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Red Bull 2010 (merged)


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#101 Will

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:53

[url="http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80809"%5dp://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80809"]http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/80809[/url]

Red Bull to skip opening pre-season test.

Interesting strategy- often Newey cars come out at the last minute- which worked in 1998 but not every year...I wonder what effect the delayed start will have on the cars competitivenes.

Edited by Will, 12 January 2010 - 10:54.


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#102 Nuvol

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:57

It wont work this time. When was the last time his car won the title anyway?

#103 dank

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:57

[url="http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80809"%5dp://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80809"]http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/80809[/url]

Red Bull to skip opening pre-season test.

Interesting strategy- often Newey cars come out at the last minute- which worked in 1998 but not every year...I wonder what effect the delayed start will have on the cars competitivenes.

Probably very little. Though this year's cars are more evolutionary than revolutionary, I'm sure Newey and the Red Bull design team have a few aces up their sleeves when the RB6 is finally unveiled, and seeing as just about every 2010 car will look like last year's Red Bull, the longer they keep their cards close to their chest the better.

#104 Beamer

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:04

It wont work this time. When was the last time his car won the title anyway?


Well, it almost did last year... even without being initially designed for DDD and with no KERS...

#105 Nuvol

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:07

Well, it almost did last year... even without being initially designed for DDD and with no KERS...

And now the car has to be designed to carry full tank of fuel at the beginning of the race. I dont get this bullshit how all the cars gonna look like neweys 09 RB. Shame there is no toyota anymore coz those looser would copy it for sure. While the top teams wont! Period.

Edited by Nuvol, 12 January 2010 - 11:27.


#106 MadYarpen

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:08

I think other teams will again be owned in ass by newey, last year i thought they skip test because they are struggling and i was very wrong. RBR is my tip for the title, and I just hope that another renault powered team took some blind succesful shot while designing the car and will also be in front;)

#107 dank

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:43

And now the car has to be designed to carry full tank of fuel at the beginning of the race. I dont get this bullshit how all the cars gonna look like neweys 09 RB. Shame there is no toyota anymore coz those looser would copy it for sure. While the top teams wont! Period.


Well the RB5 has clearly been an influence on Ferrari this year, with the blueprints and drawings from Giorgio Piola looking very much like last year's Red Bull.

#108 hankalis

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 12:37

Well the RB5 has clearly been an influence on Ferrari this year, with the blueprints and drawings from Giorgio Piola looking very much like last year's Red Bull.


I think Piola drawings were just "illustrative" ... not drawings of the actual F61
he reported that Ferrari adopted - for this year's car- some of the concepts used in the RB5. it doesn't mean that the new Ferrari will look like the RB5 because these same concepts could well be implemented in a different way and more importantly because these concepts only cover a small part of the overall car design ...


#109 Mackey

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 19:33

I just saw the cover from this week Autosport magazine in the homepage, and it says "Red Bull big gamble". Anyone with the magazine can tell what is it about ?
Can Newey surprise us again?

#110 dank

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 19:35

I just saw the cover from this week Autosport magazine in the homepage, and it says "Red Bull big gamble". Anyone with the magazine can tell what is it about ?
Can Newey surprise us again?


It's this.

#111 alecc

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 19:41

I think Piola drawings were just "illustrative" ... not drawings of the actual F61
he reported that Ferrari adopted - for this year's car- some of the concepts used in the RB5. it doesn't mean that the new Ferrari will look like the RB5 because these same concepts could well be implemented in a different way and more importantly because these concepts only cover a small part of the overall car design ...


On the drawings Ferraris nose was similar to RB5, the Sauber "without wheels" also have a "RB5 nose", Renault engineers said that they will develop their nose to the "RB5 way", and even the aero engineer from Brawn said that the RB5 nose is much more efficient thant the BGP, so maybe even Mercedes will have a similar one.
So at least the nose of RB5 should make career.

#112 Trust

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 20:02

I hope this delay pay off when they reveal their car. I think Newey has now a chance to finally win championship if he don't mess up.

#113 Mackey

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 20:20

It's this.


Thanks. I don´t think that´s a "big gamble" btw. They did it last year too.


#114 dank

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 21:03

Thanks. I don´t think that´s a "big gamble" btw. They did it last year too.


Selling magazines 101: make something sound dramatic. :)

#115 BullHead

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 21:05

It's about tunnel time, which is a good thing. Worked pretty well last year.

#116 Hippo

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 21:17

Maybe Horner is only playing mind games? It could well be, that the RB6 is not so evolutionary as he claims. We could for example see them experimenting with the nose after Silverstone. At Spa and Suzuka it looked like neither of the existing versions was a clear favourite there. Also the DDD was only a compromise. I wouldn't be surprised if the new DDD and the whole rear of the car were pretty different.

