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Is Kovalainen the most dissapointing talent in F1 history?


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#51 fastdriver

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:13

a tad off topic,
is there a thread with 'Funniest Posts'?

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#52 RoutariEnjinu

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:14

Kovalainen always driving a bad strategy


Then he is either a push over, and therefore not going to do well in F1. He certainly isn't angry at the team.
Or he's bad at strategy, and therefore not going to do well in F1.

I find it amazing that people that haven't even met the guy, or anyone at McLaren think they have it all weighed up, and that Kovalainen is a great racer. Yet we can see shots of him laughing and joking with the team principal on the pit wall, completely relaxed.

Trying to be objective, I'd say Heikki is a great bloke, a FAST DRIVER, but not a great racer (in the F1 formula under it's current technical regulations).

Edited by RoutariEnjinu, 19 October 2009 - 19:14.


#53 Dirty Ol Stard

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:16

a tad off topic,
is there a thread with 'Funniest Posts'?


http://forums.autosp...howtopic=105559

#54 fastdriver

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:22

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=105559

Good one! :clap:

#55 shonguiz

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:24

The car is build for hami excuse is pure BS, and it's not me saying it but the big heads at Macca who say that his style is very similar to lewis anyway.

#56 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:36

He did still manage to score a decent amount of points though. But calling him the most dissapointing talent in F1 history is ridiculous of course.


I think Fisichella still takes the award for most bizarre long career in F1, capped off by going slower than Luca Badoer.

Anyone who says that the best talent is in F1 has to explain the endless contract renewals of guys like Kova and Fisi.

#57 mursuka80

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:39

The car is build for hami excuse is pure BS, and it's not me saying it but the big heads at Macca who say that his style is very similar to lewis anyway.


Heikki says his driving style is total opposite.Do you have link to this BS?

#58 fastdriver

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:39

I think Fisichella still takes the award for most bizarre long career in F1, capped off by going slower than Luca Badoer.

Anyone who says that the best talent is in F1 has to explain the endless contract renewals of guys like Kova and Fisi.

I'm not saying I agree, but this is funny!

#59 britishtrident

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:41

The car and team didn't suit him --- unlike Piquet and Seabass it ain't over for him yet.

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#60 shonguiz

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:48

Heikki says his driving style is total opposite.Do you have link to this BS?

It's in the MP4 24 thread.

#61 mursuka80

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:50

It's in the MP4 24 thread.


The link or some posters opinion? Sorry i dont plan to skim through hundreds of pages for a link,so could you give it to me?

#62 stevewf1

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:53

Well, at least he's won a race. How many have Magnussen/Zanardi/Andretti/Piquet Jr/Heidfeld won?. I'd like to see him in another team before I judge...


#63 Darth Sidious

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 19:55

The car is build for hami excuse is pure BS, and it's not me saying it but the big heads at Macca who say that his style is very similar to lewis anyway.


This is what I've always been led to believe. I'm sure there was an article last year that said the development team of the Mp4-23 didn't factor in Lewis' driving style into their improvements and that they just took wind tunnel data and the best solutions according to the data went on the car. It wasn't to make it more US or OS, all they were looking for was something that would make the car quicker and the drivers would then have to adapt to driving the car as quickly as the engineers said it could go.

As an example, I believe that at one stage they made the car more understeery before Hockenheim, and then Kovalainen had to run that race with a gurney flap on his front wing for extra downforce as he couldn't get the fronts to grip to his satisfaction. Hamilton had been in the sim to help adapt to this before Hockenheim, and Kovy was scheduled to go in the sim after Hockenheim.

I could be wrong here as I'm going from memory and I don't know if I heard this little snippet on telly, or read it in a magazine, or whatever.

#64 Anssi

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 20:31

The car is build for hami excuse is pure BS, and it's not me saying it but the big heads at Macca who say that his style is very similar to lewis anyway.



You need to talk to Heikki about that one - he didn't sound like he would agree with you.

The message was very clear - they expect Heikki to change his driving style to that of Lewis. He said he has tried to change it but it's hard.

Why not switch it around - configure and set up the car for Heikki as the priority and ask Lewis to change his driving style to that of Heikki, and then see how they will do.

Edited by Anssi, 19 October 2009 - 20:35.


