97 replies to this topic

[Hyatt]

http://cgi.ebay.de/w...em=150386832229

"The car is in condition as in the 1994 Formula One season with paddle shift and traction control. The car is in racing condition, with the painting and sponsoring scheme as in 1994."

now we know it

[highdownforce]

http://cgi.ebay.de/w...em=150386832229

"The car is in condition as in the 1994 Formula One season with paddle shift and traction control. The car is in racing condition, with the painting and sponsoring scheme as in 1994."

now we know it

Should we buy it just to investigate if it was used?

[Mandzipop]

I'm going to keep an eye on this one. The record is $10 million. Its currently at $2.6 million.

Unfortunately its slightly out of my price range.

[Frans]

Oh damn, someone beat me to it to create this thread ......

Oh well, you see. The truth comes out after all. Schumacher's 1994 title is worth NOTHING.

And like the Piquet conspiracy only a few knew about it in the team and one of them was also Jos Verstappen. He mentioned it once as well in an interview, but this interview dissapeared of course.


Schumacher won the title as the only driver with traction control in 1994? Yes!

It's a big fat dUh for all the disbelievers!

[fastlegs]

I'm surprised that Michael doesn't have this car in his own private collection.

[highdownforce]

I'm surprised that Michael doesn't have this car in his own private collection.

It doesn't mean that he doesn't have one just like this.

[RedBaron]

Oh well, you see. The truth comes out after all. Schumacher's 1994 title is worth NOTHING.

Yeh because they'd sell it and not remove any illegal device they have have installed (assuming merely to humour you that anything was installed)

[Lazarus II]

I about had to replace my laptop screen with the "traction control" line.

[craftverk]

Oh well, you see. The truth comes out after all. Schumacher's 1994 title is worth NOTHING.

1995 must've been painful

[jcbc3]

http://cgi.ebay.de/w...em=150386832229

"The car is in condition as in the 1994 Formula One season with paddle shift and traction control. The car is in racing condition, with the painting and sponsoring scheme as in 1994."

now we know it

errrhhh, we knew already.

It is a FACT (that word again ;) ) that traction control software was found in the sub-sub menu on the ECU. The reason Benetton wasn't disqualified was that FIA couldn't prove it was ever used. My own opinion is that it was of course and that under any other regime at the FIA they would have been out on their collective arses.

Edited by jcbc3, 10 November 2009 - 17:12.

[FlashMaster]

Oh well, you see. The truth comes out after all. Schumacher's 1994 title is worth NOTHING.

I have to agree with you. Verstappen's three WDC are more worth than Michael's seven BY FAR

[Lazarus II]

errrhhh, we knew already.

It is a FACT (that word again ;) ) that traction control software was found in the sub-sub menu on the ECU. The reason Benetton wasn't disqualified was that FIA couldn't prove it was ever used. My own opinion is that it was of course and that under any other regime at the FIA they would have been out on their collective arses.

The FIA didn't have to prove that it was used. That it was on the car at all was grounds for disqualification...just ask BAR Honda. 1994 was a bad year and Bernie could not afford to have his newest cash-cow drug through the collective mud with a cheating scandal.

[Frans]

I think Michael still has to apologize to the Formula One and the F1 fans for this.

[se7en_24]

Yeh because they'd sell it and not remove any illegal device they have have installed (assuming merely to humour you that anything was installed)

It was reported and admitted by the team at the time that the car had traction control built in, but it 'was never used'.

Edited by se7en_24, 10 November 2009 - 17:27.

[potmotr]

Well that steering wheel isn't genuine is it?

I'm sure the original B194 wheel was round.

[Zarathustra]

Well that steering wheel isn't genuine is it?

I'm sure the original B194 wheel was round.

Like this one - http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item5883e9d365

[umapathypon]

It was reported and admitted by the team at the time that the car had traction control built in, but it 'was never used'.

LC , not TC.

[umapathypon]

errrhhh, we knew already.

It is a FACT (that word again ;) ) that traction control software was found in the sub-sub menu on the ECU. The reason Benetton wasn't disqualified was that FIA couldn't prove it was ever used. My own opinion is that it was of course and that under any other regime at the FIA they would have been out on their collective arses.

