41 replies to this topic

[cabianca]

The 1954 2.5 liter F1 regulations had been announced as early as 1950/51, and at the time everyone expected the 1.5/4.5 formula to last until the new formula began. However, the withdrawal of Alfa began a series of events that caused the FIA to decide to run the 1952 and 1953 World Championship for Formula 2 cars. Their motivation seems to have been that there weren't many competitive F1 cars available and the cheaper F2 cars would be more plentiful and allow the manufacturers to regroup and plan new cars for 1954. Obviously, Alfa didn't announce their withdrawal until after the end of the 1951 season, but I believe the FIA's decision may have come as late as sometime in 1952. Can anyone fix the date of the announcement that the 1952 WC would be contested by F2 cars. I have searched the archives and cannot find a specific reference. Many thanks.

[Formula Once]

The 1954 2.5 liter F1 regulations had been announced as early as 1950/51, and at the time everyone expected the 1.5/4.5 formula to last until the new formula began. However, the withdrawal of Alfa began a series of events that caused the FIA to decide to run the 1952 and 1953 World Championship for Formula 2 cars. Their motivation seems to have been that there weren't many competitive F1 cars available and the cheaper F2 cars would be more plentiful and allow the manufacturers to regroup and plan new cars for 1954. Obviously, Alfa didn't announce their withdrawal until after the end of the 1951 season, but I believe the FIA's decision may have come as late as sometime in 1952. Can anyone fix the date of the announcement that the 1952 WC would be contested by F2 cars. I have searched the archives and cannot find a specific reference. Many thanks.

And while we are at it, when precisely was known that as far as n/a engines was concerned, 2.5 liter would be the max from 1954 onwards?

[taylov]

Can anyone fix the date of the announcement that the 1952 WC would be contested by F2 cars. I have searched the archives and cannot find a specific reference. Many thanks.

I flicked through my Autosports for early 1952. It seems strange to 2009 eyes but it was the individual race organisers who took the lead. Week by week more and more of the classic European Grand Prix races announced their intention to hold their events with F2 rather than F1 cars.

The Italian and Belgian races held out for F1 longest but they too switched and no classic Grands Prix ran F1 cars in 1952.

Volume One of Doug Nye's book "BRM" tells the story very well.

Tony

[Tim Murray]

Have a look at these earlier threads:

1952-1953: F2 replaced F1

World championship 1952 F1 to F2

It would seem that this was not a CSI decision - as Tony says, they were presented with a fait accompli when all the European event organisers chose to run their events to F2 rules.

Edited by Tim Murray, 03 November 2009 - 19:09.

[Doug Nye]

At the Paris Salon meeting of the CSI on October 2-4, 1951, the 2 1/2-litre Formula was agreed, to take effect from January 1, 1954. Alfa Romeo had made noises about supporting 'selected' events in 1952, muttering about a preference for short-distance races. That would leave only BRM to provide contemporary opposition to the works Ferrari 375s. But BRM had earned a well-deserved reputation for non-appearance after 'guaranteeing' entries. The prospect was of Ferrari 375 walk-over demonstrations, and across Europe race organisers feared for public interest. During the winter of 1951-52 French race organisers began a rising chorus in favour of flipping their F1 races to Formula 2.

In mid-January 1952 'Autosport' reported "BOMBSHELL FROM FRANCE: Wholesale switch-over to Formula 2". It was expected that organisers in Belgium, Holland, Switzerland and Germany would likewise switch categories for their Grands Prix.

Within the CSI French influence then made noises that by common consent World Championship statuts could be given to Formula 2 "...if insufficient F1 events were held".

So there was still doubt, nothing confirmed. On January 18 BRM issued a press release announcing its intention to compete with a team of V16 cars in all Grand Prix races and in any F1 event that could be fitted in.

On February 9 Earl Howe wrote to Raymond Mays commiserating with what appeared to be a fait accompli, but enclosing a card from the AC Torino in Italy who were definitely running their GP - on April 6 - to Formula 1. Desmond Scannell of the BRDC had already confirmed that the British GP would run to Formula 2. On March 18 the Belgian GP was still considered to be scheduled for Formula 1 as the GP d'Europe. The Italian and Spanish GPs at that point were also listed still as Formula 1, and "there is doubt about the German GP" whether it would be F1 or F2.