#65 MegaManson

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 20:37

Magnussen was a good driver who was ruined by booze and fags, Andretti was a good driver ruined by a shit attitude (refusing to relocate outside of USA and running up shitloads of airmiles on Concorde) Heikki just hasn't got it

#66 craftverk

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:00

You need to talk to Heikki about that one - he didn't sound like he would agree with you.

The message was very clear - they expect Heikki to change his driving style to that of Lewis. He said he has tried to change it but it's hard.

Why not switch it around - configure and set up the car for Heikki as the priority and ask Lewis to change his driving style to that of Heikki, and then see how they will do.

You're not listening. The car is not built for Lewis, last year Hamilton specifically stated that he liked how the 2007 car handled over the 2008 car, and that he's had to change his style, same for this year's car, Hamilton's just adapting to it better than Kov is.

#67 ensign14

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:04

Magnussen is the obvious choice. Stefano Modena as well, touted as an Italian world champion, couldn't even finish his debut race because he was tired.

But how about Dave Walker? Magnussen-like dominance in Formula 3, something ludicrous like 22 wins in 30 races. Gets to F1, gets into a world championship winning car for a season, and doesn't score a single point.

#68 WebBerK

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:10

Alonso.
Could have won 3 WDC in the last three years, but kept doing stupit things.

#69 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:12

Excuses for Kovalainen are all but dried up. Kovalainen was in clean air, running directly behind Hamilton, he was carrying 13 laps less fuel which equates to roughly 30kgs and was still getting dropped in race pace. What more excuses can be made up? No matter what the strategy and he cant deliver. You put him on a optimum strategy one stopper and he puts in a performances like Monza. You put him on a 2 stopper and he still gets left by Hamilton. If Hamilton was not stuck behind Rubens for so long, he could possibly have got 2nd. Kovalainen on the other hand got nowhere. :cry: In Brazil, Hamilton made his 1 stopper work whilst starting from 17th. Ask Kovalainen to do the same and you get, starts from 4th in Monza and finishes 6th. It would have been 7th if not for Hamilton crashing. He just aint good enough. But I must admit Taki Inoue or Ukyo Katayama take the biscuit. On those ground when compared to them two muppets, Kovalainen does indeed have some talent. :lol:

#70 shonguiz

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:13

The link or some posters opinion? Sorry i dont plan to skim through hundreds of pages for a link,so could you give it to me?


Nope it was an interview with one big shot from macca that said it, i believe it was conducted by autosport and it was posted in that thread.

You need to talk to Heikki about that one - he didn't sound like he would agree with you.

The message was very clear - they expect Heikki to change his driving style to that of Lewis. He said he has tried to change it but it's hard.

Why not switch it around - configure and set up the car for Heikki as the priority and ask Lewis to change his driving style to that of Heikki, and then see how they will do.

I said that they said (mclaren heads) their driving styles were similar and the car wasn't fundamentaly made to suit one more than the other.

#71 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:16

You're not listening. The car is not built for Lewis, last year Hamilton specifically stated that he liked how the 2007 car handled over the 2008 car, and that he's had to change his style, same for this year's car, Hamilton's just adapting to it better than Kov is.


And you're not listening to Heikki. That's his problem really, only Finnish media tells about his opinions and situations, the world media is not interested.

Oh well, I hope he goes to another team so all this uninformed bashing will stop.



#72 Pegaso

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:16

He is just suffering from the nº2 driver at McLaren syndrome. I wonder what kind of stories (one of the best liars in the bussiness) Ronzo told him about equality when he signed his contract. :lol:

#73 dabrasco

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:23

hmm I think kov might have to leave mclaren first to be sure, if it was the car that was just too bad for him this season/Lewis is just more special...or he was indeed really poor.

I wonder if and just if...Kimi signs at Mclaren and Lewis manages to consistently handle him, history might be less harsh on Kov

though im sure pple on this board will say Mclaren pouring sand in Kimis engine is the reason.

Kov has shown some nice one lap pace from time to time... n his drive in Spa was quite decent given the circumstances, but indeed he hasnt impressed much

#74 craftverk

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:24

And you're not listening to Heikki. That's his problem really, only Finnish media tells about his opinions and situations, the world media is not interested.

Oh well, I hope he goes to another team so all this uninformed bashing will stop.

