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BMW finds buyer for Formula 1 team


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#51 ryan86

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:32

Ah, right. So it's probably impossible that Qadbak could take the homologation of the BMW engines and build them in-house as the necessary knowledge and equipment is unlikely to be part of the deal.

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#52 katmen

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:36

Audi F1 :up:

Audi pre-2009

Audi pre-2009

Audi pre-2009

two Audis pre-2009 :up: :up:

Audi 2009

:clap:

maybe better considering lamborghini

#53 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:41

Seems Sauber may still be involved.

Another quote from BMW

“A strong investor has therefore been found for the Hinwil-based team. Qadbak´s interest in the team will be represented by Lionel Fischer, a Swiss national,” they said. “BMW wishes Qadbak and the Sauber Team every success for the 2010 season and beyond.”



#54 Kelateboy

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:43

There will be 1Malaysia F1 team in next year's F1. No mentioning of Petronas involvement in this venture. Without Petronas' money, how could 1Malaysia F1 team survive financially?

A recipe for disaster. This will be a worse team than Minardi F1 team.

http://www.thestar.c...f...&sec=nation

-KB

#55 JasonSw

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:45

apologies if this has already been posted...

The Malaysian Government own Petronas, they also own Proton Cars, who in turn own Lotus Cars. Lotus are based in Norfolk in the UK and have a long history of building some great sports cars. The Lotus name is not being hijacked by the Malaysians, they actually do own it...

Tony Fernandes the team principal owns Air Asia after he bought the no frills airline from the Malaysian Government, turned it around as is now a big rival to VJ Mallya's Kingfisher Airlines.

This team will have plenty of investment and looks pretty secure. The team will be based in the UK, with a seperate research facility in Malaysia at the Sepang Circuit.

There are a lot of good, experienced F1 engineers and mechanics available at the moment after the redundancies from most of the teams earlier this year, so I think attracting compentent staff should be relatively simple at the moment.

#56 lustigson

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:46

There will be 1Malaysia F1 team in next year's F1. No mentioning of Petronas involvement in this venture. Without Petronas' money, how could 1Malaysia F1 team survive financially?

What about Proton and the Malaysian government? :rolleyes:

#57 wrighty

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:56

I don't see how they won't have another "defreezing" of the engines to get them on the same level since the merc power unit is obviously overpowered. Simply isn't fair.


troll

I also don't see how Renault would be kicked out for cheating in 1 race when mclaren ripped off another teams technical plans and designs (A far more grievous act of cheating) and still was allowed to race.


troll

Renault may decide to leave but if they are stopped from racing by the FIA its a total crock.


which thread was this meant to be posted in? Which year was this post meant to be made in? What has any of your blatent flamebaiting to do with the purchase of BMW by QADBAK??

#58 Suchmacher

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:57

Qatar royal family do not owns enough share in vw group to dictate an f1 entry does it?
I doubt the investment made to be linked somehow to Wolsburg but we never know....

#59 billm99uk

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:01

Anything but the Cosworth.

Those engines sound like they'll be overweight and underpowered.


Why are people so damn sure the Cosworth will be a dog. OK sometimes disasters are pretty obvious in advance (that last Porsche springs to mind) but Cosworth has a good record and has had plenty of time. What's the problem? :confused:


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#60 Owen

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:03

I know about vw a lot.....

I think, that vw needs more worldwide propagation mainly after financial meltdown

Skoda F1 with kubica and petrov ... not so bad combo experience plus €€€ from russia

I'd reckon if Mercedes came out of F1, Audi would be straight in there. But right now, no way. They're too far behind and the cash involved in getting to the front would be too great.

#61 AcuraF1

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:07

Job #1 for the new owners - Fire that lying snake Thiessen.

#62 Victor_RO

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:08

Job #1 for the new owners - Fire that lying snake Thiessen.


What? Once BMW pulls out of the team, Theissen will have nothing more to do with them. He's an employee of BMW Motorsport, not of the team.

#63 Kelateboy

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:15

What about Proton and the Malaysian government? :rolleyes:

Proton is cash strapped and is just lucky to survive in today's automotive industry.

The Malaysian Government is not like one of those Middle eastern oil-rich kingdoms with tons of money to spare. It is still a 3rd world country that needs money for development, and an investment into F1 may not be in the best interest of the people.

-KB

#64 katmen

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:16

I'd reckon if Mercedes came out of F1, Audi would be straight in there. But right now, no way. They're too far behind and the cash involved in getting to the front would be too great.

i must disagree, in this times you should buy good engine and with exbmw works could be not so difficult to hop on see forceindia
vw will expand in the near future a lot....

but everything is only speculation....

