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Kobayashi Thread


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#151 Velocifer

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:26

Really impressive driving by Kobayashi. Compare that to others who never tried the car or track.

And to play with the championship contender in their main battle race and not take them out just takes balls and skill.

A breath of fresh air. :up:

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#152 Scaramanga

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:39

My son asked how the Hot Dog eating champion of Coney Island could get to F1!


First thing I thought of when I heard the name, was Mr. Kobayashi, Keyser Söze's right-hand man, in The Usual Suspects.

Anyways, impressive drive by Kobayashi in the last race, more impressive being how much trouble other new drivers have been having even changing cars in F1. So at the very least he seems to be a quick-learner and knows how to keep his cool.

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#153 santori

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:43

Especially since his GP2 career in Europe has been anything but dignified.


His season was disappointing, of course, but it's not as if he shamed himself. The whole team seemed to lose it's way. Jérôme d'Ambrosio had a better season but things have kept swinging back and forth between them for their two seasons as team-mates (I hope he gets his chance, too).

Anyway, a pretty impressive debut.

EDIT p.s. Don't he and Nico Hulkenberg sometimes look sort of like the same person in disguise?

Edited by santori, 19 October 2009 - 22:49.


#154 Juan Kerr

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 23:31

normally not a big fan of Japanese drivers, but Kobayashi impressed me a lot yesterday. Unfortunate not to get a point really.

Just the usual kid trying his damnest to impress. What he actually did was cause many risky situations which you invariably don't get away with more often than you do, Montoya style. It looks good to idiots and there is more of them so good luck to it but 'goog' it is not and 'praise' he does not deserve.
All he proved to me on Sunday was he isn't clever enough to get into F1.

#155 maccaFTW

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 23:46

NPjr has won GP2 and failed in F1...


He didn't win GP2. He finished second to Hamilton in his second year in the series.

It's one thing if Kobayashi just never dominated or challenged for the championship in GP2. The truth is he has been REALLY far off the mark. He's finished 16th in the championship two straight years, both years in which he was beaten by his teammate D'Ambrosio. (Who himself hasn't been very impressive at all there.)

#156 f1seb

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 00:52

Ok, I'm trying to realize the sensibility of this message forum as some very few have as well in this post.

Kobayashi debut in Brazil 2009 renders him 9th place.

Vettel in 2007 in the USA GP managed to get 8th and actually score a point.
Kubica in 2006 Hungary got 7th place in his debut. Granted he was dq'ed for his rookie mistake of not picking up enough garbage around the track and his car was underweight. But we at least got a taste of what he can do by getting 3rd place in Italy 2 races later.

Neither of these 2 drivers got a thread like this guy here, or the type of praise, while both of them achieved much more impressive results in their respective debut races.

So what you're telling me here is that this BB values more a guy who weaves around the track putting himself and other drivers in risky situations while destroying his tires. Sure it looks fun to watch on the tele but what does it give you in the end? Nothing except a few fond memories. Even if this guy does end up getting a drive in 2010 and makes it to the grid. Rest assured that during the driver meetings he will be put in his place. If he decides to defy the other drivers, again rest assured that, the more experienced ones will put him in his place and school him on the track.

His debut was fun, but far short of "impressive."

Edited by f1seb, 20 October 2009 - 00:53.


#157 Scaramanga

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 03:13

Neither of these 2 drivers got a thread like this guy here, or the type of praise, while both of them achieved much more impressive results in their respective debut races.


That's because there wasn't much expectation placed on Kobayashi, and this season rookie drivers coming in mid-season have not had the advantage to get assimilated into F1 due to a ban on testing. New drivers have had to improvise, step up to a lot of pressure, and essentially jump into the highest echelon of motorsports with little to no practice in the F1 car they are going to race with. Even seasoned drivers are finicky when changing between cars that don't suit their style and incur a huge gap in performance, now imagine the task of a rookie stepping into a F1 car mid-season with little to no practice, and little to no experience in an F1 car.

Every driver coming in mid-season has been either a disappointment or have plain embarrassed themselves. Moreover, instead just not embarrassing himself, he was actually relevant in the race; when he had Button behind him. It was a spectacle and hugely entertaining, lots of aggressive passing and blocking, and re-passing. So he's made an impression. That's it, we'll see how he does in the next race, and we'll discuss again.

