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Kubica to Renault


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#1 JML

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:11

According to the french daily Le Figaro

"Pole Kubica and Renault have reached an agreement and are only awaiting confirmation to make the deal official from the driver's current Formula One team BMW Sauber, the report said.
Kubica, 24 finished fourth in the drivers' world championship last year, securing his only grand prix win in Canada.
Renault, who need a replacement for Ferrari-bound Spaniard Alonso, were unavailable for comment."

Edited by JML, 05 October 2009 - 22:12.


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#2 EthanM

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:13

Don't quote me on this but wasn't Eddie Jordan saying the Reanult-Kubica deal would get announced Tuesday?

#3 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:14

Noble is twittering it, it's as good as official:

Latest Twit from J Noble:

Paddock insight from group F1 editor Jonathan Noble
Renault is set to confirm Robert Kubica at 10am tomorrow morning UK time - so check out autosport.com for more details then.
16 minutes ago

#4 HMV

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:16

Damn.

Even Toyota seems like to have better prospects.

#5 pacwest

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:19

Waiting the new poll from the newbs "Is this a step back for foward for Kubica?" Film at 11.

I think Robert should be wary of manufacturer teams but Renault's recent statements give him some confidence that they will be around to sign his paycheque. I for one think he's glad to have a decent ride in a team that will be trying pretty damn hard to overcome perceptions.

Kubica to podium more often with this move I think.

#6 r4mses

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:20

ok, now we got (at least) 4 threads which care about Kubica going to Renault.

'cmon guys...

#7 raiseyourfistfor

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:28

Good move for both parties, they might just be the surprise of next year.

#8 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:28

To be honest, outside of say McLaren or Ferrari it's all a bit of a gamble as to who will be strong next year, you just never know, you never know when it's X team's time to shine. Brawn, Red Bull, who could have predicted these things?

I tend to agree with the above poster, I think he'll be podiuming a lot more at Renault than BMW.

And if it's good enough for his mate Alonso then it's good enough for him.

Great plans, it don't mean much, everyone thought BMW would challenge for the title this year and what did all this expectation amount to... a lemon of car and BMW quitting. You just don't know what the future holds, especially in F1, sometimes what seems like a wrong move turns out right and what seems right turns out wrong, that's the beauty of it;)

Edited by CaptainJackSparrow, 05 October 2009 - 22:30.


#9 bankoq

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:29

I'd very disappointed.

#10 HMV

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:33

Okay, maybe I overreacted.

But I'll remain steadfastly skeptic until I see the new Renault in Melbourne.

#11 alecc

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 22:51

Ok, lets look at - pure hypothetical - positives for KUB in this move, as a fanboy, I must think positive ;) if we assume that is a fact, and it seems to be, so:

-He will be rather number 1 in this team, getting earlier some updates, getting the better startegy for race and so on.
-Renault had a hit, in the "tyre change"-ban, maybe they will have a hit with the refuel-ban. (thats pure "maybe")
-Renaults second drive this year - no comment, we can assume that Alonso knew earlier of his Ferrari-contract, and he doesn't pulled off the real pace of the car (I know, I know, thats a stupid one:))
-This years Renault car is in the "no-diffusor" group, so from the beginning it wasn't the best construction, next year should be different.
-Do you guys heard on last races on any updates in this year Renault car? I can't remember anything like that, maybe they work on the 2010 longer than we think (something like Ferrari, but without announce that)
-After the crash-gate, Renault had two ways, whetever to withdraw like bmw, or to fight to get back the face with good result, it seems they convinced Robert that they go the second way "for sure", especially after his comments that "secure future of the team" is the most important for him.
-If Robert would go for money, or race performance based on this season, he would go to Toyota for sure, they have more money, and better pace this season, I don't think he is stupid, and know more than we, plus he have "insider" information from Alonso who seems a good friend of him.

I know, those arguments are very far-fetched, it would be better, seat nr 2 in macca, williams, or even toyota IMO :-/

Edited by alecc, 05 October 2009 - 22:52.


#12 mach1na

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 23:42

I am happy for both parties.

Renault gets a fast, consistent and hungry driver.

Kubica goes to a manufacturer team where he will be the Alpha driver.

Kubica has similar driving style to Alonso, hopefully they build him a good car.

