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Is Kovalainen the most dissapointing talent in F1 history?


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#1 Bluesmoke

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:42

Here's a guy around 2005 had everything going for him. He was testing at ridiculous speeds for Renault. He beat Schumacher for Race of Champions and was going to be the next big thing in F1. He had more star power than Hamilton and of any rookie coming into F1 since Villeneuve in 96.
What is God's name happened to this guy. He has the spine of a roll of toilet paper. He's consistently slow, makes stupid mistakes and seems to act as if it's no big deal. You'd think that with Kimi possibly replacing him at Mclaren, he'd grow some balls and at least give Lewis a push, but looks like he's more likely to drive himself out of F1. He's the only person I can think of who is getting worse and worse every year - in a good car.

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#2 Bishy

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:44

Close but I think Bourdais would fight him for that title, especially given his multiple WDC status before F1! :eek:

#3 Regiotap

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:45

No. Just because Kovalainen always driving a bad strategy, and his car is worser than Hamilton.



#4 F1Johnny

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:47

Jan Magnussen

#5 craftverk

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:48

No. Just because Kovalainen always driving a bad strategy, and his car is worser than Hamilton.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Kovalainen is a quick driver, I rate him as one of the quickest to be honest, it's just his race performances and lack of results, he has the raw speed but not the pace.

Edited by craftverk, 19 October 2009 - 17:48.


#6 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:48

not in the least for me, at least. i never considered him a talent. he was mediocre all his life imho. it was briatore who hyped him up at the time.

#7 mursuka80

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:49

There should be some standards for threads here. Taki Inoue :D

#8 MegaManson

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:50

He was shit at Renault and was shit at McLaren but I would love him to write a tell it as it is book on his time in McLaren

#9 Dirty Ol Stard

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:54

Jan Magnussen

:up:

#10 Jackmancer

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:56

Jan Magnussen


I had the same name in my mind before opening this topic :up:

Alessandro Zannardi would qualify for this as well, but to a lesser extend to Magnussen.

#11 scheivlak

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:57

He was shit at Renault

He did reasonably well in the second part of that season. Excellent race at Fuji.


#12 fastdriver

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:57

Poor guy. :lol:

Ok, I am not ready to write him off just yet. A few months ago I was ready to write off Fisi, then SPA 2009 happened and I thought, hmm, maybe still something there. I think there's still something in HK. Right now it's very very very deep, but I think it's there.

#13 P123

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:59

He was shit at Renault and was shit at McLaren but I would love him to write a tell it as it is book on his time in McLaren


It might not be much, but he did beat Fisico at Renault. If he stays perhaps he will have a car better suited to his driving style next season.

#14 primer

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 17:59

No.

Agreed. While Heikki has been substandard in F1, some drivers have been even worse. Just recently, Nelson Piquet.

and his car is worser than Hamilton.

There's no evidence and Heikki has never made any noises about this. Admit it, Heikki hasn't lived upto expectations and he has himself to blame. He is just too slow to be even a decent number two driver.

#15 Mandzipop

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:01

He's not even above Massa in the standings. And considering Massa has only had half a season in I should say a comparative car, it doesn't say a lot for Heikki.

#16 Dirty Ol Stard

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:01

i actually like Heikki, and i think in a smaller, but well funded team he would do wonders, and i really hope he will get a chance to prove my assessment.
I consider Bourdais to be the biggest failure in F1, must have been because all those years spent in Champ and getting more acustomed to the US style of racing than the European one. And also, i think the high expectations got to him mentally, and the car was a dog. That only shows you how good of a driver Vettel really is.

#17 mursuka80

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:01

There's no evidence and Heikki has never made any noises about this. Admit it, Heikki hasn't lived upto expectations and he has himself to blame. He is just too slow to be even a decent number two driver.


Actually he has complained about it many times,but it doesnt matter he isnt in Hamilton level anyway.

#18 primer

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:02

It might not be much, but he did beat Fisico at Renault.

Quicker than Fisi? Like stealing candy from a kid.

If he stays perhaps he will have a car better suited to his driving style next season.

That definitely worked for Kimi at Ferrari! :p

#19 William Hunt

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:03

Jan Magnussen for sure was dissapointing considering that in terms of car control he was on of the most talented for sure but the results didn't follow. Maybe because of his attitude and behaviour? (He once showed up still drunk from the night before on the race track for a test session with Stewart). I still feel that he had the talent to be a potential world champion, what a waste.