No. That is not the FACT. The sub-menu had LC, not TC.

[Mauseri]

http://cgi.ebay.de/w...em=150386832229

"The car is in condition as in the 1994 Formula One season with paddle shift and traction control. The car is in racing condition, with the painting and sponsoring scheme as in 1994."

now we know it

Is there any cars of the teammates being sold, to check that too? I don't buy the 1-sec-man myth.

[potmotr]

Like this one - http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item5883e9d365

Yeah, exactly, the one with the natty little Casio stopwatch stuck in the centre.

[jcbc3]

No. That is not the FACT. The sub-menu had LC, not TC.

If so, goes to show I should have sat on my fingers...

[Fabs]

I think Michael still has to apologize to the Formula One and the F1 fans for this.

One day he will write a book, just like Andre Agassi did.. and he will confirm it...

There was this rumour that Andre Agassi had been caught on anti doping and ATP never did anything about it... now Andre himself admits it.. and his loyal fans have to deal with it

Schumacher fans.. the truth will come out one day.. better be prepared

[craftverk]

One day he will write a book, just like Andre Agassi did.. and he will confirm it...

There was this rumour that Andre Agassi had been caught on anti doping and ATP never did anything about it... now Andre himself admits it.. and his loyal fans have to deal with it

Schumacher fans.. the truth will come out one day.. better be prepared

"I used launch control and we used a dodgy fuel filter in 1994, the year after (1995) the FIA made sure we had none of these things, and I still won the championship. Eat that haters"

[DOF_power]

This thing still goes on ?!

Schumacher beat crap out of Hill in 94 and 95, that's truth.

Hill was as driver was nowhere near Michael Schumacher, other then in some rare occasions, and Williams were really in crapper with regards to strategy, pit stops and stint racing setup.

[ArDeeEmm]

Schumacher fans.. the truth will come out one day.. better be prepared

I would be surprised if anything arose that undermined his position as one of the greatest, and perhaps the greatest, driver(s) of all time. Define that as you wish, but he's still up there.

[Lazarus II]

I don't think anyone truely doubts Michael Schumacher's talent. I do think people doubt Michael Schumacher's ability to use an illegally equipped car.

[BullHead]

Anyway the car's legality is nothing to the Adelaide incident.. it doesn't matter. Anyway that's OT sorry. Not sure about that car for sale though..... I hope someone else who would obviously know can verify it. I suppose the FiA scrutineers' passes....

[Raelene]

The FIA didn't have to prove that it was used. That it was on the car at all was grounds for disqualification...just ask BAR Honda. 1994 was a bad year and Bernie could not afford to have his newest cash-cow drug through the collective mud with a cheating scandal.

Not true...in fact Williams used TC in testing that year - there is a quote from DC on Autosport

[Orin]

The FIA didn't have to prove that it was used. That it was on the car at all was grounds for disqualification...just ask BAR Honda. 1994 was a bad year and Bernie could not afford to have his newest cash-cow drug through the collective mud with a cheating scandal.

This seems a somewhat forlorn attempt to use logic when discussing FIA judgements, which always begin with "how do we want to punish them" and work backwards from there.

[Orin]

Not true...in fact Williams used TC in testing that year - there is a quote from DC on Autosport

Was it on the car during races?

[Orin]

This thing still goes on ?!

Schumacher beat crap out of Hill in 94 and 95, that's truth.

Hill was as driver was nowhere near Michael Schumacher, other then in some rare occasions, and Williams were really in crapper with regards to strategy, pit stops and stint racing setup.

What a pathetic attempt to justify cheating. The WDC has never been awarded to someone because they were the best, but because they scored highest with the equipment at their disposal.

[DePortago]

THANKS TAD!!!

[One]

So what is the set price for? Keeping the secret of Schuei's illegal title?



Oh well, Max is now gone so no one will take this sells claim serious..

Just imagine Todt taking up the case and forced to declare the championship invalid...


THANX HYATT!!!!!

Edited by One, 10 November 2009 - 20:53.

[Exar Kun]

Is this the same car?

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=112946

[Zarathustra]

Is this the same car?

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=112946

If so it's appreciated a lot in that time

[BullHead]

Is this the same car?

