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gorgeous juniors


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#1 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 22:40

During some recent studies on Formula Juniors I realized that some of the juniors were really gorgeous...!
I am sure everyone agrees.....:)

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Rainer

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#2 jarama

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 23:39

Rainer,

the Lotus, in particular, is very beautiful.

#3 Don Capps

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 03:18

I don't recall them looking quite that 'nice' in the paddock or on the grid back then....

The Bernard Cowdrey Formula Junior book is one of those I often just like to look at since it brings back lots of memories.


#4 dbw

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 03:57

neat cars!! i tried to sit in a lotus [similar to # 12] and even as a small guy i found it to be a press fit...
btw....don,henry manney was an old friend of mine and something seems to sound familiar....i wonder.....i should start a thread.."strange places i've found myself with h.manney"...could be interesting.

#5 Don Capps

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 15:21

DB,

Really? WOW! I first met HNM III in Europe in the late 50's early 60's. He was quite the Character and an absolute hoot to watch in action. I did see him a few times in the 70's when I in California. I was not surprised one bit to discover that Our Scribe was once a dancer. While Jenks was an interesting sort of Character, Manney was a capital C Character.... They truly don't make like that any more.

Did he ever tell you about his journey with Black Jack Brabham and their visit to Columbia, South Carolina to visit some distance relatives of Brabham's? Apparently it was something like the Voyage of the Damned...

He was one of the best Scribes to ever peck out a story. HNM along with Jenks, Bernard Cahier, and Pete Lyons are among the Elite Scribes in my book. Few, however, were as witty and as articulate as HNM. His stroke and premature death deprived us a wonderful man. We are the better for having walked with him.

I can only imagine too well the sorts of places HNM wound up in!

#6 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 15:46

Yes Don, this is common in all kinds of restored vehicles.
You can see it with WWII warbirds and antique roadcars too...
Their finish is much higher when restored than in their heyday...

Rainer

#7 dbw

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 16:53

rainer;
true in most cases....my experience an research has shown that many competition cars were finished to a fairly high degree[millers to an astonishing level]of elegance.....but here it comes....when delivered!!!! after the first race their condition worsened rapidly.....my experience with bugattis revealed that a newly delivered gp car while not to pebble beach standards , was well presented and well detailed.a few current restorers are now realizing the difference and adjusting their work.....unfortunatly as prices remain astronomical,we will still see disturbingly over restored cars.

#8 dbw

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 17:12

don

interestingly enough,most of the time i spent with henry we never talked about cars!!!his [and ann's] years with the ballet,swiss baking, greek tycoons,japanese food,his utter disgust with the publishing world[r&t in particular],camping,architecture....i can't really describe him as a car nut but more of a reluctant journalist who really wanted to be young again and dance.my wife and i miss him .he was truly a unique light for us.

#9 Barry Lake

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 17:27

Don
Where can I learn more about the Henry Manney trip to South Carolina with Jack Brabham?

#10 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 17:39

Somehow from what I have seen, the german examples in the same category were far from elegant...
I wonder why...?
They looked more like backyard specials.

Rainer

#11 Wolf

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 00:50

Can any of you shed some light, for us (I hope there is 'us' and not 'just me' :)) ignorant and uninformed, on FJ cars? Like tech specifications and all other interesting info. Cars are beautiful and I would certainly like to know more on them and Formulae they were run under.

#12 FlagMan

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 12:29

Re - the 'pristine' condition of restored racing cars

Perhaps this is yet another reason why the owners should get out and race them - after a few races they will revert to a more authentic look...

#13 Don Capps

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 15:07

DB,

Sorta the same here. I never got an real clue as to what R&T did or didn't do, but he was not happy with them for whatever reason -- I can't exactly remember when the Bonds finally sold out to CBS Publishing, but he had some pithy remarks on the current state of the magazine business. Indeed, not until after his death did I remember that he once owned a GTO -- as in 250 GTO, not a Goat...

Lots of chatting about various places in Europe and the food, sights, and so forth. Only once in awhile would he discuss racing & cars -- usually when I mentioned it -- and then only briefly and always some funny story which took us elsewhere.

I wasn't too surprised to realize what an agonizing ordeal writing an article was for him. I can relate...