Someone else that comes in mind: Johnny Dumfries: looked very strong in F3 & F2, maybe he didn't get a fair chance at Lotus next to Senna, he dissapointed.

Edited by William Hunt, 19 October 2009 - 18:10.


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#20 SeanValen

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:06

Some drivers always look great for certain periods in their career, but on the whole, consistency season after season is what counts.


Maybe Hekki is lacking in certain areas we don't understand but other f1 drivers might.

Speed and gifted talent is not enough, applying it better and being flexiable for changable situations in races and seasons with different cars is what makes the ulitmate f1 driver, Schumacher M projected that better then anyone and set a example. Hekki just seems lost, like he knows he has speed, but is lost within perhaps the new technical rules and cars, yence the ongoing challenge to adapt and move with f1 is not his speciality.

Hakkinen
and Kimi both fast, and thought it would of been a hatrick of Finn speed if Hekki was a main guy as well, but not all finns make it this time.

Edited by SeanValen, 19 October 2009 - 18:10.


#21 Nathan

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:06

Jan Magnussen

In my F1 lifetime this would be the other option. Definatley one or the other. I'm not so sure regarding Bourdais, it seems he did get a bit shafted.

Has Heikki outscored any points since Massa was replaced?

#22 primer

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:06

Actually he has complained about it many times


Looks to be a giant international media conspiracy!! They are all censoring his multiple complaints about how he is given a slower car compared to Lewis.

The only time he has had a car different to Lewis is due to manufacturing not keeping up with R&D, and Mclaren-Mercedes (like Renault) have always acknowledged the few times it has happened. Excuses, excuses....

#23 P123

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:07

Actually he has complained about it many times,but it doesnt matter he isnt in Hamilton level anyway.


He complained about his strategies. But in Turkey and Brazil this season alone he was lighter than his teammate and finished behind, so his problems are bigger than that. Nobody will have fuel strategies to hide behind next season.

With McLaren giving him a hurry up I'd be amazed if he would stay silent if he felt the team was screwing him.

Edited by P123, 19 October 2009 - 18:09.


#24 Anssi

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:10

No.

#25 zarooch

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:13

well for me i'd say its too early to say that kova is the biggest disappointment... I mean we need to see how he performs in some other situation, in some other team, with something different, I mean at least I'd like to see him maybe do one season at renault or some other decent team with a car capable of winning GPs. Ok hami is faster, but I don't know i'm still not convinced that heikki is altogether a waste. I wud like to see him trying something different, bring in some change.

#26 mursuka80

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:13

Looks to be a giant international media conspiracy!! They are all censoring his multiple complaints about how he is given a slower car compared to Lewis.

The only time he has had a car different to Lewis is due to manufacturing not keeping up with R&D, and Mclaren-Mercedes (like Renault) have always acknowledged the few times it has happened. Excuses, excuses....


Its not what he has said to Finnish TV,but we are liars,so what does it matter :rolleyes: And i said it wouldnt matter anyway.He would still be looking at Hamilton`s rear light.

Edited by mursuka80, 19 October 2009 - 18:15.


#27 BlackCat

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:15

i do not see any reason to rate, say, Rosberg higher than Kovalainen. to say nothing about eternal losers like Heidfield.

#28 Number62

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:18

Michael Andretti

I really wanted another Andretti to be good in F1. Loved watching Mario in the Lotuses, especially against Ronnie Peterson.

#29 BMW_F1

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:19

never considered him that good to begin with.

#30 shonguiz

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:19

I never ever considered him to be a gem and was always pissed that peoples thought so, did they seriously thought so because of the race of chalo trophy ?! Anyway i can't say that i am dissapointed with him, only pissed that he had such good teams to work with while others were much more deserving.

#31 noikeee

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:23

I think his main problem is not being able to handle pressure.

Clearly something's up with the driving styles as well - as good as Hamilton is, his talent by itself can't justify a 1.5 seconds difference over Kova, like we've seen in some races. Particularly when in qualy the pair seems very close!

I'm afraid these last 2 seasons have wrecked his confidence and it might take long to recover from this. A move to a smaller team would do good for him but even there he might need more time to shine.

Edited by paranoik0, 19 October 2009 - 18:25.


#32 Anssi

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:26

Heikki said the car is designed for a certain driving style and it's the style Lewis uses. It is about what kind of lines Lewis takes through the corners. Heikki would like to use a smooth line, unlike Lewis, who likes to use more sharper turns.