Also, I remember a high-amount of praise for both Vettel and Kubica on their debut. In particular Vettel. Lots.

Edited by Scaramanga, 20 October 2009 - 03:17.


#158 Phucaigh

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 10:28

John Howett on Kobayashi when asked about him driving for them next year: "You have to say we have to give him serious consideration but still pace-wise he was a bit slow so we have to see”

#159 ezequiel

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 21:25

NPjr has won GP2 and failed in F1...



Exactly: doing good or bad in GP2 doesn't indicate a thing. There are plenty of factors to analyse. Perhaps Piquet car in GP2 was outstanding and he was able to perform better that other drivers in presumible worse cars.

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#160 Dolph

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 21:31

Sorry to ruin your circle jerk but here are Kobayashis GP2 series results:

2008: 16th

2009: 16th

#161 BullHead

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 21:32

We have new SATO :D


I hope so... Would like to see Sato back too next year.

#162 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 21:40

Kubica in 2006 Hungary got 7th place in his debut. Granted he was dq'ed for his rookie mistake of not picking up enough garbage around the track and his car was underweight. But we at least got a taste of what he can do by getting 3rd place in Italy 2 races later.

1) that was a crazy race, button won it FFS
2) do you remember how much kubica was testing the car at that time? friday tester, anybody?

#163 dau

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 22:33

Ok, I'm trying to realize the sensibility of this message forum as some very few have as well in this post.

Kobayashi debut in Brazil 2009 renders him 9th place.

Vettel in 2007 in the USA GP managed to get 8th and actually score a point.
Kubica in 2006 Hungary got 7th place in his debut. Granted he was dq'ed for his rookie mistake of not picking up enough garbage around the track and his car was underweight. But we at least got a taste of what he can do by getting 3rd place in Italy 2 races later.

Neither of these 2 drivers got a thread like this guy here, or the type of praise, while both of them achieved much more impressive results in their respective debut races.


There was at least one Kubica praise thread several months before his first race. I'm pretty sure you would find similar threads regarding Vettels debut.

Sure, there were more impressive debuts in the past. But still - after the 09 GP2 season, i thought Kobayashis career would be dead for good. Then he gets thrown into the Brazilian GP with 1 weeks notice, a track he's never driven on before. He doesn't get much practice tracktime in the dry, manages a pretty decent qualifying - he would have made Q3 without that mistake in his final lap - and goes on to drive a really nice first stint, fighting with Button and still being faster than Nakajima, Grosjean, Heidfeld, Alguersuari or Fisichella. Granted, his speed faded later on, what he did with Nakajima did deserve a penalty and the blocking certainly wasn't nice (even though i didn't even notice until Button mentioned it) but seriously - that was his first F1 race. And we're not talking about someone like Grosjean or Buemi (or NPjr) who did pretty well in GP2 and below, but Kobayashi, who was utter crap in the last two GP2 seasons. (bar GP2Asia of course)

#164 JarnoA

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 22:50

There was at least one Kubica praise thread several months before his first race. I'm pretty sure you would find similar threads regarding Vettels debut.

Sure, there were more impressive debuts in the past. But still - after the 09 GP2 season, i thought Kobayashis career would be dead for good. Then he gets thrown into the Brazilian GP with 1 weeks notice, a track he's never driven on before. He doesn't get much practice tracktime in the dry, manages a pretty decent qualifying - he would have made Q3 without that mistake in his final lap - and goes on to drive a really nice first stint, fighting with Button and still being faster than Nakajima, Grosjean, Heidfeld, Alguersuari or Fisichella. Granted, his speed faded later on, what he did with Nakajima did deserve a penalty and the blocking certainly wasn't nice (even though i didn't even notice until Button mentioned it) but seriously - that was his first F1 race. And we're not talking about someone like Grosjean or Buemi (or NPjr) who did pretty well in GP2 and below, but Kobayashi, who was utter crap in the last two GP2 seasons. (bar GP2Asia of course)


In 06, things were a lot different to now. Test drivers reguarly outpaced the race drivers because they didn't have the engine restrictions. SFAIR, test drivers topped the times in pretty much every friday practice. In the first race in Bahrain, Anthony Davidson was first in FP2 in the Honda. This led to a lot of people saying "wow, how good is this guy", when really they just had an unrestricted engine, so much faster car.

