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Kubica to Renault


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#201 MaxFan1

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:56

Kubica really should have pushed for McLaren, even as far as offering to drive for virtually nothing. He won't get anywhere with Renault.

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#202 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:19

Kubica really should have pushed for McLaren, even as far as offering to drive for virtually nothing.

And it still wouldn't have done him much good if McLaren were fixed on Raikkonen as many people seem to believe. And if he tried too hard for McLaren, Renault might have lsot interest.

#203 ebony

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:24

Both parties are good or it may be possible they will do something surprising.



#204 alecc

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:46

after
http://www.thisislon...und-the-bend.do

Part of his indifference lies in BMW Sauber's underachievement this season. Originally tipped to fight it out with Ferrari and McLaren for the title, BMW boast just one podium finish and that was back in April. Ask him to explain the reason, Kubica grimaces and shrugs before a one-word explanation, "KERS", the energy-recovery system which BMW pushed so heavily to introduce but which they have failed to utilise.


If I remember 2008, that all talk of Theissen and Rampf about the great KERS they will be have, that they used it in civil cars and have experience with it, and then, when they refuse to postpone the KEST to 2010, making an veto in FOTA for this idea, because they put so much time and work in it. And that they have every season an target with a plan, and they want not change anything on that plan. 2006 first points, 2007 first podiums, 2008 first win, 2009 fighting for WDC and WCC.
So, when I remember all that talks, the only thing I can do is:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

"There is a lot of politics. It's not good for the sport, not good for me and not good for the fans - but this is the reality. I've never known it like this and it's difficult to know how damaging it's been but this has been one of the worst years for politics in F1."


Gospel truth.

Edited by alecc, 08 October 2009 - 10:46.


#205 alecc

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:40

Grosjean out, di Grassi in, for interlagos.

#206 jeze

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:45

Grosjean out, di Grassi in, for interlagos.


Oh, really?

#207 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 13:49

Nice timely pic... of perhaps future teammates? certainly good mates in any case.
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#208 DePortago

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 14:50

Yes, it´s true. Kubica signed only for a year with Renault, so now we know we can expect from him: something like "Bob (Bell), if you give me a fast car, it would be nice, maybe we can win some races and re-negociate our contract at the end of the season. If the car is not good... hasta la vista baby.

Alonso could do that, cause he is a two WC. I´m not sure about Kubica.

#209 alecc

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 15:07

I heard rumours that somebody heard rumours that Robert will replace Grosjaen in this season, don't think so, but regardless I forward it :)

#210 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 15:24

I heard rumours that somebody heard rumours that Robert will replace Grosjaen in this season, don't think so, but regardless I forward it :)


I would be surprised if that happened, the F1.09 could be a good car in the last 2 races, it's had a lot of dev work put into it whilst the others will stand still. Kubica could still podium in it with some luck this year.

Plus, getting into an unfamiliar car mid season is never a good idea.



#211 Gemini

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 16:11

I would be surprised if that happened, the F1.09 could be a good car in the last 2 races, it's had a lot of dev work put into it whilst the others will stand still. Kubica could still podium in it with some luck this year.

Plus, getting into an unfamiliar car mid season is never a good idea.


I think it would be good idea. He has nothing to proove in BMW. And he is out of new engines anyway, so he can forget about podiums and high points. BMW will run rev limited engines (of course officialy they will say they miscalculated the 7th gear ratio hehe). And they have Klien jumping up and down "me, me, pick me.."

Most importantly there's no testing alowed untill 2010, so it's good for him to drive Renault and share with engineers what he thinks about the car, so it can be used by his team when developing 2010 machine. With no November/December testing for regular drivers it's new situation

For same reasons it would actually make sense to get Alonso to Ferrari's Fisichella car.

Edited by Gemini, 08 October 2009 - 16:14.


#212 alecc

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 16:15

In polish media after http://www.tomorrownewsf1.com/
-Kubica signed a 2 year contract
-The contracts value is 8,5 mln € per season.

#213 Gemini

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 16:20

I heard rumours that somebody heard rumours that Robert will replace Grosjaen in this season, don't think so, but regardless I forward it :)


I actually shared same suspision on other forum few days ago. What can be additional fuel for such a rumour is that story said by Morelli about "waiting for BMW contract release letter". Morelli said it was needed as contract did not have a clause for situation like BMW quiting F1. But I would be very surprised such a thing was left for the last second. So I would not be surprised if that 'realease letter' is for little more that what Morelli already said.


