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2010 Silly Season (merged)


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#4151 Rinehart

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 15:24

Then the BBC should know better (and it's something I have ranted about before on here).

F1-Live and a whole host of other web/parasites use a news syndicate from Australia called GMM.

GMM aggregate F1 news stories (and unreliable ones at that) and then resell them to news sites across the globe. Problem is, that most of the stories are badly translated and they often seem to deliberately miss vital information in to make them sound more exciting than they actually are.

Example: Alonso's plane crash incident about a year ago. GMM 'accidentally' missed the word 'taxiing' from their news release and made the factual, but dull, story sound much more exciting then it actually was - Alonso's plane brushed a fence.

If you trace back many of F1's controversies (the kind that get fans all riled up), you'll probably find a GMM misquote at the root of it all.

They need to make money, but aren't journalists. They're sensationalist rubbish. And importantly, they have a quota of stories to produce daily, which if memory serves me well is between 8-15 a day. Imagine doing that during the off season?

And it's not just me on my high horse, the Autosport journalists can't stand them and nor can Joe Saward, Stuart Codling or Will Buxton (bit of a lengthy read that, but well worth it).

(I'll go lie down now after that...)


We really should start a GMM story generator thread!

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#4152 lustigson

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 15:33

Nobody is confirmed at Force India for 2010 at the moment.

That's true. However, Liuzzi has a 2-year contract for 2010 and '11, while Sutil's '10 option was taken up, IIRC.

#4153 rodlamas

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 17:36

Finnish press now confirms Mercedes and Kimi are negotiating.

#4154 zarooch

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 17:40

how astonishing would it be if mercedes 2010 line-up would be Kimi and Schumi :lol:



#4155 Anssi

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 17:43

Finnish press now confirms Mercedes and Kimi are negotiating.



Who? Where? :cat:

I read http://www.ts.fi/f1/ and http://www.mtv3.fi/f1/ and can't see nothing of the sort.


Or this http://www.hs.fi/urh...a/1135250885855

? Nope, doesn't confirm negotiations - just the same things repeated at many places, a little bit modified. I haven't seen nothing really that would not have been at f1.com or at autosport.com or here at this forum. It's just the same stories repeated many times over.

Edited by Anssi, 19 November 2009 - 17:45.


#4156 robracer

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 17:45

how astonishing would it be if mercedes 2010 line-up would be Kimi and Schumi :lol:


I think Mercedes have already signed Rosberg. I don't think Schumacher will return but it would be great to see it happen.

#4157 OSX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 18:06

http://www.hs.fi/urh...a/1135250885855

? Nope, doesn't confirm negotiations - just the same things repeated at many places, a little bit modified. I haven't seen nothing really that would not have been at f1.com or at autosport.com or here at this forum. It's just the same stories repeated many times over.


The story in Helsingin Sanomat clearly states that Norbert Haug confirms that Kimi's management have called Mercedes GP's Nick Fry in order to open negotiations.



#4158 Rinehart

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 18:15

I think Mercedes have already signed Rosberg. I don't think Schumacher will return but it would be great to see it happen.


Merc would put Lewis Hamilton on gardening leave to make space for MS!

#4159 Anssi

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 19:26

Ah, OK. There is that little bit. So Kimi's manager has contacted them and offered negotiations. It just does not qualify as "they are negotiating" in my eyes :cat:

Negotiations have been offered, but we have no idea if Mercedes is interested. Haug saying a "Kimi has my number" is pretty much a standard answer from him. It's quick and easy to shut up some pesky reporters with that line. For a moment at least :cat:

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#4160 ruby soho

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 19:54

HS doens't have any sources, they just messed up the translation of Haug wanting Kimi to call him

#4161 OSX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 20:03

Ah, OK. There is that little bit. So Kimi's manager has contacted them and offered negotiations. It just does not qualify as "they are negotiating" in my eyes :cat:


Well, I haven't claimed otherwise. I just posted what Haug confirmed to Helsingin Sanomat. Obviosuly this a very recent development and I doubt they're yet sat face to face.

I'm certain that Haug/Mercedes are interested due to the recent driver lineup developments. Kimi is the only available top driver. Remains to be seen of course whether they can strike a deal.


