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Stat attack- Fastest Laps


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#1 thiscocks

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 07:35

If anyone is interested:

Fastest laps this year with two races to go are split between 10 different drivers...

From looking at previous seasons I can only see that 1982 equals this with 10 different drivers picking up fastest laps also.

I haven't looked further back accept for checking the competitive 1975 season which also equals it at 10. Anyone else feel free to prove otherwise (I havent got time!)

I think we could have an all-time record by the end of this year if Kimi steps up to his usual Fastest lap scoring...

F-laps so far in 2009:

Rosberg
Button (2)
Barrichello (2)
Trulli
Massa
Vettel (2)
Alonso (2)
Webber (2)
Glock
Sutil


Tim



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#2 gm914

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 07:49

Interesting. It would be nice to see figures over the last decade. I'd like to see the Schumacher era and how many drivers earned FL's against him.
:up:

#3 thiscocks

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:21

Interesting. It would be nice to see figures over the last decade. I'd like to see the Schumacher era and how many drivers earned FL's against him.
:up:


Schumacher never really dominated in fastest laps over a season looking at the stats, accept in 2004 scoring 10 (against Barrichellos 4) and in 2002 where he had 7 (against Barrichellos 5)

For instance here is the 2000 season where he was champion:

1 Australia R.Barrichello Ferrari F1-2000
2 Brazil M.Schumacher Ferrari F1-2000
3 San Marino Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15
4 Great Britain Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15
5 Spain Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15
6 Europe M.Schumacher Ferrari F1-2000
7 Monaco Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15
8 Canada Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15
9 France David Coulthard McLaren MP4-15
10 Austria David Coulthard McLaren MP4-15
11 Germany R.Barrichello Ferrari F1-2000
12 Hungary Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15
13 Belgium R.Barrichello Ferrari F1-2000
14 Italy Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15
15 USA David Coulthard McLaren MP4-15
16 Japan Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15
17 Malaysia Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-15


#4 gm914

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:32

Look at that :eek: Only Macca and the Fez, huh?
In this case, I'm more than happy to see different drivers like this year.
Thanks for the info.

BTW do you have a link to this stuff, or are you compiling it from diff. sources?

#5 thiscocks

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:34

Look at that :eek: Only Macca and the Fez, huh?
In this case, I'm more than happy to see different drivers like this year.
Thanks for the info.

BTW do you have a link to this stuff, or are you compiling it from diff. sources?


no worries. It's all from Forix which is linked on this site. You have to pay for an annual access to all the info. Good for the boring afternoons at work!


#6 jeze

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 14:21

no worries. It's all from Forix which is linked on this site. You have to pay for an annual access to all the info. Good for the boring afternoons at work!


Haha, indeed :clap:

#7 Madras

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:05

Most likely one to add their name to the list is Kimi.

#8 Atreiu

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:09

It's funny how Hamilton pushed so hard at some races and still didn't get a FL.
I never understood how Glock got his FL at Valencia.
:p

#9 tormave

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:11

Kimi had the fastest lap in Suzuka before the 2nd pit stops and the Finnish commentators were saying that if it stayed that way, it would be a new record. Then first Vettel and then Webber when half a sec faster after the last stops. After the race they asked Kimi about it and his comment was that the difference in FL time was representative of the pace difference between the Ferrari and the Red Bull.

#10 Nonesuch

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:16

Interesting. It would be nice to see figures over the last decade. I'd like to see the Schumacher era and how many drivers earned FL's against him.
:up:


Here are the, as far as I know correct, number of fastest laps of the 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 seasons. The five Schumacher-championship years:

1. M. Schumacher - 27 (Ferrari)
2. R. Barrichello - 15 (Ferrari)
3. M. Hakkinen - 12 (McLaren)
4. J.P. Montoya - 11 (Williams)
5. D. Coulthard - 7 (McLaren)
6. R. Schumacher - 6 (Williams)
7. K. Raikkonen - 6 (McLaren)
8. F. Alonso - 1 (Renault)

Edited by Nonesuch, 07 October 2009 - 17:16.


#11 Bishy

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:16

It's funny how Hamilton pushed so hard at some races and still didn't get a FL.



That's been discussed many times over nonetheless a very fascinating statistic - how can a driver so fast (see his wins / pole stats) not have many fastest lap records?

Is it just because he's focussed on beng fast for the entire race as opposed to having 1 stint where you just drive like the devil resulting in a fastest lap?

Which is better, consistency or tire-wrecking speed?

