Continental Divide Trans Am, 1967
#1
Posted 25 August 2009 - 02:29
The picture is of Roger Penske, a mechanic, and a third gentleman pouring fuel into the Penske Camaro. My memory tells me the gent with the gas can was George Follmer. Unfortunately his back is to the camera, and I have no other picture of him. It would be more logical for that to be Donohue, but I have no picture of him at that race either.
Any help out there?
Ron Shaw Photo
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#2
Posted 25 August 2009 - 04:44
Here is a picture taken in the pit/paddock at Continental Divide Raceway, near Denver, CO, at the first Trans Am race held there on 27 August 1967.
The picture is of Roger Penske, a mechanic, and a third gentleman pouring fuel into the Penske Camaro. My memory tells me the gent with the gas can was George Follmer. Unfortunately his back is to the camera, and I have no other picture of him. It would be more logical for that to be Donohue, but I have no picture of him at that race either.
Any help out there?
Ron Shaw Photo
Most likely not George as he only ran 1 race in 67 and that was for Roger but it was at Mid Ohio, I used the Freidman book Trans Am
There was no Can Am race that weekend so he may have been hanging out but seems odd he would be doing work for free but who knows.
#3
Posted 25 August 2009 - 20:26
As (thin) evidence I point to the fact that at Mid-Ohio where Follmer had his only start in the Penske Camaro, the car wore #16 instead of #6, the number worn by Donohue's car.
Also, both Donohue and Follmer were teamed in the Penske Lolas in the USRRC series, Donohue wearing #6, Follmer #16.
As further evidence, I present the following picture, also taken at Continental Divide, 27 August 1967. The car Roger Penske is signalling wears car #16.
Ron Shaw Photo
Number more easily seen on this crop/enlargement
Ron Shaw Photo
Edited by RShaw, 27 August 2009 - 16:04.
#4
Posted 26 August 2009 - 04:41
[Union Oil Co photo]
#5
Posted 26 August 2009 - 12:04
Henry
#6
Posted 26 August 2009 - 16:45
Interesting to see those barrels along the pit straight. Weren't they involved in the accident and subsequent lawsuit that effectively shut down CDR for years? Apparently they were filled with water, and a car hit one, throwing it into pit workers or spectators with fatal results.
Frank
#7
Posted 26 August 2009 - 18:10
Tom
#8
Posted 26 August 2009 - 18:26
Ron:
Interesting to see those barrels along the pit straight. Weren't they involved in the accident and subsequent lawsuit that effectively shut down CDR for years? Apparently they were filled with water, and a car hit one, throwing it into pit workers or spectators with fatal results.
Frank
Exactly. I was at the race where the barrel incident occurred, although I did not witness it. It was an SCCA National, as I recall. The barrels were supposed to be full of water but on the day in question had been only partially filled. Whether that had anything to do with subsequent events is arguable.
In any event a car struck the row of barrels, throwing one of them back over the cockpit and decapitating the driver. Whether other barrels or the car caused the injuries in the pits I don't know. As can be imagined the track owner, Sid Langsam, and the SCCA were sued. What the outcome of the lawsuit(s) was, I don't know, but I expect somebody ended up paying a bunch of money. Langsam had enough of the racing business and shut down the track, ultimately selling it for residential development. As you doubtless know, at least a portion of the track site is still vacant, although a part of it has been developed.
I have a box of slides labelled "1969 CDR F/A" and I will have them scanned to CD and see what is on there. I remember walking around the paddock after the incident. Any attempt at crowd control had evaporated and all I had to do to get in the pit area was walk through the unmanned gate.
RonS.
Edited by RShaw, 26 August 2009 - 18:36.
#9
Posted 26 August 2009 - 22:14
Tom
#10
Posted 27 August 2009 - 15:27
Ron Shaw Photo
#11
Posted 27 August 2009 - 15:35
I think Follmer did more than hang out. I think he drove the car. Maybe not in the race, but at least in the Sunday morning practice session when the pictures were taken. The SCCA results list certainly says Donohue finished 8th in the Penske Camaro.