The Toyota is considerably faster than the Renault. Jarno had a chance of a win with the pace and strategy in Brazil if it weren't for the Kamikaze Sutil. Kobayashi weaved all over the track making it impossible to pass. This is not a good drive. If I were driving a Skoda and you were driving a Porsche, I could keep you behind by weaving about. That doesn't make me a good driver.



#165 CWeil

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 07:07

Kamikaze Sutil? Did you even watch the first lap? That anybody can defend Jarno on that is amazing.

#166 +X-K

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 09:08

First thing I thought of when I heard the name, was Mr. Kobayashi, Keyser Söze's right-hand man, in The Usual Suspects.

Anyways, impressive drive by Kobayashi in the last race, more impressive being how much trouble other new drivers have been having even changing cars in F1. So at the very least he seems to be a quick-learner and knows how to keep his cool.

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name of KOBAYASHI is the ninth most common in Japan.
in this connection SATO is the most,SUZUKI the second.

in contrast KAMUI is not so at all,that is very unique. :lol:


#167 egg1980

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 09:19

I only have three words to say about Kobayashi - the next Sato!

F1 needs characters like this, the Japanese will wet themselves with excitement at seeing him race a Toyota in Japan!
John Howett doesn't seem so convinced as the rest of us, particularly with his race pace.
On the one hand this is good that the team is finally thinking about performance ahead of marketing, on the other hand if a manufacturer team isn't selling cars on behalf of it's owner then it's not going to survive (just look at Honda).

Kamui and Kimi would be a dream come true for Toyota... and part of me hopes that they will surprise everyone and pull it off!


On a slightly different note, I noticed that even the Brazilian GP had a lot of empty seats. If the current trend of low admissions continues, I wonder if common sense will prevail and F1's strongest markets will be given some extra attention (like Spain was).

An Asian GP anybody? Effectively amounting to a second Japanese GP.

#168 Zdeus

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:08

Ok, I'm trying to realize the sensibility of this message forum as some very few have as well in this post.

Kobayashi debut in Brazil 2009 renders him 9th place.

Vettel in 2007 in the USA GP managed to get 8th and actually score a point.
Kubica in 2006 Hungary got 7th place in his debut. Granted he was dq'ed for his rookie mistake of not picking up enough garbage around the track and his car was underweight. But we at least got a taste of what he can do by getting 3rd place in Italy 2 races later.

Neither of these 2 drivers got a thread like this guy here, or the type of praise, while both of them achieved much more impressive results in their respective debut races.

So what you're telling me here is that this BB values more a guy who weaves around the track putting himself and other drivers in risky situations while destroying his tires. Sure it looks fun to watch on the tele but what does it give you in the end? Nothing except a few fond memories. Even if this guy does end up getting a drive in 2010 and makes it to the grid. Rest assured that during the driver meetings he will be put in his place. If he decides to defy the other drivers, again rest assured that, the more experienced ones will put him in his place and school him on the track.

His debut was fun, but far short of "impressive."


You have to understand that Vettel and Kubica were test drivers for BMW and were around the F1 paddock for sometime, so though their debut was very impressive it was not a stunning surprise. Koba was totally unknown, no one knew him - so on that background, its only natural for him to get recognized.

Its totally naive to compare the debuts you mentioned to Koba's debut, because those were absolutely totally different conditions.

Edited by Ravindra Nagpurkar, 21 October 2009 - 11:09.


#169 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 13:14

In 06, things were a lot different to now. Test drivers reguarly outpaced the race drivers because they didn't have the engine restrictions. SFAIR, test drivers topped the times in pretty much every friday practice. In the first race in Bahrain, Anthony Davidson was first in FP2 in the Honda. This led to a lot of people saying "wow, how good is this guy", when really they just had an unrestricted engine, so much faster car.

you fail to notice that in 2006 test drivers were actually testing the cars
now they sit at home and never touch the car.kubica had a lot of bmw experience, friday testing etc.

#170 madwolfa

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 18:31

Yes, he ended up on 10th place, but it was more because of unlucky strategy. He well deserved a better position.

Great guy, it was fun to watch his driving! :up:

#171 JarnoA

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 19:33

you fail to notice that in 2006 test drivers were actually testing the cars
now they sit at home and never touch the car.kubica had a lot of bmw experience, friday testing etc.