#12 Birelman

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:35

I think Raikkonen's lack of Fast Lap this year speaks volumes of the equipment he's driving.


#13 Clatter

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:39

That's been discussed many times over nonetheless a very fascinating statistic - how can a driver so fast (see his wins / pole stats) not have many fastest lap records?

Is it just because he's focussed on beng fast for the entire race as opposed to having 1 stint where you just drive like the devil resulting in a fastest lap?

Which is better, consistency or tire-wrecking speed?

The guys that are generally racing at the front tend not to be pushing in the final stint when the track is often at it's quickest, so I'm not overly surprsied. If there were points for fastest lap then I'm sure that stat would be vastly different.

#14 Craven Morehead

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:47

I think Raikkonen's lack of Fast Lap this year speaks volumes of the equipment he's driving.


qft

#15 stevewf1

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:03

By my numbers, if all the fastest lap times from the eight drivers who have set a time in every race this year were added up:

1. Vettel - 23:13.996 (1:32.933 avg)
2. Barrichello - 23:14.867 (1:32.991)
3. Rosberg - 23:15.846 (1:33.056)
4. Raikkonen - 23:18.970 (1:33.265)
5. Alonso - 23:19.360 (1:33.291)
6. Heidfeld - 23:23.115 (1:33.541)
7. Nakajima - 23:26.910 (1:33.794)
8. Fisichella - 23:31.839 (1:34.123)




#16 Crestie

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:06

Or look at it this way...

Renault Engine - 6 x FL
Mercedes Engine - 5 x FL
Toyota Engine - 3 x FL
Ferrari Engine - 1 x FL

Not the statistic you'd expect given the bad press the Renault lump gets.

#17 The Truth

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:11

I think Raikkonen's lack of Fast Lap this year speaks volumes of the equipment he's driving.


And his career total fastest laps also speak volumes for the equipment hes driven.

#18 saudoso

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:12

I think Raikkonen's lack of Fast Lap this year speaks volumes of the equipment he's driving.


Tells more about KR himself. FM managed one, with 4 races less. And this stat was used to prove that KR was better than FM in the FM X KR vol1 thread,


#19 Brawn BGP 001

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:16

No Kimi. :smoking:

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#20 mountford

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:27

That's been discussed many times over nonetheless a very fascinating statistic - how can a driver so fast (see his wins / pole stats) not have many fastest lap records?

Is it just because he's focussed on beng fast for the entire race as opposed to having 1 stint where you just drive like the devil resulting in a fastest lap?

Which is better, consistency or tire-wrecking speed?


:up:

Race craft>>>>>>>>>>>>speed

Hamilton>>>>>>>>>>Vettel

#21 Brawn BGP 001

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:31

Here are the, as far as I know correct, number of fastest laps of the 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 seasons. The five Schumacher-championship years:

1. M. Schumacher - 27 (Ferrari)
2. R. Barrichello - 15 (Ferrari)
3. M. Hakkinen - 12 (McLaren)
4. J.P. Montoya - 11 (Williams)
5. D. Coulthard - 7 (McLaren)
6. R. Schumacher - 6 (Williams)
7. K. Raikkonen - 6 (McLaren)
8. F. Alonso - 1 (Renault)

I expected Montoya to be second TBH. Thanks for the stats. :up:

#22 Madras

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:32

:up:

Race craft>>>>>>>>>>>>speed

Hamilton>>>>>>>>>>Vettel


Isnt it just that the Red Bull is harder on tyres? Hamilton has been hard on tyres in previous seasons.

#23 stevewf1

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:48

That's been discussed many times over nonetheless a very fascinating statistic - how can a driver so fast (see his wins / pole stats) not have many fastest lap records?

Is it just because he's focussed on beng fast for the entire race as opposed to having 1 stint where you just drive like the devil resulting in a fastest lap?

Which is better, consistency or tire-wrecking speed?


Senna is another example. He had only 19 Fastest Laps in his entire career.



