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#501 DanardiF1

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 21:28

Because to succeed by breaking so late the other driver has to back off and let him pass, if the other driver keeps the normal line Koba could be out as almost happened the first time he overtook Alguersuari. It's ok to have drivers like him but I think it was much more about a faster car and gambling than driving skills, for each race like this will have another where he will DNF.


It clearly wasn't so much of a gamble that he couldn't do it several times at the same corner... he braked later than anyone there, and also did that on a tighter line... that takes guts, talent and good foresight. So what if he's putting his faith in the other drivers seeing him coming up the inside so late... they all did, and only Alguersuari made it dicey by acting like an idiot (actually he reminded me of an AI car in a game, forcing itself back onto the pre-determined line) on the corner exit. Kamui demonstrated that there is a gulf in class between him and the other rookie drivers at this point.

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#502 DanardiF1

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 21:30

Is this the place to join the Kobayashi fan club? :clap: Awesome performance today :up: :up:


I was already a sort-of fan, now he's right up there as one of my favourites!!

#503 One

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 21:34

Hoe incredible kobayashi! Such a pitty 'cause now the race seats of teams, accept Renault, seems to be fillen in. Well One more season in sauber can do him even netter.

#504 Paul Prost

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 22:58

The most exciting driver on the grid.

As others have mentioned, even when he wasn't going for the pass he was making up to about a car length on the car in front under brakes into that hairpin. The lap before he passed Ruebens he almost smashed into his diffuser as he made up so much ground in the braking zone.

#505 slideways

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 23:34

I cannot tolerate alcohol, but many times I order five or six bottles of champagne in a restaurant.

:rotfl:


#506 showtime

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 23:47

It clearly wasn't so much of a gamble that he couldn't do it several times at the same corner... he braked later than anyone there, and also did that on a tighter line... that takes guts, talent and good foresight. So what if he's putting his faith in the other drivers seeing him coming up the inside so late... they all did, and only Alguersuari made it dicey by acting like an idiot (actually he reminded me of an AI car in a game, forcing itself back onto the pre-determined line) on the corner exit. Kamui demonstrated that there is a gulf in class between him and the other rookie drivers at this point.

And above all it takes a faster car, with fresh tyres, they did something similar in Valencia with good results. Do you remember Jaime overtaking Hulk when he had a fast car? Kamui is not the only one who has talent and guts. I like having drivers like him on the grid but as I said, his style of driving will get him as many finishes in the points as DNF. And btw I know Jaime was wrong but in the first overtaking Kobayashi almost got both of them out of the race. I'm just waiting for the time he crashes with one of the WDC contenders to see what people have to say then.

#507 rolf123

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 00:01

The guy is fantastic.

I've read his interviews on Autosport and he really speaks his mind and is the total opposite of the corporate who0res in F1, of whom Lewis appears to be chief spokesman. He is just himself, that is great to see.

And his racecraft is fantastic. Old school.

I'm beginning to wonder whether "dirty air" is an excuse. To Hamilton's credit, he has proved that you can overtake sometimes when others can't. Kobayashi also proved that today with some classic moves.

Yes, they were risky, but many classic moves were. Maybe drivers today are simply too risk averse - sign of the times?


#508 muramasa

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:40

And above all it takes a faster car, with fresh tyres, they did something similar in Valencia with good results. Do you remember Jaime overtaking Hulk when he had a fast car? Kamui is not the only one who has talent and guts. I like having drivers like him on the grid but as I said, his style of driving will get him as many finishes in the points as DNF. And btw I know Jaime was wrong but in the first overtaking Kobayashi almost got both of them out of the race. I'm just waiting for the time he crashes with one of the WDC contenders to see what people have to say then.

No one says such thing as Kamui is the ONLY one who has talent and guts. That's not the point AT ALL. Just your own interpretation.

True that many of his maneuvers this race was clumsy and risky, especially first attempt at Alg when Kamui simply overshot, and might sometimes cause DNFs, so for that reason I wouldnt actually commend his Suzuka race all out, but have you watched the rest of the season and followed Kamui closely? He's made some crucial passes, and first and foremost, his race pace is usually VERY good.

Again, he overtook twice at the same corner in the same manner before making pitstop. Also wonder how much faster Sauber is compared to FI and STR? So you cant really attribute it to fresh tyres and faster car.

You dont need to wait cynically like that to see him crashing with big names. Waste of time. Just taking a look at Vettel/JB@Spa, MW/LH@Singapore and so on will do, if you're that interested in people's reaction.



#509 cheapracer

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 03:27

I love how Webber was saying it was too hard to get close and overtake at Suzuka in the post-race press conference... he clearly hadn't seen Kamui strutting his stuff in the Sauber today!!