BRM were testing at Monza. It was easy to take the cars across to Turin for the Valentino Park F1 race, and then Raymond Mays of BRM became star struck by the notion of having World Champion Fangio join his team. Desmond Scannell had contacted Fangio in Argentina to drive in the F2 May Meeting at Silverstone. The great man was coming to England. Ray became mesmerised. Fangio could test in England between March 30 and April 5. Ray ordered the team to bring the cars back from Monza for Fangio to test. BRM's plans for Turin entries were cancelled.

The team returned - mutinous.

The Turin GP became the predicted Ferrari 375 walkover which other race organisers had predicted and feared.

And all the senior GPs were then confirmed for Formula 2.

Mays had only himself and his celebrity-fever to blame for it.

And Fangio? He said he'd have happily tested some other time.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 03 November 2009 - 19:42.

[Formula Once]

Thank you Doug. Now you make me wonder; when in 1951 were there first any noises about a 2.5 liter rule from 1954? I am asking because Ferrari ran a 2.5 liter 212 engine in two F1 events early on in 1951 and I never understood why.

Edited by Formula Once, 03 November 2009 - 19:26.

[uechtel]

German motorsport magazine "Motor Rundschau", No 21/1951 (November 1951) reports:
"World Championship events also for Formula II and Formula III [!] cars? -
The rules for next year´s Automobile World Championship were changed by the FIA sports commission, that the number of events - by addition of the GP of the Netherlands and Brazil - is increased from 8 to 10, but - by maintaining the current points system - again only the four best results will count for the title. Even more important is the decision, that beginning in 1952 championship races can be announced for Formula I as well as for Formula II or Formula III, so that in future no longer the make, but the driver will be in the focuss of the championship. Without doubt various countries will follow this new decision - already because of financial aspects - and announce their Grands Prix no longer for Formula I."
(sorry for poor translation)

So as I understand this, there was no official decision to run the championship no longer under Formula I rules neither to run it under Formula II completely, but it was intentionally left to each organizer to choose the Formula of their GP.

[uechtel]

Thank you Doug. Now you make me wonder; when in 1951 were there first any noises about a 2.5 liter rule from 1954? I am asking because Ferrari ran a 2.5 liter 212 engine in two F1 events early on in 1951 and I never understood why.

This is indeed an interesting question, especially as the 212 was of course slightly over the 2.5 l limit.

Some answers are Swiss "Automobil Revue", No 14/1951 (16th March 1951):
"News from Ferrari -
[...] Enzo Ferrari is not completely enthusiastic about the new Formula that was recently proposed at Bruxelles, but at least he can agree with it. Of course he would have preferred a 2 litre forumla, but his successes with normally aspirated engines of 2 litres and more are a good starting point for him into the new formula.
Despite the new formula 1 will be valid as late as in 1954 [b]as a test Ferrari has already increased one of his engines to 2.5 litres. With this Zurich Rudi Fischer took part in the Formula 1 race at Syracuse and achieved a respectable 3rd place in front of the 4.5 litre Talbots of Louveau and Rosier. This is not only an excellent performance by Fischer (who started the first time on a Ferrari), but alsso for that prototype engine. [...]"

Interestingly in the same issue there is also a photo of Serafini, who drove a 2.5 litre car in that race as well, but without being mentioned in the article.

[RA Historian]

Which brings me to a pet peeve. All too often I find articles, authors, etc., who should know better, referring to the events of 1952 and 1953 as being "F-1 World Championship" events, which plainly they were not. Among the more egregious offenses was, of all publications, Motor Sport, which a number of years ago named the Ferrari 500 of 1952-53 as the 'greatest ever Formula One car' !! Oh for crying out loud! Talk about people who should know better! Not to mention the occasional reference to Alberto Ascari as being a 'two time Formula One Champion'. Sheer nonsense.
Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 03 November 2009 - 23:14.