As (thin) evidence I point to the fact that at Mid-Ohio where Follmer had his only start in the Penske Camaro, the car wore #16 instead of #6, the number worn by Donohue's car.
Also, both Donohue and Follmer were teamed in the Penske Lolas in the USRRC series, Donohue wearing #6, Follmer #16.
As further evidence, I present the following picture, also taken at Continental Divide, 27 August 1965. The car Roger Penske is signalling wears car #16.
Ron Shaw Photo
Number more easily seen on this crop/enlargement
[img]http://i169.photobuc...s/u207/ronzi_67
Donohue and Follmer were not team mates in the 1967 USRRC. Follmer drove for John Mecom. They were teamed in the 1967 Can-Am.
I am sure you just misstyped when you state that the later photos were taken in 1965 since the original question referenced the 1967 event.
I would suggest that the figure dumping the fuel might be Al Holbert, but he is not tall enough and is not thin enough.
#12
Posted 27 August 2009 - 15:42
Ron Shaw Photo
#13
Posted 27 August 2009 - 16:20
Donohue and Follmer were not team mates in the 1967 USRRC. Follmer drove for John Mecom. They were teamed in the 1967 Can-Am.
I am sure you just misstyped when you state that the later photos were taken in 1965 since the original question referenced the 1967 event.
I would suggest that the figure dumping the fuel might be Al Holbert, but he is not tall enough and is not thin enough.
========================================================================
Thank you for the corrections. I have changed the year in my original post.
I am not ready yet to give up on the Follmer thing. I still think the guy with the gas can is Follmer. It seems to me there was some reason Donohue was not at the track for practice on Sunday morning, and Follmer sat in. Or it could be that I am constructing and embellishing a scenario that never happened. I have looked at that picture many times over the years, and from day one I have identified that fellow as Follmer. Doesn't make me right, and that is why I posted the picture in the first place. The fact remains that Follmer had a close relationship with the Penske team that year, driving the Camaro at one race, and teaming with Donohue in another series. Then there is the business about the car number ...
#14
Posted 27 August 2009 - 16:56
As I recall from Competition Press & Autoweek at the time, it was a piece of lashing material - a steel band - that held the barrels together that whipped around and struck Mulhall in the helmet - inflicting the fatal head injuries. IIRC, the result of this was the SCCA - and I believe other organizations - requiring different lashings for barrels, etc.I believe that you are right. Jim Mulhall in a Halibrand Shrike was the unfortunate driver who hit the barrels, and it cost him his life, as well as one or two bystanders. I believe this happened in the 1969 F-5000 race. CDR was in operation in 1970, so any shutdown would have occured later. I imagine if this did result, the time involved was as the case wound its way through the lengthy legal system. I imagine that Ron can add to this.
I only mention this as their are so many reports of drivers being "decapitated" that are nothing more than folklore and the number of true incidents is mercifully few.
And, yes, it was the SCCA Formula 5000 championship. The first fatality in series history, and I believe one of only two.
#15
Posted 02 September 2009 - 17:46
I take this to mean that he (GF) doesn't believe he is the fellow holding the gas can.
Sam Posey I believe had/has lighter blondish or brown hair, so I don't think it is him. Don't know about Bucknam, but he did have black hair I believe.
Thanks everyone for your input.
RonS.
PS - There is no evidence to establish that the gas can tipper and the driver of #16 Camaro were necessarily one and the same, other that my apparently imperfect memory.
Ron Shaw Photo
Edited by RShaw, 02 September 2009 - 21:34.
#16
Posted 05 September 2009 - 17:03
Ron Shaw Photo
#17
Posted 05 September 2009 - 17:05
Ron Shaw Photo
Edited by RShaw, 05 September 2009 - 17:10.