#13 SoL

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 01:26

Ok, lets look at - pure hypothetical - positives for KUB in this move, as a fanboy, I must think positive ;) if we assume that is a fact, and it seems to be, so:

-He will be rather number 1 in this team, getting earlier some updates, getting the better startegy for race and so on.
-Renault had a hit, in the "tyre change"-ban, maybe they will have a hit with the refuel-ban. (thats pure "maybe")
-Renaults second drive this year - no comment, we can assume that Alonso knew earlier of his Ferrari-contract, and he doesn't pulled off the real pace of the car (I know, I know, thats a stupid one:))
-This years Renault car is in the "no-diffusor" group, so from the beginning it wasn't the best construction, next year should be different.
-Do you guys heard on last races on any updates in this year Renault car? I can't remember anything like that, maybe they work on the 2010 longer than we think (something like Ferrari, but without announce that)
-After the crash-gate, Renault had two ways, whetever to withdraw like bmw, or to fight to get back the face with good result, it seems they convinced Robert that they go the second way "for sure", especially after his comments that "secure future of the team" is the most important for him.
-If Robert would go for money, or race performance based on this season, he would go to Toyota for sure, they have more money, and better pace this season, I don't think he is stupid, and know more than we, plus he have "insider" information from Alonso who seems a good friend of him.

I know, those arguments are very far-fetched, it would be better, seat nr 2 in macca, williams, or even toyota IMO :-/



Agreed.

No real performance this season or last
No Flavio
No Symmonds
No $$$$$$ or Sponsors

Really..........what is he thinking?

#14 chrisj

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 03:10

Kubica seems clever enough, surely he wouldn't sign a contract without some assurances about Renault's participation next year. Let's see how good he is at leading a championship winning team. I'm now more interested in seeing who they sign as a second driver.

#15 mach1na

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 05:07

I'm now more interested in seeing who they sign as a second driver.


Renault seems to plug in their developmental drivers:

2007: Kovalainen
2008: Piquet
2009: Piquet , Grosjean (though Di Grassi was in contention)
2010: If Grosjean is not there, it could be Di Grassi, OR maybe Kovalainen comes back if Kimi goes to Mclaren.

#16 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 06:23

Interestng idea as to who Kubica's team-mate could be: GP2 runner-up Vitaly Petrov. I know I've tipped him for Campos before, but Campos are said to be in league wth Telefonicia as title sponsor, and while the exact source of Petrov's backing is a little hazy, one of the more popular suggestions is that it's Russian telecommunications giant MegaFon (it's defaintely either a telecom company or oil and gas becaue that's where the money is in Russia). If this is true, I doubt MegaFon and Telefonicia would be too thrilled at the prospect of sponsoring the same team, even if they are at opposite ends of the continent.

The fact of the matter is that Renault need a title sponsor. Or at least a major sponsor. Total is speculated to be joining them, but somebody is going to need to fill in the void left by them as secondary sponsor or take the reins if Total disagree. Renault showed up in Japan with MegaFon logos on their nose cone; they were only small, but they were the first people to join the team after ING abandoned ship. They may just be getting their foot in the door, presenting Petrov as a fresh face and offering money to Renault. Pay drivers don't really have the stigma that they once did, and some of the best drivers have paid for their seat - I believe Schumacher bought his Jordan ride, and Petrov isn't exactly lacking in talent; of all the GP2 drivers who have been in the series for more than one season, none have gone from the back of the grid to the front quicker than Petrov, and he was beating Grosjean when Piquet was dropped. If the stars align this particular way, we could get a MegaFon Renault team in 2010. I'd like that.

I say this is interesting because if Petrov is parnered with Kubica, Renault will be the East European All-Stars. Kubica has laid the groundwork for Eastern Europe to be brought into the Formula One fraternity; aside from the Hungaroring, they've been very under-represented, but there are five East European drivers in the lower leagues - Petrov, Aleshin, Vasiliauskas, Papevic and one whose name I cannot recall right now - and Russian oil oligarchy Lukoil has their own driver development program. They're even working with Red Bull, joining forces with them in GP2 to back Aleshin and Wickens. So if Kubica laid the groundwork, Petrov could follow through, and Renault would have some serious weight to throw about. They need a title sponsor and their name is tainted. But with two East European drivers, they can draw on a huge section of the world that has gone untapped until now.

After all, what if the next Ayrton Senna was born behind the Iron Curtain?

-He will be rather number 1 in this team, getting earlier some updates, getting the better startegy for race and so on.

I believe two of the regulations for 2010 will be a fixed number of upgrades over the course of the season, and homologation of all upgrades. I believe this translates as meaning that both drivers must - at the very least - race with the same parts. But I've been wrong before ...

#17 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 06:24

Good move by Kubica and Renault.

Renault get a driver perceived to be very good, and only the right car away from truly battling for the Championship. Kubica get a prime number 1 seat at a manufacturer team, which will either confirm him as that driver, or show him as 'found out'.

This confirm Renault will stay in F1 at least the next 2 - 3 seasons, and if Kubica is battling at the sharp end, then I am certain even longer.