Anyways, with only 12 days of testing it will be next to impossible to go the allowed 15'000 km prior to the season. I think they'll only get about two thirds of it. The real gamble would then be to do the "replacing driver test" at some time during the season without actually replacing the driver. The rules stipulate, that in this case the mileage of that particular test will be subtracted from the allowed 2011 testing mileage. If they get along with reduced tests again in 2011 this might improve their chances in 2010 quite a bit.

And one more thing there is to say. If they manage to built a car as competitive as the RB5 again with reduced track testing it only shows how great of a job their windtunnel and CFD guys are doing. Those guys are working their butts off the entire year and they seem to produce quite some accurate results. I salute to them.

#117 Timstr11

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 21:38

I expect them to drop the pull rod for 2010, so they have more room for the DDD.
In which case the back end will be very different from 2009.

#118 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 21:47

I expect them to drop the pull rod for 2010, so they have more room for the DDD.
In which case the back end will be very different from 2009.

If the rules stayed the same, I'd expect them to keep the pullrod suspension because it was quite an integral part of keeping the rear end nice and tight.

But it will certainly depend on how they deal with the larger fuel tank, and the associated changes in weight distribution that comes with it and the narrow front tires. Having such a tight rear end package might not be as important as before, as they can afford to throw a bit more weight towards the rear, but then again, they adapted quite well to the DDD rules even with the basic rear end ideas, so they might not want to mess with a good thing.

#119 TheF1PERSON

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 13:06

http://www.f1fanatic...-mercedes-deal/

As everyone predicted, Red Bull were blocked from a Mercedes deal.

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#120 Trust

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 13:37

Next year is different situation. Because Mercedes isn't that more cooperative with McLaren and Brawn actually became Mercedes. So now they can decide if they want to give engines. I hope Red Bull to receive engines in 2011.

#121 dank

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 20:06

http://www.f1fanatic...-mercedes-deal/

As everyone predicted, Red Bull were blocked from a Mercedes deal.


And more startling revelations, drop something and gravity will pull it to the ground, women like to buy shoes and Britain has had a bit of snow lately.

#122 Raincoat

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 20:27

Next year is different situation. Because Mercedes isn't that more cooperative with McLaren and Brawn actually became Mercedes. So now they can decide if they want to give engines. I hope Red Bull to receive engines in 2011.



The more reason why they WONT give away their engine. Can you imagine Ferrari giving their engine to their key rivals. Merc was happy to give away their engine to promote their brand. Now they have their own team and dont have to be overshadowed. $2M a year deal is not worth the money for helping their rivals beat them.

#123 Hippo

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 20:33

We don't even know how good each engine will be during the upcoming championship. What if the good fuel mileage of the Renault is the key to winning it? Or what if the new Cosworth is actually better than Mercedes? I say it's a bit prematurely to be hoping for the Merc 2011 right now.;)

#124 Owen

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 06:48

Interesting point about the Renault engine:

Performance isn’t going to be the holy grail in races this season; fuel efficiency is, due to the new rule outlawing refuelling. The Renault is the most fuel efficient engine in the field, so the Red Bull team can budget for a smaller fuel tank, which improves weight distribution and aerodynamics and they will carry a lighter fuel load at the start of the race. Every 3 kilos of fuel they carry less than their rivals will help them by a tenth of a second per lap. That could be decisive this year.


http://www.jamesalle...gines-for-2010/

#125 bankoq

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 08:44

OK, but in qualy it's more important to have power and not fuel efficiency. And qualifying will be even more important next year imho.

#126 SAFC09

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 08:53

OK, but in qualy it's more important to have power and not fuel efficiency. And qualifying will be even more important next year imho.


Good point, did i read on here that there is only 2 quali sessions instead of 3 next season, or did i imagine it ?

#127 Carlo's

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:01

There will be still 3 quali sessions but each on fumes.

#128 krapmeister

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:06

Good point, did i read on here that there is only 2 quali sessions instead of 3 next season, or did i imagine it ?


I think you've imagined it - AFAIK the only changes to qualy are the amount of cars that get culled in each session (due to the expected higher grid numbers) and that the 3rd session is done on 'low fuel' (same as qualy 1 & 2), and not race fuel as it has been doen previously...

#129 SAFC09

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:09

I think you've imagined it - AFAIK the only changes to qualy are the amount of cars that get culled in each session (due to the expected higher grid numbers) and that the 3rd session is done on 'low fuel' (same as qualy 1 & 2), and not race fuel as it has been doen previously...


:up: Cheers

:lol:

#130 Hippo

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 13:42

OK, but in qualy it's more important to have power and not fuel efficiency. And qualifying will be even more important next year imho.