You fail to notice that that was the point of the post. Kubica didn't really shine in the way some posters think.

Back on the topic of Kobayashi, he was driving a very fast car and weaving around like a nutter. That isn't a great debut, that is a kamikaze pilot in a fast car.

#172 Hole

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 19:47

We have new SATO :D


If look at stats, Sato wasn't such a kamikaze. I think all of this was blew out of proportion because in 1 race he took Schumacher off the track.

Anyway, Kobayashi is more like a new Montoya. I hope he gets a seat next year. A Japanese with two big cojones, it's going to be interesting.

#173 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 19:53

Sorry to ruin your circle jerk but here are Kobayashis GP2 series results:


Yeah, seriously, Sato looked great for one race too.

Way to premature to judge this guy.


#174 billm99uk

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 20:04

Sorry to ruin your circle jerk but here are Kobayashis GP2 series results:

2008: 16th

2009: 16th


Yes, but in between them he won the GP2 Asia Series. Started off with some impressive drives and then cruised in Button-style while Hulkenberg got the rave reviews.

Go figure :confused:


#175 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 22:10

You fail to notice that that was the point of the post. Kubica didn't really shine in the way some posters think.

Back on the topic of Kobayashi, he was driving a very fast car and weaving around like a nutter. That isn't a great debut, that is a kamikaze pilot in a fast car.

well in the other so fast car a certain trulli could just manage around 5 turns in the lap before crashing out spinning like a rookie on the grass. koba took it wheel to wheel a lot..ok, maybe on the dangerous side sometimes but he had 0 GPs (vs more than 200),made a pass around the outside of turn 1, kept his cool with jenson around and even managed to re-pass him once, made a move on fisichella with kers and made it stick (if you judge by experience, fisichella drove the ferrari a lot more than koba has even touched the toyota).


is it too early to tell? of course. this just means we should see more of him. he showed great car control in wheel to wheel battle, great race craft...ok, a little too agressive, but that can be fixed.

i still can't forgive fisico for instance for losing a position to heikki in japan exiting the pits...that was a rookie mistake.....and koba so far proved he is willing to race...

you want his track position? great, fight for it...:)

#176 JarnoA

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 22:51

well in the other so fast car a certain trulli could just manage around 5 turns in the lap before crashing out spinning like a rookie on the grass. koba took it wheel to wheel a lot..ok, maybe on the dangerous side sometimes but he had 0 GPs (vs more than 200),made a pass around the outside of turn 1, kept his cool with jenson around and even managed to re-pass him once, made a move on fisichella with kers and made it stick (if you judge by experience, fisichella drove the ferrari a lot more than koba has even touched the toyota).


is it too early to tell? of course. this just means we should see more of him. he showed great car control in wheel to wheel battle, great race craft...ok, a little too agressive, but that can be fixed.

i still can't forgive fisico for instance for losing a position to heikki in japan exiting the pits...that was a rookie mistake.....and koba so far proved he is willing to race...

you want his track position? great, fight for it...:)


The other guy had a strategy and position to win the race. Fellow kamikaze, Sutil, stopped that.

This is why the likes of Sutil and Kobayashi shouldn't be in F1. If you put a shit driver in a really fast car, problems happen. In Brazil, FI and Toyota were among the fastest cars. Both had kamikaze drivers who shouldn't be in F1. In the old days, shit drivers drove shit cars, so never really caused a problem. When you put a shit driver in a good car, he causes problems.



#177 maccaFTW

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 22:56

The other guy had a strategy and position to win the race. Fellow kamikaze, Sutil, stopped that.

This is why the likes of Sutil and Kobayashi shouldn't be in F1. If you put a shit driver in a really fast car, problems happen. In Brazil, FI and Toyota were among the fastest cars. Both had kamikaze drivers who shouldn't be in F1. In the old days, shit drivers drove shit cars, so never really caused a problem. When you put a shit driver in a good car, he causes problems.


Trulli also had a wet setup.

I doubt Trulli would have held off Hamilton and Vettel on pace. But he was ahead of Kobayashi in pace.

Kobayashi wasn't that far off Trulli's pace the whole weekend, though. I was more impressed by that than by his torpedoing people in the braking zones.

#178 maccaFTW

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 23:02

Sorry to ruin your circle jerk but here are Kobayashis GP2 series results:

2008: 16th

2009: 16th


Exactly.