I will expect Grosjean to be the second driver, racing on a French license (even though he really is Swiss) which will somewhat placate the French public (that is if the French public really give a hoot).

:cool:

#18 gorivan

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:30

It could be complete bs, but Eddie Jordan on BBC was saying with his usual confidence that Kubica had such a strong bargaining position with Renault that he could designate the second driver. And, suprisingly, that he wanted to take Kovalainen with him, believing he was under too much pressure at McLaren. I'm sceptical - wasn't it too much pressure in Renault before that?!?

#19 Jackmancer

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:34

Renault seems to plug in their developmental drivers:

2007: Kovalainen
2008: Piquet
2009: Piquet , Grosjean (though Di Grassi was in contention)
2010: If Grosjean is not there, it could be Di Grassi, OR maybe Kovalainen comes back if Kimi goes to Mclaren.


What about Timo Glock?

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#20 imthebest

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:39

Kovalainen really doesnt deserve a seat next year. Maybe a spot as a test driver is his due.

#21 pacwest

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:45

Seriously people. He had Toyota or Renault to pick from or stay on the Titanic.

I would have picked Renault all day long. Toyota is the ginger F1 team.

#22 Mauseri

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:51

Kovalainen really doesnt deserve a seat next year. Maybe a spot as a test driver is his due.

And Heidfeld deserved after last year? This year is beating Kubica...

#23 barteks

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:07

It could be complete bs, but Eddie Jordan on BBC was saying with his usual confidence that Kubica had such a strong bargaining position with Renault that he could designate the second driver. And, suprisingly, that he wanted to take Kovalainen with him, believing he was under too much pressure at McLaren. I'm sceptical - wasn't it too much pressure in Renault before that?!?

Yeah, I think it's pure BS. Kubica has always said he doesn't care who is the 2nd driver...

#24 glorius&victorius

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:10

so this is make or break for Kubica. As alpha driver in this manufacturers team, if he can't help the team forward then people will say that he was all hyped up.

will be interesting to watch

#25 alecc

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:13

This year is beating Kubica...


No, he isn't, a little more luck in such crap car, and you have this 6 points more (f.e. australia, malaysia, suzuka).


#26 Jackmancer

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:20

And Heidfeld deserved after last year? This year is beating Kubica...


Heidfeld - Kubica difference was less then Hamilton - Kovalainen difference, and Heidfeld beat Kubica in 2007 and he justifies BMW's trust in him this year as he's beating Kubica again.

#27 barteks

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:21

Well, he lost at least 6 points in Australia because of Vettel, so without the accident he would be level on points now with Heidfeld...

Needless to say Kubica has again beaten Heidfeld in qualis this year.

#28 Philzippy

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:21

There was talk of him wanting a 1 year contract.. I wonder if this will be the case.. Doubt he can dictate who has the other seat if he is only there 1 year.

#29 kong

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:23

so this is make or break for Kubica. As alpha driver in this manufacturers team, if he can't help the team forward then people will say that he was all hyped up.

will be interesting to watch

It should go better for Renault next year if they get Kubica and maybe Kovolainen.

Their power train is OK, same that Red Bull has, if they get drivers like Kubica and Kovolainen, who can also develop their car, the results should be much better than this years.

#30 Jackmancer

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:24

No, he isn't, a little more luck in such crap car, and you have this 6 points more (f.e. australia, malaysia, suzuka).


Well he has more points then Kubica and the positions are determined by points, not by luck.

Anyway a good driver without any luck is still a bad driver :p

#31 alecc

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:29

Well he has more points then Kubica and the positions are determined by points, not by luck.

Anyway a good driver without any luck is still a bad driver :p



The positions are determined by points, driving skills - not necessarily.

#32 undersquare

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:30

Well, he lost at least 6 points in Australia because of Vettel, so without the accident he would be level on points now with Heidfeld...

Needless to say Kubica has again beaten Heidfeld in qualis this year.


It was because Kubi put Vettel on the grass and kerb then claimed the apex. Surprise surprise, Vettel couldn't stop the car. 50/50 at the very best.

#33 Force Ten

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:31

-After the crash-gate, Renault had two ways, whetever to withdraw like bmw, or to fight to get back the face with good result

I really think Renault had two ways and one of them was to withdraw and subsequently been publicly embarrassed by being thrown out of 2008 and possibly 2009 championships or to pledge to stay and get a" bad Renault! Naughty Renault!" punishment it was given. I think there was a behind the scenes deal being made that at one side ensured that Renault won't flee and at the other side ensured that the punishment would be severe enough not to have any real consequences but appear as steep and stern.