#24 stevewf1

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 20:23

In terms of Fastest Lap% (fastest laps divided by "starts") over an entire career, since 1950, this is what I come up with:

(Not counting Indy 500; Depends on what a "start" is; 110 total 1950 - Japan 2009)

1. Hasemi - 100.00% (1 Fastest lap / 1 start)
2. Fangio - 45.10% (23 / 51)
3. Clark - 38.89% (28 / 72)
4. Ascari - 38.71% (12 / 31)
5. M. Schumacher - 30.52% (76 / 249)
6. Moss - 28.79% (19 / 66)
7. Gonzalez - 23.08% (6 / 26)
8. Raikkonen - 22.73% (35 / 154)
9. Prost - 20.60% (41 / 199)
10. D. Hill - 16.52% (19 /115)

12. Hakkinen - 15.53% (25 / 161)
17. Montoya - 12.77% (12 / 94)
20. G. Villeneuve - 11.94% (8 / 67)
21. Senna - 11.80% (19 / 161)
25. Massa - 10.53% (12 / 114)
30. Alonso - 9.49% (13 / 137)
43. Barrichello - 6.01% (17 / 283)
44. Hamilton - 6.00% (3 / 50)
55. Vettel - 4.88% (2 / 41)
67. Kovalianen - 4.00% (2 / 50)
76. N. Rosberg - 2.94% (2 / 68)
77. Glock - 2.78% (1 / 36)
84=. Sutil - 2.00% (1 / 50)
94. Webber - 1.47% (2 / 136)
103. Heidfeld - 1.21% (2 / 165)
105. Button - 1.19% (2 / 168)
106. Fisichella - 0.88% (2 / 227)
110. Trulli - 0.47% (1 / 214)



#25 glorius&victorius

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 20:33

i think fastest lap should be rewarded with a point... or at least .5 point... will make drivers push during races. yes true that the torro rosso's would not get points but still...
i would not go as far as rewarding pole positions with points because getting pole these days is easy

#26 Atreiu

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 20:36

Unless they are stuck in traffic, they all push before their pit stops. No need to give 'em points for that.

#27 IzzyMoreno

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 20:40

And his career total fastest laps also speak volumes for the equipment hes driven.

Oh, really?
Haha.
Pretty obvious that you can go faster with a fast car...

#28 brunopascal

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 21:03

Senna is another example. He had only 19 Fastest Laps in his entire career.

In his days there was no refuelling, so the fastest laps generally came at the end. If a guy was in control of the race with 10 laps left or smth there was no need to push, he'd done his pushing early on w heavier car.

IIRC, Prost many times started "slow" and later worked his way up to victory setting fast laps later in the race.

Edited by brunopascal, 07 October 2009 - 21:05.


#29 craftverk

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 22:09

I think Raikkonen's lack of Fast Lap this year speaks volumes of the equipment he's driving.

The car's not fast enough for Raikkonen to be slow during the race and bang in a fast lap when there is low fuel

Heck at least the F60 has one fastest lap (Felipe Massa) where as the MP4-24 has had none.

But really, fastest lap comes down to a combination of things, how soft the chassis is to the tyres, how smooth a driver is on the tyres, how much fuel is in the tank, how soft the tyre compound is, and how much raw speed the car and driver have. I think you'll find that KR's fastest lap times were all a biproduct of the factors i stated if you examine his performances last year

#30 RSNS

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 23:32

In terms of Fastest Lap% (fastest laps divided by "starts") over an entire career, since 1950, this is what I come up with:

(Not counting Indy 500; Depends on what a "start" is; 110 total 1950 - Japan 2009)

1. Hasemi - 100.00% (1 Fastest lap / 1 start)
2. Fangio - 45.10% (23 / 51)
3. Clark - 38.89% (28 / 72)
4. Ascari - 38.71% (12 / 31)
5. M. Schumacher - 30.52% (76 / 249)
6. Moss - 28.79% (19 / 66)
7. Gonzalez - 23.08% (6 / 26)
8. Raikkonen - 22.73% (35 / 154)
9. Prost - 20.60% (41 / 199)
10. D. Hill - 16.52% (19 /115)

12. Hakkinen - 15.53% (25 / 161)
17. Montoya - 12.77% (12 / 94)
20. G. Villeneuve - 11.94% (8 / 67)
21. Senna - 11.80% (19 / 161)
25. Massa - 10.53% (12 / 114)
30. Alonso - 9.49% (13 / 137)
43. Barrichello - 6.01% (17 / 283)
44. Hamilton - 6.00% (3 / 50)
55. Vettel - 4.88% (2 / 41)
67. Kovalianen - 4.00% (2 / 50)
76. N. Rosberg - 2.94% (2 / 68)
77. Glock - 2.78% (1 / 36)
84=. Sutil - 2.00% (1 / 50)
94. Webber - 1.47% (2 / 136)
103. Heidfeld - 1.21% (2 / 165)
105. Button - 1.19% (2 / 168)
106. Fisichella - 0.88% (2 / 227)
110. Trulli - 0.47% (1 / 214)


Hasemi cannot really count, as he was driving in his home circuit and we have no further information about him (recall that Carlos Reutemann was in pole in his own country circuit but he was not an extraordinary qualifyer for the rest of his carrer).
But that said, of today's drivers, only Schumacher and Raikkonen make it into the top ten. Quite impressive. A pity Raikkonen cannot be consistently fast.