#4162 OSX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 20:11

HS doens't have any sources, they just messed up the translation of Haug wanting Kimi to call him


Ha! The Amus article doesn't even mention Nick Fry. Helsingin Sanomat received the confirmation of the contact made by Kimi's mangement directly from Haug. No other newspaper in the world has yet reported about it.

#4163 Lukin83

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 23:09

James Allen is speculating (or maybe suggesting?) that Brawn will wait for Renault's final commitment and then decide about the second driver.
http://www.jamesalle...getting-bitter/

As stupid as it sounds I wonder if the fact that Kubica is a tall guy isn't playing a role here. He's about the same height as Button, doesn't he?

#4164 scheivlak

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 23:20

James Allen is speculating (or maybe suggesting?) that Brawn will wait for Renault's final commitment and then decide about the second driver.
http://www.jamesalle...getting-bitter/

As stupid as it sounds I wonder if the fact that Kubica is a tall guy isn't playing a role here. He's about the same height as Button, doesn't he?

Kubica is 1.84m, Button is 1.83m.

#4165 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 23:48

James Allen is speculating (or maybe suggesting?) that Brawn will wait for Renault's final commitment and then decide about the second driver.
http://www.jamesalle...getting-bitter/

As stupid as it sounds I wonder if the fact that Kubica is a tall guy isn't playing a role here. He's about the same height as Button, doesn't he?


I think that's only prudent from Brawn's side, I mean there ain't no hurry now is there. See if Renault stay or go and if they go, then make a decision.

#4166 craftverk

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 23:49

Renault will stay. Well I hope they do, Heidfeld deserves a drive at Mercedes.

#4167 mkay

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 23:54

Renault will stay. Well I hope they do, Heidfeld deserves a drive at Mercedes.


Much more than Kimi at this point, I'm afraid.

Kimi should stop with this "show me the money" attitude...

#4168 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:18

Heidfeld deserves a drive at Mercedes.

Based on what? In ten years, he might have beaten all of his team mates, but all of them have gone on to bigger and better things. It's pretty telling that Heidfed has remained static. He doesn't bring anything that Mercedes needs, and his signing will only ostracise them from the rest of the paddock as they'll be a Grman team with two German drivers; McLaren might have done the same with British drivers, but this is not their maiden season. If Mercedes sign Heidfeld, they'd better hope Rosberg can carry the weght of their title campaign because thre's no way Heidfeld is going to rise to the occasion.

And if you think he deserves the seat fr senitmental reasons, may I direct you attention to Ferrari giving Badoer a race seat for those reasons?

#4169 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:25

bigger and better things. It's pretty telling that Heidfed has remained static.


Renault > BMW? Huh, I see...

If BMW was as good as Brawn, Heidfeld had every chance to beat Kubica to WDC. Heidfeld is class then. :up:

#4170 mkay

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:26

If Mercedes sign Heidfeld, they'd better hope Rosberg can carry the weght of their title campaign because thre's no way Heidfeld is going to rise to the occasion.


People said the same thing for Jenson Button and look at what happened this season.
:stoned:




#4171 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:49

People said the same thing for Jenson Button and look at what happened this season.
:stoned:

I direct you to Button's 2004 season when he was the best of the non-Ferraris. When did Heidfeld have a season like that? He's never been higher than fifth. The name "Quick Nick" is misleading - I can't recall the last time he was noticeably fast.

#4172 mkay

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:56

I direct you to Button's 2004 season when he was the best of the non-Ferraris. When did Heidfeld have a season like that? He's never been higher than fifth. The name "Quick Nick" is misleading - I can't recall the last time he was noticeably fast.


So what? Heidfeld has never that kind of opportunity Button got in 2009.

Button's reputation pre-2009 was that of a washed driver barely hanging on to F1. Now, he's the greatest thing next to sliced bread.

#4173 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 02:05

So just because Jenson Button lucked into a good drive - which he didn't do, really, since he had been with the team in its various forms since 2003 - then Heidfeld should be granted a good racing seat?

Hey, I know! Christian Klien has been a test driver for a long time, and he's from Austria, which is right next door to Germany. He should be given the Mercedes seat instead because Austria isn't represented by a driver!

#4174 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 02:44

I direct you to Button's 2004 season when he was the best of the non-Ferraris. When did Heidfeld have a season like that? He's never been higher than fifth. The name "Quick Nick" is misleading - I can't recall the last time he was noticeably fast.