[Vitesse2]

Er ... surely the main point is that - at that time - the FIA didn't actually specify what formula the races had to be run to? They merely nominated the races which made up their World Championship for Drivers: the Grandes Épreuves. In 1950-51 it just so happened that all but one was run to the then current Formula 1, but the organisers of the various national Grands Prix, realising that in 1952 their races would attract only a very few cars, took a pragmatic decision to switch to F2, which had already proved that it could offer a competitive and entertaining mix of works and privateer teams.

There is an historical precedent (sort of) for this: had the 1939 AIACR European Championship been completed, one of the races (the Italian GP) would have been run to a different formula to the others.

[Doug Nye]

RAH - You and me too...

That was a rather different 'Motor Sport' to the current one by the way.

Vitesse - very good point, as usual.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 03 November 2009 - 23:36.

[Formula Once]

This is indeed an interesting question, especially as the 212 was of course slightly over the 2.5 l limit.

Some answers are Swiss "Automobil Revue", No 14/1951 (16th March 1951):
"News from Ferrari -
[...] Enzo Ferrari is not completely enthusiastic about the new Formula that was recently proposed at Bruxelles, but at least he can agree with it. Of course he would have preferred a 2 litre forumla, but his successes with normally aspirated engines of 2 litres and more are a good starting point for him into the new formula.
Despite the new formula 1 will be valid as late as in 1954 [b]as a test Ferrari has already increased one of his engines to 2.5 litres. With this Zurich Rudi Fischer took part in the Formula 1 race at Syracuse and achieved a respectable 3rd place in front of the 4.5 litre Talbots of Louveau and Rosier. This is not only an excellent performance by Fischer (who started the first time on a Ferrari), but alsso for that prototype engine. [...]"

Interestingly in the same issue there is also a photo of Serafini, who drove a 2.5 litre car in that race as well, but without being mentioned in the article.

Thank you for sharing this uechtel, interesting (Oh, and please check your PM).

[Tim Murray]

The rationale behind running all the European GPs for F2 cars in 1952 has been pretty well explained, but what of 1953? Was there ever any suggestion that the 1953 World Championship races might revert to F1 rules, or was it taken for granted that F2 would hold sway until the new formula took over in 1954?

[Kvadrat]

Can anyone fix the date of the announcement that the 1952 WC would be contested by F2 cars. I have searched the archives and cannot find a specific reference.

...because there was no such a decision and announcement.

WDC wasn't that kind of competition as FIA Formula One World Championship is now. There was no complete control on everything in WDC. FIA/CSI did not organize races or series of races, it just nominated Grandes Epreuves and then announced driver who collected highest number of points as Champion of the World.

[uechtel]

The rationale behind running all the European GPs for F2 cars in 1952 has been pretty well explained, but what of 1953? Was there ever any suggestion that the 1953 World Championship races might revert to F1 rules, or was it taken for granted that F2 would hold sway until the new formula took over in 1954?

As stated before every organizer was free to choose the formula for his event. With no competitive field of Formula 1 cars available, a successful 1952 season and Maserati joining in I think the decision for them was easier than in 1952.

But I remember from my records, that during 1951 there had been discussions to start the new Formula 1 a year earlier in 1953, but I can not remember why this was not decided at the end.

[uechtel]

Thank you Doug. Now you make me wonder; when in 1951 were there first any noises about a 2.5 liter rule from 1954? I am asking because Ferrari ran a 2.5 liter 212 engine in two F1 events early on in 1951 and I never understood why.

Nevertheless still unanswered to me are the two questions:

Why did Ferrari produce this 2.6 litre GP car in 1951?
What were Fischer´s intentions to buy such a car in 1951, which on paper would not be competitive for any kind of formula and would certainly even be outclassed by Ferrari´s or other manufacturer´s following Formula 2 designs of 1952 or 1953?

[# 0]

Hill Climbs?