#34 Walsingham

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:39

It was because Kubi put Vettel on the grass and kerb then claimed the apex. Surprise surprise, Vettel couldn't stop the car. 50/50 at the very best.



Thats your version. Vettle's version is different.

#35 barteks

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:41

It was because Kubi put Vettel on the grass and kerb then claimed the apex. Surprise surprise, Vettel couldn't stop the car. 50/50 at the very best.

Tell it to the stewards who punished Vettel...

#36 undersquare

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:55

Thats your version. Vettle's version is different.


Tell it to the stewards who punished Vettel...


Yes Seb foolishly apologised, I know. But still, it was basically the accident that Webbo gave to Kubi at Monza, in reverse.

#37 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:58

Damn.

Even Toyota seems like to have better prospects.


Bad move by Kubica going to Renault. I would have gone to Toyota in a heart beat.

#38 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:21

Well you gotta figure he is privy to information that we don't get. Maybe they showed him the r30 and it's the bee knees.

I mean who knows if Toyota will even be on the grid next year.

Plus, you can lead a team at Renault, be your own man etc, Toyota is a bit too BMW-ish in culture.

#39 thuGG

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:25

The Ragged Edge
But you are just a forumer sitting in front your PC.

Edited by thuGG, 06 October 2009 - 09:25.


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#40 EthanM

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:26

Renault can win, they have done it in the past. And they are racers. Toyota is too corporate IMO and most importantly, don't have a track record to speak off, they big allure is money and even that is in question since they don't have a budget yet.

#41 peroa

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:28

NobleF1 There are suggestions that the Renault-Kubica announcement has been delayed for unspecified reasons. It may be later today or even tomorrow


Hehe, Howett chained himself to Kubica's leg in greenpeace style and refuses food & water ...

Edited by peroa, 06 October 2009 - 09:28.


#42 undersquare

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:36

Hehe, Howett chained himself to Kubica's leg in greenpeace style and refuses food & water ...


:lol:

#43 santori

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:37

Well, Le Figaro said it would only be announced on Wednesday.

#44 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:44

Methinks last minute counter offers perhaps.



#45 GhostR

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:45

Yes Seb foolishly apologised, I know. But still, it was basically the accident that Webbo gave to Kubi at Monza, in reverse.


I'm scratching my head here that you seem to imply that was Webber's fault :confused: . Webber left Kubica *plenty* of room and Kubica overcooked it diving up the inside to clatter into Webber's rear.

Kubica at Aus did not leave Vettel much room at all. Vettel was too hot into the corner and probably should have let Kubica go, but I called it a 50/50 at the time. Wasn't Vettel's penalty at the next race for driving the car around in an unsafe condition rather than for the accident itself?

#46 EthanM

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:46

Wasn't Vettel's penalty at the next race for driving the car around in an unsafe condition rather than for the accident itself?


Yes, the penalty was for driving around on three wheels not for the Kubica incident

#47 noikeee

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:47

I think it's a good move by Kubica given the open possibilites right now. Renault at the moment seem more committed than Toyota, since the rumour around is that they agreed with the FIA to commit themselves for a couple years in order not to get a big fine. The exit of Briatore, Symmonds and ING, while in theory a bad thing, could end up making them stronger - it's a psychological new start for them, the end of a rather poor era. Kubica is the best guy they could get to replace Fred, as he's so similar in terms of both personality and driving style. He's a leader.

#48 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:49

In my mind the biggest plus for Renault over Toyota is that Renault know how to win.

#49 Buckethead

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:56

Renault showed up in Japan with MegaFon logos on their nose cone; they were only small, but they were the first people to join the team after ING abandoned ship.


MegaFon has been sponsoring Renault from the mid-season, but they changed the position of their logo in Japan. So they didn't actually JOIN after ING :)


and he was beating Grosjean when Piquet was dropped.

Well, I would called it a draw. Too close to say. :)

#50 undersquare

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:57

I'm scratching my head here that you seem to imply that was Webber's fault :confused: . Webber left Kubica *plenty* of room and Kubica overcooked it diving up the inside to clatter into Webber's rear.

Kubica at Aus did not leave Vettel much room at all. Vettel was too hot into the corner and probably should have let Kubica go, but I called it a 50/50 at the time.


The Monza one I saw Webbo squeezing Kubi onto the grass and kerb then claiming the apex from the wide line. Kubi bounced over the kerb unable to slow down. Pretty identical to Kubi/Seb in Oz. Yes in each case the car on the inside was having a dive, but if you squeeze them onto the grass and kerb you know they're going to struggle to slow down. So if you then take the apex you should know what's going to happen next. With Mark it was on the first lap, 2nd chicane, cars all around, it was suicide to take that line.