#65 FonzCam

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:40

Why are people so damn sure the Cosworth will be a dog. OK sometimes disasters are pretty obvious in advance (that last Porsche springs to mind) but Cosworth has a good record and has had plenty of time. What's the problem? :confused:


I was thinking the same thing. Since 2006 engines have been frozen and the 2006 Cosworth was a decent motor. Cosworth can make any changes they like so can match the various 'reliability' tweaks of the other teams and make as many performance enhancements as they like before the start of 2010 which surely gives them an advantage over the established teams. Cosworth engines were often good out of the box but then lacked development over the season due to lacking funds. I can realistically see the Cosworth being the 3rd best engine in F1.

If teams can get through to 2013 with the Cosworth and the FIA World Engine goes ahead then the choice of engine will suddenly open up.

Back on topic... Doesn't giving BMW an extra grid slot make a mockery of the new team selection process and give ammo to those teams taking legal action against the FIA?

#66 FonzCam

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:53

I'd reckon if Mercedes came out of F1, Audi would be straight in there. But right now, no way. They're too far behind and the cash involved in getting to the front would be too great.


If Mercedes dropped out of F1 tomorrow you'd see Mclaren-Ilmor Brawn-Ilmor and Force India-Ilmor on the grid at the next race. VW might buy Ilmor but they had little interest in F1 engines when they owned Cosworth.

#67 gm914

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:54

They will get more points in Scrabble than in F1.

:rotfl:

#68 D.M.N.

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 14:31

Good for the future of the BMW team. :up:

Just a few months ago, we were fearing 8/9 teams - now we have the potential for 14 teams! :up:

Edited by D.M.N., 15 September 2009 - 14:32.


#69 Clatter

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 14:36

Last Year The Ferrari Engine was better than the Mercedes Engine. This Time the Mercedes Engine is better than the Ferraris



Guys do you think its becuase of 18.000rpm?


No. The engines havent change, but the cars have.

#70 potmotr

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 14:37

Why are people so damn sure the Cosworth will be a dog. OK sometimes disasters are pretty obvious in advance (that last Porsche springs to mind) but Cosworth has a good record and has had plenty of time. What's the problem? :confused:


I thought it was because the engines had to be homologated for the start of last year (or was it 2007) and can't be substantially modified after that point.

Although not raced, the engine Cosworth have on the FIA's books is the one that powered Williams back in 2006.

In the year following the other engine makers refined their design before the homologation deadline, particularly in CoG and weight, while Cosworth stood still because no one was using its engine.

Might be wrong on this.

#71 Buttoneer

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 14:47

Good for the future of the BMW team. :up:

Just a few months ago, we were fearing 8/9 teams - now we have the potential for 14 teams! :up:

You're right.

Thank you Max Mosley!

#72 peroa

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 14:53

I thought it was because the engines had to be homologated for the start of last year (or was it 2007) and can't be substantially modified after that point.


And Renault and Honda were allowed to do what during the winter?
:wave:

#73 engel

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 14:59

ENGINE HOMOLOGATION

[...]

(iii) An engine delivered to the FIA after 31 March 2008, or modified and re-delivered to the FIA after 31March 2008, which the FIA is satisfied, in its absolute discretion and after full consultation with all other suppliers of engines for the Championship, could fairly and equitably be allowed to compete with other homologated engines.


ie any engine will do so long as the FIA says it's ok ;)


#74 Rinehart

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 15:35

If Renault are kicked out and this swiss independant team take their place, the entire Max political play will have concluded. Some big bad enemies and manufacturers out of F1.

#75 sportgrafica

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 16:00

I just hope after this year performance that doesn't mean that Kubica has to stay with the new team for next season...

#76 Anomnader

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 16:08

If Mercedes dropped out of F1 tomorrow you'd see Mclaren-Ilmor Brawn-Ilmor and Force India-Ilmor on the grid at the next race. VW might buy Ilmor but they had little interest in F1 engines when they owned Cosworth.



different Cosworths wasn't they? VW took the automobile Cosworth, someone from Indy cars took the racing engines.

#77 potmotr

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 16:09

Thank you Max Mosley!


Wash your mouth out.

#78 potmotr

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 16:10

And Renault and Honda were allowed to do what during the winter?
:wave:


A small adjustment, not a major redesign.

#79 FonzCam

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 17:14

different Cosworths wasn't they? VW took the automobile Cosworth, someone from Indy cars took the racing engines.


Yeah but VW were the ones who split Cosworth in two and sold off the racing half to Ford. Ford then sold it to Forsythe and Kalkhoven the Indy car guys.

