Who is this?
Posted 05 November 2000 - 19:28
Posted 05 November 2000 - 20:01
I agree with your e-mail friend. It appears to me that the driver is wearing lipstick.
Posted 05 November 2000 - 21:14
Posted 05 November 2000 - 22:20
Still looks like Masten to me...........................
Posted 05 November 2000 - 22:31
Posted 05 November 2000 - 22:35
That picture appers in Jenkinson's Directory of Historic Racing Cars captioned "Lightweight 'Picolo' 250F, 2534 with Masten Gregory at the wheel in practice for the 1958 Italian Grand Prix at Monza."
What will Joe Fan make of this?
Posted 05 November 2000 - 22:40
I couldn't begin to tell you what I get up to with my students, but rest assured, they would never allow it on television !
Only joking, Mr. Blunkett !!!
Posted 06 November 2000 - 05:48
Posted 06 November 2000 - 06:56
Posted 06 November 2000 - 07:44
Posted 06 November 2000 - 15:57
Posted 06 November 2000 - 19:28
Posted 06 November 2000 - 20:10
It looks like the car in Barry's original picture to me.
I looked at the picture Hans refers to. The car in the foreground is Maria's and doesn't have a strip. The car in the background does, and carries Masten's racing number.
Maria is better looking than Masten though.
Posted 06 November 2000 - 20:23
Posted 06 November 2000 - 20:36
Perhaps the disparity in detail is a function of photographing high-speed objects, or varied subject angles, but my gut feeling is that these are two different cars.
Posted 06 November 2000 - 22:21
There's an interesting supplementary question about Gregory in this race. As Alessandro says,he drove a very fine race, challenging Hawthorn for the lead. On the 47th lap, he stopped for new tyres, and was too exhausted to continue, not having fully recovered from an accident at Silverstone. Shelby took over and drove to finish fourth. According to Motor Sport, they were diqualified because Shelby had started the race on a Centro Sud car (this was a Buell entry). Paul Sheldon also says that they were disqualified.
Actually Motor sport says that they were disqualified on a "paperwork" infringement of the rules, but lists them as 4th "from a historical, sporting and technical angle". Typically DSJ!
However, Autosport, which in its race report said that they had been disqualified, said a week later, that Buell had successfully appealed. This was on the grounds thaa Shelby had been originally entered by Buell and only switched to Centro Sud during practice. On these grounds, says autosport, they were reinstated in 4th place, but not eligible for championship points because of the change of driver. apparantly it made a difference of about £150 in the prize money.
Posted 06 November 2000 - 22:26
Thanks for all the comments chaps. I'm now more convinced than ever, the first picture IS Masten.
BTW, if you missed it, Maria's picture is now there.[p][Edited by Barry Boor on 11-06-2000]
Posted 07 November 2000 - 02:49
It is one of the Temple Buell 'Piccolo' entries for the race, telaio '2532' but recorded as '2533' and ditto and the switch for Shelby as well. Indeed, this is the car used for his last GP event, the GP de l'ACF back in July...
See, this is never easy....
'2532 only ran one race as '2532' and this was also the telaio that Bob Drake drove at Riverside -- contrary to popular belief it was '2532' and not '2529' as most have assumed. Thanks to Barrie Hobkirk for setting me straight on all of this. Until he led me in that direction, I did not realize that the plates had been switched on '2532' and '2533.'
Posted 07 November 2000 - 08:19
Originally posted by Roger Clark
The few pictures I have seen of Miss de Filippis, she wore a light coloured crash helmet.....
All the photos (black and white)I have seen of Maria de Filippis show her wearing a helmet with absolutely no pattern, and certainly not white - although not as 'dark' as black. That is, until I saw Barrys posted picture.
The photo of de Filippis at Monza shows her wearing a white helmet. It appears to have the same chequered pattern as Jean Behra used to wear, and indeed could well be Behra's. They were fairly close friends, and 'Jeannot' became de Filippis' driving instructor/coach after the death of her boyfriend, Luigi Musso.
Behra originally gave Maria the driving duties of his Behra-Porsche F2 car, before reverting to sharing the driving duties. Of course, Behra was killed in this car at the German GP meeting at Avus in 1959. I believe that his death was the catalyst for Maria to retire from racing.
Posted 07 November 2000 - 08:35
Also, what was the deal with the paint schemes at Scuderia Central Sud? In 1957, Masten started off driving a red Maserati 250F at Monaco and then after this race, they painted it in American colors (white with a blue stripe down the middle of the car) for him. The white car with the blue stripe was an American paint scheme. Don't know where it first started but I have seen this paint scheme on Briggs Cunningham's cars at Le Mans in the early 50's as well as one of Masten's first Ferraris he raced over in Europe in 1954. Why were the 1958 cars blue with a white stripe? [p][Edited by Joe Fan on 11-07-2000]
Posted 07 November 2000 - 13:23
refresh some of my memories. I am glad that there is no doubt left among
you that it is Masten in the picture.
I wish to add a few comments regarding the various facts brought up in the
- I have a photo portrait (pretty much like a graduation yearbook photo) of a youthful Masten where the light has
the effect of showing him with big dark eyebrows and long but thin dark
eyelashes under the horn-rimmed spectacles giving pretty much the
impression of a natural mascara makeup. Lips are thin and look also very
dark. There is no undefinite particular in Masten's face.
