79 replies to this topic

[Andrew Kitson]

We have 2 RP21 Royale F.Fords competing in Australia in historic racing , were there only 3 RP21 s built ?

Bryan Miller , C.A.M.S. [ Confederation of Australian Motorsports ] Eligibility Chairman.

There were 66 RP21s built. According to Royale's records,

Bob Toleman bought chassis no. RP21/33
Alex Hawkridge bought RP21/32 & RP21/43 ( one of these was probably used by Ted, as no records of
another car allocated to him. )

[BT 35-8]

Thanks Andrew,

One of the cars here is RP21-14 .

[Andrew Kitson]

One of the cars here is RP21-14 .

That car was originally sold to Colin Hopper.
All ref from the Royale book 'Nowhere to Hide'.

[RTH]

So what we need to know is does Royale Formula Ford RP 21 / 33 still exist and where is it now ?
Is there a historic FF register currently covering these cars and have they got a list of Chassis numbers ?

Anyone got any contacts here http://www.historicf.../main.index.htm

Or here http://www.classicformulaford.com/

Or here http://www.formula-f...com/aboutus.htm

Edited by RTH, 25 November 2009 - 10:11.

[Victoria Toleman]

We have 2 RP21 Royale F.Fords competing in Australia in historic racing , were there only 3 RP21 s built ?

Bryan Miller , C.A.M.S. [ Confederation of Australian Motorsports ] Eligibility Chairman.

You have RP21, racing, is it RP21 / 33. Robert Toleman's car ?

[Victoria Toleman]

That car was originally sold to Colin Hopper.
All ref from the Royale book 'Nowhere to Hide'.

Hi,

Do we know who sold it ?
When it was sold ?
What it was sold for ?

Thanks for all your help

[Little Leaf]

I notice the book is now available through Amazon.co.uk

http://www.amazon.co...t...9963&sr=8-1

Gonna have to wait until Christmas for this one myself.

[Auroraf1]

I received my copy of said book yesterday.

Even just flicking through it seems a very worthwhile purchase!

[Victoria Toleman]

I received my copy of said book yesterday.

Even just flicking through it seems a very worthwhile purchase!

Anyone know how i can get in contact with Rad Dougal.

[Keke Rosberg]

Can anyone tell me if there's an indepth account from Teo Fabi about his 1985 drive with the Toleman team in this book?

thank you kindly

[Geza Sury]

I received my copy of said book yesterday.

Even just flicking through it seems a very worthwhile purchase!

I'm already halfway through the book and I have to say I enjoy it very much. It must be one of Chris Hilton's best books. It is well researched and is full of interesting and funny stories. I recommend it to all motorsport fans without any hesitation.

[Auroraf1]

I'm already halfway through the book and I have to say I enjoy it very much. It must be one of Chris Hilton's best books. It is well researched and is full of interesting and funny stories. I recommend it to all motorsport fans without any hesitation.

Agreed, Iam two thirds through and it's a good read. Good pictures too, apart from on a few the blues look green, I don't know if this is a printing problem or from the originals. Still it doesn't detract.

[tricky1963]

Agreed, Iam two thirds through and it's a good read. Good pictures too, apart from on a few the blues look green, I don't know if this is a printing problem or from the originals. Still it doesn't detract.

Sorry, but this book is a massive disappointment. The pre-F1 years are well covered but the 4 seasons in F1 are given very shallow coverage. This lack of depth extends to the photos which are often misplaced and out of sequence, and the book lacks details of the TG183 and TG184 car developments. eg why did the 184 have both single and dual wing configuations, why did Senna's wing fly off at Hockenheim. This isn't just trivia, it is meat and drink to a PROPER story and is completely missing.

There is no chassis log or proper race history either - even Autocourse can provide that !

It just strikes me as lazily written as it wouldn't have taken much more to make it a full documentation of Toleman. As it is, it is more like a collection of reminiscences, often misplaced and presenting a hazy picture of history.

I have waited years for a book like this but it isn't even a patch on the Kimberleys team guide of 1983. Gutted.

[ensign14]

There is no chassis log or proper race history either - even Autocourse can provide that !

So there's no need for it there then.

There are a number of books that seem to pad themselves out with information available easily enough elsewhere...I'd rather get the stories and historical overview. I'd also ratherread about the pre-F1 days because, again, the F1 days are covered quite well.

[tricky1963]

So there's no need for it there then.;)

There are a number of books that seem to pad themselves out with information available easily enough elsewhere...I'd rather get the stories and historical overview.

Of course there is a need - not everyone has every issue of Autocourse for a start !

If a book is advertised as a team history there are certain basic things that should be included; like getting the pictures correct would be a good start. The book seems to me to be lazily written - it could have been superb but it's just "okay" because it misses out so much detail and is really short on technical insight.

I don't want a book full of "feelings" - it needs some insight too !

[ensign14]

Of course there is a need - not everyone has every issue of Autocourse for a start !

No, but a couple of clicks on wikipedia gives you the whole Toleman race history in F1. I suppose history books like that one should concentrate on the lower formulae results. Although I've not read the book yet.

Then again, much rather that way around than something like the Veloce Minardi book, which was a gigantic missed opportunity.