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#80 kNt

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 17:37

http://videoportal.s...fc-4e8a622e79fa

^ Interview by Peter Sauber

Some facts:
-he knows who's behind QADBAK, trusts them, but can't reveal their name
-team principal is open
-name is not yet clear
-team will shrink, size is still open though(he expects 250-300 though, citing that size from an agreement between FIA and the teams (I think that's news, never heard details about that agreement, should apply to other teams as well))
-Ferrari Engine and Gearbox
-he doesn't know Lionel Fisher in person
-he says he has to be above the FIA decision and is sure at least one of the teams will not make it to the 2010 grid



great news in general :up: , thank you QADBAK whoever you are ;)

#81 shonguiz

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 18:22

http://videoportal.s...fc-4e8a622e79fa

^ Interview by Peter Sauber

Some facts:
-he knows who's behind QADBAK, trusts them, but can't reveal their name
-team principal is open
-name is not yet clear
-team will shrink, size is still open though(he expects 250-300 though, citing that size from an agreement between FIA and the teams (I think that's news, never heard details about that agreement, should apply to other teams as well))
-Ferrari Engine and Gearbox
-he doesn't know Lionel Fisher in person
-he says he has to be above the FIA decision and is sure at least one of the teams will not make it to the 2010 grid



great news in general :up: , thank you QADBAK whoever you are ;)

Thanks knt, seems that the report that BMW wanted very strong financial backing are true, good for the team. :up:

#82 carlt

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 18:38

I don't see how they won't have another "defreezing" of the engines to get them on the same level since the merc power unit is obviously overpowered. Simply isn't fair. I also don't see how Renault would be kicked out for cheating in 1 race when mclaren ripped off another teams technical plans and designs (A far more grievous act of cheating) and still was allowed to race. Renault may decide to leave but if they are stopped from racing by the FIA its a total crock.


Arse

#83 rghojai

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 19:48

Sauber alluded to something that crossed my mind; seems like they must know something we don't that will make it possible for them to race next year (?). Hard to see the wisdom of anyone buying and planning to fund a team that won't be able to race.

#84 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 20:01

Skoda F1 with Kubica


this is closer to truth than you may think ;-)

see: http://www.ewrc-resu...abia.php?car=22

Edited by GrzegorzChyla, 15 September 2009 - 20:02.


#85 Kelateboy

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 01:51

http://videoportal.s...fc-4e8a622e79fa

^ Interview by Peter Sauber

Some facts:
-he knows who's behind QADBAK, trusts them, but can't reveal their name
-team principal is open
-name is not yet clear
-team will shrink, size is still open though(he expects 250-300 though, citing that size from an agreement between FIA and the teams (I think that's news, never heard details about that agreement, should apply to other teams as well))
-Ferrari Engine and Gearbox
-he doesn't know Lionel Fisher in person
-he says he has to be above the FIA decision and is sure at least one of the teams will not make it to the 2010 grid
great news in general :up: , thank you QADBAK whoever you are ;)

Peter Sauber has long standing relationship with Petronas stemming from Sauber-Petronas-RedBull F1 years. The question now will Petronas back this team or the new Lotus team? I am sure QADBAK does not need Petronas money, but Petronas is not stupid enough to throw their money into bad investment (Lotus Malaysian F1).

Does anybody have any updates?

-KB

#86 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:48

-he knows who's behind QADBAK, trusts them, but can't reveal their name

My guess: a consortium led by Ernst Stavro Blofeld, Emperor Palpatine and Dick Cheney.

#87 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:19

how about err SAUBER-MERCEDES :clap: (as an aside the C9 is awesome!)
.
.
.
and the legend 'Concept by Mercedes-Benz' on the engine cover please

Mercedes didn't give the main richly backed works deal to Sauber F1 team for a reason didn't they?

#88 ensign14

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:22

My guess: a consortium led by Ernst Stavro Blofeld, Emperor Palpatine and Dick Cheney.

The first two at least knew what they were doing.

#89 Juan Kerr

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 08:48

I smell a Bernie

#90 phoenixmars

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 09:09

http://videoportal.s...fc-4e8a622e79fa

^ Interview by Peter Sauber

Some facts:
-he knows who's behind QADBAK, trusts them, but can't reveal their name
-team principal is open
-name is not yet clear
-team will shrink, size is still open though(he expects 250-300 though, citing that size from an agreement between FIA and the teams (I think that's news, never heard details about that agreement, should apply to other teams as well))
-Ferrari Engine and Gearbox
-he doesn't know Lionel Fisher in person
-he says he has to be above the FIA decision and is sure at least one of the teams will not make it to the 2010 grid



great news in general :up: , thank you QADBAK whoever you are ;)


I think this is great news. Surprised to see Ferrari engine there, I thought it will be Cosworth. Any info about the name of the team? I suppose it will not be Qadbak F1 Team.


#91 bankoq

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 09:25

Last Year The Ferrari Engine was better than the Mercedes Engine. This Time the Mercedes Engine is better than the Ferraris

Guys do you think its becuase of 18.000rpm?


No, Mercedes had better engine than Ferrari already in 2008.