- Some facts that substantiate my memory about Masten's drive in Monza
1958. (I think this will please Joe Fan). Masten qualified 11th and
started on the outside of the third row shared with the three works
BRMs. Though 4" slower than pole position man Stirling Moss, he was
only one second slower than Behra's and Schell's BRMs and a only a
fraction slower than his friend Bonnier's one. You have to take into
account that his 250F Piccolo had been built in a factory in total
disarray that could not ensure the proper development of the car and
that the old 6cyl engine did not adjust itself very well to the new
aviation fuel. By lap 20 (out of 70) Masten was already 4th (always
closely followed by Trintignant's Walker Cooper as in the beautiful
Curva Ascari picture that is posted). He was passed by Phil Hill's
Ferrari who was charging back after an early mistake, but found
himself third, behind Hawthorn and Hill, when Lewis Evans and Behra
retired by half race. He was briefly in front of Hawthorn for
second and he stopped to hand the car over to Shelby when Hill had
also to stop to change tyres. A much slower Shelby restarted in
second position but could not resist to the return of Brooks and
Hill and he cruised home in fourth losing one lap in the process.
- It is an article of faith that the last 250F's competitive
appearence was in Fangio's hands in the earlier Frech GP.
Actually Fangio came in fourth after a race of attrition, while in this
race Gregory hiked himself up to fight with Hawthorn (in truth Mike
was driving with a burned clutch but still Gregory was very fast before
getting too tired to continue). Also other 250Fs distinguished themselves
in this race: Giulio Cabianca was running steadily fifth and closing to
Shelby when he had to retire towards the end of the race. His
position was taken by graceful Maria Teresa who, though 15" a lap slower
than faster cars, was running in front of Coopers and Lotuses
before a piston broke at lap 58. The Curva Ascari picture
shows also Graham Hill in his mini-Vanwall Lotus 16. He was
overtaken by Maria Teresa around half-race.
- About Maria Teresa de Filippis and Luigi Musso. The fact that
Maria Teresa was Musso's girlfriend pops out repeatedly; I
strongly doubt about this both by my recollections and by what I can (not)
find in the Italian press of the time. Maria Teresa was certainly
helped by him in her racing career: in a very princely fashion
she wanted to be advised only by the best and, as it is said, later
Behra took the role. Musso had an estranged wife, many
girlfriends and an official one: Fiamma Breschi. She later
became a Enzo Ferrari's protegée: he would trust her judgement
so much to send her to races around the world to scout for
young pilots. In a 1985 interview she tells a story that I find
very much giving the idea of how Ferrari was. When Musso's wife
called him on the Monday after Reims he answered:"I do not know
you, Signora. Luigi's wife's name is Fiamma and she is in Reims
at present". She wrote a book of memories last year, but I was
told that it is too much on the bedroom side of the stories, so
I did not bring myself to buy it (yet).
- For sake of precision de Filippis was not
driving a Centro Sud car in Monza 1958. As further evidence the Centro Sud
logo with the small chequered flag is not visible on her car.
- The Centro Sud extravagant colors. After Monaco 1957 , when it was
red, Gregory's car was rebodied (in 1956/57 fashion) and painted
white with a blue stripe at the bottom and along the axis of the
car. Bonnier's sister car the same season was painted silver (!) with a
yellow stripe between two smaller blue ones along the axis of the car.
When Herrmann had this car, it was painted solid white. Shelby's car in
1958 was painted blue with two smaller white stripes on the bonnet and
blue number on a white disk. And so on... (see question below)
-Questions - I could not find an organized story about CentroSud
in Italian. Any reference in English?
I was never able to see a photograph of Troy Ruttman driving a
CentroSud 250F in Reims 1958. Which color was the car?
Posted 07 November 2000 - 14:59
Alessandro is quite correct to point out that the GP d'Italia for 1958 saw the 250F's do anything but roll over and die. The Buell team put on a great demonstration of just how much potential the latest 250F had. However, the engine never did take particularly well to AvGas.
Also, the level of of confusion, the on/off construction of the cars, and the general sense of wait-and-see that dominated the Maserati firm during 1958 certainly had an impact on the cars. Plus, the cars had to be built entirely using private funds since part of the conditions laid down during the financial restructuring precluded racing -- at least for a period. When the production of racing machinery was once again permited, it was sports cars for customers.
The Monza circuit in 1958 saw the last hurrah for the 250F. Gregory drove an excellent race. One wonders what could have happened had Gregory not been suffering the after-effects of his accident. It must have been a very difficult decision to turn the car over to Shelby, but from my understanding Gregory was absolutely worn out. Again, had he been healthy....
Maria Teresa de Filippis was certainly also doing quite well that day. Please not that -- unlike most -- do not have her entered by Centro Sud at Monza. Indeed, all of de Filippis' entries were in her name. I also agree that while Musso did assist her with contacts and so forth, that was probably about the extent of the relationship. By the way, she was in telaio '2501' which was using the number '2523' while she used it. In Portugal, she drove '2519.'
Troy Ruttman drive '2511' at Reims. Somewhere -- I'll have to look around -- there is a picture of Ruttman in the Centro Sud car. And, as for Centro Sud, there is precious little on it in English. I have lots of bits and pieces about Centro Sud here and there, the driving school, the efforts of Dei to field competitive teams while also developing talent and so on. It was a great effort by a sportsman and seems to have been dropped by the wayside as a topic for special interest.
Posted 07 November 2000 - 16:59
More on Mimmo Dei and his Centro Sud squad is to be found in the story that is part of the January '99 issue. It's connected to Bandini's BRM entry (the Old Faithful painted red!) for the 1963 British GP. It was early days for 8W so the information provided is certainly not of today's standard, but at least it's in English and it's organized...
I agree with Don that a proper Centro Sud story needs to be written soon (in hindsight our petty work on Signor Dei's outfit may be too demeaning to his brave efforts) and hopefully in a way that is respecting of his stamina and will to give so many drivers the break they deserved.
Oh, and I just realized that the Gregory picture that started this thread was on our site all along... It was supplied by Don as a part of his 8W Special on the 250F!
Posted 07 November 2000 - 22:55