So you think I'm lying? :yawnface:

#75 Bloggsworth

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:32

There have been far worse drivers in F1, he has at least won a GP (Not a 100% indicator - Chris Amon)

He may qualify as one of the less successful "Manager's Pick" drivers, but is nowhere near as bad as, say, David Walker. who, seemingly very talented, just couldn't pedal a Lotus 72 anywhere near fast enough.

Remember, you are comparing him with Hamilton, who in his first season matched a double World Champion........................

Edited by Bloggsworth, 19 October 2009 - 21:33.


#76 glorius&victorius

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:36

Antonio Pizzonia was also a great talent, always fast in testing... but then in GP weekends it never materialized... (except that one race in Spa that he was on course for a podium finish).... but such is life... I am surprised how long Kovy occupied the Mclaren seat... another year and I would seriously loose respect for Mclaren

#77 Alfisti

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:38

It's criminal thathe has a race win to his name but Heidfeld doesn't. HK ha sbeen abysmal, poorest performance on the grid bar the ring ins this year. i don't why that us the case be he looks absolutely lost.

#78 pippin

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 21:47

He's not the most disappointing, no way, but I do think he was overrated when he came to F1.

#79 jokuvaan

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:07

What is God's name happened to this guy.


1)BS tyres (a huge factor)
2)forced non-natural driving style in Mclaren
3)number 2. position inside the team

Of course he has had a loads of bad luck too during past two years.

I hope he leaves Mclaren.

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#80 PNSD

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:14

He's got raw pace. that much is clear. He's a match for Lewis on one lap but his downfall is one of Lewis's qualities. Race pace.

Lewis goes to another level on race day whereas Heikki seems to drop another level.

two years in a Mclaren and he's done nothing with it.

#81 saudoso

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:16

1)BS tyres (a huge factor)
2)forced non-natural driving style in Mclaren
3)number 2. position inside the team

Of course he has had a loads of bad luck too during past two years.

I hope he leaves Mclaren.


You guys don't have BS rubber in Finland? Every Fin driver suffers from not knowing how to use this tyre brand.


#82 ryan86

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:17

Ricardo Zonta was another one. F3000 and Sportscar champion, and then it all went wrong. I think JV did for him if the stories are about what happened at BAR are true.

#83 billm99uk

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:31

Magnussen is the obvious choice. Stefano Modena as well, touted as an Italian world champion, couldn't even finish his debut race because he was tired.

But how about Dave Walker? Magnussen-like dominance in Formula 3, something ludicrous like 22 wins in 30 races. Gets to F1, gets into a world championship winning car for a season, and doesn't score a single point.


Yeah, I'd go for Magnussen too. You've got to be seen as "the next big thing" in the first place to get this one and the likes of Piquet Jnr. were not generally seen as that.


#84 onemoresolo

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:39

I'm not sure what it is with the Renault development programme. The last three drivers they've brought into F1 have looked very good in the lower formulae, and then like a fish out of water in F1 (although Heikki has been the best of a bad bunch). Piquet and Grosjean's F1 performances make them look like completely different people compared to their performances in lower formulae. Heikki just doesn't seem to have "it" either. Competant, but not a race winner (I'm not counting the one he inherited), and the other two...

Edited by onemoresolo, 19 October 2009 - 22:39.


#85 WebBerK

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:51

Gil De Ferran never made it, but I think taht as a former engineering student, he would be great in the TC era.

#86 Simon Says

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 22:56

Frentzen is the most dissapointing talent in F1 history. He was the guy who was beating Michael Schumacher before F1, in F1 all somehow changed for some reason.

#87 WebBerK

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 23:16

Frentzen is the most dissapointing talent in F1 history. He was the guy who was beating Michael Schumacher before F1, in F1 all somehow changed for some reason.

Schupy did a dirty move and stole Frentzen's girlfriend.

#88 Rob G

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 23:37

But I must admit Taki Inoue or Ukyo Katayama take the biscuit. On those ground when compared to them two muppets, Kovalainen does indeed have some talent. :lol:

Katayama wasn't bad. Comparing him to his Tyrrell teammates, he usually out-qualified Mark Blundell and was rarely far from Mika Salo on the grid.

#89 Anssi

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 00:45

You're not listening. The car is not built for Lewis, last year Hamilton specifically stated that he liked how the 2007 car handled over the 2008 car, and that he's had to change his style, same for this year's car, Hamilton's just adapting to it better than Kov is.