Sticking a craptacular Williams with pogo-stick suspension and more drag than the Titanic on pole and finishing second in the race is not "noticeably fast" you say? :eek: :)

#4175 BMW_F1

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 02:57

I direct you to Button's 2004 season when he was the best of the non-Ferraris. When did Heidfeld have a season like that? He's never been higher than fifth. The name "Quick Nick" is misleading - I can't recall the last time he was noticeably fast.

2007. In 2004 ferrai was the only team that was really dominant. In 2007 it was both ferrari and mclaren the dominant teams after that heidfeld was the best of the rest.

#4176 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:00

Sticking a craptacular Williams with pogo-stick suspension and more drag than the Titanic on pole and finishing second in the race is not "noticeably fast" you say? :eek: :)

I'm sorry, I just figurerd you'd work out the part about being consistently fast at the same time. Takuma Sato took Fernando Alonso once, but he didn't do it race in, race out, did he?

#4177 Neophiliac

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:40

So just because Jenson Button lucked into a good drive - which he didn't do, really, since he had been with the team in its various forms since 2003 - then Heidfeld should be granted a good racing seat?

Hey, I know! Christian Klien has been a test driver for a long time, and he's from Austria, which is right next door to Germany. He should be given the Mercedes seat instead because Austria isn't represented by a driver!


It's not that Button does not deserve a good drive. It's that it's very unclear to me and to a lot of other people why there is such neglect towards Heidfeld. For example, Joe Saward seems to think that a Rosberg-Heidfeld lineup at Mercedes is less impressive than Rosberg-Kubica and MUCH less impressive than Rosberg-Button. Why???

W/r/t Kubica - in their years together in BMW, there hasn't been much to pick between the two. I'd struggle to come up with a clear case one way or another. So why the hell is a Rosberg-Kubica lineup a more impressive one than Rosberg-Heidfeld?

And Button is WDC, sure, but as has been pointed out by others above, prior to this year he'd probably be less in demand than either Heidfeld or Kubica. And indeed, if we abstract from the fact that Brawn has been so dominant and imagine that another team (say Mclaren) was getting all the 1-2s in the first half of the season, we'd describe Button's season of 09 as any other of his seasons vis-a-vis his teammate: win some, loose some. The only reason to keep Jense, in fact, would be that Brawn needs a reference point: they know that Button can win if the car is dominant (and Jenson likes the setup), so if they are not winning next year with either car, they'll know it's not because of obscenely shoddy driving. Other than that, Heidfeld is as good a pick as there can be out of the remaining free agents.

#4178 GIBF1

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:48

Argentine Jose Maria Lopez signs for USF1

According to Joe Saward

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#4179 lustigson

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:23

I made 2 additions: J.M. López at Team US F1, and one M. Schumacher at Mercedes:

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes (now effectively a Mercedes customer team)
McLaren MP4-25 – Mercedes FO108X
Team Principal: Martin Whitmarsh ; Technical Director: Paddy Lowe, Neil Oatley
1. Jenson Button (on a multi-year deal, likely until '12)
2. Lewis Hamilton (contracted until '12)

Mercedes Grand Prix (title sponsors Emirates, Orange and Mobil 1 mentioned)
Mercedes W2010 – Mercedes FO108X
Team Principal: Ross Brawn ; Technical Director: Ross Brawn (?)
3. Nico Rosberg (ever more likely due to Mercedes deal)
4. Nick Heidfeld (very probable, since Button's departure)
Michael Schumacher (rumoured, though somewhat unlikely)

Red Bull Racing
Red Bull RB6 – Renault RS27 (currently) / Cosworth CA2010 (remains an option) / Mercedes FO108X (ever more unlikely)
Team Principal: Christian Horner; Technical Director: Adrian Newey
5. Sebastian Vettel (on a multi-year deal until '11, with an option for '12)
6. Mark Webber (re-signed for '10)

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro (Santander title sponsor?)
Ferrari F2010 – Ferrari 056
Team Principal: Stefano Domenicali ; Technical Director: Aldo Costa
7. Felipe Massa (contracted until ‘10)
8. Fernando Alonso (3-year deal '10-'12)

AT&T Williams
Williams FW32 – Cosworth CA2010
Team Principal: Frank Williams ; Technical Director: Sam Michael, Patrick Head
9. Rubens Barrichello (confirmed; 2-year deal?)
10. Nico Hülkenberg (confirmed, probably on long-term deal)