Yeah well, but Sebastian and Mark did fairly good in the 09 campaign during qualifying, didn't they? Especially on low fuel in Q1+Q2 they have been very fast. But the engine was the Renault still, even without KERS. Sure, having more horsepower is always helpful. But it's not like the Renault is missing 300 hp.

#131 FPV GTHO

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 15:07

Lets wait and see how many other manufacturers cannibilise power for economy, primarily Ferrari.

I wouldnt be exactly disappointed either if we're left with a deficit in qualy that gets made up either during the course of the race or simply at the start. Should provide some extra excitement and drama at least.

#132 Melbourne Park

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 22:43

Of course the weight advantage also will benefit tyre life significantly ... but there is no reason to think that the MB plant cannot also run lean. We may simply not have seen that last season. There some races where the Brawn huge lots more fuel, but some others where their fuel use was much lower. I presume the MB will use less fuel this year than it did last year. Each teams respective fuel use will be a key ingredient to success though.

Are the teams allowed to change their engines after qualifying without penalty? If they are (the limit is 8 engines for the season still I think) I wonder if they will have a motor prepped for qualifying rather than stamina and efficicency?

Edited by Melbourne Park, 17 January 2010 - 22:47.


#133 jez33

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 16:06

If engine regulations remain static then yes teams would be able to swap engines in and out as they please, but why would they when they could simply alter the engine setting for qualifying v race.

#134 dank

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 23:09

Off-topic: Step aside Jeremy Clarkson. Here comes Mark Webber reviewing a trio of hatchbacks. No prizes for guessing which one wins. http://www.telegraph...tid=61432776001

#135 Turbo4

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 00:33

excellent, thanks for posting dank. :)

#136 jack_rabbit

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 01:23

a Red Bull on ICE !


Edited by jack_rabbit, 21 January 2010 - 01:23.


#137 Berner

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 16:27

The "better" Red Bull on Ice video (with sound): Canadians will appreciate the "CAR" warning!

#138 Sakae

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 13:51

Horner came out and identified Ferrari and McLaren as his competitors. No mention of Mercedes, despite Brawn's record. I wonder if he really is ignoring them, or plays some kind of a psychological game. To underestimate Mercedes engine with Haug, Ross, and Michael doesn't seems to be a such brilliant idea, and probably he might find out very quickly that it's a team that might be thorn in his side, and a big one. Anyway, we will see. I am still rooting for both, Michael and Seb; what a crazy life.

#139 Hippo

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 14:36

I think you're reading too much into it. To me it looks like the statements were actually answers to specific questions asked by some journalists. So if he was asked about Ferrari and McLaren then the answers make perfect sense. If anything it seems like some journalists tend to forget/ignore the Brawn team occasionally. Just watch the clip from last week. It's a bit more elaborate and there he also addresses Brawn, Mercedes and Schumacher.

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#140 Alfisti

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 15:37

Horner came out and identified Ferrari and McLaren as his competitors. No mention of Mercedes, despite Brawn's record. I wonder if he really is ignoring them, or plays some kind of a psychological game. To underestimate Mercedes engine with Haug, Ross, and Michael doesn't seems to be a such brilliant idea, and probably he might find out very quickly that it's a team that might be thorn in his side, and a big one. Anyway, we will see. I am still rooting for both, Michael and Seb; what a crazy life.



If pushed, yeah i'd have Mercedes 4th in line. I think Schumi and co are going to struggle, Rosberg is a tad under rated and will drive Schumi mad in his old age. I have the other three teams ahead of them right now.

#141 Sakae

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 15:41

Yes, this is more informative; one noteable remark about Mark being back to full speed in 3 races. That would contradict some conclusions of his fans on this BB giving him benefit of doubt regarding variance in performance, citing this particular handicap as a reason for Mark's showing.

#142 Sakae

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 15:49

While McLaren has shown upwards progress towards end of last season, I am not so sure about Ferrari, and all that trust they are a front team is based merely IMO on historical placings, than factual track performance end of 2009. Some people forgetting that Ferrari is also known to have bunch of dog years under their belt. Why WDC team was so quickly demoted is beyond my comprehension. I am not saying it's possible, but right now it's rather groundless pesimistic hypothesis.

If the car is OK, it's Seb, Michael and Hamster fighting for P1. Nico could be a good suprise, Alonso is probably set for a disapointment with the car, and Jenson is no-show. Mark is a dark horse, and I think he has shown us already all what he has (just my guess).

Edited by MiPe, 22 January 2010 - 15:51.


#143 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 16:02

While McLaren has shown upwards progress towards end of last season, I am not so sure about Ferrari

Mclaren kept developing the car, while Ferrari did not. But Ferrari were definitely getting stronger before they quit development, with Kimi being the leading scorer overall for a certain number of races there.

