Jump to content


Photo

I did a 5:34 Lap of the Nordschliefe in R-factor in the 2007 McLaren Merdcedes...here it is...how fast do you think FA could do it?


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 DanDectis

DanDectis
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 14 September 2009 - 16:13



I know I could easily shave another 10-15 seconds off of this lap just clearing up the few mistakes I made, learning the 3rd sector better, and trimming out more wing to bring the top speed up to 195 or better instead of 188. It got me thinking though, I am driving Alonso's old car here, how fast do you suppose the man himself could do it?

I'd reckon under 5 minutes, maybe not by much, but I bet he could do 4:50... :drunk:

Hell of a track to drive this car on BTW...

Advertisement

#2 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 8,304 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 16 September 2009 - 17:42

Mighty impressive lap Dan and well edited :wave:

Which version of the Ring do you use?

Its hard to say how much quicker a real F1 car would go. Youre probably in the ballpark, alot of the Rfactor F1 mods ive driven are ultimately alot faster than real F1 cars due to irregularities in the physics that can be exploited. One thing never changes though no matter what youre driving, the ring is a fierce competitor!

Edit: finished writing before the lap finished - always set 7th for Dottingehohe! Couldve gained 2-3 seconds there with 200mph ;)

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 16 September 2009 - 17:44.


#3 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 17 September 2009 - 22:21

Dan,
That was really fun to watch...but you got Tarzan completely wrong, which cost you at least half a sec. You should have had a sub 5 min time easily.

#4 DanDectis

DanDectis
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 18 September 2009 - 13:50

Mighty impressive lap Dan and well edited :wave:

Which version of the Ring do you use?

Its hard to say how much quicker a real F1 car would go. Youre probably in the ballpark, alot of the Rfactor F1 mods ive driven are ultimately alot faster than real F1 cars due to irregularities in the physics that can be exploited. One thing never changes though no matter what youre driving, the ring is a fierce competitor!

Edit: finished writing before the lap finished - always set 7th for Dottingehohe! Couldve gained 2-3 seconds there with 200mph ;)



well I think I lose tons of time on setup alone. That set I was using doesn't reach 200 at any point on the track...topped at 188 (from aero, not from gearing), I was running pretty much wing. If I trimmed it out I could gain so much time if I could still hang on for the rest of the lap. I'm floored by how much of a compromise this track must be for setup. 80% of the first sector is flat out for 1:30, but if you turn the wings way up then S2 and S3 especially are much easier. There must be at least 7-8 different areas on this track to reach top speed for many seconds so if I could gain even 3-4 mph I bet that would account for 5-10 seconds by the end. And I could go even further and take the top speed up by 10-12mph but then it gets so hard to hang on by the time you get to Pflanzgarten...IF you get that far!

Thanks for the compliments though. That version of the ring is the Touristenfarhen or whatever the proper spelling is.

Edited by DanDectis, 18 September 2009 - 13:56.


#5 DanDectis

DanDectis
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 18 September 2009 - 13:51

Dan,
That was really fun to watch...but you got Tarzan completely wrong, which cost you at least half a sec. You should have had a sub 5 min time easily.


Well I can imagine 30 seconds off that lap with proper setup and really learning the 3rd sector more. I'm actually not even familiar with where Tarzan is, but I will say that the lap is by no means perfect. It's just the closest to perfect that I've yet come :) When I started doing these laps my times were 6:15 or there abouts so I think shaving 45 seconds is not to shabby!

I' m glad you enjoyed watching it. I also must point out a slight contradiction that made me laugh :rotfl: You said I screwed up that one part ( I actually screwed up many parts! but anyway...) and said that cost me .5 of a sec at least...then you go on to say I should easily have a sub 5 minute time. Where, pray tell, does the other 33.5 seconds come from buddy?  ;)  ;)

Having said that I think you're right, sub 5 minutes is definitely possible...

Edited by DanDectis, 18 September 2009 - 13:58.


#6 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 8,304 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 18 September 2009 - 15:59

Are you using the CTDP mod? If you want a fast setup in the twisty bits and a good top speed you have to get a really good mechanical setup to allow the wings to be reduced. This means tweaking the weight bias, springs, dampers, geometry and tyre pressures to find grip rather than just adding more wing.