#18
Posted 05 September 2009 - 17:09
Ron Shaw Photo
#19
Posted 05 September 2009 - 17:20
The winner of the event, Jerry Titus, driving another Mustang, was noted as driving a "privately entered" car. However earlier in the year Shelby was running the Titus car as well, so it is not clear to me whether Titus was a Shelby driver at CDR or not.
Ron Shaw Photo
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#20
Posted 05 September 2009 - 17:28
Ron Shaw Photo
#21
Posted 05 September 2009 - 21:06
Ron Shaw Photo
#22
Posted 06 September 2009 - 05:55
http://rmvr.com/category/transam/
Apparently...
- Mark Donohue ran #16 that weekend
- #15 Cougar was Peter Revson
- #14 Porsche was Bert Everett
Vince H.
#23
Posted 07 September 2009 - 17:43
#24
Posted 07 September 2009 - 17:59
The Fred Opert/Tony Adamowicz Porsche 911 which placed 4th in the U2L class.
Ron Shaw Photo
I showed this to Tony Adamowicz. This is part of his reply:
"Hi Gil,
Thank you for the heads up. Unfortunately it is incorrect photo description of the 911. This was Bert Evert's car # 14. It was a new factory lightweight and maintained by Bob Holbert's garage in Pa. The trailer is Opert's. I actually got to drive it cross country while campaigning Fred's Valvoline sponsored 911. We shared the ride out to the west coast with Bert's car.
The Opert 911 livery had equal full length front to back color application of Valvoline's red/white/ blue. was not properly maintained and engine valve guides completely worn out, I brought he car back to F-O racing in Paramus , NJ and finished my relationship with his group....................
Cheers ! a2z
Tony a2z Adamowicz"
#25
Posted 18 September 2009 - 19:12
The car finished an atypical 8th, outrun by 3 Mustangs, a Cougar, two Alfas, and a Porsche. This was by far the worst finish of the year for this car, absent dnfs at Daytona, Bryar, and Las Vegas.
The class regulations were somewhat restrictive, requiring an almost complete stock interior, which accounts for the presence of a standard Camaro upholstered door panel, including the swinging vent window, angled to blow fresh Rocky Mountain air on the driver. Also visible are the roll cage braces and a rather anachronistic wood-rim steering wheel. The roll cage had been a relatively new "unfair advantage" innovation installed after the Bryar dnf, and credited, along with a rear anti-roll bar, by Donohue with putting the Camaro on an equal footing with the competition.
The wood rim steering wheel appears to be a remnant of a weekend of continuous problems suffered by the Camaro, culminating in the dismal 8th place result.
Chevrolet engineer Paul VanValkenburgh, in his book "Chevrolet Racing: Fourteen years of Raucous Silence, 1957-1970" says this regarding the Camaro victory at Marlboro, MD on 12 August:
"The 1967 season was lost by then, convincingly so after the next race, where they failed a transmission, a fuel tank, a tire, and the steering wheel."
The "next race" was Continental Divide.
#26
Posted 18 September 2009 - 19:29
This is a photo of the interior of the Penske/Donohue Camaro, taken 27 August 1967 at Continental Divide Raceway.
The car finished an atypical 8th, outrun by 3 Mustangs, a Cougar, two Alfas, and a Porsche. This was by far the worst finish of the year for this car, absent dnfs at Daytona, Bryar, and Las Vegas.
The class regulations were somewhat restrictive, requiring an almost complete stock interior, which accounts for the presence of a standard Camaro upholstered door panel, including the swinging vent window, angled to blow fresh Rocky Mountain air on the driver. Also visible are the roll cage braces and a rather anachronistic wood-rim steering wheel. The roll cage had been a relatively new "unfair advantage" innovation installed after the Bryar dnf, and credited, along with a rear anti-roll bar, by Donohue with putting the Camaro on an equal footing with the competition.