#214 OSX

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 17:21

From Turun Sanomat:

"According to (Renault managing director Jean-Francois) Caubet Renault is keeping a close eye on four drivers at the moment. They are Timo Glock, Adrian Sutil, Nick Heidfeld and Heikki Kovalainen."

http://www.ts.fi/f1/uutiset/79770.html


#215 WebBerK

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 17:30

From Turun Sanomat:

"According to (Renault managing director Jean-Francois) Caubet Renault is keeping a close eye on four drivers at the moment. They are Timo Glock, Adrian Sutil, Nick Heidfeld and Heikki Kovalainen."

http://www.ts.fi/f1/uutiset/79770.html

In my equation:

Alonso >= Trulli >= Glock [Renault + Toyota]
Kimi >= Nick [Sauber]
Lewis > Sutil [Euro F3]
Lewis >>> Heikki [Maca]

Easy, my solution would be Sutil on a long term contract or Heidfeld on a short term..

#216 OSX

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 18:24

In my equation:

Alonso >= Trulli >= Glock [Renault + Toyota]
Kimi >= Nick [Sauber]
Lewis > Sutil [Euro F3]
Lewis >>> Heikki [Maca]

Easy, my solution would be Sutil on a long term contract or Heidfeld on a short term..


I think that Heikki actually has a better than average chance of getting the other available Renault seat. He wasn't considered a failure during his time at Renault and he's good friends with team principal Bob Bell.

#217 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 18:57

In my equation:

Alonso >= Trulli >= Glock [Renault + Toyota]
Kimi >= Nick [Sauber]
Lewis > Sutil [Euro F3]
Lewis >>> Heikki [Maca]

Easy, my solution would be Sutil on a long term contract or Heidfeld on a short term..


there is another famous equation

damon>=jacques (williams)
jacques>frenzen (williams)
frenzen>hill (jordan)

=>damon >> damon :)

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 08 October 2009 - 18:57.


#218 WebBerK

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 19:12

there is another famous equation

damon>=jacques (williams)
jacques>frenzen (williams)
frenzen>hill (jordan)

=>damon >> damon :)

=>damon@williams >> damon@jordan :wave:

Edited by WebBerK, 08 October 2009 - 19:13.


#219 kong

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 19:13

I think that Heikki actually has a better than average chance of getting the other available Renault seat. He wasn't considered a failure during his time at Renault and he's good friends with team principal Bob Bell.

I think so too.
1. Kovaluinen
2. Sutil

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http://www.arivatane...ewsletters.html

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#220 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 19:23

=>damon@williams >> damon@jordan :wave:

but what about sutil@eurof3 vs sutil@f1?

or heikki@renault vs heikki@mclaren?

not to mention NPjr@gp2 vs NPjr@f1

this type of comparison doesn't actually work, trust me :)

#221 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 19:28

In polish media after http://www.tomorrownewsf1.com/
-Kubica signed a 2 year contract
-The contracts value is 8,5 mln € per season.


If that salary is true, Kubica has the best manager in F1. PERIOD! :eek:

From Turun Sanomat:

"According to (Renault managing director Jean-Francois) Caubet Renault is keeping a close eye on four drivers at the moment. They are Timo Glock, Adrian Sutil, Nick Heidfeld and Heikki Kovalainen."

http://www.ts.fi/f1/uutiset/79770.html



I would like Kovalainen to get the 2nd Renault seat. Just so we could gage how good Kubica really is. Anything short of total demolition of Kovalainen in race pace and Kubica would officially be a hyped up dud, or genuinely top class.

Edited by The Ragged Edge, 08 October 2009 - 19:33.


#222 barteks

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 19:39

I heard rumours that somebody heard rumours that Robert will replace Grosjaen in this season, don't think so, but regardless I forward it :)

Read again yesterday's press releases carefully...

Edited by barteks, 08 October 2009 - 19:39.


#223 noikeee

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 19:45

If that salary is true, Kubica has the best manager in F1. PERIOD! :eek:


Not really, seems like a normal salary for a driver who isn't considered top yet, but close and with potential. Remember this is a works team and they had to beat the offer of another works team to sign him.

#224 gorivan

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 20:06

If that salary is true, Kubica has the best manager in F1. PERIOD! :eek:




I would like Kovalainen to get the 2nd Renault seat. Just so we could gage how good Kubica really is. Anything short of total demolition of Kovalainen in race pace and Kubica would officially be a hyped up dud, or genuinely top class.


The question is, will Renault minus Briatore be as focused on one driver over the other as that certain other team? But you do have a point, I think that contrary to popular opinion, Kovalainen is not a particularly relaxing choice for a second seat from Kubica's point of view. Not comfortable at all; the comparisons with Hamilton would be inevitable.