It wasn't that Kobayashi didn't impress in GP2. It's that he was so far off the mark that any suggestion of him getting to F1 was laughable. He was beaten by his teammate both years in GP2, as well.

And it's not like Kobayashi Fever was with a poor team. Alexander Rossi, the 18-year old American, set some impressive times with DAMS in the latest round of GP2 testing. In fact, at one point, he was quickest in wet weather conditions in one session. Kobayashi set quick times there, but when he got in arguably the quickest car.

#179 CWeil

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 23:13

Sorry to ruin your circle jerk but here are Kobayashis GP2 series results:

2008: 16th

2009: 16th


And 2008/2009 GP2 Asia champion.

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#180 PNSD

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 23:23

Gp2 results?
Who cares?

He proved to be alright at Brazil.

Certainly a better showing that what Grosjean or Jamie have shown! It's taken Buemi almost the whole season to get upto speed too!



#181 maccaFTW

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 23:32

And 2008/2009 GP2 Asia champion.


Not exactly the greatest accomplishment.

The GP2 Asia runners last year when Kobayashi won it were HACKS. Hulkenberg only ran in a third of the races and finished 6th overall in the GP2 Asia championship. If he had just run 2/3 of the races, he would have won the championship.

So yeah, if a field is full of hacks, Kobayashi has a great chance to be champion.

#182 maccaFTW

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 23:37

Gp2 results?
Who cares?

He proved to be alright at Brazil.

Certainly a better showing that what Grosjean or Jamie have shown! It's taken Buemi almost the whole season to get upto speed too!


Grosjean is a ragged hack.

Jamie has potential but needed a lot more experience in lower formulas.

Buemi did NOT take the whole season to get up to speed. He scored in two of his first three races, and he made Q3 in China. He got off to a brilliant start. His problem is that Red Bull cut STR's funding massively this year now that their golden boy is with the A team, and he's tried pushing the car too hard since the initial Newey-designed gift from Red Bull didn't receive upgrades for a long time while other teams have. He's been very good in the wet this year, as well.

#183 harsha

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 00:23

Some people always try to belittle accomplishments. Give credit where credit is due ffs.

The guy drove a great race. Kudos to him. Lets see if he can keep the heat. His earlier accomplishments mean shit if he can impress people in F1.

#184 maccaFTW

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 00:47

Some people always try to belittle accomplishments. Give credit where credit is due ffs.

The guy drove a great race. Kudos to him. Lets see if he can keep the heat. His earlier accomplishments mean shit if he can impress people in F1.


Not disputing that he didn't have a good weekend. He wasn't far off Trulli's pace, and in fact had more consistent race pace in Friday practice.

But there is lots of reason to question whether or not this is a one-off, given his overall GP2 record.

#185 kaivo

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:09

Nice race with Kimi and kamui .

#186 Simon Says

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:12

Kobayashi vs Kimi *grabs some popcorn*

#187 BRK

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:29

Hope the camera does pan to the midfield every now and then,instead of riding piggy back on the McLaren and RBR.

#188 potmotr

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:34

Shades of Alesi v Senna, Phoenix 1990 there!

#189 grunge

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:35

koba crushes button :eek:

#190 kaivo

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:35

Gj Koba

#191 Francesc

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:35

Wow Kobayashi :up: :up: :clap: Nice move

#192 tonic

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:45

Wow Kobayashi :up: :up: :clap: Nice move



Koba has arrived in F1, the real deal japanese driver in a while.

#193 Nobody

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:46

go basher! :lol:

the kid is gold!

#194 GimmieKimi

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:46

He is a dirty driver though

#195 kaivo

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:47

And what he did again ?
PAsses button ? thats dirty ?

#196 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:49

Wow again at Kobayashi, just brilliant first two races. One of best debut drivers in years. Passing WDC, holding third and staying infront of another WDC Raikkonen. Amazing driver!

#197 GimmieKimi

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:49

And what he did again ?
PAsses button ? thats dirty ?



The way he defends and attacks , you expect an accident. :down:

#198 MegaManson

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:49

God I love this guy hope he stays in F1 next season :clap:



#199 tonic

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:50

The way he defends and attacks , you expect an accident. :down:



Thats how MS or Webber drive to name a few.

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#200 Francesc

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 13:50

Go Kamui!! He's really consistent :)