The wood rim steering wheel appears to be a remnant of a weekend of continuous problems suffered by the Camaro, culminating in the dismal 8th place result.
Chevrolet engineer Paul VanValkenburgh, in his book "Chevrolet Racing: Fourteen years of Raucous Silence, 1957-1970" says this regarding the Camaro victory at Marlboro, MD on 12 August:
"The 1967 season was lost by then, convincingly so after the next race, where they failed a transmission, a fuel tank, a tire, and the steering wheel."
The "next race" was Continental Divide.
Thanks for the photo. I am having 1/43rd models built of the 1967. 1968, and 1969 SUNOCO Camaros. I was told that their interiors and the interiors of most of the other make Trans-Am cars were gray. Was this car's interior a one-off, or did the gray apply to the later year cars?
Gil
#27
Posted 18 September 2009 - 21:49
Thanks for the photo. I am having 1/43rd models built of the 1967. 1968, and 1969 SUNOCO Camaros. I was told that their interiors and the interiors of most of the other make Trans-Am cars were gray. Was this car's interior a one-off, or did the gray apply to the later year cars?
Gil
I'm sorry, I don't know about the interior color(s), other than that the one in the picture appears to be black. It could be that the rules on interior materials became more liberal in later years, resulting in the typical sheet metal interiors typically seen in racing cars.
#28
Posted 18 September 2009 - 23:33
Edited by beighes, 18 September 2009 - 23:35.
#29
Posted 19 September 2009 - 03:43
That Alan Green camaro is alive and well and being vintage raced on the west coast. Have not seen the Campbell/Jones camaro back in action.
Robert Barg
#30
Posted 19 September 2009 - 05:09
I'm curious as to which original T/A car you crewed on later? Who was the orignal driver, and the later ones? Do you know if this car is alive in the vintage race world? Where was the car based out of? Do you have some involvement with vintage racing now?
That Alan Green camaro is alive and well and being vintage raced on the west coast. Have not seen the Campbell/Jones camaro back in action.
Robert Barg
Robert,
I don't have the original owners name (I'll dig that out tomorrow), but the story is , it came from Chevrolet via Alan Green Chevrolet. The "legend' is that the car went to Hatch Chevrolet (later Joe Bockman Chevrolet) in Mountain View, Ca. (long gone), came with all the "in the trunk options, was on the showroom floor for a handful of days, the became a race car. I crewed for John Treder. He purchased the car in August 1969. Plans for West Coast T/A events went away when he broke an ankle in 1970 (I believe). We ran the car until 1980-1981, it was a couple of years into GT1. Bloated, heavy & impossible to compete with the early tube frame cars, we sold it as a roller for $1500, then went into F/Atlantic. The car went into the great black hole. Supposedly was modified for drag racing, but I've never been able to track it down. At least once a year, I'll spend some time trying to locate it, unfortunately no luck so far. Part way through the last year JT had a big shunt @ Laguna's T8. A Datsun 240z was parked sideways at the apex.......................& not a flag in sight. The Datsun was narrowed, the Camaro shortened, never to handle well again. I'll see what else I can dig out of my archives.
Steve
#31
Posted 19 September 2009 - 14:22
By that time the CDR car had been run off a mountain by the Craig Fisher folks, along with the tow vehicle and trailer. At Donohue's insistence the wrecked car was rebuilt and subsequently appeared at the Las Vegas round, driven by Bob Johnson, Fisher's driver, along with the new lightweight driven by Donohue. Craig Fisher's original Camaro is reputed by some to have provided the raw material for an acid-dipping process that resulted in the Penske lightweight. Others seem to indicate that the lightweight was made from a new tub.
The lightweight Camaro was retained by the Penske team and updated to a '68 and used in that years races, but thusfar I have found no info about the fate of the original Penske Camaro. Did the Fisher team end up with it?
RonS.