Who's 11th on your list?

..

Edited by RSNS, 07 October 2009 - 23:33.


#31 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 23:47

That's been discussed many times over nonetheless a very fascinating statistic - how can a driver so fast (see his wins / pole stats) not have many fastest lap records?

Is it just because he's focussed on beng fast for the entire race as opposed to having 1 stint where you just drive like the devil resulting in a fastest lap?

Which is better, consistency or tire-wrecking speed?


I think Hamiltons speed lies in his ability to maximise opportunities when it counts. Fastest lap of the race rarely means anything in the bigger scheme of things. Its much more important to secure a good qualifying slot and run at the front. Its possible to win without being the fastest over a lap. In the race its much more important to run the majority of your laps within small window of deviation. With this is mind setting fastest lap of the race without winning or being near the front should be seen as a weakness IMO. If you can go that fast why arent you winning? Conversely to win without being the fastest over a lap is very impressive.

i think fastest lap should be rewarded with a point... or at least .5 point... will make drivers push during races. yes true that the torro rosso's would not get points but still...
i would not go as far as rewarding pole positions with points because getting pole these days is easy


Been discussed many times. Its not a good idea because you would get drivers hanging back to set fast laps near the end of the race. They would avoid each other, not try and overtake each other. Qualifying is for fast laps.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 07 October 2009 - 23:53.


#32 stevewf1

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 00:18

Hasemi cannot really count, as he was driving in his home circuit and we have no further information about him (recall that Carlos Reutemann was in pole in his own country circuit but he was not an extraordinary qualifyer for the rest of his carrer).
But that said, of today's drivers, only Schumacher and Raikkonen make it into the top ten. Quite impressive. A pity Raikkonen cannot be consistently fast.

Who's 11th on your list?

..


Hasemi is definitely an anomaly, but that's the way it's played out. 11th is Nigel Mansell - 16.04% (30 / 187)...


#33 alecc

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 01:15

It's funny how Hamilton pushed so hard at some races and still didn't get a FL.
I never understood how Glock got his FL at Valencia.
:p


Like Webber in Japan this year, track with much rubber on it after all practices, qualies and almost whole race, new tyres, little fuel.

#34 gm914

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 01:24

Re- Webber in Jpn. After realising the new chassis' headrest was loose and Webber had to pit again-and again, they realised the race was over for them, so decided to test components for Brazil.
I believe it was after the safetycar the team pulled Webber in to give him fresh rubber and no fuel to specifically set the FL.
A consolation of sort, kind of an anomoly, but the Triple Crown sealed for RBR so Vettel could cruise to victory.

#35 Arion

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 06:17

And his career total fastest laps also speak volumes for the equipment hes driven.


:smoking: It's actually a good one, hehe.




#36 The Truth

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 06:42

That's been discussed many times over nonetheless a very fascinating statistic - how can a driver so fast (see his wins / pole stats) not have many fastest lap records?

Is it just because he's focussed on beng fast for the entire race as opposed to having 1 stint where you just drive like the devil resulting in a fastest lap?

Which is better, consistency or tire-wrecking speed?


The main reason is because Hamilton has rarely ever had the out right fastest car.

#37 Music Lover

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 07:01

And his career total fastest laps also speak volumes for the equipment hes driven.

The only interesting item is to compare with team mates.
Using same car, who has most FL?
Kimi vs. DC in Mac
Kimi vs. Massa in Ferrari

Do you have stats?

How is it in Brawn between Button and Baricello?

#38 raiseyourfistfor

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 07:02

The main reason is because Hamilton has rarely ever had the out right fastest car.


No even as a Lewis fan I know that Lewis has often had a very good car, he doesn't get fastest laps because he drives at 130% during the whole stint and the tires are past their best when the car is light. He often gets fastest laps in the beginning of the first stint when all cars on new tires and alot of fuel though. That is just his style, hes pushing hard all the time unlike some other drivers.