Somewhere in an R&T from about the early 60's HNM writes about his journey with Brabham. I think Coumbia was a side trip, but the two had many adventures.

And speaking of road Trips, there was a trip made by the editor of US car magazine in the 1960/1961 period down the East Coast in a -- ready for this? -- Maserati Birdcage! I think it too had a South Carolina adventure, only in the Latta area. Young guy, not long out of the military and named Karl something was involved in it if I recall....

#14 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 15:58

This class was invented by Count Giovanni "Johnny" Lurani.
It started out as a national Formula in his native Italy before it got recognized by FIA and became international late in 1958. Lurani wanted a cheap singleseater formula for 1000cc engines and with most parts coming from a homologated standard roadcar. At the end of 1957 the Italian Competition Committee decided on Italian 1100cc engines. (i.e. a Fiat and Lancia 4-cylinder OHV engine).
So this was the case in 1958 for the Italian series.
For the 1959 the series had become international and the rules were altered somewhat.
1000 cc and 360 kg or
1100 cc and 400 kg.
These rules were very popular among manufacturers and engines from BMC, Standard, Renault, Fiat, Peugeot, Panhard, Ford, DKW, Wartburg, Hansa-Goliath, Simca, Lancia, Saab, Triumph and several more.
The technical variety was enormous, you had 2-stroke, 4-stroke,two/three or four cylinders. Front engines. Rear engines. Front wheel drive, rear wheel drive.
The success was instant. The engines should be homologated and of OHV construction and the crankshaft should be original. Fiat dominated in 1959 and they claimed 75-85 bhp from their 1100cc engine. Already by 1962 100 bhp per litre was the norm and the engines had become highly tuned and all internals including the crankshaft had become highly specialized. The best engine by 1962 was the Cosworth tweaked Ford 105E "Kent" engine. Gearboxes were Volkswagen casings with typically Porsche or Hewland internals.
Early italian constructors were O.S.C.A, Stanguellini, Bandini, Taraschi, Volpini, Poggi, Autosud, de Sanctis, PLW, Raineri and Lancia-Dagrada.
The british armada included Lola, Brabham, Elva, Lotus, Terrier, Cooper, Gemini and Halson.
There were also cars from Germany, France, USA, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria and Russia.
Especially the later cars were nothing more than thinly disguised Formula 1 chassis. Especially the Lotus, Lola and Coopers were practically Formula One cars with 1100cc engines instead of 1500cc. The formula lasted until the end of 1963 and it was replaced by Formula 3 in 1964.
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#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 16:31

I don't want to sound like an idle party-pooper, but I think it's fairly evident that the chassis were smaller than F1 chassis, with lighter suspension components.
Renault gearboxes were also used, many of the Lotus 18s (if not all of them) being so equipped.
I don't think there was ever any thought of using Porsche gears, but I may be wrong. And the designation of the Ford engine was not 'Kent'... a name that came along with the first of the crossflows in 1968, if memory serves me correctly. The 105E was simply the 105E, with its three-bearing hollow-cast crank and very short stroke.
I'd like to know when the rule about standard cranks changed, for I'm fairly sure that there were special cranks in 1961...
Those front engined cars look so nice...

#16 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 03 November 2000 - 17:07

Ray, your remarks are welcome and of course valid, it is always better to get information from someone who was there at the time...

As I wasn´t around in 1961, I cannot rely on any trip down memory lane...:)

I can only pick up what is said in some publications, but where do you find something that is 100% accurate...:)

And maybe I expressed myself not clearly on the gearboxes, it sounded as the Porsches were in universal use, but not the majority. Some cars had them for sure. I have the tech spec for the American made Bourgeault in front of me, and it featured Porsche internals.

"The Autocar" says in 1961 : "At first glance, the Cooper-BMC, might be mistaken for the formula 1 car, upon which it is based, but the wheelbase is shorter, and wheels of only 13" dia. are fitted."

You are right about the 105E Anglia engine. I assumed it was the same pushrod four all along. So I thought it was tagged "Kent".

Rainer

#17 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 November 2000 - 11:37

My perception is that the Porsche box was physically larger than the VW, and therefore the internals wouldn't fit. Perhaps they used a complete Porsche box, but it would be heavier...
Maybe they told the writer that they had fitted 'Porsche-type gears'? Easy to see someone getting it wrong....