#32
Posted 19 September 2009 - 16:28
Robert,
I don't have the original owners name (I'll dig that out tomorrow), but the story is , it came from Chevrolet via Alan Green Chevrolet. The "legend' is that the car went to Hatch Chevrolet (later Joe Bockman Chevrolet) in Mountain View, Ca. (long gone), came with all the "in the trunk options, was on the showroom floor for a handful of days, the became a race car. I crewed for John Treder. He purchased the car in August 1969. Plans for West Coast T/A events went away when he broke an ankle in 1970 (I believe). We ran the car until 1980-1981, it was a couple of years into GT1. Bloated, heavy & impossible to compete with the early tube frame cars, we sold it as a roller for $1500, then went into F/Atlantic. The car went into the great black hole. Supposedly was modified for drag racing, but I've never been able to track it down. At least once a year, I'll spend some time trying to locate it, unfortunately no luck so far. Part way through the last year JT had a big shunt @ Laguna's T8. A Datsun 240z was parked sideways at the apex.......................& not a flag in sight. The Datsun was narrowed, the Camaro shortened, never to handle well again. I'll see what else I can dig out of my archives.
Steve
My father won the GT1 National Championship in 1980 in a 1969 Camaro. The Camaro was originally built by John and Burt Greenwood for Chevrolet. Bill Petree, driving for John and Burt (and Chevrolet) won the 1969 A Sedan National championship in the car. The car next went to J.Marshall Robbins, who campaigned the car in the Trans Am and in SCCA nationals. Marshall won the SCCA Rookie of the Year in the car. Bill Spangler was the chief mechanic for Marshall at the time. The car next went to Carl Shafer. Carl won the SCCA Rookie of the Year in the car - and qualified for the A Sedan Runoffs with the car, winning the Central Division A Sedan points championship. Carl went on to win the runoffs - but won driving a new car he built just prior to the runoffs - not the 1969 car. The car next went to my father, who raced it in Central Divison SCCA nationals for 10 years. Over the next ten years we won the SCCA Central Division points championship several times, and many many SCCA nationals in A Sedan and then GT1 (including the RA June Sprints several times). In 1980 , we won the GT1 National Championship with it. An interesting side note - the original "Chevy Power Book" contains drawings indicating how to modify and reinforce the suspension of a 1969 Camaro for road racing purposes. The drawings are from this car.
Scott Dunbar
Edited by S A Dunbar, 12 January 2011 - 19:47.
#33
Posted 19 September 2009 - 20:10
Steve
Edited by beighes, 19 September 2009 - 20:32.
#34
Posted 21 September 2009 - 21:15
Here is a picture taken in the pit/paddock at Continental Divide Raceway, near Denver, CO, at the first Trans Am race held there on 27 August 1967.
The picture is of Roger Penske, a mechanic, and a third gentleman pouring fuel into the Penske Camaro. My memory tells me the gent with the gas can was George Follmer. Unfortunately his back is to the camera, and I have no other picture of him. It would be more logical for that to be Donohue, but I have no picture of him at that race either.
Any help out there?
Ron Shaw Photo
Ron,
The guy pouring gas into the car is Bill "Murph" Mayberry. The guys I have seen most often on Penske's Camaro pit crew in '67 besides Murph were Leroy Gane, Bill Scott, Tom Greatorex (after Bob Johnson was added as a driver) and the other fellow in your photo (whose name I do not know). I have a shot or two of him at the Kent 300 T/A race and it looks like the name on his shirt might say George but I can't say for certain. I hope this helps.
I remember reading that George Follmer was at the CDR Trans-Am race as an "interested observer" but it never said anything about him getting into a car. I think that was in the issue of Competition Press that covered the race.
It is a wonder that steering wheel lasted as long as the 8th race of the season. I have seen some other pics of it and it appears to have been made out of a billet piece of aluminum (including the hub) and the wood grip was added. The thickness of the metal was not adequate and it was proven at this race. After this they put on a Grant style 3-spoke and had no further problems.
