, Chyrsler Valiant, Chev Coupe [with a Corvette under the hood] MG, Daimler SP250, Lotus 7, several NZ Built single & two seater Specials and even at one stage a Alfa Romeo P3 [ex Grand Prix car fitted with a Jaguar engine ]

[Lee Nicolle]

There were a couple of "match" races at the Windsor RSL Speedway in which cars from two different categories raced against each other.

In 1955, a stock-car raced against a speedcar, while in 1964 a hot rod raced against a speedcar.

Graham you forgot the all time Aussie classic match race! Gene Welch's Fisher Camaro sedan funny car against Bill Wigzell in the 'Sudenly' supermodified at Rowley Pk in about 1974. Bill won that episode and Gene ended up upside down later in the night in the sedan feature.It was not his best night!

[mahleu]

Mini's running against 5L Perana Capris and Ford Galaxies in the 70's in SA. The mini's would keep up around the circuits.

[h4887]

Le Mans 1970: Porsche 917 LH vs Ginetta G12.

The Ginetta of Jack Wheeler and Martin Davidson was a 'DNA'

[jatwarks]

Tony Lanfranchi giving Sid Taylor's F5000 Lola a run out in a clubby at Brands Hatch prior to the season opener.

He ran in a Formula Libre race against Formula Fords, Production Sports and their like; I've never seen so much arm waving from drivers ,before or since, as they tried to hand-signal him through the crowds every couple of laps!

[Rob]

Is the Rothmans 50,000 worth a mention here?

Lets see, off the top of my head, there were F1, F2, F5000, Can-Am, Sports cars and the odd Clubman I believe.

[timf5000]

The Libre races at the PMC or 8 Clubs meetings at Silverstone in the 80's. If it had 4 wheels you could race it.



I entered one with my F750 car and got the fright of my life when I was overtaken by a 20's Blower Bentley

That's me in my F5000 March 76A with my hand up. Just waiting to get into position....

[bsc]

In 2006 Martin Short (Radical SR9 LMP2) and Earl Goddard (Reynard LMP500) competed in the BRDC Secretary's Challenge a collection of more historic cars, such as a brace of MG Bs, a Chevrolet Camaro and a Ford Mustang. They finished first and second after starting the 15 lap race two laps down on the leaders.

The following year Martin Short and Stuart Hall shared a Pescarolo LMP1 against opposition including a MG B, a Mallock Mk. 11 and a Ford Cologne Capri. They finished the 12 lap race second after a driver change.

Edited by bsc, 21 August 2009 - 19:55.

[D-Type]

A team of 600cc NSU Prinz's finished the 1959 Argentine Gran Premio de Carretera in a race that also featured the highly modified Ford and Chevrolet coupés similar to those raced by Fangio a decade earlier

[lochalsh]

quote name='Ray Bell' date='Aug 20 2009, 00:46' post='3800721']
Carrara...

The first 12-hour race at Surfers Paradise.
[/quote]

Here are some photos I took in 1967 which illustrate what this topic contains.


http://i59.photobuck...EGANLOTUS39.jpg

[Kingsleyrob]

I know they've been alluded to earlier but not mentioned specifically - the Minis and Ford Falcons sharing the grid at Oulton Park during my early visits in the sixties always brought a smile to my (then) young face

Rob

[Jim Thurman]

Didn't AJ Foyt win some Indy-style race in a dirt track car once?

Not quite, but he did pull his dirt car off the trailer and put it on the pole at Milwaukee in August 1965 and went on to finish 2nd.

Likely the last time a front engined car led an Indy Car race.

[alansart]

That's me in my F5000 March 76A with my hand up. Just waiting to get into position....

And that's me in my "slicked" Formula Ford wondering what you are doing

I just loved those meetings, but having one of the slowest cars in the race meant I spent most of the time watching my mirrors.