[wenoopy]

Nevertheless still unanswered to me are the two questions:

Why did Ferrari produce this 2.6 litre GP car in 1951?
What were Fischer´s intentions to buy such a car in 1951, which on paper would not be competitive for any kind of formula and would certainly even be outclassed by Ferrari´s or other manufacturer´s following Formula 2 designs of 1952 or 1953?

In your own quote from Swiss "Auto Revue", you say that Ferrari produced this 2.5 or 2.6 litre engine "as a test". Presumably he was happy with its performance, and subsequently engines of 3.3, 4.1 and eventually 4.5 litres were produced. You could compare this with the development of the Coventry-Climax engines in 1957-58 with capacity increases from the original 1.5 Formula 2 engine, through 1750cc and 1960cc versions to the eventual 2.5 litre.

The different Ferrari engines were produced over a very short period of time in 1950, presumably part of a continuing design process, with the intermediate engine sizes representing stages in the process.

[Vitesse2]

At the Paris Salon meeting of the CSI on October 2-4, 1951, the 2 1/2-litre Formula was agreed, to take effect from January 1, 1954.

DCN

.... thus finally agreeing to a request made by the manufacturers in January 1936 that they should have two clear years notice of any change in the Formula! The wheels of the CSI always did grind exceeding slow ....

[uechtel]

In your own quote from Swiss "Auto Revue", you say that Ferrari produced this 2.5 or 2.6 litre engine "as a test". Presumably he was happy with its performance, and subsequently engines of 3.3, 4.1 and eventually 4.5 litres were produced. You could compare this with the development of the Coventry-Climax engines in 1957-58 with capacity increases from the original 1.5 Formula 2 engine, through 1750cc and 1960cc versions to the eventual 2.5 litre.

The different Ferrari engines were produced over a very short period of time in 1950, presumably part of a continuing design process, with the intermediate engine sizes representing stages in the process.

Does not quite fit in my opinion, as those stages of engine enlargement were already during 1950, while the 2.5/2.6 litre "test" engine was produced in 1951 when the 4.5 litre version was already available. Or was it and only declared as "test for 1954" while in reality only a left-over from 1950?

[Formula Once]

Remember the 1951 2,5 something liter 212 engine was based on a Colombo-block, not that of Lampedri who's engine ultimately evolved into that 4,5 liter unit. Maybe the 2,5 liter engine Fischer used early on in 1951 was probabbly just a souped up sportscar engine. And maybe Ferrari's own 212-engine wasn't even that much different. Rules wise at that stage it didnt matter it was a little larger than 2500cc anyway, so why make it fractionally smaller if it was just a test? And remember too that Fischer was an amateur racer who may not have had the ambition or the money to do F1 proper. The chassis he bought and which he initially ran as a 212 F1 could be used as an F2 too, which he quickly decided to do in fact (he put a 2 liter engine in it, ran it as a 166 F2 and was quite succesful with it) before buying an 500 F2 for the 1952 season. That still doesnt explain why he ALSO bought a 2,5-ish liter engine of course, but maybe it just came cheap as part of whatever deal he did with Enzo in that winter of 1950.

[HDonaldCapps]

Which brings me to a pet peeve. All too often I find articles, authors, etc., who should know better, referring to the events of 1952 and 1953 as being "F-1 World Championship" events, which plainly they were not. Among the more egregious offenses was, of all publications, Motor Sport, which a number of years ago named the Ferrari 500 of 1952-53 as the 'greatest ever Formula One car' !! Oh for crying out loud! Talk about people who should know better! Not to mention the occasional reference to Alberto Ascari as being a 'two time Formula One Champion'. Sheer nonsense.
Tom

Tom,

(1) You make a great leap of faith in your assumption that "....articles, authors, etc., who should know better," actually know better. Experience shows that they rarely do know better -- or even much for that matter.

(2) "Not to mention the occasional reference to Alberto Ascari as being a 'two time Formula One Champion'," which would quite something since the FIA Formula One World Championship did not exist until the 1981 season. Of course, that is usually dismissed as mere semantics, which allows us to seque to....

WDC wasn't that kind of competition as FIA Formula One World Championship is now. There was no complete control on everything in WDC. FIA/CSI did not organize races or series of races, it just nominated Grandes Epreuves and then announced driver who collected highest number of points as Champion of the World.

