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Grands Prix from 1961-1962 & record cars


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#1 dudi1

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 18:30

Hello!

I am looking for plans, books, releated websites and picture reference for the cars below. Please contact me at d.toth_sk@hotmail.com or leave a reply here.

The list:

Porsche 787-
Lotus Mk18-
Lotus Mk18/21-
Walker T53-
Walker P99-
Walker 18-
Cooper T53-
Cooper T55-
Cooper T58-
BRM P48/57-
BRM P51-
BRM P57-
BRM P578-
De Tomaso F1 (002-OSCA)-
De Tomaso 801-
Gilby 1961-
Gilby 1962 F1 Special-
JBW-Climax Type 2-
Emeryson 1000-
Brabham BT4-
LDS Mk2 (Alfa Romeo engine)-
Lola-Climax Mk4 (BRGP42)-
Lola-Climax Mk4A (BRGP44)-

Thanks in advance for any help.

Edited by dudi1, 07 October 2009 - 20:47.


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#2 Gary C

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 19:09

not asking much, then?

#3 RA Historian

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 19:13

Pray tell, what for?

#4 PeterElleray

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 19:15

you forgot to ask for a cure for all known diseases after the list is sorted... :wave:

#5 dudi1

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 20:28

Pray tell, what for?


I would like to create all 1961 and 1962 cars in 3D with as much details as I am able to get. I need only the red coloured cars info, others I already found I guess. I think it will be easier to search one by one. I found the most of the blueprints by looking through many pages on the internet, but I try to contact famous scale-car-modelers or companies. The small teams and backmarkers are usually hard to find, even photos of them... Let´s start with data about PORSCHE 787 (also FORMULA 2).



Edited by dudi1, 06 October 2009 - 20:31.


#6 dudi1

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 20:31

So I tell you a little about myself as I am new here... My name is David Toth, and I am from Slovakia, 18 years old. I am interested in aerodynamics, drawing cars, visiting racing events with taking photographs of cars, GP history and F1 from my 7 years, modern automotive design and 3D modeling. I am studying at the School of Applied Arts. I like collecting books, pictures, drawings, videos, movies and documents about GP history. I am also creating a mod for racing simulators called Cool Classic Cars Collection-known CCCC or 4C, and I try to modeling GP cars in modern 3D software by most of the details (engines, frames). I try to simulate cars physics and sounds...


If you think I want too much, it´s okay :), if you try to help thanks much for your kindness in advance.

P.S. I attached some pictures of the old CCCC mod. Cars that I modeled there are low-poly done with a simple software, now I am using more advanced. I already modeled cars like Alfa Romeo Alfetta 158, Alfa Romeo Tipo 512, Auto Union Rekordwagen, Auto Union Type C Streamliner, Bugatti T32 Tank, Fiat Mephistopheles, Mercedes W125, Mercedes W25 Streamliner, Talbot T26C, Cooper T73... Maybe you already heard of them... I AM SURE :) And sorry for my English.

SCREEN ONE

SCREEN TWO

SCREEN THREE

Edited by dudi1, 06 October 2009 - 20:36.


#7 VWV

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 22:41

Here's some web sites to try

http://www.vsrnonlin.../MM_Plans_1.htm

http://www.vsrnonlin...CM/CM_Plans.htm

http://www.vsrnonlin...dex_3Views.html

http://www.smcars.net/

http://the-blueprint...lueprints/cars/

#8 macoran

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 23:23

So I tell you a little about myself as I am new here... My name is David Toth, and I am from Slovakia, 18 years old. I am interested in aerodynamics, drawing cars, visiting racing events with taking photographs of cars, GP history and F1 from my 7 years, modern automotive design and 3D modeling. I am studying at the School of Applied Arts. I like collecting books, pictures, drawings, videos, movies and documents about GP history. I am also creating a mod for racing simulators called Cool Classic Cars Collection-known CCCC or 4C, and I try to modeling GP cars in modern 3D software by most of the details (engines, frames). I try to simulate cars physics and sounds...


If you think I want too much, it´s okay :), if you try to help thanks much for your kindness in advance.

P.S. I attached some pictures of the old CCCC mod. Cars that I modeled there are low-poly done with a simple software, now I am using more advanced. I already modeled cars like Alfa Romeo Alfetta 158, Alfa Romeo Tipo 512, Auto Union Rekordwagen, Auto Union Type C Streamliner, Bugatti T32 Tank, Fiat Mephistopheles, Mercedes W125, Mercedes W25 Streamliner, Talbot T26C, Cooper T73... Maybe you already heard of them... I AM SURE :) And sorry for my English.