But yea, there will be a new design, which could go either way, but I think Ferrari's placement as a top team is because a team thats won a ton of WDC's and WCC's in the past decade cannot be considered anything but.

#144 Sakae

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 16:10

Mclaren kept developing the car, while Ferrari did not. But Ferrari were definitely getting stronger before they quit development, with Kimi being the leading scorer overall for a certain number of races there.

But yea, there will be a new design, which could go either way, but I think Ferrari's placement as a top team is because a team thats won a ton of WDC's and WCC's in the past decade cannot be considered anything but.

Fine, no argument from my side, but after Rory, Ross, Jean, and Michael has all left the team, what was really achieved under the new management? I do not want to be anal about this, but I think they went into gradual decline. Now, whether they managed to turn it around remains to be seen, but in no way I would put them ahead of Mercedes as yet. It will take me until Canada (Turkish GP at least) before I make my mind about pecking order.



#145 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 16:34

Fine, no argument from my side, but after Rory, Ross, Jean, and Michael has all left the team, what was really achieved under the new management? I do not want to be anal about this, but I think they went into gradual decline. Now, whether they managed to turn it around remains to be seen, but in no way I would put them ahead of Mercedes as yet. It will take me until Canada (Turkish GP at least) before I make my mind about pecking order.

Yea, I'm not saying Ferrari will *definitely* be a front-running team in 2010, just that it would insane to write them off at this point.

I'd say Horner's comments were made in a more 'long-term' sense, thinking that Ferrari and Mclaren are going to be the teams to beat in most any given season. Mercedes will likely be up there in 2010, but what about 2011 or 2012? If you want to talk about a lack of development pace, then there's a team that I'd be skeptical about.

If I *had* to guess, I think it will be between Red Bull and Mercedes. Mclaren were strong at the end of the last year, but take away their KERS advantage and you're looking at a car that definitely wasn't a race-winner. Ferrari were in the same boat, but with a brand new car, they may turn that around.

We'll see.

#146 PassWind

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 16:52

Lets wait and see how many other manufacturers cannibilise power for economy, primarily Ferrari.

I wouldnt be exactly disappointed either if we're left with a deficit in qualy that gets made up either during the course of the race or simply at the start. Should provide some extra excitement and drama at least.



No requirement there is a little dial on the wheel where the driver can de-tune on the fly. It will be more about who has the most thermal efficient design at fixed amount of power, even then I not sure if the chassis rules will expose to use the differences in engines to much. They really haven't for some time now.

#147 Hippo

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 17:17

To be honest I doubt there will be 4 cars roughly equally fast leading the rest. One or two of the potential front runners will not deliver. I think it's even more likely that only one team is ahead rather than 4 teams being there together. Let's hope it's not the RB6 that will be (one of) the dog(s). :D

#148 Alfisti

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 20:03

Gee the more i think about it ..... McLaren and RBR imho ..... put a few $$$ on Hamilton and vettel maybe .....

#149 showtime

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 14:30


2010 Car Launch Date Announced
26 | 01 | 10

This year's car, the RB6, will be unveiled in Spain on Wednesday, February 10 and you’ll get to see the pictures of our 2010 car here first.

Following months of hard work here at Milton Keynes, the RB6 will be launched at the start of the tests in Jerez.

On hand will be our two drivers Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel together with team principal Christian Horner and the car’s architect, our chief technical officer Adrian Newey.

So what was the thinking behind waiting until the second official test of the year? "We wanted to give ourselves as much time as possible to research and develop the car," said Adrian. "We felt that because the car is evolutionary, we hopefully didn't need to be out early to establish the basic concept of the car. We wanted to allow ourselves as much time as possible to research it."

And the focus is very much on the season ahead for Christian: “Due to the limit on tyres available to the teams," he said. "There’s no point in burning up engine mileage and rubber on an RB5. We’d rather use the tyres for quality testing at the three tests that we have confirmed we’ll run at, starting with the first test in Jerez.”

On the day of the launch we’ll bring you pictures of the car, interviews with the drivers and the team’s management and ask them about their hopes for the season ahead. Oh and a whole load more…

So check back on Wednesday, February 10.



#150 Hippo

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 22:31

What do you think about the rule of leaving the "fastest Q-lap tire" on the car for the start? Chance or doom for us? There were a couple of times when Mark and Seb did remarkably good on hards in Q3 in 09. Often in Q2 too, but now direct competitors might not hesitate to use softer compound in Q2 anymore. And then there was Seb in Monaco starting on softs, which was an awful decision. Ignoring what you think of that rule in general, how do you think it's going to work for us?