It was very different world, one which too few seem to have much empathy for it seems. "Nostalgia" or "enthusiasm" is not empathy in the sense that historians use the term. Having said that, this forum is perhaps one of the few places this issue has been discussed in any depth, a discussion greatly aided by DCN and others who began kicking over the rocks and piecing together a better picture of what happened during the period in question.

[RA Historian]

Er ... surely the main point is that - at that time - the FIA didn't actually specify what formula the races had to be run to? They merely nominated the races which made up their World Championship for Drivers: the Grandes Épreuves.

Exactly! It was the World Championship, period. I do not think that the current term, F-1 World Championship, was used at all prior to, what, 1981. The whole setup then was radically different from today where we have the commercial rights holder,CVS Partners in the person of BCE, setting the schedule, giving out the dates, and making up the calendar. Back when, the individual circuits scheduled their races, the national ACN designated what was the "Grand Prix" of that particular country, and then the FIA designated which races would get World Championship status. Almost the complete reverse of today.
Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 04 November 2009 - 16:23.

[stevewf1]

Er ... surely the main point is that - at that time - the FIA didn't actually specify what formula the races had to be run to? They merely nominated the races which made up their World Championship for Drivers: the Grandes Épreuves.

Also, the Indianapolis 500 was a part of the World Championship 1950-1960, and that certainly wasn't an "F1" race...

[Roger Clark]

Things weren't quite as free as some suggest. When the German Grand Prix was run as a formula 2 race in 1960 there was no question of it counting for the world championship, as far as i am aware.

[uechtel]

The mentionet article in "Motor Rundschau" also leaves room for the interpretation, that it was an explicit decision in 1951, not to restrict the Championship to Formula 1 (plus Indy...) any longer.

Anyway, when Formula 2 was introduced in 1948, all reports talked about a "second Grand Prix formula", which suggests something like a choice for the organizers.

[HDonaldCapps]

Also, the Indianapolis 500 was a part of the World Championship 1950-1960, and that certainly wasn't an "F1" race...

Things weren't quite as free as some suggest. When the German Grand Prix was run as a formula 2 race in 1960 there was no question of it counting for the world championship, as far as i am aware.

It often seems that we are much like Sisyphus in that we keep rolling that rock up the hill....

As Roger suggests, the reality is far more nuanced and with slightly more twists and turns than would be readily apparent. There is also a major difficulty -- perhaps an inability -- on the part of many to realize that the administration of the Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs was conducted in a very different manner than that of the current "FIA Formula One World Championship" which replaced it beginning with the 1981 season. In theory, the Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs could be conducted to whatever whatever "formula" the CSI chose, as well as include whatever events it wished that were run to different formulae. As might seem logical, the Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs was run using the formule internationale no 1, although there was an exception made for the American Grande Epreuve, the International 500 Mile Sweepstakes run at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the period 1950 to 1960.

The CSI regulations for the Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs mandated that from 1961 to 1965 that the formule internationale no 1 in effect would be used; the same applied when there was a change to the formula beginning with the 1966 season. The addition of the American Grande Epreuve during 1950 thru 1953 was not much of a problem since the vast majority of the cars competing in the event did conform to the formule internationale no 1 then in effect. From 1954 to 1960, however, it was a bit of stretch and definitely an anomaly.

This ground and much like it has been covered in the past, of course. Part of the problem is that relatively little attention has been directed towards the actual operations and workings of the CSI over the years it operated. While generally lambasted and criticized (often with good reason it would seem), the administration and functioning of the CSI as an organization has been relegated to the outer regions of interest, usually done so on the grounds of its politics or simply the lack of information or familiarity with the CSI.

It is an irony to think that future historians will be much informed when it comes to context and viewing things in a holistic manner.

[Kvadrat]

The circle had closed. In the fifties everybody knew that race organisers changed their minds in favour of F2 in 1952. Then someone said that the decision was made by FIA. No we discovered the truth about F2 and race organisers. But who invented the FIA story?