This is essential at every track. To do this you should start by setting your wing/gearing combination to the desired top speed. Your set didnt reach the peak power band on the straight in 7th which would be an easy win, prob give another couple mph without even changing wings.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 18 September 2009 - 15:59.


#7 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 19 September 2009 - 05:45

Dan,
I was pointing out one part of the track that you got wrong, Tarzan. Which is a tight left hand hairpin. And I know you got a lot of it wrong which is why I then said you should have had a sub 5min lap. I learned the track from GT4(and being an F1 fan) and as I was watching you I said to myself...here comes Tarzan. And when you went to the top of the turn my jaw dropped. Your biggest issue is where to hold your apex speed. Otherwise it was fun to watch. Go to youtube and search Jackie Stewart at the track you'll get the idea. You are on the right path. Listen to the others and tweak your setup.

Edited by Ivan, 19 September 2009 - 05:51.


#8 kevthedrummer

kevthedrummer
  • Member

  • 479 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 19 September 2009 - 08:52

Dan,
I was pointing out one part of the track that you got wrong, Tarzan. Which is a tight left hand hairpin. And I know you got a lot of it wrong which is why I then said you should have had a sub 5min lap. I learned the track from GT4(and being an F1 fan) and as I was watching you I said to myself...here comes Tarzan. And when you went to the top of the turn my jaw dropped. Your biggest issue is where to hold your apex speed. Otherwise it was fun to watch. Go to youtube and search Jackie Stewart at the track you'll get the idea. You are on the right path. Listen to the others and tweak your setup.


Do you mean the Karussell? The only Tarzan corner I know is at Zandvoort. I recall Jackie Stewart's advice was to aim for the tall fir tree when approaching the corner. Nice lap Dan.

#9 DanDectis

DanDectis
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 19 September 2009 - 17:36

Dan,
I was pointing out one part of the track that you got wrong, Tarzan. Which is a tight left hand hairpin. And I know you got a lot of it wrong which is why I then said you should have had a sub 5min lap. I learned the track from GT4(and being an F1 fan) and as I was watching you I said to myself...here comes Tarzan. And when you went to the top of the turn my jaw dropped. Your biggest issue is where to hold your apex speed. Otherwise it was fun to watch. Go to youtube and search Jackie Stewart at the track you'll get the idea. You are on the right path. Listen to the others and tweak your setup.



I invite you to try and take the karusel on that concrete banking in an F1 car in rFactor.

It is soooo bumpy that it is actually faster to go around the outside believe it or not.

#10 Gemini

Gemini
  • Member

  • 3,389 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 19 September 2009 - 17:45

Dan, that's a good looking driving indeed. Well done.

Can you please post a links to exact F1 mod and Ring track you are using here?

A setup you use would also be welcome. I will pm you with my email adress.



#11 DanDectis

DanDectis
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 19 September 2009 - 19:32

Dan, that's a good looking driving indeed. Well done.

Can you please post a links to exact F1 mod and Ring track you are using here?

A setup you use would also be welcome. I will pm you with my email adress.



Here is the car: http://rfactorcentra...0...edes MP4-22


Here is the track: http://rfactorcentra...rdschleife 2007

My setup, believe it or not, was not saved...

#12 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 22 September 2009 - 00:03

Kev,
Yes, that is what I meant...thx :blush:

#13 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 22 September 2009 - 00:06

I invite you to try and take the karusel on that concrete banking in an F1 car in rFactor.

It is soooo bumpy that it is actually faster to go around the outside believe it or not.

Actually no, it's not. Nick Heidfeld did it a year or so ago in the BMW! Inside the hairpin is the proper line...trust me and all the other F1 drivers that drove it for a living!