Heikki has had trouble because he should drive like Lewis drives through the turns to get the most out of the car. He should change the style he has used to drive before. How fair is that? Was Lewis asked to change his driving style to suit the one preferred by Heikki? No. It is an unfair comparison when you have this situation.

I don't think you can make a fair assessment of his skills and talent until you put him in a situation in which he doesn't have to constantly bend over and try to do things like his team-mate does them.

I think all things considered, Heikki was really unlucky that he was out of the Renault after 2007. He may have been happy to end up at McLaren, but I don't think many people thought McLaren is going to respect their "equality" talks much after December 2007 when they hired him and advertised how they will give him equal status in the team. I see that clearly didn't happen and I think they were cheating Heikki a little bit there with their comments on equality.

#33 mclarensmps

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:37

Driving style is a BS excuse.

Everyone knows that I am no Alonso fan, but look at how quickly he adapted from Renault to McLaren. Two completely different types of cars, and Fred was on the pace IMMEDIATELY, on the Macca. A good driver will be able to drive any car to be honest. This example is significant because Alonso has a visibly different driving style than others.

#34 Dirty Ol Stard

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:50

Driving style is a BS excuse.

Everyone knows that I am no Alonso fan, but look at how quickly he adapted from Renault to McLaren. Two completely different types of cars, and Fred was on the pace IMMEDIATELY, on the Macca. A good driver will be able to drive any car to be honest. This example is significant because Alonso has a visibly different driving style than others.


no it would not, but a brilliant driver will

#35 F3000man

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:53

Comparing to names like Magnussen, no.

But it's utterly dismal to see such a talent being forgotten in the second McLaren. He is not a bad driver indeed. But he looks to be very weak psychologically realizing that he got few decent results so far whereas there are plenty of drivers chasing a place in Woking. Sum it to lack of performance in races and bad luck. May be better to see him leading a medium team and being worth again.

#36 fastdriver

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:55

Heikki said the car is designed for a certain driving style and it's the style Lewis uses. It is about what kind of lines Lewis takes through the corners. Heikki would like to use a smooth line, unlike Lewis, who likes to use more sharper turns.

Heikki has had trouble because he should drive like Lewis drives through the turns to get the most out of the car. He should change the style he has used to drive before. How fair is that? Was Lewis asked to change his driving style to suit the one preferred by Heikki? No. It is an unfair comparison when you have this situation.


I don't think you can make a fair assessment of his skills and talent until you put him in a situation in which he doesn't have to constantly bend over and try to do things like his team-mate does them.

I think all things considered, Heikki was really unlucky that he was out of the Renault after 2007. He may have been happy to end up at McLaren, but I don't think many people thought McLaren is going to respect their "equality" talks much after December 2007 when they hired him and advertised how they will give him equal status in the team. I see that clearly didn't happen and I think they were cheating Heikki a little bit there with their comments on equality.

Unfortunately in these forums, saying a car is built to suit 1 driver at the expense of another is frowned upon and not accepted as an acceptable justification of the driver's performance(or lack thereof :) ) if you don't believe me, go check out the Massa v Kimi theads. :rolleyes:


#37 craftverk

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 18:58

Heikki said the car is designed for a certain driving style and it's the style Lewis uses. It is about what kind of lines Lewis takes through the corners. Heikki would like to use a smooth line, unlike Lewis, who likes to use more sharper turns.

Heikki has had trouble because he should drive like Lewis drives through the turns to get the most out of the car. He should change the style he has used to drive before. How fair is that? Was Lewis asked to change his driving style to suit the one preferred by Heikki? No. It is an unfair comparison when you have this situation.

I don't think you can make a fair assessment of his skills and talent until you put him in a situation in which he doesn't have to constantly bend over and try to do things like his team-mate does them.

I think all things considered, Heikki was really unlucky that he was out of the Renault after 2007. He may have been happy to end up at McLaren, but I don't think many people thought McLaren is going to respect their "equality" talks much after December 2007 when they hired him and advertised how they will give him equal status in the team. I see that clearly didn't happen and I think they were cheating Heikki a little bit there with their comments on equality.

http://www.itv-f1.co...e.aspx?id=47028

#38 fastdriver

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:00

Driving style is a BS excuse.

Everyone knows that I am no Alonso fan, but look at how quickly he adapted from Renault to McLaren. Two completely different types of cars, and Fred was on the pace IMMEDIATELY, on the Macca. A good driver will be able to drive any car to be honest. This example is significant because Alonso has a visibly different driving style than others.