I made a search through some books I have and what I have found.

1953
Gregor Grant - Formula 2
FORMULA 2 racing, for cars of up to 500-c.c. supercharged, and 2,000-c.c. unsupercharged, became of major importance in 1952 when the organizers of the grandes epreuves abandoned the existing Formula 1 (1,500-c.c. S, and 4,500-c.c. U/s) in favour of the smaller category... France started the ball rolling by announcing that the eight Grands Prix of France in 1952 would be organized to Formula 2, and that these races would carry an extremely large amount of prize-money, both accumulative, and to be won at each event. Naturally this gave race organizers in other countries seriously to think. Switzerland tentatively announced that the Swiss G.P. would also be for Formula 2 cars, but Belgium stated that their G.P., which was also the Grand Prix of Europe, would be a Formula 1 affair...Almost immediately after Turin, the Belgians announced that the G.P. of Europe would be switched from Formula 1 to Formula 2. The B.R.D.C. confirmed that the Daily Express International Trophy at Silverstone would also be a Formula 2 affair, and later announced that the British Grand Prix would also be for cars of that category.
...
Suddenly Formula 2 racing was elevated to full Grand Prix status. The withdrawal of Alfa-Romeo from the grandes йpreuves, the failure of the B.R.M.s to fulfil their early promise, and the obsolescence of the Lago-Talbots made it obvious that organizers would have great difficulty in finding any sort of opposition for the 4J-litre, unsupercharged O.P. Ferraris. France started the ball rolling by announcing that, with the possible exception of Albi, her major Grand Prix events, including the G.P. de l'A.C. de F. (French G.P.) would be for Formula 2 machines. Millions of francs were offered to be won in the series, which would be held at Pau, Marseilles, Paris, Rheims, Rouen, Sables 1'Olonne, Comminges and La Baule. As everyone now knows, this wholesale switchover to Formula 2 had very far-reaching effects. Other countries eventually followed suit, and announced their grandes йpreuves would also be for Formula 2 machinery.

1970
Giovanni Lurani - History of the racing Car: Man and Machine
Increasingly, therefore, race organizers abandoned Formula 1 in favour of the 2-litre Formula 2, and when the BRM entry for the early-season Turin GP was withdrawn, Formula 1 to all intents and purposes collapsed, and the FIA agreed that the World Championship series would be for Formula 2 races.

1977
Wiliam Boddy, Brian Laban - The History of Motor Racing
So, Fi tended to take on a subdued aspect, in 1952, with only Ferrari ready to race his 4 1/2-litre cars. For this reason, many organisers took a look at the situation, with the V16 BRM still giving much trouble, and then decided to hold only Formula Two races, which attracted big and varied fields.

1980
Eric Dymock - The Guinness Guide to Grand Prix Motor Racing
When the BRM failed to appear for a non-championship Formula 1 race at Turin in April, national automobile clubs all over Europe decided on Formula 2 events.

1986
Adriano Cimarosti - The Camel Complete History of Grand Prix Motor Racing
In 1951 the FIA decided the Grand Prix I formula for the 1952 and 1953 World I Championships would be the 1948 Formula Two.

1987
Alan Henry, Alan Briton - Grand Prix
For 1952—3 the FIA changed the specification to Formula B (or Formula 2 as it came to be called) — a voiturette class for unblown 2-litre cars.

1991
Ivan Rendall - The Power and the Glory: A Century of Motor Racing
With Alfa out of racing and BRM not meeting expectations, Ferrari was the only team with a competitive car for the 1952 season. The World Championship was run using Formula Two cars.

1991
Anthony Pritchard - A Century of Grand Prix Motor Racing
Although the decision to run World Championship Grands Prix in 1952 to Formula 2 was made late, there was no shortage of contestants.

1993
Ivan Rendall - The Chequered Flag: 100 Years of Motor Racing
Promoters turned to Formula Two, which had been flourishing since 1948, and bowing to the inevitable the FIA agreed that for the 1953 and 1954 World Championship points would be awarded in Formula Two races.