SCREEN ONE

SCREEN TWO

SCREEN THREE


Your screen shots don't work

#9 RogerFrench

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:49

SCREEN ONE

SCREEN TWO

SCREEN THREE


Links are forbidden



#10 dudi1

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 10:32

Links are forbidden


Try this then:

http://www.racesimul...creens/375.html

#11 dudi1

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 10:34

Here's some web sites to try

http://www.vsrnonlin.../MM_Plans_1.htm

http://www.vsrnonlin...CM/CM_Plans.htm

http://www.vsrnonlin...dex_3Views.html

http://www.smcars.net/

http://the-blueprint...lueprints/cars/


Thanks much the vsrn link are useful. Please but try to help me find Porsche 787 GP (Formula 2) car plans.

#12 dudi1

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 20:37

Ok thanks guys for help about 787. Next are Walker F1 cars. I need some picture reference or rare plans of them. Anyone?

And here are the links of the cars in the mod:

http://www.racesimul...creens/375.html

Edited by dudi1, 07 October 2009 - 20:39.


#13 f1steveuk

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 14:47

Can't say what you want is there, but it might be worth looking

http://carblueprints.../other_cars.htm

#14 Tim Murray

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 15:43

Here are a couple of photos of the Walker, taken at the 2006 Silverstone Classic:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#15 dudi1

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 21:16

Thanks you Tim and Steve, great help. Is there some info about the restorers of the Walker?

#16 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:04

David, I'm not sure who restored the Walker, but I'm confident that someone on this forum will know the answer.

#17 dudi1

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 18:21

David, I'm not sure who restored the Walker, but I'm confident that someone on this forum will know the answer.


I really dunno but I find an article with many restored cars:

Equally enjoyable was our re-acquaintance with such outlandish machines such as the Tec-Mec (here seen in front of the JBW, with a cockpit look-in here), the peculiar 250F 'fuoricentro' (but don't start believing what's written here - and here!), or the striking ERA E-type. And then we had our first eye-to-eye contact with some very interesting concepts as the Connaught C-Type, shaped as a toothpaste tube (which ran incredibly quick in the hands of Martin Stretton), the unraced Walker-Climax and one of Doug Serrurier's Alfa-engined LDS specials.


http://www.forix.com/8w/reviv01.html

#18 dudi1

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 18:23

Here are a couple of photos of the Walker, taken at the 2006 Silverstone Classic:

Posted Image

Posted Image


As you can see in the list, there are 3 Walkers- Walker T53, Walker P99, Walker 18

I looked for these cars in google and found some pics:
Posted Image -T53
Posted Image -P99
Posted Image -18

So I think that Walker is a private team of Rob Walker, and the cars are re-made Cooper T53, Ferguson P99 and a Lotus 18 cars. Am I right? I didn´t really checked it, but the cars remind me those I mentioned, and I don´t know if Walker has made any changes on the chassis or the engine. And please if you got some historic pictures, links on archives about it or sources for Walkers, please send me the by a PM or upload here.

Here are a couple of photos of the Walker, taken at the 2006 Silverstone Classic:


Which Walker type is on the photos posted by Tim Murray?

Edited by dudi1, 10 October 2009 - 18:25.


#19 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 18:37

The car in the photos I posted is the only one actually built by the Walker team and bearing the name Walker. The others you mention were, as you say, made by other firms (Cooper, Lotus, Ferguson) and entered by Rob Walker.

Edited by Tim Murray, 10 October 2009 - 18:43.


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#20 dudi1

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 19:22

The car in the photos I posted is the only one actually built by the Walker team and bearing the name Walker. The others you mention were, as you say, made by other firms (Cooper, Lotus, Ferguson) and entered by Rob Walker.


Do you know whats the type name of the "original" Walker car?

Ok, so great that I find out that the Walker cars in the list are cars for what I actually may have some info. But the problem is with the Cooper T53, so also the Walker T53. I only found one blueprint for it, and it is pretty bad, the proportions I mean, and the scan quality:

Posted Image

Please have somebody good better references and info about the measures of the actual car?

PS Here are the both cars though:

Posted Image

Edited by dudi1, 10 October 2009 - 19:24.