..and the last 2 seasons?
oops, i'm not trying to turn this into an Alonso debate.


#39 milestone 11

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:01

Here's a guy around 2005 had everything going for him. He was testing at ridiculous speeds for Renault. He beat Schumacher for Race of Champions and was going to be the next big thing in F1. He had more star power than Hamilton and of any rookie coming into F1 since Villeneuve in 96.
What is God's name happened to this guy. He has the spine of a roll of toilet paper. He's consistently slow, makes stupid mistakes and seems to act as if it's no big deal. You'd think that with Kimi possibly replacing him at Mclaren, he'd grow some balls and at least give Lewis a push, but looks like he's more likely to drive himself out of F1. He's the only person I can think of who is getting worse and worse every year - in a good car.

You obviously weren't around to watch the embarrassment that was Michael Andretti.


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#40 ehagar

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:02

Nah... Yannick Dalmas, Jan Lammers or maybe Bernd Schneider.

Kovaleinen has had some success and a win. There are plenty of amazing talents that never even get that chance.

Heiki has been 'Heidfelded'

#41 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:03

Unfortunately in these forums, saying a car is built to suit 1 driver at the expense of another is frowned upon and not accepted as an acceptable justification of the driver's performance(or lack thereof :) ) if you don't believe me, go check out the Massa v Kimi theads. :rolleyes:


well not necessarily frowned upon, i may believe that kovalainen feels that the car suits hamilton's style. but i also think that a talented driver can adapt. kovalainen cannot, it seems.


#42 saunarobot

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:04

I wonder if his performance dropped after the Barcelona crash?

He has still managed to outqualify Lewis 5 times this season despite having an older spec car a few times and usually more gasoline, still usually in races he's dropped back completely. I wish someone who knew would tell why this happens, but the team of course will not say anything interesting. Another team and another car might work for him.

#43 milestone 11

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:04

Michael Andretti

I really wanted another Andretti to be good in F1. Loved watching Mario in the Lotuses, especially against Ronnie Peterson.

Sorry 62, I posted before reading the thread.


#44 THE "driverider"

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:05

No, I would say Nelsinho Piquet because he was a British Formula Three Champions and a Runner-Up in GP2 to Lewis Hamilton of all people and was just awful in a Formula One car. Also Romian Grosjean has been dissapointing this year maybe as bad as Piquet. Heikki just hasn't got that extra grunt that Lewis or Jenson has to be a team leader, a winner and a champion. He is a great number two driver, but I hope that he goes to a team like Toyota and maybe partner Kamui Kobayashi which could give him a bit more confidence and maybe that grunt too.

#45 William Hunt

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:06

Kova was great in Valencia qualifying (without his mistake in the final corner he would have taken pole there) but overall his racing speed just wasn't there when you compare him to Lewis. He did still manage to score a decent amount of points though. But calling him the most dissapointing talent in F1 history is ridiculous of course.

#46 Dirty Ol Stard

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:06

Nah... Yannick Dalmas, Jan Lammers or maybe Bernd Schneider.

Kovaleinen has had some success and a win. There are plenty of amazing talents that never even get that chance.

Heiki has been 'Heidfelded'


:up: :up: :lol: :up: :up:

#47 Clatter

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:06

Driving style is a BS excuse.

Everyone knows that I am no Alonso fan, but look at how quickly he adapted from Renault to McLaren. Two completely different types of cars, and Fred was on the pace IMMEDIATELY, on the Macca. A good driver will be able to drive any car to be honest. This example is significant because Alonso has a visibly different driving style than others.


That year LH also said he had to change his style to suit the car, something I'm sure applies to FA as well.

#48 Panch

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:08

I hope Heikki goes to Renault with Kubica, in McLaren he was always just the second driver.

#49 fastdriver

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:10

Nah... Yannick Dalmas, Jan Lammers or maybe Bernd Schneider.

Kovaleinen has had some success and a win. There are plenty of amazing talents that never even get that chance.

Heiki has been 'Heidfelded'

too funny!
:rotfl:


#50 Kristian

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:13

To be honest I thought Heikki was very overrated by many before he started, but he's still disappointed me.

However, he was at Renault in his rookie season and showed flashes of talent, before being totally dominated by Lewis at McLaren, which is clearly a Hamilton-centric team.

I think Heikki would improve greatly if he was to move to one of the new teams, where he could be confident and under no pressure.