Webber couldn't see him, Webber was up the front where the passing actually is much difficult hence why they are up front.

Hope he is good enough long term, the first Japanese in a Ferrari would be a good thing considering how many Ferrari's are sold in Japan.


#510 Philip Lee KK

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 04:49

I love how Webber was saying it was too hard to get close and overtake at Suzuka in the post-race press conference... he clearly hadn't seen Kamui strutting his stuff in the Sauber today!!


i think Webber was talking about the top guys/cars. they were pretty much on the same strategy and unlikely to make mistakes = hard to overtake.

back on OT. Kobayashi drove a great race and it was very exciting to watch.




#511 DanardiF1

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 11:56

And above all it takes a faster car, with fresh tyres, they did something similar in Valencia with good results. Do you remember Jaime overtaking Hulk when he had a fast car? Kamui is not the only one who has talent and guts. I like having drivers like him on the grid but as I said, his style of driving will get him as many finishes in the points as DNF. And btw I know Jaime was wrong but in the first overtaking Kobayashi almost got both of them out of the race. I'm just waiting for the time he crashes with one of the WDC contenders to see what people have to say then.


The first move on Alguersuari actually reminds me of another overtaking move that's viewed as a lot more classic... Piquet on Senna in Hungary 86?? Only difference here is Jaime was on outside so came into contact when Koba slid his way in...

Both were clumsy in their initial execution, but well held with great car control...

Edited by DanardiF1, 11 October 2010 - 11:59.


#512 mkoscevic

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 12:05

Maybe drivers today are simply too risk averse - sign of the times?


Well, dunno about comparative analysis, but i think there's a slight general trend which includes more risk analysis while on track. Alonso is probably the best in that respect, or at least speaks more about it then others do.

#513 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 12:25

Kubica enjoyed watching Kobayash after retiring from 2nd:

Said the Pole: "What Kamui did with his car was super. Because I had to watch on television, he saved my day."

Edited by CaptainJackSparrow, 11 October 2010 - 12:25.


#514 Dusty

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 12:27

Mad but talented driver which equals exciting viewing. Showed sense too when Hamilton overtook him later. Brilliant; I love the guy.

#515 klyster

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 13:08

Kubica enjoyed watching Kobayash after retiring from 2nd:

Said the Pole: "What Kamui did with his car was super. Because I had to watch on television, he saved my day."


:up: Sweet ;)

#516 Collective

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 13:54

The key part was the unspectacular one though. His run in the prime tires was fantastic, kept him close, and set up the stage for his great pace and late breaking on the soft tires.

#517 gm914

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 14:16

Kubica enjoyed watching Kobayash after retiring from 2nd:

Said the Pole: "What Kamui did with his car was super. Because I had to watch on television, he saved my day."



You think Kubica wouldn't mind him over at Renault?

They'd be a great pairing.

#518 SoL

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 14:20

You think Kubica wouldn't mind him over at Renault?

They'd be a great pairing.


Could have been paired at Toyota this year. That would have been something.

#519 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 14:43

Caught the KK interview on Iplayer. Was interesting question from Brundle after seeing his move on Heidfeld "why didn't you braked that much later in qualifying?" effectively pointing out that he should have qualified better than he did and probably wouldn't have needed to do so many moves.

I much prefer watching KK this way :)

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#520 muramasa

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 15:06

Kubica enjoyed watching Kobayash after retiring from 2nd:

Said the Pole: "What Kamui did with his car was super. Because I had to watch on television, he saved my day."


At Valencia, after the race, Kubica bothered to come to Kamui to congratulate him and exchange fist bumps during Kamui being interviewed by Japanese TV reporter.

Bob is a top guy.


#521 muramasa

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 15:09

The key part was the unspectacular one though. His run in the prime tires was fantastic, kept him close, and set up the stage for his great pace and late breaking on the soft tires.

Indeed. Everyone misses Kamui's strong race pace most of races this season, which is alot more important than some spectacular but risky overtaking moves.



#522 dau

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 15:20

Caught the KK interview on Iplayer. Was interesting question from Brundle after seeing his move on Heidfeld "why didn't you braked that much later in qualifying?" effectively pointing out that he should have qualified better than he did and probably wouldn't have needed to do so many moves.

I much prefer watching KK this way :)


Well, he did brake late in qualifying. Much too late though, which most likely did cost him Q3. Would've been interesting to see him chase down Rosberg, but probably not half as exciting.

#523 Rob

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 15:48

Koby handed Heidfeld's ass stuffed with his balls to the "Heidfeld deserves a drive association" and there is no Fario to save his ass. Have a nice retirement slow Nick


This was Heidfeld's second race in an unfamiliar car. Kobayashi has been in the car all year, including the pre-season testing.

Kobayashi did a good job, but you can't judge like for like here.

#524 RoutariEnjinu

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 15:48

Maybe it's his English but I find that very funny. It sounds like Japan is a place he doesn't want to go back to at all [can't be serious]. Keep them fun comments coming, Kamui.


He means he hopes the results allow him to have a good run in F1 for a while so he doesn't have to go back home and work in his Dad's restaurant again. This was the plan after Toyota collapsed I think. If it wasn't for Sauber he'd be there now as the budget had gone.

Go buy some Scalp-D!

#525 billm99uk

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 16:27

Give us some money, please!

I'm surprised KK hasn't been turning up to his interviews with a big notice on his race suit "THIS SPACE FOR RENT"

#526 jjcale

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 16:51

Well, he did brake late in qualifying. Much too late though, which most likely did cost him Q3. Would've been interesting to see him chase down Rosberg, but probably not half as exciting.


I loved KK's response to Brundle's question: "you think?" followed by half a second's worth of a quizzical, "are you winding me up" stare that was just long enough to make Brundle realise he had got it ass-forward.... that's how you put an interviewer back in his box :lol:

#527 DanardiF1

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 17:00

I loved KK's response to Brundle's question: "you think?" followed by half a second's worth of a quizzical, "are you winding me up" stare that was just long enough to make Brundle realise he had got it ass-forward.... that's how you put an interviewer back in his box :lol:


He showed on his last qually run that he was braking as late as he could by messing up the Casio Triangle... perhaps he was just more comfortable braking into the hairpin with fuel on board than the other drivers?

#528 DanardiF1

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 17:02

Give us some money, please!

I'm surprised KK hasn't been turning up to his interviews with a big notice on his race suit "THIS SPACE FOR RENT"


I think this performance may bring some money in... he did exactly what he needed to do on his home turf and though Sauber may not need it as much as before now they've got the Mexican money, any sponsorship is good sponsorship for an independant team.

#529 juicy sushi

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 17:19

This was Heidfeld's second race in an unfamiliar car. Kobayashi has been in the car all year, including the pre-season testing.

Kobayashi did a good job, but you can't judge like for like here.

Agreed, Nick put in a good drive and brought home solid points for the team. There is no point in criticizing him for not driving like Kamui. Sauber are probably quite happy with how things turned out, and that is ultimately the criteria which matters.

Kamui's driving gave their sponsors plenty of TV-time and exposure, and Nick's solid drive netted plenty of additional points which will help the team in the championship and revenue-wise.

#530 juicy sushi

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 17:44

Give us some money, please!

I'm surprised KK hasn't been turning up to his interviews with a big notice on his race suit "THIS SPACE FOR RENT"

I have to say that article is a little worrying, but not just because of the so-far low sponsorship interest in Kamui. It seems that Sauber are being very passive about acquiring sponsorship, and that won't accomplish much of anything at all. If they want to get more Japanese sponsorship, they should probably take a much more active approach and try to engage some potentially interested firms. If they lack the expertise to do that, then they really need to find the help to do that, as passivity is not a viable approach to getting sponsors with cash in hand.

#531 ivanalesi

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 17:49

As much as I enjoyed Kamui's driving, which was absolutely the highlight of the race and for me his move on Alonso at Valencia is the best of the year, I think he didn't perform very well.
He's supposed to kick Heidfeld very hard in the nuts, he hasn't driven an F1 car for lots of time and he has no experience with these tires. Nick outqualified him, he just didn't have as good strategy calls. Kobayashi is fantastic to watch, no doubt about it, but he's got to beat his teammates. De la Rosa is 2nd rate, he got dumped by Jaguar for Pizzonia... it's normal to beat him, but he's got to beat Heidfeld in all 3 races until the end of the year.

#532 Talisman

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 19:45

Indeed. Everyone misses Kamui's strong race pace most of races this season, which is alot more important than some spectacular but risky overtaking moves.


I thought Kamui's best overtaking move was when he let Hamilton past at the first corner.

Any bonehead can overtake willy-nilly if they're willing to risk enough like Sato but by letting Lewis through safely, Kamui showed that not only can he overtake, he knows when to be discrete. He knew Lewis was in a different race and didn't waste time defending his place too aggressively nor punt him off. He did the same after the safety car in Spa when he let a much quicker Rosberg by late in the race rather than risk going off and losing all his points. This shows me that he can think as well as race and that bodes well for the future.

#533 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 20:55

perhaps he was just more comfortable braking into the hairpin with fuel on board than the other drivers?


He mustve been! but KK also took advantage of straight lining the braking zone that can be achieved at the hairpin, it's actually an advantage. It's slower in laptime but you can brake later there by not keeping right where the line is. Also it's never been a traditional overtake spot so a lot of KK's victims looked like they weren't expecting it either.

#534 billm99uk

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 21:01

He mustve been! but KK also took advantage of straight lining the braking zone that can be achieved at the hairpin, it's actually an advantage. It's slower in laptime but you can brake later there by not keeping right where the line is. Also it's never been a traditional overtake spot so a lot of KK's victims looked like they weren't expecting it either.


I'm pretty sure Jaime was expecting it the second time.

Of course, he was probably expecting the dive up the inside  ;)

#535 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 03:51

If they want to get more Japanese sponsorship, they should probably take a much more active approach and try to engage some potentially interested firms. If they lack the expertise to do that, then they really need to find the help to do that, as passivity is not a viable approach to getting sponsors with cash in hand.

Yes -> Sauber should adopt Williams style model.

In fact it is the 90s model of teams like Arrows, Jordan and indeed Williams themselves (did not work so good for first two!!!!!!!!!)... portfolio sponsorship with strong TEAM branding.


Instead of Swiss/American etc sponsors of Williams, Sauber should acquire their own blue-chip porfolio with many Japanese sponsors. :up:
The Sauber team colour could be silver or black perhaps?

#536 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 03:52

De la Rosa is 2nd rate

He's not THAT second-rate though.

Only 0.5s off the pace at worst.

Pedro did score many points in the McLaren.

#537 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:27

I thought Kamui's best overtaking move was when he let Hamilton past at the first corner.

Any bonehead can overtake willy-nilly if they're willing to risk enough like Sato but by letting Lewis through safely, Kamui showed that not only can he overtake, he knows when to be discrete. He knew Lewis was in a different race and didn't waste time defending his place too aggressively nor punt him off. He did the same after the safety car in Spa when he let a much quicker Rosberg by late in the race rather than risk going off and losing all his points. This shows me that he can think as well as race and that bodes well for the future.

Those are very good points. I agree completely. I have been following the guy since GP2 and not to toot my own horn but I just knew he was something special. Yes, some mistakes here and there. But the guy is not scared of anything. And he is getting better all the time.
I went as far as dedicating most of my review of the Suzuka race to Kamui-san: Japan Race Review - Thank You Kobayashi!

#538 pingu666

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:08

its still tough market for sponsorship i think. how much did brawn pick up last year? notverymuch :(

maybe he watches nascar and understands give and take :o

#539 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:27

I loved KK's response to Brundle's question: "you think?" followed by half a second's worth of a quizzical, "are you winding me up" stare that was just long enough to make Brundle realise he had got it ass-forward.... that's how you put an interviewer back in his box :lol:


Brundle makes me tense every time I see him on tv. It's like he's mixing being rude up with being "I'm the aggressive driver" concept.

DC and Eddie Jordan on the grid were great, DC catching Adrien Newey scoping out the Ferrari was great.

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#540 dau

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:59

I have to say that article is a little worrying, but not just because of the so-far low sponsorship interest in Kamui. It seems that Sauber are being very passive about acquiring sponsorship, and that won't accomplish much of anything at all. If they want to get more Japanese sponsorship, they should probably take a much more active approach and try to engage some potentially interested firms. If they lack the expertise to do that, then they really need to find the help to do that, as passivity is not a viable approach to getting sponsors with cash in hand.


I don't think it's that easy, there are obviously not many Japanese companies interested in F1, especially in the current economic climate. But if Kobayashi manages to raise interest for F1 in Japan, then maybe we'll see more of those smaller companies like Scalp-D on the car next year. Maybe even some larger, internationally operating ones.


Does he still have ties with Toyota? Maybe even they could place some sponsorship through one of their sub-companies. 



#541 thiscocks

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:15

As much as I enjoyed Kamui's driving, which was absolutely the highlight of the race and for me his move on Alonso at Valencia is the best of the year, I think he didn't perform very well.
He's supposed to kick Heidfeld very hard in the nuts, he hasn't driven an F1 car for lots of time and he has no experience with these tires. Nick outqualified him, he just didn't have as good strategy calls. Kobayashi is fantastic to watch, no doubt about it, but he's got to beat his teammates.


He did beat him...


#542 metz

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:59

Different strategy.
When Nick was on options he had the safety car.
When Kamui had softs he could fly.
Could have been the other way around.
Both drove well... :up: :up:

#543 beute

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 16:08

As much as I enjoyed Kamui's driving, which was absolutely the highlight of the race and for me his move on Alonso at Valencia is the best of the year, I think he didn't perform very well.
He's supposed to kick Heidfeld very hard in the nuts, he hasn't driven an F1 car for lots of time and he has no experience with these tires. Nick outqualified him, he just didn't have as good strategy calls. Kobayashi is fantastic to watch, no doubt about it, but he's got to beat his teammates. De la Rosa is 2nd rate, he got dumped by Jaguar for Pizzonia... it's normal to beat him, but he's got to beat Heidfeld in all 3 races until the end of the year.



Kobayashis pace in qualifying was excellent, it looked like he could move up to fifth but made a mistake and didnt manage to get into q3, his Pace is good, he just made a mistake.

And again, his race strategy was not good, open your eyes...
He started with hard tires on 14th place, heidfeld with softs on 9th.

He overtook alguesuary with HARD tires while jaime was using soft ones.
he then proceeded to close the gap to sutil I think, infront of sutil was heidfeld... the three were very close.
sutil and heidfeld pitted and kobayashi didnt.

after his stint was finally done he pitted for softs, and came out BEHIND alguesuary who he had overtaken before already.
That means he lost Time, he didnt gain anything by using the hards for so long.

Button had the same strategy and he also lost a place to hamilton, but thanks to hamiltons gear problem he was able to catch him.

If kobayashi would've started on the soft tires and pitted for hard like everyone else he probably would've battled michael schumacher.
instead he lost positions and time to drivers he already overtook/outpaced on hard tires and had to do it all over again.

It was his performence that enabled him finishing that high... the strategy was a handicap not a benefit...


oh and, heidfeld was great too.

Edited by beute, 12 October 2010 - 16:10.


#544 DanardiF1

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 17:03

I don't think it's that easy, there are obviously not many Japanese companies interested in F1, especially in the current economic climate. But if Kobayashi manages to raise interest for F1 in Japan, then maybe we'll see more of those smaller companies like Scalp-D on the car next year. Maybe even some larger, internationally operating ones.


Does he still have ties with Toyota? Maybe even they could place some sponsorship through one of their sub-companies. 


i thought he had sponsorship from Panasonic? but that didn't materialise... I do expect some companies to stump up after his performance this year though... if Sakon can get the money to pay for his HRT stint then surely there's some domestic sponsorship for the new Japanese superstar!?!

#545 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 17:12

If kobayashi would've started on the soft tires and pitted for hard like everyone else he probably would've battled michael schumacher.


Only if he qualified better. On full tanks he wouldn't have enjoyed the advantage the new softs gave him at the end on low fuel when everyone else was on old hards.


#546 DanardiF1

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 17:44

Only if he qualified better. On full tanks he wouldn't have enjoyed the advantage the new softs gave him at the end on low fuel when everyone else was on old hards.


they had to go different on the strategy if they wanted to score points, but it relied on Kamui doing the business, which he duly did!

#547 iotar

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 17:56

i thought he had sponsorship from Panasonic? but that didn't materialise... I do expect some companies to stump up after his performance this year though... if Sakon can get the money to pay for his HRT stint then surely there's some domestic sponsorship for the new Japanese superstar!?!

Isn't Yamamoto's family rich? (I'm not sure about it, I've heard it somewhere). Koba you know - sushi bar. And he already has a contract, so no need to buy the seat.

#548 metz

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 18:03

not rich

his dad owns a restaurant

#549 DanardiF1

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 22:23

Isn't Yamamoto's family rich? (I'm not sure about it, I've heard it somewhere). Koba you know - sushi bar. And he already has a contract, so no need to buy the seat.


No - Sakon gets his money from Sanho Human Services, a company involved in the Japanese Amusement industry.

#550 One

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:54

No - Sakon gets his money from Sanho Human Services, a company involved in the Japanese Amusement industry.

:up:


Looking back the rapid upward path of Kobayashi,,I started to wonder what's best for him.


What about a hypothetical scenario like,... Renault buying off Kobayashi from Sauber with millions?
Renault has Nissan and it makes cars with bit of touch, doesn't Kobayashi suits it's image? Besides, For Renault it will be a better choice than to have Crash-man Petrov, this move can make a clear relationship between the two Renault drivers - Kobayashi and Kubica, also Kobayashi will deliver better results for the team. Kobayashi scored 27 points in Sauber car which had trouble with and Petov just 19 in the same car in which Kubica socred mighty 114 points.

Also to take a young man in two of their car is not good for Sauber. If Kobayashi moves to Renault one seat will be vacant for someone with more experience.

Edited by One, 13 October 2010 - 09:56.