Renault-Gordini F1 Team (possibly branded 'Renault-Gordini'; take-over by Prodrive and/or Charouz rumoured)
Renault-Gordini R30 – Renault R27
Team Principal: Bob Bell (interim); Technical Director: Bob Bell
11. Robert Kubica (confirmed for 2010)
12. Franck Montagny (former test driver, brings some experience to the team, and is French)
Adrian Sutil (rumoured)
Heikki Kovalainen (may return to the French team)
Lucas Di Grassi (long time Renault development and test driver)
Romain Grosjean (replaced Piquet mid-season; allegedly fallen out of favour due to bad results)

Force India F1 Team
Force India VJM03 – Mercedes FO108X
Team Principal: Vijay Mallya ; Technical Director: James Key
14. Adrian Sutil ('10 option taken up by the team, but free to go to bigger team, e.g. Renault or Mercedes)
Nelson Piquet (could be an option if Sutil leaves)
Karun Chandhok (after another GP2 season, he gets the nod from Mallya; will test McLaren simulator)
Neel Jani (Swiss with Indian father, will test McLaren simulator)
15. Vitantonio Liuzzi (has '10-'11 deal)

Scuderia Toro Rosso
Toro Roso STR5 – Ferrari 056 (Ferrari contract allegedly runs until ‘10) / Renault R27 (if Red Bull-Mercedes comes to fruition)
Team Principal: Franz Tost ; Technical Director: Giorgio Ascanelli
16. Sébastien Buemi (solid season with 6 points earns him another season)
17. Jaime Alguersuari (likely to stay on, but no contract signed, yet)
Brendon Hartley (Red Bull junior driver and tester)
Neel Jani (finally he gets his chance, but 2 Swiss drivers at STR?)

Campos Meta Team
Campos CM10 – Cosworth CA2010 (Dallara-designed and -built car)
Team Principal: Adrián Campos ; Technical Director: Daniel Audetto
18. Bruno Senna (gets his chance at new team, allegedly along with Petrobras money)
19. Vitaly Petrov (although Russian, he drove for Campos/Barwa in GP2 successfully, and brings sponsorship, too)
Pastor Maldonado (rumoured; brings sponsorship)
José Maria López (rumoured)
Pedro de la Rosa (experienced test driver; would need sponsorship for the drive)
Nelson Piquet (Adrián Campos said he's a possibility)

Virgin Manor F1 Team (likely renamed Virgin F1 Team)
Manor BW01 (Virgin VF1-10) – Cosworth CA2010 (car designed and built by Nick Wirth, formerly of Simtek and Benetton)
Team Principal: John Booth (of Manor Grand Prix) / Alex Tai (of Virgin) ; Technical Director: Nick Wirth
20. Timo Glock (2-year deal with an option for a 3rd)
21. Lucas Di Grassi (GP2 race winner and long-time Renault junior driver, did F3 for Manor in 2005)
Anthony Davidson (experienced ex-F1 driver)
Adam Carroll (GP2 race winner and A1GP champion, has been approached by 2 teams for ‘10)
Esteban Guerreri (has a priority pre-contract until 5 November)
Nelson Piquet (Booth allegedly stated he would consider him)

Best Buy Team US F1
US F1-10 – Cosworth CA2010 (contracted) / Toyota RVX-10 (rumoured)
Team Principal: Peter Windsor ; Technical Director: Ken Anderson
22. Jacques Villeneuve (says he's in talks with the team; getting a former F1 WDC and Indy 500 winner would be a major coup for the team)
23. José Maria López (rumoured)
Pedro de la Rosa (although Spanish, experienced test driver; excellent choice to develop the new car)
Franck Montagny (rumoured although French, has some experience)
Alex Wurz (although Austrian, experienced test driver; excellent choice to develop the new car; allegedly lost interest)
Jonathan Summerton (oft-rumoured, but still young)

1Malaysia Lotus F1 Team (has confirmed it signed its #1 driver, but not whom)
Lotus 110 – Cosworth CA2010
Team Principal: Tony Fernandes ; Technical Director: Mike Gascoyne
24. Jarno Trulli (rumoured)
Anthony Davidson (experienced ex-F1 driver)
Alex Yoong (relatively experienced and, well, Malaysian; unlikely, though)
25. Takuma Sato (rumoured)
Kamui Kobayashi (rumoured)
Fairuz Fauzy (Malaysian, possibly signed as 3rd driver)
Jacques Villeneuve (allegedly in talks with the team)