#225 Mito Ferrari

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 13:43

excuse me,are there news about kubica's teammate for 2010?

#226 thuGG

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 13:51

Speculation only.



#227 MaxFan1

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 13:53

And it still wouldn't have done him much good if McLaren were fixed on Raikkonen as many people seem to believe. And if he tried too hard for McLaren, Renault might have lsot interest.

No way is McLaren is fixed on Kimi. Kubica proved that he is every bit as good as Kimi in 2008 when he finished level on points with an inferior car.

#228 Conny_Mary

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 13:55

excuse me,are there news about kubica's teammate for 2010?

no……

#229 Mito Ferrari

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 13:59

Speculation only.

about who?

#230 metz

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:04

Jean-Francois Caubet hints that Kubica's teammate will be one of the following:

-Timo Glock
-Adrian Sutil
-Nick Heidfeld
-Heikki Kovalainen

#231 Mito Ferrari

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:08

mmm...sutil..

#232 F1_conman

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:15

Jean-Francois Caubet hints that Kubica's teammate will be one of the following:

-Timo Glock
-Adrian Sutil
-Nick Heidfeld
-Heikki Kovalainen



my vote is for Heikki - I think he deserves another chance in a decent car after his unfair comparison to Hamilton.
The macca team is built around Hamilton - realistically nobody has a chance to beat Hamilton there (even Kimi).

#233 Buckethead

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:19

Jean-Francois Caubet hints that Kubica's teammate will be one of the following:

-Timo Glock
-Adrian Sutil
-Nick Heidfeld
-Heikki Kovalainen



Why won't they stick with Grosjean? He has potential, good winter testing and he would be lot better. Better than Sutil and Kovalainen, at least :lol:

#234 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:30

No way is McLaren is fixed on Kimi. Kubica proved that he is every bit as good as Kimi in 2008 when he finished level on points with an inferior car.



Was the BMW genuinely inferior, or was that how Kubica and Heidfeld made it look? The Renault in Piquets and Grosjeans hands, cannot do what Alonso does with it and make it a regular Q3 car. If you judge the Mclaren by Kovalainens driving, it would look like a car capable of 6th-8th place at best. But in Hamiltons hands, it is capable of wins. The BMW was only 2-4 tenths off, in 2008. Would Alonso, Massa, Hamilton or a Raikkonen make that difference up in race-pace, if they were driving the 2008 BMW? Or did Kubica extract the maximum that car could give? I badly want Kubica to go up against a known quantity, because not being able to demolish Heidfeld, leaves serious question marks about Kubica and whether he is the real deal or not.

Edited by The Ragged Edge, 09 October 2009 - 14:38.


#235 Megan

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:34

Jean-Francois Caubet hints that Kubica's teammate will be one of the following:
...
-Nick Heidfeld
...

Oh no, not Heidfeld again. :evil:

Edited by Megan, 09 October 2009 - 14:50.


#236 Walsingham

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:37

Was the BMW genuinely inferior, or was that how Kubica and Heidfeld made it look? The Renault in Piquets and Grosjeans hands, cannot do what Alonso does with it and make it a regular Q3 car. If you judge the Mclaren by Kovalainens driving, it would look like a car capable of 6th-8th place at best. But in Hamiltons hands, it is capable of wins. The BMW was only 2-4 tenths off, in 2008. Would Alonso, Massa, Hamilton and Alonso make that difference up in race-pace, if they were driving the 2008 BMW? Or did Kubica extract the maximum that car could give? I badly want Kubica to go up against a known quantity, because not being able to demolish Heidfeld, leaves serious question marks about Kubica and whether he is the real deal or not.


Heidfled was driving in the same machinery as Massa, Raikkonen, Webber, Villenueve, Vettel. He lost only twice to his teammates and one was Kubica. People have short memory here and easily forgot how he was overtaking maclarens in 2007. If he isnt known quantity than no one in current F1 is.

Edited by Walsingham, 09 October 2009 - 14:46.


#237 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:41

Heidfled was driving in the same machinery as Massa, Raikkonen, Webber, Villenueve. If he isnt known quantity than no one in current F1 is.


It's in the teams best interests to get the best driver available and the top teams dont rate Heidfeld in the top eschelon.


#238 Sarhan

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:45

I've got a feeling it's gonna be Glock.