1999
Giuseppe Guzzardi, Enzo Rizzo - Motor Racing: A Century of Competition and Human Challenges
The solution that was found was valid and providential: in order to give the constructors time to design new Formula 1 cars, for two years the World Championship was reserved for Formula 2 cars.

So was it well respected Adriano Cimarosti?

[Doug Nye]

In the early months of 1952 it really was not clear at all which way a majority of race organisers was going to jump - to maintain support for Formula 1 in their national Grand Prix races, or to opt for the bigger grids (and potentially greater reliability) of Formula 2. While some made their preference for F2 clear quite early on, others kept dickering about for many weeks before committing their events, one way or the other.

A key event was the non-Championship Turin GP in which BRM's last-minute entry cancellation presented Ferrari with an unopposed walk-over. This was exactly what the majority of race promoters had feared would happen - and so they confirmed their preference for F2. In effect the FIA then rubber-stamped the inevitable. They did not lead in this redirection of their Drivers' World Championship, they acquiesced...

DCN

[Michael Ferner]

I still don't think that the FIA ever "rubber-stamped" anything. I have a clear memory of an article in late 1953 stating that the (eventually cancelled) European Grand Prix in Spain was to be run to Formula One rules, and count for the World Championship. So, apparently it wasn't rubber-stamped even a month after the last F2 WC round was held!


Btw, thanks Vladimir for the interesting post!

[uechtel]

Also only to my memory I think I have read a contemporary article from around winter 1951/52, maybe in Automobil Revue, stating, that FIA opened championship events to formula 2. This would still have allowed to run them with Formula 1 rules as well.

To me it looks like the national automobilcubs had been always free to decide which formula to use for their national GP (for example Germany 1950 or 1960, Monaco 1952 etc.), but usually if they chose something else than Formula 1 it would have lost WC status - if they did not get an explicit exception by the FIA (like Indianapolis). For 1952 and 1953 the FIA gave a general exception for all organizers, that their race would still retain WC status if they chose Formula 2.

[Hugo Boecker]

I think, the "Grand Prix de France" F2 Series with 7 events played a role in the decision for changing to F2 instead of F1 in 1952. In thoose days spectator fees played a massiv role in financing races. So organizers have look how to get the most spectators to an event. The French did this with Formula 2 races. More competitors, and one of the main favorit team was French, just much more interesting races than the dull Ferrari prosessions expacted in F1, when it came clear in early season that BRM wasn't competitive. So a good F2 or sportcar race would draw more attention than F1.
Btw - The French Series was a good as any F2 championship race and today such races would be championship race as well. If you want, add International Trophy Monza and Modena, you could have a 17 race championship. But the result was the same as in F1 Ferrari won all (besides Reims) were they participated.

[uechtel]

I think, the "Grand Prix de France" F2 Series with 7 events played a role in the decision for changing to F2 instead of F1 in 1952. In thoose days spectator fees played a massiv role in financing races. So organizers have look how to get the most spectators to an event.

Yes, of course poplarity reasons must have stood behind the change to Formula 2. But nevertheless there had not been a decision to "switch" the whole world championship by the FIA, instead still the national automobil clubs decided one by one to change their GP to Formula 2 regulations.

[uechtel]

Ah, found it. Automobil Revue 17.10.1951 p.45 (German edition): In the previuos issue they had brought a longer report about the main decision of the recent Paris meeting of the FIA, to extend the current Formula 1 specification till the end of 1953 and then replace Formula 1 and Formula 2 by the new 2.5 litre formula. In this issue they give a short list of some further decisions of the meeting:

"Neben den in unserer letzten Nummer veröffentlichten Beschlüssen der FIA wurde in Ergänzung oder Abänderung der Reglemente noch folgendes bestimmt:
...
- die für die Weltmeisterschaftswertung zählenden Grossen Preise können für Formel 1, 2 oder 3 ausgeschrieben werden
...
"

Translation attempt:
"Besides the decisions we have already publiched in our previous number, in amendment or change of the regulations the FIA has also determined the following issues:
...
- the Grand Prix counting for the world championship rating can be announced for Formula 1, 2 or 3
...
"