Sauber Petronas F1 Team (BMW-owned team did not sign 2010-2012 Concorde Agreement, but obtained '14th place', gets 13th spot due to Toyota's leaving; Petronas said to stay on as title sponsor)
Sauber C25 – Ferrari 056 (again with Petronas badge?)
Team Principal: Lionel Fischer (of QADBAK) / Peter Sauber (unlikely) ; Technical Director: Willy Rampf
26. Christian Klien (current test driver; could make for a typically sound Sauber line-up with Heidfeld)
Nick Heidfeld (contracted for '09; may stay on if a deal with Mercedes falls through)
27. Giancarlo Fisichella (Ferrari tester; comes with the engine deal)
Vitaly Petrov (successfully raced in GP2, and brings sponsorship)
Kamui Kobayashi (only mentioned on this forum, IIRC)

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#4180 THE "driverider"

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:24

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes*
1. Jenson Button
2. Lewis Hamilton

Mercedes Grand Prix
3. Nico Rosberg
4. Nick Heidfeld

Red Bull Racing
5. Sebastian Vettel
6. Mark Webber

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
7. Felipe Massa
8. Fernando Alonso

Qadbak Sauber
9. Giancarlo Fisichella
10. Vitaly Petrov

AT&T Williams
11. Rubens Barrichello
12. Nico Hulkenberg

Renault F1 Team
14. Robert Kubica
15. Heikki Kovalainen

Force India F1 Team
16. Adrian Sutil
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi

Scuderia Toro Rosso
18. Sebastien Buemi
19. Jaime Alguersuari

Team US F1
20. Jonathan Summerton (They should sign Graham Rahal)
21. Jose Maria Lopez

Campos Meta Team
22. Bruno Senna
23. Pastor Maldonado

Manor Grand Prix
24. Timo Glock
25. Lucas di Grassi

Lotus F1 Team
26. Jarno Trulli
27. Kamui Kobayashi

* "Vodafone McLaren" or "Vodafone McLaren Mercedes"?

Edited by THE "driverider", 20 November 2009 - 09:59.


#4181 mkay

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:27

Where did you take the "Best Buy" US F1?

#4182 lustigson

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:29

* "Vodafone McLaren" or "Vodafone McLaren Mercedes"?

A team statement said: "The team will continue to be known as Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, its distinctive silver-with-red livery will remain unchanged, and Mercedes-Benz will continue as both an engine supplier and a partner."

Where did you take the "Best Buy" US F1?

That was mentioned on several sites, some time ago.

Edited by lustigson, 20 November 2009 - 09:30.


#4183 craftverk

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:37

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes*
1. Jenson Button
2. Lewis Hamilton

Mercedes Grand Prix
3. Nico Rosberg
4. Nick Heidfeld

Red Bull Racing
5. Sebastian Vettel
6. Mark Webber

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
7. Felipe Massa
8. Fernando Alonso

Qadbak Sauber
9. Giancarlo Fisichella
10. Adrian Sutil

AT&T Williams
11. Rubens Barrichello
12. Nico Hulkenberg

Renault F1 Team
14. Robert Kubica
15. Heikki Kovalainen

Force India F1 Team
16. Pedro de la Rosa
17. Paul di Resta

Scuderia Toro Rosso
18. Sebastien Buemi
19. Jaime Alguersuari

Team US F1
20. Jose Maria Lopez
21. Jonathan Summerton

Campos Meta Team
22. Bruno Senna
23. Vitaly Petrov

Manor Grand Prix
24. Timo Glock
25. Lucas di Grassi

Lotus F1 Team
26. Jacques Villeneuve
27. Kamui Kobayashi

* "Vodafone McLaren" or "Vodafone McLaren Mercedes"?

I'm not going to say fixed, but you missed out Kobayashi :eek:

Edited by craftverk, 20 November 2009 - 11:01.


