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WMSC hearing: Piquet's 2008 Singapore crash intentional?


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6190 replies to this topic

Poll: Flav, Pat or Piquet Jr? (490 member(s) have cast votes)

Someone must be telling the truth. Which one is it?

  1. Flavio- We never talked about it... (18 votes [3.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.63%

  2. Pat Symonds- We talked about it. It was Piquet's (88 votes [17.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.74%

  3. Nelsinho- We talked about it. It was their idea... (390 votes [78.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 78.63%

Vote

#1 Atreiu

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:39

Reginaldo Leme has just given out that there's a very strong rumour of independent investigations implicating Renault in the Piquet's 2008 Singapore crash. It seems the whole act was planned to work in Renault's favour.

I know this has been discussed and done before and many see it as a conspiracy theory, but I'm only reposting it because the word now comes form Reginaldo Leme, a very respected journalist who has covered F1 for over 30 years. Reginaldo says the mood in the Renault garage has been terrible and he expects it all to go public this week. He also mentioned there evidence had been gathered that implicated Briatore.

Well, let's wait and see. But I honestly wouldn't put this beyond Flavio.

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#2 pRy

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:46

Piquets good bye gift to Flavio perhaps?

#3 Atreiu

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:46

Sweet, huh?
By the way, I meant latest, not newest rumour.

#4 fed up

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:51

Piquets good bye gift to Flavio perhaps?


my thinking too

#5 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:56

Read the 4th paragraph

http://www.grandprix...ft/ft21745.html

#6 ensign14

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:58

Well, I hope there is an investigation. The very first result of it ought to be to ban the safety car. The stupidity of wiping out a hard-earned advantage through a compliant team-mate is all too evident in scenarios like this.

#7 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:03

Surely there'd be a full radio transcript if that was the case. Or a year later would it be deleted, in which case you could make a logical accusation that can neither be proved or disproved?

#8 potmotr

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:05

Piquet has just been sacked and is spewing bile like no man's business.

If he could stick Flavio with an accusation that he was told to crash to help Alonso win I think he'd have done it by now!

#9 Korben82

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:15

Newest rumour, Piquet's never sitting in a F1 car again! Let's all rejoice! :D

#10 Lazarus II

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:40

It was all the work of a "junior engineer"  ;)

#11 Jambo

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:42

It was all the work of a "junior engineer" ;)


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#12 Anomnader

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:45

oh, dear, if they wipe out Renault results, how would that effect the championsip of last year?

#13 Dudley

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:47

That's not a new rumour, people were saying that everywhere within about 5 seconds of the crash.

And it's almost certainly as much bollocks now as it was then.

#14 Anomnader

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:49

That's not a new rumour, people were saying that everywhere within about 5 seconds of the crash.

And it's almost certainly as much bollocks now as it was then.



Well, the new part seems to be that Piquet is spilling the beans

Meanwhile, Nico's former classmate at primary school has failed to stay the course. On this subject, though, I had expected Renault to have thought twice about firing Nelson Jr mid-season, for a variety of interesting reasons which would have been likely to attract the attention of m'learned friends if I had been rash enough to reveal them here. Let's just say that the Piquet/Renault story is almost certainly unfinished, with some potentially fascinating and possibly even scandalous turns in the road still to come.



#15 Jambo

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:52

They do have past history...

#16 Just waiting

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 13:58

My oh My, you sure know how to arrnge things,
you do it so well
,

At the time, i thought it a rather convienent crash, very well timed, but then well.....maybe a mere coincidence, so forget it.

Then today, I watch Kimi pass three or four cars off course, bump someone and NO INVESTIGATION, so who what???????---maybe someone did not just want to bother....too much.

So it does seem the investigation was warranted back then, and today would be a little late.

And there must have been some sort of pre-arranged signal or it would have been immediately apparent----otherwise radio traffic like this might have rang a bell somewhere: "ah, Nelson....Freddie needs a little help, could you crash out real hard at next corner and bring out the safety car? Also be sure to do it right, block the road, it will not do any good to end up off the racing line and all crumpled up somewhere safe......"

Freddie to Flavious: "Thanks, flav, and I will wear that thong for you back in the hotel room instead of Nelson......" :kiss:

#17 eoin

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:01

This was discussed a lot last year. If it is true then Flavio was a clown to fire Piquet the way he did. It also needs to be dealt with behind closed doors as this is the last thing that F1 needs atm.