Yes, the Penske interiors were all black in '67. They even still had the headliner installed in '67, as did the Bud Moore Cougars.
Thanks for posting the pictures from this race. They are quite enjoyable to look at.
-Jon
#35
Posted 22 September 2009 - 18:54
Many thanks for providing some hopefully definitive info about Gas Can Man. I must say Murph Mayberry is about the last person I would have thought to be Gas Can Man. Donohue said in his book that Mayberry was replaced by Roy Gane as the Camaro mechanic after the Bryar race. From the rather critical things he had to say about Mayberry previously, I assumed the reason for the replacement had to do with perceived performance, then here he shows up two races later on the Penske/Fisher crew again, and in street clothes yet. You're sure that's not Follmer, and/or that it is Mayberry?
I am also gratified to have corroboration that Follmer was at that race, especially since he himself doesn't think he was there.
On the steering wheel thing, I figured that the wood rim wheel was the replacement for whatever broke. Who knew Donohue was such a traditionalist, and that was what he had been using all along?
RonS.
Ron,
The guy pouring gas into the car is Bill "Murph" Mayberry. The guys I have seen most often on Penske's Camaro pit crew in '67 besides Murph were Leroy Gane, Bill Scott, Tom Greatorex (after Bob Johnson was added as a driver) and the other fellow in your photo (whose name I do not know). I have a shot or two of him at the Kent 300 T/A race and it looks like the name on his shirt might say George but I can't say for certain. I hope this helps.
I remember reading that George Follmer was at the CDR Trans-Am race as an "interested observer" but it never said anything about him getting into a car. I think that was in the issue of Competition Press that covered the race.
It is a wonder that steering wheel lasted as long as the 8th race of the season. I have seen some other pics of it and it appears to have been made out of a billet piece of aluminum (including the hub) and the wood grip was added. The thickness of the metal was not adequate and it was proven at this race. After this they put on a Grant style 3-spoke and had no further problems.
Yes, the Penske interiors were all black in '67. They even still had the headliner installed in '67, as did the Bud Moore Cougars.
Thanks for posting the pictures from this race. They are quite enjoyable to look at.
-Jon
#36
Posted 22 September 2009 - 19:24
PS - It has been brought to my attention that the posting of this picture may have clouded the issue of the identity of Gas Can Man.
The fellow in this picture is the unidentified mechanic from the Gas Can Man photo, and was posted in case any one can identify him.
Edited by RShaw, 22 September 2009 - 21:51.
#37
Posted 24 September 2009 - 04:33
Yes, I am firm in my belief that it is Murph Mayberry pouring in the gas. It is the correct physique, haircut, etc. Also, not everything in Donohue's biography is 100% correct but I do believe that Roy Gane was given a more prominent role around the time you are saying. It does not mean that Mayberry was necessarily booted off the team. He was part of Penske's crew when they won their class at Sebring in '68. (I've got some photos but need to figure out how to post them like you have).
The wood wheel is not a stock GM wood wheel and it was fabricated if you see it close up. The center cap said "Think" on it. The hub is a big hunk of billet aluminum. This was on the car at the Daytona 300 the previous February.
The unidentified mechanic above was also present at the Marlboro Trans-Am. I'll see if I can get him identified.
Did you notice the spoiler on the back of the Penske Camaro? It is definitely taller than a stock rear spoiler and they did not bother trying to match the yellow pinstripe as seen on the trunk lid. I went back and looked at the Marlboro pics of the car and I believe this tall spoiler was on the car at that race also. I'd never noticed this before.