[Richard Jenkins]

Then again, much rather that way around than something like the Veloce Minardi book, which was a gigantic missed opportunity.

Oh yes, I agree with that. It looked good from the blurb but reality was very disappointing, so much NOT there, which you would expect. Might've bought it for £2, but not for £20

[RTH]

The book came as a surprise Christmas present. I have not started reading it yet but first impressions are very good. It is hardback 10"x10"x1"thick quite heavy at 1.3kgs good quality art paper and thankfully a generous size font making it an easy read. Vast number of photographs, good attractive layout 8 page results appendix 7 page index tells the story in strictly chronological format , altogether impressive , I am looking forward to getting in to it .

Of course it is not worth the cover price of £35 nor even the Internet price of £23 , no books like this are good value at these inflated charges. With all the advances in compilation, publishing and printing technologies and the ability to sent a whole book down the line to a remote low cost economy for physical printing, you would have thought in real terms over the last 25 years books should have got less expensive and not exceeded general inflation as they have by a big margin.

[ensign14]

The physical printing and binding, sure; but that's always been the case, apparently hardbacks cost the same to produce as paperbacks. But the research and writing costs will not deteriorate over time...

[tyrrellp346wheels]

Got the book as a christmas present and i thought it was a really good read, even though the formula one seasons, especially the 1985 season where very rushed through, but the images in the book are superb especially the 1981 f1 images.

[RTH]

The physical printing and binding, sure; but that's always been the case, apparently hardbacks cost the same to produce as paperbacks. But the research and writing costs will not deteriorate over time...

No doubt Doug and others could tell us what percentage of the cover price the author gets, I bet it is low single figures.

[retriever]

As a publisher myself I should respond to some of the comments detailed here as to book production, pricing and costings but honestly given the fixed viewpoint shown by some contributors e.g. hardbacks cost no more than softbacks, I feel it would be a waste of time. Suffice to say our Roundoak books are not printed using the facilities of 'some low cost economy' but are printed here in the UK in West Yorkshire and bound in Scotland.


Given the appalling news from China of the execution of that poor soul this morning one hopes this event might just trigger some rethinking in the minds of those who have exported their manufacturing requirements to that country.





www.nynehead-books.co.uk

[Tim Murray]

As a publisher myself I should respond to some of the comments detailed here as to book production, pricing and costings but honestly given the fixed viewpoint shown by some contributors e.g. hardbacks cost no more than softbacks, I feel it would be a waste of time.

That's a shame. It would have been very interesting to get the facts from someone who knows what he's talking about.

[ensign14]

Especially as one "fixed" viewpoint is prefixed "apparently", such opinion having been based (I am reliably informed) on a Guardian article a couple of years ago, something more recent in a debate on why ebooks cost more than hard copies and wikipedia.

[Victoria Toleman]

Oh yes, I agree with that. It looked good from the blurb but reality was very disappointing, so much NOT there, which you would expect. Might've bought it for £2, but not for £20

I have still not read the book. I have spoken to several people that have. I am very disappointed, the book should have been a tribute to Toleman, with the ture facts, what it has ended up is a travesty of the truth, and a big ego trip for Ted Toleman. Christopher Hilton has allowed Ted Toleman to write his side of the story and not the truth. Expected more from Christopher Hilton.

[Michael Ferner]

As a publisher myself I should respond to some of the comments detailed here as to book production, pricing and costings but honestly given the fixed viewpoint shown by some contributors e.g. hardbacks cost no more than softbacks, I feel it would be a waste of time. Suffice to say our Roundoak books are not printed using the facilities of 'some low cost economy' but are printed here in the UK in West Yorkshire and bound in Scotland.


Given the appalling news from China of the execution of that poor soul this morning one hopes this event might just trigger some rethinking in the minds of those who have exported their manufacturing requirements to that country.





www.nynehead-books.co.uk

Hear, hear!

[Allen Brown]

Oh yes, I agree with that. It looked good from the blurb but reality was very disappointing, so much NOT there, which you would expect. Might've bought it for £2, but not for £20

I have still not read the book. I have spoken to several people that have. I am very disappointed, the book should have been a tribute to Toleman, with the ture facts, what it has ended up is a travesty of the truth, and a big ego trip for Ted Toleman. Christopher Hilton has allowed Ted Toleman to write his side of the story and not the truth. Expected more from Christopher Hilton.

Victoria, I believe Richard's quote referred to the Minardi book, not the Toleman book.

Edited by Allen Brown, 05 January 2010 - 12:49.

[Victoria Toleman]

I have still not read the book. I have spoken to several people that have. I am very disappointed, the book should have been a tribute to Toleman, with the ture facts, what it has ended up is a travesty of the truth, and a big ego trip for Ted Toleman. Christopher Hilton has allowed Ted Toleman to write his side of the story and not the truth. Expected more from Christopher Hilton.
Victoria, I believe Richard's quote referred to the Minardi book, not the Toleman book.

Thanks. Anyway, i have had my say !!!! About the Toleman Book

[Victoria Toleman]

Thanks. Anyway, i have had my say !!!! About the Toleman Book

Hi you Guys, back in town - thanks for all your info xxx

[Victoria Toleman]

Hi you Guys, back in town - thanks for all your info xxx

Posting on the Ted Toleman forum !!