#18 primer

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:02

How can Nelson Piquet Little accuse Flavio and Renault of wrongdoing while at the same time exonerating himself of any blame? I mean, we all know he is bitter because his slow loser ass got fired, but this is taking spitefulness to a whole new level. :lol:

#19 RodrigoL

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:07

Is this incident paving way for Rosberg's first win? I'm happy for the lad, but it's a terrible way to get it :well:

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#20 johnmhinds

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:15

So I take it Piquet never wants to return to F1.
Nobody will hire the guy if he doesn't learn to shut his trap.

"Hi guys, did you just hear i'm the idiot who crashed my car on purpose last year? So how about paying me millions to drive your car"

#21 Just waiting

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:23

So I take it Piquet never wants to return to F1.
Nobody will hire the guy if he doesn't learn to shut his trap.

"Hi guys, did you just hear i'm the idiot who crashed my car on purpose last year? So how about paying me millions to drive your car"

That is what you call a real team player and would be just the sort to hire,


(except that he blew the whistle, so maybe you got to plan for that with say an extended payment schedule over 20 years, with a special penalty cluase if ever seen close to a whistle..........)

#22 johnmhinds

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:35

He's not going to be much use as a team player if you know he's going to shout his mouth off as soon as he leaves your team.

Edited by johnmhinds, 30 August 2009 - 14:35.


#23 dank

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:48

Is there a link to any of this online?

(other than the grandprix.com hint that is)

#24 primer

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:52

Is there a link to any of this online?

(other than the grandprix.com hint that is)


Grandpricks.com would be a more accurate description for that man and his website.

#25 mursuka80

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:53

oh, dear, if they wipe out Renault results, how would that effect the championsip of last year?


Im sure it doesnt affect it anyway.They just take points away and no one gets more than they got.

#26 wj_gibson

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:54

Grandpricks.com would be a more accurate description for that man and his website.


True, Saward and Doodson seem to be oddly embittered individuals, especially when you consider that their role in life (i.e. what they get paid for) is something that the rest of us would more or less kill to be able to do. Maybe they felt they were destined for more (e.g. major newspapers; radio stations; even TV) and have never recieved their dues in the manner of a James Allen.

#27 pduncle

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:55

If it turns out to be intentional kudos to Piquet for making it look so real (i guess he's useful for something)


#28 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:55

How can Nelson Piquet Little accuse Flavio and Renault of wrongdoing while at the same time exonerating himself of any blame? I mean, we all know he is bitter because his slow loser ass got fired, but this is taking spitefulness to a whole new level. :lol:

If the past few days of my life have taught me anything, it's that small men often have trouble letting go of big ideas. And when that is taken from them, they tend to revert to "If I can't have it, no-one can" mode.

#29 Anomnader

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:56

If it turns out to be intentional kudos to Piquet for making it look so real (i guess he's useful for something)



well, he was very experienced in crashing, I assume that helped make it look convincing. :up:

#30 Joe90

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:57

Please rememeber when Alonso's tyre flew away at last Piquet's race...

#31 Mauseri

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 14:58

Well, I hope there is an investigation. The very first result of it ought to be to ban the safety car. The stupidity of wiping out a hard-earned advantage through a compliant team-mate is all too evident in scenarios like this.

Safety car has effectively been banned with the control speed. You don't get the same advantage anymore. The pre-2007 SC rules were not good, but the 2007-2008 rules were a joke.

Edited by micra_k10, 30 August 2009 - 14:59.


#32 Ivanoff

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:04

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns21777.html

#33 Buckethead

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:09

What? One old man talking silly and everyone here is going nuts.

#34 Joe90

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:17

They have all car data on record, and the radio talk also. Can a team adjust the car to deliberately break under some circunstamce, even without the interference of the driver ?

#35 wj_gibson

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:20

It is very well-known that Piquet was instructed to "push" just before his accident. But an instruction to push is not the same as an instruction to crash.

To validate the claim being made now, it would have to be shown quite conclusively that Piquet was specifically instructed to crash his vehicle. Given that we know teams have tapped into their rivals' radio transmissions in the past, I would have thought that it would have come to light long before now if that was indeed the case.

#36 femi

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:22

The story is gathering legs. This may turn out to not only be Piquet's gift to Renault, but Max'x too.

#37 wj_gibson

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:26

The story is gathering legs. This may turn out to not only be Piquet's gift to Renault, but Max'x too.


The story in Star Wars also gathered "legs". That does not make it any more of an accurate reflection of reality.

#38 fifi

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:30

It is very well-known that Piquet was instructed to "push" just before his accident. But an instruction to push is not the same as an instruction to crash.