-Jon
Jon,
Many thanks for providing some hopefully definitive info about Gas Can Man. I must say Murph Mayberry is about the last person I would have thought to be Gas Can Man. Donohue said in his book that Mayberry was replaced by Roy Gane as the Camaro mechanic after the Bryar race. From the rather critical things he had to say about Mayberry previously, I assumed the reason for the replacement had to do with perceived performance, then here he shows up two races later on the Penske/Fisher crew again, and in street clothes yet. You're sure that's not Follmer, and/or that it is Mayberry?
I am also gratified to have corroboration that Follmer was at that race, especially since he himself doesn't think he was there.
On the steering wheel thing, I figured that the wood rim wheel was the replacement for whatever broke. Who knew Donohue was such a traditionalist, and that was what he had been using all along?
RonS.
Edited by Aero Z-28, 24 September 2009 - 04:40.
#38
Posted 25 September 2009 - 10:24
Ron,
Also, not everything in Donohue's biography is 100% correct
-Jon
I was wondering if you might expound on this a bit. Are you referring to The Unfair Advantage (autobiography) or Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence At Speed (biography)? I know how thorough Michael Argetsinger was in his tireless research for writing Technical Excellence At Speed. I'd be interested in the specifics. Thanks for your help.
Brian Brown
#39
Posted 25 September 2009 - 18:00
RonS.
Ron,
Yes, I am firm in my belief that it is Murph Mayberry pouring in the gas. It is the correct physique, haircut, etc. Also, not everything in Donohue's biography is 100% correct but I do believe that Roy Gane was given a more prominent role around the time you are saying. It does not mean that Mayberry was necessarily booted off the team.
-Jon
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#40
Posted 25 September 2009 - 19:30
-Jon
I was wondering if you might expound on this a bit. Are you referring to The Unfair Advantage (autobiography) or Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence At Speed (biography)? I know how thorough Michael Argetsinger was in his tireless research for writing Technical Excellence At Speed. I'd be interested in the specifics. Thanks for your help.
Brian Brown
Edited by Aero Z-28, 25 September 2009 - 19:31.
#41
Posted 25 September 2009 - 19:38
No, it was Donohue in the car at CDR. Fisher would have been in the "original" car for Modesto but for the towing accident, which damaged it heavily.
I suspect you are right that Gane was most likely not at CDR because he was busy preparing the new one for Modesto and time was of the essence.
-Jon
Mayberry's presence at CDR does make sense from a certain viewpoint. Roy Gane may well have been preoccupied with the construction of the "lightweight" car at that time, and not available at CDR. In addition, to depend again on Donohue's statements in the Unfair Advantage book, Penske apparently "gave" the original Camaro to Fisher to run on the west coast events. Presumably this included the CDR event, although that was not made clear since Donohue does not mention CDR at all. If Gane was not there, then Mayberry could have been pressed into service since he was intimately familiar with the original Penske Camaro, which Fisher's crew would not have been.
RonS.
#42
Posted 25 September 2009 - 21:34
Brian
#43
Posted 26 September 2009 - 06:19
Here's a Pete Biro photo of Donohue celebrating his T/A class victory at Sebring in 1968 with Gane and Mayberry. While you can't see Murph's face in either your photo or this one, I think they represent a reasonable match as the same person. Do you agree?
-Jon
Here is a picture taken in the pit/paddock at Continental Divide Raceway, near Denver, CO, at the first Trans Am race held there on 27 August 1967.
The picture is of Roger Penske, a mechanic, and a third gentleman pouring fuel into the Penske Camaro. My memory tells me the gent with the gas can was George Follmer. Unfortunately his back is to the camera, and I have no other picture of him. It would be more logical for that to be Donohue, but I have no picture of him at that race either.
Any help out there?
Ron Shaw Photo
#44
Posted 26 September 2009 - 16:25
This is a photo of the interior of the Penske/Donohue Camaro, taken 27 August 1967 at Continental Divide Raceway...
#45
Posted 26 September 2009 - 16:35
#46
Posted 26 September 2009 - 16:59
-Jon
#47
Posted 26 September 2009 - 17:08
-Jon
Edited by Aero Z-28, 27 September 2009 - 05:31.