You are not listening. I was saying what Heikki has said about it. The car is better for Lewis' driving style, and Heikki should change his style to match that. This was not invented by me.

I maintain you cannot fairly assess Heikki's speed if you force him to drop his own driving style and tell him to drive like that other guy drives.

Edited by Anssi, 20 October 2009 - 00:47.


#90 gerry nassar

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 01:02

For me it would be Zanardi. He was a god at Indy/CART but couldnt get to grips with F1. Likewise Bourdais.

Agree about Magnussen too.

I kind of expected Kova to dissapoint seeing as he dropped the ball against Rosberg in GP2. I was impressed by both back then and supported Rosberg, but now I dont rate Rosberg as highly and Kova is behind him.

I also think Fisichella was disapointing. His star was shining VERY brightly in the late 90s but once he got into a top line car he struggled.

Add to that Wurz. He was a revelation in 97/98 - then his form just plummeted.

#91 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 01:29

It might not be much, but he did beat Fisico at Renault. If he stays perhaps he will have a car better suited to his driving style next season.

And Renault want Kubica/Glock not Kubica/Kovalainen!

Quite definitive.

Kovalainen -> off to some newbie team?

#92 Arion

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 02:38

I'm not sure what it is with the Renault development programme. The last three drivers they've brought into F1 have looked very good in the lower formulae, and then like a fish out of water in F1 (although Heikki has been the best of a bad bunch). Piquet and Grosjean's F1 performances make them look like completely different people compared to their performances in lower formulae. Heikki just doesn't seem to have "it" either. Competant, but not a race winner (I'm not counting the one he inherited), and the other two...


I think part of it is the car, they all had to struggle with a midfield car, and part of it is how Biatore handled them. Heikki only looks comparatively better than the other two because he wasn't up against Alonso in his rookie season, and he had lots of pre season testing.



#93 maccaFTW

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:08

I consider Bourdais to be the biggest failure in F1, must have been because all those years spent in Champ and getting more acustomed to the US style of racing than the European one. And also, i think the high expectations got to him mentally, and the car was a dog. That only shows you how good of a driver Vettel really is.


The signs were already bad when Bourdais tested before 2007 with Toro Rosso and was slower than Liuzzi.

#94 GerardF1

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:10

Cristiano da Matta



#95 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:25

The signs were already bad when Bourdais tested before 2007 with Toro Rosso and was slower than Liuzzi.

What about when Bourdais beat Vettel :wave:

The understeering earlier car, very much had Bourdais no worse than on par with the "wonderkid supermegastar".

#96 travbrad

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:55

Also Romian Grosjean has been dissapointing this year maybe as bad as Piquet.


Well to be fair he did have almost no testing preparation, but I'm not sure why people rated him so highly in the first place. He was doing well in GP2, but also in the best car, and barely beating his teammate. I didn't see anything from him that would lead me to believe he was great. I was a bit surprised that Renault replaced Piquet with him to be honest. I guess it's better to find out he's not up for it now than next season.

If anyone from GP2 was truly impressive this year, it would have to be Hulkenberg, although again I'm not convinced he's as amazing as the hype would indicate. It's always very hard to say until they actually enter F1 though.

#97 Blue

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:59

I was saying what Heikki has said about it. The car is better for Lewis' driving style,


Has Heikki really said directly that the car is more to Lewis’ style?
I know he has said many times that he is forced to drive unnatural way; but that it is better suited to Lewis, I can’t remember.

Edited by Blue, 20 October 2009 - 08:52.


#98 Tomerell

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:48

You guys don't have BS rubber in Finland? Every Fin driver suffers from not knowing how to use this tyre brand.



Mika won BS first titles so don't BS me :rotfl:

#99 silver

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:50

Has Heikki really said directly that the car is more to Lewis’ style?
I know he has said many times that he force to drive unnatural way; but that it is better suited to Lewis, I can’t remember.


Kovalainen told in one interview that current McLaren needs to driven in the way that suites Hamilton. Braking and accelerating should be done in straight line.

Kovalainen's natural style is to brake while turning in (trail braking) and then to use throttle to turn car faster to point to next straight. He was using this style earlier but it destroyed his rear tires so it was not possible to drive that car with his style.

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#100 Arion

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:53

why does every thread about a Finn turns into a 'the car doesn't suit me" debate