#4184 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:13

There are fearless drivers who have the killer instinct, the Alonso's, Hamiltons, Vettels, Kubica's off the world etc, and there are those who are a bit more mid field. Heidfeld is mid field, he'll collect some points in the background but he just doesn't have that x factor. Solid and reliable yes, but no excitement. Great no.2, but not the no.1 who is going to push it to the edge (and over sometimes). Given that Rosberg is also more no.2 than no.1 material as well, Mercedes need either Kimi or Kubica to get some oomph in their lineup or tbh they are not looking good for next year. Hence why I believe they are waiting to see what happens with Renault and using the time to make Kimi sweat as well.

#4185 alecc

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 13:20

Hence why I believe they are waiting to see what happens with Renault and using the time to make Kimi sweat as well.


I have a short question, what if Renault pull out, but not like BMW or Toyota, only more like Honda, they simply sell the team to somebody (f.e. Prodrive) other.

Do they can sell a team "inclusive" the contracts that they have signed with their drivers?


#4186 Mungo Fangio of the Year

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 13:27

There are fearless drivers who have the killer instinct, the Alonso's, Hamiltons, Vettels, Kubica's off the world etc, and there are those who are a bit more mid field. Heidfeld is mid field, he'll collect some points in the background but he just doesn't have that x factor. Solid and reliable yes, but no excitement. Great no.2, but not the no.1 who is going to push it to the edge (and over sometimes). Given that Rosberg is also more no.2 than no.1 material as well, Mercedes need either Kimi or Kubica to get some oomph in their lineup or tbh they are not looking good for next year. Hence why I believe they are waiting to see what happens with Renault and using the time to make Kimi sweat as well.



I agree with this, BUT only because I think Nico has not shown (gotten attention)
of racing world yet. I think he has it to be number 1. Shame on that is that I think
also Heikki has it what it takes to be number 1, but he caved in and maybe lost his
chance when he agreed to lapdog Lewis, while Nico very much is on the rise,
although still not the de facto number 1, which is why Mercerdez need a big name.

There are still 2 big proven names available for Mercedez:
- Robert, (if Renault decide to bail out of F1) as he is a proven GB winner, but has
he shown enough with car not so good?)
- Kimi, he has shown all, but does he ask too much?

Edited by Mungo Fangio of the Year, 20 November 2009 - 13:28.


#4187 alecc

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 13:40

but has he shown enough with car not so good?)


I think he has proven that in 2008, the car was "not so good" in terms of an WDC/WCC attitude.

#4188 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 13:46

I have a short question, what if Renault pull out, but not like BMW or Toyota, only more like Honda, they simply sell the team to somebody (f.e. Prodrive) other.

Do they can sell a team "inclusive" the contracts that they have signed with their drivers?


Pretty sure that's what happened to Button in the Honda Brawn switch isn't it? I'm imagine there is a break clause in that case, given the terms have likely be materially altered.

#4189 craftverk

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 13:49

Heidfeld is mid field, he'll collect some points in the background but he just doesn't have that x factor. Solid and reliable yes, but no excitement. Great no.2, but not the no.1 who is going to push it to the edge (and over sometimes). Given that Rosberg is also more no.2 than no.1 material as well, Mercedes need either Kimi or Kubica to get some oomph in their lineup or tbh they are not looking good for next year. Hence why I believe they are waiting to see what happens with Renault and using the time to make Kimi sweat as well.

Heidfeld has beaten both Kubica and Raikkonen. :rolleyes:


#4190 metz

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 13:51

There are fearless drivers who have the killer instinct, the Alonso's, Hamiltons, Vettels, Kubica's off the world etc, and there are those who are a bit more mid field. Heidfeld is mid field, he'll collect some points in the background but he just doesn't have that x factor. Solid and reliable yes, but no excitement. Great no.2, but not the no.1 who is going to push it to the edge (and over sometimes). Given that Rosberg is also more no.2 than no.1 material as well, Mercedes need either Kimi or Kubica to get some oomph in their lineup or tbh they are not looking good for next year. Hence why I believe they are waiting to see what happens with Renault and using the time to make Kimi sweat as well.

What nonsense.
In '05 Williams, Webber was the clear No.1 to provide the "killer instinct", "the x-factor", "the excitement" and the "oomph".
And Heidfeld edged him out.
Did it again to Kubica 3 out of 4 years.
Heidfeld doesn't have the high profile. He just gests on with it.
Yes, most of his team mates have gone on to win races. Always in better cars.
Time to give Heidfeld a better car.
If he fails, like Fisi, then we know.
Having beaten them or matched them, there is strong reason to believe he will succeeds, like Kimi, Massa and Webber.