#92 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 09:27

I think this is great news. Surprised to see Ferrari engine there, I thought it will be Cosworth. Any info about the name of the team? I suppose it will not be Qadbak F1 Team.

Read kNt's post again. He translates the interview and Sauber says the name is not yet clear. If Sauber-QADBAK doesn't know what the name is, how can there be any news abut it other thn to say they don't knwo what the name is? They're probably waiting to get approval rom the other teams to join the grid before revealing the name.

#93 lustigson

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 10:26

If Mercedes dropped out of F1 tomorrow you'd see Mclaren-Ilmor Brawn-Ilmor and Force India-Ilmor on the grid at the next race. VW might buy Ilmor but they had little interest in F1 engines when they owned Cosworth.

No we won't.

After the death of Paul Morgan [...] Mercedes increased its stake until it owned the entire company, and renamed it Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines Ltd.
In 2005, Mario Illien concluded a deal to purchase the Special Projects part of the company in partnership with Roger Penske, which had been contracted to supply Honda with IndyCar engines. Ilmor Engineering...


So the current Ilmor company is not the one that used to provide March/Leyton House, Lotus or Sauber with F1 engines. Speaking of Lotus, with the new 'Lotus F1 Team' a similar situation emerges, since that has nothing to do with the 'Team Lotus' of old.

And about Cosworth:

Cosworth was initially an independent company [but] split into Technology and Racing divisions the Racing division that retains the Cosworth name is now owned by Gerald Forsythe and Kevin Kalkhoven. The Technology division was briefly owned by Volkswagen and is now part of Mahle GmbH.



#94 katmen

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:06

this is closer to truth than you may think ;-)

see: http://www.ewrc-resu...abia.php?car=22

why not :up: :cool:

#95 fololo

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 13:20

No, Mercedes had better engine than Ferrari already in 2008.


No they havent. Look at the races there was rumors that have said that The Ferrari Engine has 15PS more than the MErc


But now the Merc is betta. its probably handle to 18:000rpm

#96 FonzCam

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 14:25

No we won't.


The point is MBHPE is a self contained F1 engine manufacturer in Brixworth so would be unlikely to shut down. If Mercedes pulled the funding someone would buy it/it would be spun off/management would do a buyout deal and engines would be branded as something or other. Even if it's not Ilmor in name it is in spirit. It's not like BMW or Honda who's F1 engines were developed as projects within their motor racing divisions which means the F1 project can not be sold off with the rest of the F1 team without selling their entire motorsports arm.

So the current Ilmor company is not the one that used to provide March/Leyton House, Lotus or Sauber with F1 engines. Speaking of Lotus, with the new 'Lotus F1 Team' a similar situation emerges, since that has nothing to do with the 'Team Lotus' of old.

The current Ilmor is the former special projects division of the old Mercedes-Ilmor created when Mercedes got rid of all non F1 parts of Mercedes-Ilmor. They might still have naming right we just don't know. The current Ilmor is however the part Ilmor that used to provide engines for Indy cars, that's why Penske and Illien bought it so they could supply the Honda engines for IRL. In many ways the current Ilmor is the 'real' Ilmor since they started with engines for CART back in the 80s and didn't get into F1 until the 90s.

And about Cosworth:
Cosworth was initially an independent company [but] split into Technology and Racing divisions the Racing division that retains the Cosworth name is now owned by Gerald Forsythe and Kevin Kalkhoven. The Technology division was briefly owned by Volkswagen and is now part of Mahle GmbH.



Volkswagen Group (through Audi) bought Cosworth from Vickers http://news.bbc.co.u...ness/131067.stm
Volkswagen Group sold the racing division to Ford http://news.bbc.co.u...ness/131736.stm
Ford sold Cosworth Racing to Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe when they sold Jaguar to Red Bull http://news.bbc.co.u...one/4012381.stm
Volkswagen sold Cosworth Technology to Mahle in 2005 and it's now Mahle Powertrain http://www.mahle.com...6MPHFT008STULEN

The Technology division was owned by Volkswagen for 7 years (since 1980 no one has owned any part of Cosworth for more then 8 years) It's the racing division that was owned briefly by Volkswagen after they bought the whole group from Vickers and promptly sold the racing division to Ford who then combined it with Stewart to make the Jaguar F1 team which they then sold to Red Bull and Kalkhoven & Forsythe.

The point was if VW sold Cosworth Racing after owning it for a day then they probably have little interest in buying another F1 engine manufacturer.




#97 kNt

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 22:33

Some people from BMW Sauber are already looking for new jobs.

#98 r4mses

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 23:27

i think that's quite normal if you're not 100% sure about your team's future... just like what happend within ex-Honda some months ago.

#99 kNt

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 15:58

It can be either that or that they already started to resize the organisation.

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#100 ensign14

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 06:26

Oh dear.