#239 alecc

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 15:02

Was the BMW genuinely inferior, or was that how Kubica and Heidfeld made it look? The Renault in Piquets and Grosjeans hands, cannot do what Alonso does with it and make it a regular Q3 car. If you judge the Mclaren by Kovalainens driving, it would look like a car capable of 6th-8th place at best. But in Hamiltons hands, it is capable of wins. The BMW was only 2-4 tenths off, in 2008. Would Alonso, Massa, Hamilton or a Raikkonen make that difference up in race-pace, if they were driving the 2008 BMW? Or did Kubica extract the maximum that car could give? I badly want Kubica to go up against a known quantity, because not being able to demolish Heidfeld, leaves serious question marks about Kubica and whether he is the real deal or not.


Hamilton, Alonso, BMW and Renault staff, all them, says that Kubica is really, really fast and a top driver, I think they know a lot more than you do.
If the first half of 2008, before they stopped to update the car, is not a demolition of Heidfeld, then what is?
I hope Heikki goes to Renault, only because you will see that Hamilton>Heikki will be similar to Kubica>Heikki.

In terms of consistency, Kubica is number 1, now in F1, without any doubt, in 2008 he was the only driver that didn't make any mistake on the race (maybe only the wet race in Silverstone), in terms of speed, since 2008 he had almost every time better quali fuel-corrected times than Heidfeld if he only have the possibility to make a clean lap.

The speculations that he is a second/third tier driver are really funny, spot me another driver, that had managed into F1 without any bigger sponsors, and had received a contract in a team, without testing their car (only on base of telemetrics in another F1 car).

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#240 Walsingham

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 15:14

It's in the teams best interests to get the best driver available and the top teams dont rate Heidfeld in the top eschelon.


So they choose real top drivers like Kovalainen or Fisichella? The fact that Heidfeld is not in McLaren or Ferrari has nothing to do whether he is known quantity or not.

#241 T.N.

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 18:08

Oh no, not Heidfeld again. :evil:


Well, for Reno it would be a good choice. I do not like Heidfeld very much, but, to be honest, he is a good driver. Maybe not very consistent, maybe not aggressive enough, maybe not a type of hard-worker like Kubica, but he is simply a firm brand in F1. There were moments when he was quite brilliant, and there was a few such when he was dull. In BMW we saw too much technical problems - even in the best season - to ignore their influence on mean driver's evaluation. Even during that rainy Silverstone, when Kubica went into the gravel - he complained too low suspension for a wet and bumpy track, but mechanics knew better and we saw results. Of course - he does mistakes, as everybody - when you drive on the edge you cannot avoid mistakes. But Heidfeld did much more of that stuff. Not speaking 'bout Hamilton, who gives us more "monkeys" than Kamikaze-Nakaijma, sometimes :lol:

#242 Gemini

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 18:17

Was the BMW genuinely inferior, or was that how Kubica and Heidfeld made it look? The Renault in Piquets and Grosjeans hands, cannot do what Alonso does with it and make it a regular Q3 car. If you judge the Mclaren by Kovalainens driving, it would look like a car capable of 6th-8th place at best. But in Hamiltons hands, it is capable of wins. The BMW was only 2-4 tenths off, in 2008. Would Alonso, Massa, Hamilton or a Raikkonen make that difference up in race-pace, if they were driving the 2008 BMW? Or did Kubica extract the maximum that car could give? I badly want Kubica to go up against a known quantity, because not being able to demolish Heidfeld, leaves serious question marks about Kubica and whether he is the real deal or not.


You picked as examples drivers who have confirmed preferential treatment in their teams. Both were, without hiding it, receiving updates and developemnts ahead of their respective teammates. I have no doubt that Alonso and Hamilton were better that their respective teammates, but circumstances of of their teams were one driver was a golden boy are also to be considered.

But agree with one thing, if Kubica is to become WDC he has to beat everone. And stronger the teammate the better, as this strong teammate will not have car advantage if in better team.


#243 metz

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 18:26

Oh no, not Heidfeld again. :evil:

I hope it's not Heidfeld.
If Heidfeld beats Kubica again at Renault, it would be 4 out of 5 years.
That might be the end of Robert's career. :(

#244 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 19:03

You picked as examples drivers who have confirmed preferential treatment in their teams. Both were, without hiding it, receiving updates and developemnts ahead of their respective teammates. I have no doubt that Alonso and Hamilton were better that their respective teammates, but circumstances of of their teams were one driver was a golden boy are also to be considered.

But agree with one thing, if Kubica is to become WDC he has to beat everone. And stronger the teammate the better, as this strong teammate will not have car advantage if in better team.


The only one who had preferential treatment is Alonso and even in his case, the car updates he recieved does not explain the discrepancies in the respective times of himself and Piquet/Grosjean. Hamilton recieved early updates twice and one one of those occassions Kovalainen prefered the older parts. Hamilton recieving those updates dont equate to the time gaps he left Kovalainen trailing in his wake.