#39 The Truth

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 07:15

No even as a Lewis fan I know that Lewis has often had a very good car, he doesn't get fastest laps because he drives at 130% during the whole stint and the tires are past their best when the car is light. He often gets fastest laps in the beginning of the first stint when all cars on new tires and alot of fuel though. That is just his style, hes pushing hard all the time unlike some other drivers.


I know hes often had a very good car, but I said 'out right fastest car'. I dont think his tyre wear is the reason for lack of fastest laps. We dont even know he wears his tyres more than the rest. Alonso is also another very quick driver with a low number of fastest laps. I think its simply because they lack the fastest car, because generally the fastest car will set the fastest lap over the long duration of a race.

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#40 Music Lover

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 08:00

We dont even know he wears his tyres more than the rest.

Based on how aggressive he turn in and often takes the car into OS, we can draw some conclusions...
And what happened in the last few races in 2007?
With the full fuel load 2010, this can be an issue for him.

#41 craftverk

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:29

Based on how aggressive he turn in and often takes the car into OS, we can draw some conclusions...
And what happened in the last few races in 2007?
With the full fuel load 2010, this can be an issue for him.

Hamilton is not a rookie anymore, his driving has changed quite a bit. Wasn't it Ferrari who said that Hamilton would struggle with tyre wear without traction control? He goes and wins the championship.

In the last few races, he won in the wet in Fuji, retired in China and had gear box gremlins in Brazil which ultimately lost him the title.

#42 aditya-now

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:57

If anyone is interested:

Fastest laps this year with two races to go are split between 10 different drivers...

From looking at previous seasons I can only see that 1982 equals this with 10 different drivers picking up fastest laps also.

I haven't looked further back accept for checking the competitive 1975 season which also equals it at 10. Anyone else feel free to prove otherwise (I havent got time!)

I think we could have an all-time record by the end of this year if Kimi steps up to his usual Fastest lap scoring...

F-laps so far in 2009:

Rosberg
Button (2)
Barrichello (2)
Trulli
Massa
Vettel (2)
Alonso (2)
Webber (2)
Glock
Sutil


Tim


That is quite interesting, as there is no Kimi Raikkönen in there. Last year still he had a whole bunch of fastest laps. Massa managed to get one despite being out already for five races...


#43 TT6

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:16

Logical conclusion is of course that when Räikkönen did lots of them it was unnecessary showing out, now the lack of fastest laps must mean he's lost his speed.

#44 Madras

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 14:31

Logical conclusion is of course that when Räikkönen did lots of them it was unnecessary showing out, now the lack of fastest laps must mean he's lost his speed.


Hard to tell what this post was trying to say, but it wasnt logical.

#45 RSNS

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 14:47

If raw speed over one lap is the issue, a better stat than % pole is mean rank of fastest lap. Suppose a driver usually achieves the 3rd fastest lap in a race: that would give him 3rd place.

If anyone is interested and has access to the data, it can be very simply done in a data management program (Statistica, SPSS, and others). It can also be done in Excel, but it takes longer, using the rank function. Best way is probably to just do it by hand: look at the time sheets, write down a driver's position for all the races you want, and average the result (say, ten races, divide by ten).

You can also make it metrical, but it will be more time consuming.

I hope this is not a thread killer.

Edited by RSNS, 08 October 2009 - 14:48.


#46 ZZei

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 14:51

That is quite interesting, as there is no Kimi Raikkönen in there. Last year still he had a whole bunch of fastest laps. Massa managed to get one despite being out already for five races...

Cutting trough the chicanes in monaco, where raikkonen brought ferrari their first podium of the year.

#47 rko281

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 15:12

Cutting trough the chicanes in monaco, where raikkonen brought ferrari their first podium of the year.


Massa's fastest lap was indeed in Monaco, where he was warned several times about cutting the chicane.

#48 Atreiu

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 15:42

What lap was he warned?
He posted his fastest lap on lap 50 and his second pit was on lap 50.
They didn't wait 50 laps to warn him, did they?

#49 Colombo

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 15:47

Massa's fastest lap was indeed in Monaco, where he was warned several times about cutting the chicane.

I don't see a big problem with that considering that Räikkönen's Spa victory came after he passed two cars outside the track and then blocked another car after sliding off the track.

GC

Edited by Colombo, 08 October 2009 - 16:19.


#50 Birelman

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 15:53

And his career total fastest laps also speak volumes for the equipment hes driven.


That's probably the single most uneducated coment you could have made for this particular case.

Cars don't drive themselves. :wave:

Likewise we could say someone's 7 WDCs can speak volumes about the machinery he drove :rolleyes: