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#1551 KinoNoNo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:46

FFS Just seen the headline for a piece on Autosport+ by Jonathan Noble.

Did McLaren take wrong Sauber man?

Kamui Kobayashi's drive to the podium in the Japanese GP reminded F1 that Sauber has two drivers capable of great things. Jonathan Noble ponders McLaren's choice for 2013


One day these journo's will make up their mind :mad:

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#1552 One

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:12

Monisha is about to make a huge mistake.


She is trying toi sqweez money out of Japan, that is all.
Telecom tycoons, Electronics, house hold machineries, sports orientad newspapers, TV companies... Kamui should have a good manager who goes around for him and find a nice money for him to go on like a king. :smoking: Just another way of thinking.

#1553 smoothcrim

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:12

I wish Ferrari would give him a 1 year contract,Massa is done ffs bring in some fresh blood.





#1554 sofarapartguy

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:21

I wish Ferrari would give him a 1 year contract,Massa is done ffs bring in some fresh fish.

Fixed :up:

#1555 qczhao

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:48

does anyone have a summary of the autosport+ article they can put here?

#1556 Jimisgod

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:06

Fixed :up:


Was that a mildly intolerant sushi joke, or relating to the fact anyone going to Ferrari's second seat will likely be a 'prisoner' locked into a permanent #2 role supporting Alonso (not that Vettel has had it much different with Webber)? :rolleyes:

#1557 FenderJaguar

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:16

It only takes a podium for a writer like Noble to forget the Koba clown approach to races like Valencia and write something that has nothing to do with reality. Kobayashi is a bad choice for Sauber next season and both he and Sauber need a change. I will very happily be wrong and I am happy that he made the podium at Suzuka, but there are a lot of other interesting drivers available.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 11 October 2012 - 14:18.


#1558 qczhao

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:20

The koba clown approach? That's doing him a disservice.

Senna turned in on him. Koba was 3/4 alongside. But yes, he was a bit clumsy hitting Massa later on. Its not typical for Kobayashi to be at fault for incidents in a race though.

#1559 sofarapartguy

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:21

Was that a mildly intolerant sushi joke, or relating to the fact anyone going to Ferrari's second seat will likely be a 'prisoner' locked into a permanent #2 role supporting Alonso (not that Vettel has had it much different with Webber)? :rolleyes:

Wow, now that you've twisted it that way :rolleyes:

Just remembered KK's words about how he hates fresh raw fish.

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#1560 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:21

It only takes a podium for a writer like Noble to forget the Koba clown approach to races like Valencia and write something that has nothing to do with reality. Kobayashi is a bad choice for Sauber next season and both he and Sauber need a change. I will very happily be wrong and I am happy that he made the podium at Suzuka, but there are a lot of other interesting drivers available.

Why does being Schumacher-chopped by Senna in Valencia make Kobayashi a 'clown'?

#1561 Don_Humpador

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:27

Ignore him, he is a reknowned anti-Koba troll. :)

#1562 FenderJaguar

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:30

Ignore him, he is a reknowned anti-Koba troll. :)


no, I am talking about reality and you are making it way too easy for yourself when you can't even realize why the move in Valencia was a clown approach
and I don't go here that often and will not
have fun

#1563 Jimisgod

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:33

no, I am talking about reality and you are making it way too easy for yourself when you can't even realize why the move in Valencia was a clown approach
and I don't go here that often and will not
have fun


You will not have fun?

#1564 DanardiF1

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:43

She is trying toi sqweez money out of Japan, that is all.
Telecom tycoons, Electronics, house hold machineries, sports orientad newspapers, TV companies... Kamui should have a good manager who goes around for him and find a nice money for him to go on like a king. :smoking: Just another way of thinking.


I don't get why someone like Panasonic (who were quite happy to have their name on the Toyota) or someone similar (Canon?) doesn't get behind Kamui. He's clearly a talent and the sole one from the region at the moment.

I know Japan isn't quite the behemoth it once was, but surely they're not scrabbling around for money like Greece!?!



#1565 Sakae

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 15:37

I don't get why someone like Panasonic (who were quite happy to have their name on the Toyota) or someone similar (Canon?) doesn't get behind Kamui. He's clearly a talent and the sole one from the region at the moment.

I know Japan isn't quite the behemoth it once was, but surely they're not scrabbling around for money like Greece!?!

Japan unfortunately find itself in debt these day; big one, but marketing of products didn't die or go away, thus Kobayashi-san requires professional (and rapid) help how to get a piece of the pie. (My 2 c).

#1566 Collective

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 17:39

Japan unfortunately find itself in debt these day; big one, but marketing of products didn't die or go away, thus Kobayashi-san requires professional (and rapid) help how to get a piece of the pie. (My 2 c).

He should contact that lipstick brand that paid Button for TV ads.

#1567 Wander

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 17:42

It only takes a podium for a writer like Noble to forget the Koba clown approach to races like Valencia and write something that has nothing to do with reality. Kobayashi is a bad choice for Sauber next season and both he and Sauber need a change. I will very happily be wrong and I am happy that he made the podium at Suzuka, but there are a lot of other interesting drivers available.


That's nice of you to be wrong.

#1568 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 17:50

i think toyota can help him with 'DENSO' brand, he's after all toyota protege, funny how sato can find easily good sponsorship from honda to keep his drive in indy(which he is doing a good job BTW), but kamui can't find one. it's sad.

#1569 johnmhinds

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 17:53

It might be wise for Honda to start backing him if they are planning to start supplying engines again.

#1570 Sakae

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 18:12

It might be wise for Honda to start backing him if they are planning to start supplying engines again.

Honda logo on his sleeve right next to Ferrari engine? Do you want to give a heart attack to LdM?

#1571 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:26

Honda logo on his sleeve right next to Ferrari engine? Do you want to give a heart attack to LdM?

Well, Sauber did have BMW and Ferrari in their name in 2010 and they didn't moan too much about that. Plus it's not as if Ferrari and Honda are direct competitors.

Edited by TFLB, 11 October 2012 - 19:27.


#1572 pingu666

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:50

at a guess there may of been business to business deals with those deals

#1573 One

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:04

I don't get why someone like Panasonic (who were quite happy to have their name on the Toyota) or someone similar (Canon?) doesn't get behind Kamui. He's clearly a talent and the sole one from the region at the moment.

I know Japan isn't quite the behemoth it once was, but surely they're not scrabbling around for money like Greece!?!


Well IMHO:
1. Many well doing Japanese companies operate solely within Japanese territory and for them Kobayashi who is active in international sporting events does not bring the best exposure to Japanese Public. In Japan there are many more 'talent' that gives a company exposure: like a TV actor, singer and so on...
2. Companies like Sony, Nikon or Canon does operate widely in the other lands and for them to have a Japanese race dri ver can be a great PR machine. Only they tend to look for more international face... Like Nikon paying Brits start to appear on their TV ads... Sony is way to internationalized and so on...

Never the less, I shoulod think that it is up to manager's skill, mouth force, to convince marketability by means of Kamui. He is veryu likeable charactor and sure help more Japanese companies who wants to expand their busoiness in international level. Mitsui, for example does a lot of trades, Shipping companies and so on. Naturally Mobile operator can be tyhe best choice, but they do not sell thing outside...

#1574 johnmhinds

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:16

Honda logo on his sleeve right next to Ferrari engine? Do you want to give a heart attack to LdM?


I hate to state the obvious but there is no Ferrari branding on either the Sauber car or drivers uniforms.

#1575 Bunchies

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:24

Honda logo on his sleeve right next to Ferrari engine? Do you want to give a heart attack to LdM?


Whatever, put every single sponsor in F1 on his race suit if they have to.

This guy is the most exciting driver in F1. I'd rather have 24 of him in the sport than anyone else on grid, WDCs included. He is simply the most entertaining guy out there and has the performance to match.

#1576 Jimisgod

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:32

http://edition.cnn.c...html?hpt=hp_mid

Kobayashi ended up on the front page of CNN International, which is more than most drivers can claim.

"I wanted to become a comedian -- Amagasaki is quite popular for Japanese comedians. But I found I wasn't talented enough," Kobayashi told the sport's official website last month.

He he. :clap:

Edited by Jimisgod, 12 October 2012 - 04:33.


#1577 tarmac

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:54

With the car they have Sauber should be right now fighting for P4 money. The points just arent there for Kobayashi when Sauber can get 20 million guaranteed from someone that is very similar level anyway

Edited by tarmac, 12 October 2012 - 04:55.


#1578 Jimisgod

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:56

With the car they have Sauber should be right now fighting for P4 money. The points just arent there for Kobayashi when Sauber can get 20 million guaranteed from someone that is very similar level anyway


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

What?! Sauber on the level of Lotus or Ferrari?

#1579 Sakae

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:51

I hate to state the obvious but there is no Ferrari branding on either the Sauber car or drivers uniforms.

Sauber is powered at the moment by Ferrari engine. I am not sure which engine (Nissan-Renault?) they will have next year, but should Kamui stand on the podium again with Honda logo in camera lenses, it would have to make an engine maker "really happy", to state the obvious.

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#1580 One

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 13:11

:up:

http://edition.cnn.c...html?hpt=hp_mid

Kobayashi ended up on the front page of CNN International, which is more than most drivers can claim.

"I wanted to become a comedian -- Amagasaki is quite popular for Japanese comedians. But I found I wasn't talented enough," Kobayashi told the sport's official website last month.

He he. :clap:

:up: :up:

#1581 midgrid

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 15:35

Staying optimistic about Kobayashi's future, when a driver says these sorts of things in the press, it can often mean "I just need a little bit more financial support, to anyone who's reading this", rather than "Oh no, I'm about to lose my seat and there's nothing I can do".

Reading that Sauber would prefer to employ GutiƩrrez as a third driver, and a potential increase in Japanese involvement through Honda's mooted re-entry, has also made me confident that he will retain the seat next year, alongside either Hulkenberg or Alguersuari.

#1582 dau

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 15:54

As soon Honda returns, so will do Toyota

Toyota have their hands full in WEC and i doubt they'd be willing to run a parallel F1 program. Even if it's just as an engine supplier.

#1583 muramasa

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 15:58


I just noticed tiny logos of NTT DoCoMo, Japan's biggest mobile career, on Maclaren car, on its driver head protection, at Suzuka GP. Seems they sponsored them for Japan GP only. For a while I thought, "why not Sauber? well maybe they couldnt coz they have other mobile career in Claro/Telmex already.", but silly me, McLaren has massive Vodafone logos.

Japanese company knows how to fail. Marketing is one huge weakness for Japanese companies in general. Their awful and miserable marketing strategy always pisses me off. This is just another one..

#1584 marcoferrari

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 16:06

It's very telling when there's pretty much 100% universal agreement that a driver shouldn't be dropped by his team for the following season.

Stay with us Kamui, you're a fan favourite for all the right reasons. :up:


Interesting how a one good result can change people's minds... In Singapore, Koba was completely lost fighting with Caterham... In Monza, he just just cracked the top 10, while, Perez was running few seconds behind the winner... You are as good as your last race... :)

#1585 sofarapartguy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 16:14

Interesting how a one good result can change people's minds... In Singapore, Koba was completely lost fighting with Caterham... In Monza, he just just cracked the top 10, while, Perez was running few seconds behind the winner... You are as good as your last race... :)

Well they say so for a reason, don't they? :drunk:

#1586 Sakae

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 17:16

Something is terribly wrong in Japan when I see on the streets of Tokyo wall-plastered oversized Hamilton's images (by HB?), and none of Kamui, yet I have my doubts that too many of pedestrians would know who Hamilton is, even if you threaten them.

#1587 KinoNoNo

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 18:05

Kamui and Sauber have been trying to get Japanese money since '10 and they're just not interested.

I hate to say it but music is about to stop and it's Kamui left standing in the middle :cry:


#1588 muramasa

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 18:53


before Suzuka GP last week, Kamui visited NEC Tokyo HQ. I thought NEC sponsorship was made by NEC Mexico, but seems NEC Tokyo is involved as well? Maybe they can move up to where Chelsea logo is sitting atm :p The company is in struggle tho.

btw couple months ago I bought NEC's home wireless LAN, because it is good one AND because NEC is on Sauber. Maybe I'll buy new PC by NEC with new windows 8 too. Hello NEC PR/Marketing department people, are you there? Also any other companies?

I loathed how Japanese companies threw shitload of money into F1 without any idea and strategy in the 90s and to some degree 00s. It wasnt very smart. Now they have an ideal driver to support finally, and unfortunately driver bringing money into team is becoming important in F1 once again, then they are nowhere. wth.

#1589 g1n

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:05

before Suzuka GP last week, Kamui visited NEC Tokyo HQ. I thought NEC sponsorship was made by NEC Mexico, but seems NEC Tokyo is involved as well? Maybe they can move up to where Chelsea logo is sitting atm :p The company is in struggle tho.

btw couple months ago I bought NEC's home wireless LAN, because it is good one AND because NEC is on Sauber. Maybe I'll buy new PC by NEC with new windows 8 too. Hello NEC PR/Marketing department people, are you there? Also any other companies?


My first mobile phone was an NEC one like in the pic but silver...ah the memories, I feel bad about not keeping it :(
Posted Image

anyway back on topic, does not look good for Koba, recent rumours suggest Sauber are likely to go for Gutierez and Hulkenberg who both bring in money.

#1590 onewingedangel

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:13

I just noticed tiny logos of NTT DoCoMo, Japan's biggest mobile career, on Maclaren car, on its driver head protection, at Suzuka GP. Seems they sponsored them for Japan GP only. For a while I thought, "why not Sauber? well maybe they couldnt coz they have other mobile career in Claro/Telmex already.", but silly me, McLaren has massive Vodafone logos.

Japanese company knows how to fail. Marketing is one huge weakness for Japanese companies in general. Their awful and miserable marketing strategy always pisses me off. This is just another one..


The head protection logos on the McLaren vary race to race - I believe they are often Vodafone business customers who win a competition, but in this case NTT DoCoMo and Vodafone have joint interests/strategic partnership.

Cable&Wireless worldwide (another Vodafone company/partner) were on the car just for Singapore.

It's all part of the Vodafone package and not the individual companies contributing themselves.

#1591 Sakae

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:16

When I am hearing that Sauber and Kamui negotiated, or tried to negotiate a deal, it has earmarks of dead on arrival just on the face of it. Anyone knowing anything about those things would know, that Sauber as a sport or business entity means absolutley nothing to Japanese, especially if they conducted meeting in English...

Kamui needs to hook up with somebody who represents other famous figures in Japan, like a baseball agent, for example; a guy who can enter company's premises without appointment at any day, at any hour, without knocking on the door. That's the right one to negotiate a deal for Kamui. I am not an expert, but I would have thought that Kalterborn would know how to deal with Japanese, if she really cares, unless she takes it that it's not her job to support drivers. Perhaps she does, and for now it was not working, so she dropped the ball and looking elsewhere for a new driver? Well, it's her pale and sandbox now.

Edited by Sakae, 12 October 2012 - 19:19.


#1592 Talisman

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:46

When I am hearing that Sauber and Kamui negotiated, or tried to negotiate a deal, it has earmarks of dead on arrival just on the face of it. Anyone knowing anything about those things would know, that Sauber as a sport or business entity means absolutley nothing to Japanese, especially if they conducted meeting in English...

Kamui needs to hook up with somebody who represents other famous figures in Japan, like a baseball agent, for example; a guy who can enter company's premises without appointment at any day, at any hour, without knocking on the door. That's the right one to negotiate a deal for Kamui. I am not an expert, but I would have thought that Kalterborn would know how to deal with Japanese, if she really cares, unless she takes it that it's not her job to support drivers. Perhaps she does, and for now it was not working, so she dropped the ball and looking elsewhere for a new driver? Well, it's her pale and sandbox now.


Forget Japan. As Muramasa said Japanese companies are awful at marketing and anyway if he hasn't sorted anything out by now the decision making process will be so long that the money won't be in place in time to save him.

Kamui's manager is better off looking around Western companies for sponsorship but I think time is running out.

If Sauber are demanding money then Kamui needs to look elsewhere. Going to Williams and convincing them that he not Bottas is their best bet is probably his best chance.

#1593 race addicted

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:51

Forget Japan. As Muramasa said Japanese companies are awful at marketing and anyway if he hasn't sorted anything out by now the decision making process will be so long that the money won't be in place in time to save him.

Kamui's manager is better off looking around Western companies for sponsorship but I think time is running out.

If Sauber are demanding money then Kamui needs to look elsewhere. Going to Williams and convincing them that he not Bottas is their best bet is probably his best chance.


I'm sure that would be just as much "dead on arrival" as his negotiations with Sauber is/was.


#1594 Don_Humpador

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:55

It seems like Williams would be the only other logical choice but it does indeed sound like they're going with Bottas next year.

I don't want to see Kamui scrounging around in a Marussia or HRT, so if he does leave F1, I hope he goes to the WEC with Toyota or somehting

#1595 race addicted

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 20:06

It would be a huge shame if he wasn't in F1 and racing next year!

#1596 KinoNoNo

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 20:11

It seems like Williams would be the only other logical choice but it does indeed sound like they're going with Bottas next year.

I don't want to see Kamui scrounging around in a Marussia or HRT, so if he does leave F1, I hope he goes to the WEC with Toyota or somehting


Don't think you'll have to worry about that happening.

If all but the top teams are demanding money from their drivers, I can't see the tail-end Charlies having the budget either.




#1597 Talisman

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 20:22

Don't think you'll have to worry about that happening.

If all but the top teams are demanding money from their drivers, I can't see the tail-end Charlies having the budget either.


Joe Saward had a very interesting article about this.

Most teams will have one dependable driver they pay and one paydriver they'd take a risk on. Thats why Glock, Kovalainen and De La Rosa are still driving, and thats why Sauber kept Kobayashi for so long.

Now it looks like Sauber needs two paydrivers and is willing to take Hulkenberg who is pretty quick, reliable and comes with a budget as well as Gutierrez who represents the real risk as a traditional paydriver.

The thing is the tailenders are happy with who they have so they have no incentive to dump their current drivers and take Kamui. Thats a shame because Caterham is somewhere he could go and restore his reputation just as Kovalainen did.

#1598 mich

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 21:39

before Suzuka GP last week, Kamui visited NEC Tokyo HQ. I thought NEC sponsorship was made by NEC Mexico, but seems NEC Tokyo is involved as well? Maybe they can move up to where Chelsea logo is sitting atm :p The company is in struggle tho.

btw couple months ago I bought NEC's home wireless LAN, because it is good one AND because NEC is on Sauber. Maybe I'll buy new PC by NEC with new windows 8 too. Hello NEC PR/Marketing department people, are you there? Also any other companies?


Is sponsored money by NEC Tokyo? I think "No" because of this news: http://www.ibtimes.c...ay-10000-401094
Also, Panasonic 40,000, Sony and Sharp 10,000 people cut off.

#1599 Collective

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 00:41

It's NEC Mexico. But NEC HQ is the obvious place to start looking for Japanese money. Hopefully his management met with someone with power there.

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#1600 Sakae

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:18

Forget Japan. As Muramasa said Japanese companies are awful at marketing and anyway if he hasn't sorted anything out by now the decision making process will be so long that the money won't be in place in time to save him.

Kamui's manager is better off looking around Western companies for sponsorship but I think time is running out.

If Sauber are demanding money then Kamui needs to look elsewhere. Going to Williams and convincing them that he not Bottas is their best bet is probably his best chance.

I have to agree, that time is running out. Based on most recent articles, Kobayashi seems to be surprised by discovery that he needs to transform into a pay-driver, all of which leads me to believe, that he could use a different agent, if he has one to begin with. Sponsorship sought in the past was probably to improve his own financial situation, totally unrelated to pay-seat (my guess), but lack of long term strategy and risk mitigation for situation he is in is glaring.