#48
Posted 26 September 2009 - 19:42
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Fisher drove the race at CDR, only that Fisher's team may have been providing the support for the car. This makes sense if you accept the premise that Penske gave Fisher the original Camaro and he hauled it west from Marlboro or Penske HQ or whereever, stopping off in Colorado to run CDR (with Donohue driving), then got as far as Reno before running it and the tow rig off a mountain. In the meantime the Penske crew was building the lightweight car, subsequently finished in time for Modesto.
What is your opinion of the claim that Fisher's Camaro provided the raw material for the Penske lightweight? That would explain why that car disappeared from the series after Penske and Fisher joined forces.
Thank you for posting your series of photos. I agree that the Biro picture of Mayberry at Sebring in '68 does look very much like the CDR Gas Can Man.
The CDR race was a minor skirmish in the '67 Trans Am season, but many things about the Penske effort at that race were puzzling. They are starting to come into focus.
RonS.
Ron,
No, it was Donohue in the car at CDR. Fisher would have been in the "original" car for Modesto but for the towing accident, which damaged it heavily.
I suspect you are right that Gane was most likely not at CDR because he was busy preparing the new one for Modesto and time was of the essence.
-Jon
#49
Posted 27 September 2009 - 06:03
I have never seen a member of the Fisher/Godsall team work as a pitcrew member for Penske. I don't think that happened.
Craig Fisher told me personally that the Camaro returned to PA after the CDR race and that he and Tom Greatorex were the two that hauled the car from PA to the West Coast before crashing it near Fernley, NV. It was not on a mountain but a poorly lit new section of Interstate that came to a junction where the accident happened.
Pat Ryan's car does have the serial number of Craig Fisher's original Camaro on it. I discovered this because I have copies of Craig's original paperwork and have looked closely at Pat's car. I discussed this with Pat. There is a very clear lineage of chain of ownership all the way back to the Sebring T/A race in '68, which the car won. Roy Gane has looked at Pat's car and pointed out to Pat many things on the car that he recognized as his work. When Pat told him that the body had Craig Fisher's serial number on it, Gane purportedly said he was "not surprised to hear that". There is a Camaro that was driven by Gordon Dewar in Canada in late '67 and '68 that is alarmingly close in appearance to Fisher's car with the exception of paint but Dewar has passed on and it is extremely difficult to find out any details on the car from others who may have been involved with it. I do believe Pat's car is the one that won at Sebring in '68 based purely on the fact that it is very easy to trace the car from there to Pat's current ownership.
Out of curiosity, did you attend other T/A races besides the one at Continental Divide?
-Jon
Jon,
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Fisher drove the race at CDR, only that Fisher's team may have been providing the support for the car. This makes sense if you accept the premise that Penske gave Fisher the original Camaro and he hauled it west from Marlboro or Penske HQ or whereever, stopping off in Colorado to run CDR (with Donohue driving), then got as far as Reno before running it and the tow rig off a mountain. In the meantime the Penske crew was building the lightweight car, subsequently finished in time for Modesto.
What is your opinion of the claim that Fisher's Camaro provided the raw material for the Penske lightweight? That would explain why that car disappeared from the series after Penske and Fisher joined forces.
Thank you for posting your series of photos. I agree that the Biro picture of Mayberry at Sebring in '68 does look very much like the CDR Gas Can Man.
The CDR race was a minor skirmish in the '67 Trans Am season, but many things about the Penske effort at that race were puzzling. They are starting to come into focus.
RonS.
#50
Posted 27 September 2009 - 06:17
Here's a picture from the Kent 300 Trans-Am race at the end of the '67 racing season. It shows Tom Greatorex (Bob Johnson's friend and mechanic) hoisting the gas can and the other crew member is the same unidentified guy from the Continental Divide race. I can't quite make out the name on his shirt.
-Jon