To validate the claim being made now, it would have to be shown quite conclusively that Piquet was specifically instructed to crash his vehicle. Given that we know teams have tapped into their rivals' radio transmissions in the past, I would have thought that it would have come to light long before now if that was indeed the case.



unless it was discussed earlier and push was the way they could get round the radio transmissions

#39 ensign14

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:33

It is very well-known that Piquet was instructed to "push" just before his accident. But an instruction to push is not the same as an instruction to crash.

To validate the claim being made now, it would have to be shown quite conclusively that Piquet was specifically instructed to crash his vehicle.

Maybe Piquet has the secret code book. "Push" = "crash". "The nightingale sings in Berkeley Square" = "Sutil has gained six-tenths on Buemi." It's quite specific.

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#40 potmotr

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:35

Maybe Piquet has the secret code book. "Push" = "crash". "The nightingale sings in Berkeley Square" = "Sutil has gained six-tenths on Buemi." It's quite specific.


Nelson, select Option 13.

You'd think trying to crash would look quite weird.

Remember when Schumacher tried to park it at Monaco in 06?

Looked dodgy as hell.

#41 Just waiting

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:35

It is very well-known that Piquet was instructed to "push" just before his accident. But an instruction to push is not the same as an instruction to crash.

To validate the claim being made now, it would have to be shown quite conclusively that Piquet was specifically instructed to crash his vehicle. Given that we know teams have tapped into their rivals' radio transmissions in the past, I would have thought that it would have come to light long before now if that was indeed the case.

Very simple---Flavio knew from past experience that everytime he told Nelson to "push", nelson would respond by going too fast and crashing, spinning and other antics, so Falvio, knew that when he said it at Singapore, that nelson would do another repeat......

Clear and deliberate cheating by Flavio, hollering push, when he knew it would make nelsonho crash out :smoking:

#42 wj_gibson

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:39

Maybe Piquet has the secret code book. "Push" = "crash". "The nightingale sings in Berkeley Square" = "Sutil has gained six-tenths on Buemi." It's quite specific.


But IMO extremely unlikely.

#43 P123

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:42

Piquet crashed and spun a lot. Will all of these need to be investigated, or was he just a little bit sh*te at Renault?

#44 Phucaigh

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:53

Probably did happen and it was why Flavio was making out there was some conspiracy this weekend at Spa with some teams doing better than expected, he knows what is coming........

#45 Just waiting

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:59

Nelson, select Option 13.

You'd think trying to crash would look quite weird.

Remember when Schumacher tried to park it at Monaco in 06?

Looked dodgy as hell.

No, as I said above, whenever he hollerred "push" nelson would try to go faster but lose it all---much to disgust of everyone,.....so this time, he hollered and nelson did what was wantedat this particular moment....

"weird?' personally i doubt if nelson had the talent to bang it up all that well, if he tried to do it....

#46 brabham bt50

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 16:03

Grand Prix.com reports FIA is investigating the case

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns21778.html

#47 postajegenye

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 16:07

How could they prove this?
It could be proven with the radio transmission, but doesn't FIA monitor the team radios ? In that case they would have punished Renault a year ago if they had found anything suspicious.

#48 Taxi

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 16:09

"It's Show time guys. Now that Fernando pitted lets ask our other driver to have an accident so that maybe, maybe, he does not get hurt and/or hurt someone else and maybe, maybe, the safety car gets in the right moment, and maybe , maybe, the other teams have a problem in the pit, and maybe, maybe our other 23 year old rich driver son of a 3 times world champion will maybe, maybe be stupid enough to do it. Maybe we can have the chance to win a race. That maybe, maybe could possibly work, right felows?"

#49 Slartibartfast

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 16:09

Do I believe Flavio has the necessary 'ethical flexibility' to arrange for one of his cars to cause a crash to benefit his other car? Yes.

Do I believe Flavio has the necessary tactical acumen to successfully arrange such a crash? :rotfl: (that's a 'no' by the way)

If anything, he was trying reverse psychology on Piquet:

Flavio: "Tell him to go faster."
Symonds: "We did that already."
Flavio: "And..."
Symonds: "He's two tenths slower that before."
Flavio: "Tell him he must overtake some cars."
Symonds: "Tried that too, he lost three places."
Flavio: (Shrugs, waves hands) "Oh, tell him to put it in the wall, then!"
Symonds: "....Bugger me, he did!"


Alternatively, "Push"..."Crash" - how is Nelson's hearing?

Edited by Slartibartfast, 30 August 2009 - 16:11.


#50 Anomnader

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 16:09

How could they prove this?
It could be proven with the radio transmission, but doesn't FIA monitor the team radios ? In that case they would have punished Renault a year ago if they had found anything suspicious.


I think whats started this is that Piquet has gone and let the cat out of the bag and prompted the independent investigation.