I've seen post after post claiming Kubica is really good, but personally I've yet to see a really special drive. I've seen good drives, but I've not once sat up and said, WOW, that BMW should not be where it is. :eek: The main problem I have is when Kubica and Heidfeld are in clear air, one behind the other. Neither driver pulls away and leaves the other in his wake. IMO this is a sad indictment on Kubica, because he is rated more highly than Heidfeld and seeing the general performances of both drivers, I find this view of Kubica illogical.


#245 Muppetmad

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 19:43

^ I think Monaco 2008 was a spectacular drive from Kubica - with cars ahead of him falling off the course, he kept driving consistently fast and secured a stunning 2nd position. Japan 2008 with Kubica keeping Raikkonen behind in what was the clearly weaker car was an amazing drive too.

#246 kr964

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 20:22

I hope it's not Heidfeld.
If Heidfeld beats Kubica again at Renault, it would be 4 out of 5 years.
That might be the end of Robert's career. :(


We appreciate your concern but
right now it looks more like the driver whose F1 career is about to end is Heidfeld not Kubica...
How can it be, he always beats his teammates but there was never a leading team that wanted to hire him through all these years ?
Considering that many of his beaten teammates landed in top teams and soon after became World Champions it bodes well for the Kubica future. :wave:

Edited by kr964, 10 October 2009 - 01:26.


#247 metz

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 20:49

It has looked like this for Heidfeld twice before.
Mercedes wanted to hire him instead of Kimi, but Ron got to decide.
Kubica should do well, following in Alonso's footsteps.
Best to give him weak teamates and preferencial treatment at Renault so that he can establish a reputation.
Then he can move to Ferrari and win many more championships.

Oh, yes. And if Nick ends up at Toyota and beats Robert next year, I'm sure it will be that the Renault was a dog of a car.

Edited by metz, 09 October 2009 - 20:51.


#248 evo.x

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 21:04

It has looked like this for Heidfeld twice before.
Mercedes wanted to hire him instead of Kimi, but Ron got to decide.
Kubica should do well, following in Alonso's footsteps.
Best to give him weak teamates and preferencial treatment at Renault so that he can establish a reputation.
Then he can move to Ferrari and win many more championships.

Oh, yes. And if Nick ends up at Toyota and beats Robert next year, I'm sure it will be that the Renault was a dog of a car.


you don't need to be bitter nor sarcastic. almost everyone (except die-hard Kubica fans maybe) would agree, that both Robert and Nick are equally excellent drivers.
Nick will be around in 2010 probably...
I, for what it's worth, would love to see Nick along Robert in Renault next year, kicking some a$$es in a fast car.

Edited by evo.x, 09 October 2009 - 21:09.


#249 swiniodzik

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 21:10

Not again this Heidfeld vs. Kubica debate. While it's true that Nick has out-scored Robert during their time at BMW so far, he's losing down on wins and it's even on podiums. So one can say that Nick has beaten Robert, but also that the opposite has happened, or that they have been very even, and all the statements are actually true depending on subjective criteria.

What is clear for me is that many Kubica's fans under-rate Heidfeld, while the fans of the latter over-rate the importance of statistics records accordingly. Robert seems the faster of the two, his best results coming directly from raw pace, while Nick seems more consistent, with his bests coming from him not making mistakes in difficult conditions, a smart strategic call or some great race craft.

Since Kubica is much younger, I'd imagine he'll improve his consistency (which can be worse than Heidfeld's now, but much better than Hamilton's or Vettel's anyway) as the time goes by. So while Nick's consistency may soon not be enough to out-score the faster Kubica over a season, as a team-mate he'd still quick enough to push him, and his ability to always bring the car home would be worth gold for the team in terms of maximizing the WCC chances. I'd take Nick over Sutil, Glock or Kovalainen in a minute.

They do have different driving styles, but I don't buy the argument it'd disrupt the team as far as the car's development is concerned. Alonso and Hamilton have different styles too, and still it didn't hamper their own and their car's competitiveness through-out 2007. Kubica nad Heidfeld were a great pair at BMW, why couldn't they be again at Renault?

#250 Megan

Megan
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Posted 09 October 2009 - 21:29

Kubica nad Heidfeld were a great pair at BMW, why couldn't they be again at Renault?

Oh no, please. Heidfeld is a big complainer. I don't want to hear him complaining in German TV again. :mad:

Edited by Megan, 09 October 2009 - 22:22.