[uechtel]

Further findings:

21.10.1951:
The French GP 1952 is announced for Formula 1 or 2 ("...der für Formel 1 oder 2 ausgeschrieben ist..." - do not find a proper translation)

16.01.1952:
Commentary: "After the decision of the FIA all 'grande epreuves' have to be run over 500 km distanbce or 3 hours duration. Now on this year´s meeting it was also decided, that the organizers of world championship races are no longer obliged to run them for Formula 1 cars. According to the now available statements it seems an entire possibility, that some of the countries will make use of this sanction. But obvioulsy with this the FIA has forgotten about the 500-km- respectively 3-hours-rule, because it would nat have been the intention of its delegates to apply this also to Formula 2 races."

[David McKinney]

Some important revelations there, uechtel

[uechtel]

Thanks you. Nice to see that this gets interest.

Further findings:

21.10.1951:
The French GP 1952 is announced for Formula 1 or 2 ("...der für Formel 1 oder 2 ausgeschrieben ist..." - do not find a proper translation)

To make this more clearer, in German this is not a quite exact statement. It could mean, that Formula 2 cars were to run together with Formula 1, or that it is not yet clear, whether it will be a Formula-1- or a Formula-2-race.

[uechtel]

13.02.1952: "Whether the Swiss Grand Prix will held under Formula 1 regulations or whether Bern will follow the common tendency towards Formula 2 will strongly depend on Alfa Romeo´s decision of their further engagement, which is expected soon."

Also same edition: "As for the coming season it is to be excpected, that some countries will posteriously switch their Grands Prix to Formula 2 (Germany, France), recently a competent member of the English Automobile Club has declared, that there will be no other chance for England than to follow this trend. The BRM people are now severly concerned, because by this they would loose an important opportunity of a start, but they have already agreed to come with at least two cars to Berne."

Edited by uechtel, 03 May 2011 - 17:03.

[uechtel]

20.02.1952: "It seems that the Grand Prix of France, which will be carried out on the Circuit des Essarts at Rouen, will be reserved for Formula 2 cars and at the same time been taken up into the series of the 'Grand Prix de France'.

12.03.1952: "The administrative board of the Alfa Romeo SA has finally decided, not to take part in Formula 1 races in the upcoming season. At the same time it was announced, that in spite of this decision the works will attend the sports car races (Mille Miglia, Le Mans etc.) and also develop a nhew car for the 1954 formula"

19.03.1952: "Because of the retirement of Alfa Romeo the organizers of the Berne Grand Prix had to face the prospect of offering the spectators a race condemned to monotony. Therefore it is very likely that they will decide to reserve this year´s Grand Prix for Formula 2 cars. Of course also the Formula 2 races have also the big disadvantage, that Ferrari is the overwhelming favourite in this category as well. But despite this what will make a Formula 2 car interesting is the fact, that Formula 2 technology is coming to a real climax: Probably never before such a large number of new developments has been created for a new season, whil nearly all existing designs have received important improvements. Therefore it will be thoroughly possible, that one driver or another may really challenge the pilots from Maranello.
Once again we would like to point out that the Swiss Grand Prix will still be counted as a round of the world championship, even if it is switched from Formula 1 to Formula 2."

[uechtel]

06.08.1952: "Following the course of time, also the Spanish Grand Prix, which will be held at October, 26th at Barcelona, has been switched from Formula 1 to Formula 2"

[uechtel]

15.10.1952: "The International Sporting Comittee was held on 7th, 8th and 8th October and confirmed the following decisions of the plenary meeting of the FIA:
International racing formula: The comittee decided, that the new Formula 1 (up to 2.5 litre without, up to 750 cc with supercharger) will be obligatory from 1st January 1954 onward for all 'Grande Eprueves' and for the races counting towards the world championship, but only in case if at that date more than three manufacturers will have built cars accoridng to this formula."

[Vitesse2]

... but only in case if at that date more than three manufacturers will have built cars accoridng to this formula."

How very interesting!

That makes me think somebody on the CSI had a very long memory - like about 23 years