#21 David McKinney

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 19:52

There was no such car as a Walker T53
The Walker Team raced a Cooper T53 - and many other cars
They also built their own car, the Walker, which nevr raced in period

#22 D-Type

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 19:59

David,
This is back in the period when someone could buy a car from a manufacturer and enter it in a GP as a private entrant. Some customers, particularly some Maserati owners, paid the factory to service and prepare their cars. Some customers prepared and developed the cars and made modifications. Rob Walker was one of the more successful private entrants, principally because Stirling Moss drove for him. Over the years the Walker Team raced several different cars. Here's a potted history:

In 1957 Rob Walker paid for the development of a 2 litre Climax engine to put into the Formula 2 T43 Cooper and worked closely with Cooper.
The 1958 wins by Stirling Moss (T43) and Maurice Trintignant(T45) were in Cooper cars that were identical to the factory cars.
In 1959 there was some doubt whether the 2.5 litre Climax engine would be available in time so the Walker Team put a BRM engine into a T51 chassis but only raced it once as they were able to obtain a 2.5 litre Climax so they were running T51-Climax cars as were the works team. There were doubts about the ability of the ERSA Citroen-based gearbox to take the extra power so the Walker team fitted a gearbox made by Colotti while the factory team developed the ERSA gearbox.
The Walker team also ran Borgwrd-engined Coopers in Formula 2 while the factory and the other private owners used Climax engines
In 1960 the Walker Team started with a Cooper T51 similar to the works cars but later purchased a Lotus 18 which Moss raced from Monaco onwards. The Lotus factory also raced Lotus 18's. The Cooper factory team later used the T53 "Lowline"
In 1961 the Lotus works cars were Lotus 21's but their sponsors, Esso, forbade them from selling the latest cars to the Walker team as they, or rather Stirling Moss, were sponsored by BP. So the Walker team continued with their Lotus 18. As the year went on they modified their car to resemble the Lotus 21 with 21-like rear suspension and bodywork. This car is often referred to as a Lotus 18/21. the car was later modified to take a V8 Climax engine and was the car in which Moss had his career-ending crash at Goodwood in 1962.
In 1961 Ferguson Engineering developed the 4-wheel drive P99. As they had no racing team, the Walker team entered it for Jack Fairman in the British GP and for Moss in the Oulton Park Gold Cup which he won.

Like all customers Walker were always a step behind the works cars. They therefore decided to build their own car. This was designed and developed by the team's chief mechanic, Alf Francis. I believe work started in 1959 and continued into 1960 when the Lotus 18 was purchased. As it was heavier and slower than the Lotus it was never raced. A second lighter car was started for 1961 but never completed. It is one of these two cars, I believe the first one, that was recently restored and now races in historic racing which is pictured here. This car is the only one called a Walker.

The Walker team continued for some years after Stirling Moss's 1962 accident running a variety of Lotus and Brabhamcars. the highlight was when Jo Siffert won the 1968 British GP in a Rob Walker Lotus 49.

What the picture you have posted shows are Cooper factory (green) and Walker (blue) Coopers. There were several other private teams also running Coopers, including Atkins, Scuderia Centro Sud, Bruce McLaren and Jack Lewis. A search for these names will produce photos of some of them

#23 dudi1

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 14:41

David,
This is back in the period when someone could buy a car from a manufacturer and enter it in a GP as a private entrant. Some customers, particularly some Maserati owners, paid the factory to service and prepare their cars. Some customers...


Thanks much for the full-range info. It´s a great help.

I am still unable to find much more about the reference of the original "never-raced" Walker, and the more famous Cooper T53 (T55 and T58).

#24 David McKinney

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 15:48

Cooper Types 55 and 58 were raced in F1 only by the works, so you won't find any references to Walker examples :)

#25 dudi1

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 17:49

Cooper Types 55 and 58 were raced in F1 only by the works, so you won't find any references to Walker examples :)


Yeah I know, but I am looking for factory cars at the moment. There are lots of restoriations and scale models of it (Cooper t53), but the isn´t a correct top, rear and front view.

Edited by dudi1, 11 October 2009 - 17:50.


#26 dudi1

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 22:32

Yeah I know, but I am looking for factory cars at the moment. There are lots of restoriations and scale models of it (Cooper t53), but the isn´t a correct top, rear and front view.


After a very long search I am still unable to find any plans or good photos of Coopers T53, T55 and T58... Now I am looking for more info about De Tomaso F1 (002-OSCA) De Tomaso 801. Any info about these cars? What engines did they use and did they had their own chassis? Some photos maybe?

Edited by dudi1, 18 October 2009 - 22:38.


#27 D-Type

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 22:52

De Tomaso mainly made chassis. In 1961 two cars used a Conrero-developed Alfa Romeo engine and 4 used OSCA engines. The 1962 De Tomaso 801 used a De Tomaso flat 8 engine. In 1963 De Tomaso chassis used a variety of engines: as well as the 801, one car used an OSCA engine, 2 used Mmaserati 150S engines, one an Alfa Romeo engine, one a Holbay-Ford and one a Dino Ferrari V6.

The cars ran mainly in non-championship races in Italy