#4191 Mungo Fangio of the Year

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 13:59

I am a bit ashamed if Nick again gets the short stick againts Kimi, but
that is the life in F1. I value Nick highly, which some don't understand
since I sing praises for Kimi even more. However, I think Nick truly is
the most underrated F1 driver of current crop. If it weren't for the fact
that he seems to vie for same seat as Kimi (again) I'd back him 100%!



#4192 alecc

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 14:06

Heidfeld has beaten both Kubica and Raikkonen. rolleyes.gif


Did it again to Kubica 3 out of 4 years.


The more I read this forum, the more I see, that most controversy arouses , not around Alonso (even with *gates), not Hamilton, not Button, not Kimi, any WDC, but Heidfeld.

"Heidfeld beaten Kubica" - "No he's not! Don't look at the points, take more factors than only Points! - "But Heidfeld outscored Kubica 3 times in 4 seasons" - "Because he had no luck, and dog of a car, except 2008, and look what happend!" - "But Nick struggled with tyres, that wasn't his fault..." - "Kubica won a GP!" - "Heidfeld let him through to take one-two for BMW!" blablabla

"Heidfeld beaten Kimmi/Mass" - "So what? They were rookies, but look which drivers choosen the bosses of the top teams!" blablabla

"Heidfeld is an good stable no 2 driver, without >>the edge<< to be WDC material" - "No he is not! He hadn't the opportunity to have a winning car!" blablabla

It's quite funny, isn't it? :)

Edited by alecc, 20 November 2009 - 14:08.


#4193 craftverk

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 14:08

The more I read this forum, the more I see, that most controversy arouses , not Alonso (even with *gates), not Hamilton, not Button, not Kimi, any WDC, only Heidfeld.

"Heidfeld beaten Kubica" - "No he's not! Don't look at the points, take more factors than only Points! - "But Heidfeld outscored Kubica 3 times in 4 seasons" - "Because he had no luck, and dog of a car, except 2008, and look what happend!" - "But Nick struggled with tyres, that wasn't his fault..." - "Kubica won a GP!" - "Heidfeld let him through to take one-two for BMW!" blablabla

"Heidfeld beaten Kimmi/Mass" - "So what? They were rookies, but look which drivers choosen the bosses of the top teams!" blablabla

"Heidfeld is an good stable no 2 driver, without >>the edge<< to be WDC material" - "No he is not! He hadn't the opportunity to have a winning car!" blablabla

It's quite funny, isn't it? :)

And your point is?

#4194 Mungo Fangio of the Year

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 14:11

Let me say here and now, statement: Nick is NO 2nd row driver!
He is on par with Jenson, Kubica etc.



#4195 William Hunt

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 14:32

Let me say here and now, statement: Nick is NO 2nd row driver!
He is on par with Jenson, Kubica etc.


I couldn't agree more. If Heidfeld had a Brawn this season he could have been world champion. He is at least at the same level as Button and Barrichello/

#4196 rodlamas

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 15:11

From what I've seen and read on the last few days I'd put my money on Mercedes having Kimi and Rosberg on cars 3 & 4 for 2010.

And then we will have a mile of threads of people complaining about Heidfeld being put aside again.

Edited by rodlamas, 20 November 2009 - 15:11.


#4197 Ramses1348

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 15:13

From what I've seen and read on the last few days I'd put my money on Mercedes having Kimi and Rosberg on cars 3 & 4 for 2010.

And then we will have a mile of threads of people complaining about Heidfeld being put aside again.


But didn't you loose all your money earlier this month betting on Kimi at mclaren ? :p

Anyway I hope you're right !!

#4198 craftverk

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 15:15

And then we will have a mile of threads of people complaining about Heidfeld being put aside again.

Raikkonen will NOT be at Mercedes next year.

#4199 Arion

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 15:18

And then we will have a mile of threads of people complaining about Heidfeld being put aside again.


Yup I'd be one of them. If they want a German, put Heidfeld there instead of Rosberg. He's done nothing in F1 except beating pay drivers.



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#4200 Szoelloe

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 15:19

Raikkonen will NOT be at Mercedes next year.


I would not bet on that yet. It is too obvious a solution.