#14 DanDectis

DanDectis
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 22 September 2009 - 13:07

Actually no, it's not. Nick Heidfeld did it a year or so ago in the BMW! Inside the hairpin is the proper line...trust me and all the other F1 drivers that drove it for a living!

yeahh.... I know what the proper line is. That car is just so extreme for the concrete banking


Nick Heidfeld didn't go on the concrete in the Karusel. Video proof: http://www.youtube.c...5Wk-zSY#t=3m45s

I very distinctly remember him saying that he couldn't go on the concrete. That has to be the most bumpy part on the real track. Yes that line is the proper line and was what GP cars used to take up until the track stopped being used for F1. GT cars do still take that line but it absolutely does not work in a modern GP car, you will get no grip as you cant even keep 4 tires in contact with the road through there.

So...I was probably a bit wide through there, but I had the right idea for that car. I made it through there 60-70mph, on the concrete would have been more like 40.

Edited by DanDectis, 22 September 2009 - 13:24.


#15 Juan Kerr

Juan Kerr
  • Member

  • 2,608 posts
  • Joined: October 05

Posted 22 September 2009 - 18:58

Kev,
Yes, that is what I meant...thx :blush:

Hmmmm may I point to a slight difference in the F1 cars of 30 years past to present in this little 'I know better than you' discussion.

#16 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 23 September 2009 - 07:22

:confused:

#17 DanDectis

DanDectis
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 23 September 2009 - 11:07

:confused:


you're confused?

maybe you should just admit you got it a bit wrong there? ;)

#18 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 23 September 2009 - 21:41

What he says doesn't make sense...all the car needed was a proper set up. The only thing I got wrong was the name of the hairpin.

#19 WigF1

WigF1
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 05 October 2009 - 04:02

What he says doesn't make sense...all the car needed was a proper set up. The only thing I got wrong was the name of the hairpin.


And the fact that Nick didn't actually drive through the apex


Advertisement

#20 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 13 October 2009 - 18:02

Look everyone a TrainSpotter!

#21 DanDectis

DanDectis
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 13 October 2009 - 20:43

Look everyone a TrainSpotter!


Look everyone! someone who is unwilling to admit they got it wrong :kiss:

#22 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 26 October 2009 - 09:55

All I got wrong was the name of the corner!
My point was that you took an odd apex around said corner.

Edited by Ivan, 26 October 2009 - 09:56.


#23 MaxScelerate

MaxScelerate
  • Member

  • 4,287 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 26 October 2009 - 14:55

And everyone who either played the game with that car on that track, or watched the Heidfeld video, tells you that NO, modern F1 cars take it to the outside because the banked concrete slabs just aren't made to accomodate their suspension/wheelbase/whatever.

Or if I'm wrong, would you send us a replay of an F1, with a setup that is fast in other parts of the track, that manages to navigate Karusel in the way you say it *should* be done?

#24 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 26 October 2009 - 23:46

Max,
I going to take it for granted that you have read my other post in this thread. Which I said to Dan, if you have the proper set up the car will be fine. This track was used for MANY years with all the cars doing around the Karussell inside ON the asphalt. The proper apex. His argument was that in the sim he couldn't do it.

Nordschliefe go to the 6min 10 sec mark!!!
Nordschliefe go to the 2min mark!!!

Listen to the commentary.

Edited by Ivan, 26 October 2009 - 23:54.


#25 MaxScelerate

MaxScelerate
  • Member

  • 4,287 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 27 October 2009 - 05:03

First of all, I'll admit to not having tried any F1 mod on rfactor. So I'm going with what's in here in this thread (so yes, I read you :)) and experience from many other sims at various renditions of this beautiful track.

I am absolutely certain that if Dan sets his virtual BWM F1 up for taking Karousel in what is the best, the optimum, apex he stands to win much more than half a second ; more like 3 or 4. But I'm also almost certain he stand to lose much more on the rest of the circuit. Car setup is a job of compromise. Some you should accept, some not. As it is, for this virtual driver like for Nick Heidfeld, the proper apex happens not to be the optimum one.

If I designed and gave you a stupid car made only *not* to manage navigating the banked Karousel, would you go and beach it just because there is One proper way around?

Edited by MaxScelerate, 27 October 2009 - 05:05.


#26 Ivan

Ivan
  • Member

  • 6,646 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 28 October 2009 - 20:07

Cheers Mate...