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=112946

Good work that man. It's got the right steering wheel on it there.

[Rob]

"I used launch control and we used a dodgy fuel filter in 1994, the year after (1995) the FIA made sure we had none of these things, and I still won the championship. Eat that haters"

So we should excuse the 1994 misdemeanours because he won the title in 1995 without the driver aids? I don't understand your logic.

[craftverk]

So we should excuse the 1994 misdemeanours because he won the title in 1995 without the driver aids? I don't understand your logic.

I would've expected Schumacher to not have won in 1995 if driver aids aided him the previous year

[Rob]

I would've expected Schumacher to not have won in 1995 if driver aids aided him the previous year

His talent is without doubt. Which is why he won in 1995. He might have also won 1994 without the driver aids. But the fact is that they were used.

[Raelene]

Was it on the car during races?

not sure - but think it was, but do you think they would put it on for tessting, take it off for race, back on for testing...I'll see if I can dig out the quote

anyway, the Toyota comparison was silly - it was proven they used it... electronics - a bit harder to prove ;)Wasn't there another team that year that had some codes found in their cars as well?

Edited by Raelene, 10 November 2009 - 22:51.

[Raelene]

His talent is without doubt. Which is why he won in 1995. He might have also won 1994 without the driver aids. But the fact is that they were used.

Realloy - I thought the only FACT was they couldn't prove one way or the other...

[FlatOverCrest]

I have sent them all my credentials that they requested for serious buyers...and in return my own condition to bid.... namely that I am permitted a test drive! Upon completion of which I will tell them if I am interested or not...

[Melbourne Park]

Unless Schumacher developed that TC or LC himself, then people shouldn't blame him for it. Fact is that drivers do what they are told to do, especially with in car technology, or they get the bullet. Especially young drivers. Cheating - or pushing the rules - has been part of F1 for ever. To pull out one instance means nothing IMO.

The car is terrific, although I too thought the wheel is wrong. I wonder how many chassis they made that MS used that season?

Edited by Melbourne Park, 10 November 2009 - 23:48.

[Mandzipop]

I still reckon it would be quicker to walk to Sainbury's (even with a broken foot).

Normally on foot it takes 6 minutes but a car takes 9 minutes, however the car has to park up, ok thats just put that one out of the window, mind if it isn't Schumachers parking abilities. Never mind. There are loads of traffic lights.

Perfect Top Gear challenge. Can the Hamster walk to Sainsbury's from my house quicker than an F1 car (driven by Schumacher who has to also park it)?

Who would get to the shopping part first?

[Jimisgod]

errrhhh, we knew already.

It is a FACT (that word again ;) ) that traction control software was found in the sub-sub menu on the ECU. The reason Benetton wasn't disqualified was that FIA couldn't prove it was ever used. My own opinion is that it was of course and that under any other regime at the FIA they would have been out on their collective arses.

Shouldn't it read traction control - mint condition, never used then?

[ensign14]

Realloy - I thought the only FACT was they couldn't prove one way or the other...

That is in itself open to debate...

[Little Leaf]

It was reported and admitted by the team at the time that the car had traction control built in, but it 'was never used'.

Who said it wasn't used, those 2 bastions of honesty themselves, Symonds and Briatore

[Chezrome]

One question. Was it LAUNCH CONTROLL which was discovered by the FIA, or TRACTION CONTROLL? Because LC is only effective at the start or driving away in the pits, and I can't remember that Schumacher won the 1994 world championship because of his blistering starts...

By the way, Jos Verstappen also said in interviews that he thought that Michaels car was imcompareable with his own car but also undriveable.

[Frans]

Yeah, as long as secret "option 13" wasn't set to ON (which was activatable by a series of paddle-shifts in a certain way, option 13 was not visible in the option list, but was there, it was traction control.) , without it, the car would not be driveable. (ask Verstappen, Letho, Herbert, Alesi, Berger, etc)

LC was simply TC used at the starts.... LC was a certain TC setting, what would setup during the warmup lap, and dissapear out of the software after the car did his 1st lap of the race.

And of course we still can take Briatore's word for it, that they didn't used it .... Hahahahaha, F1's most reliable honnest man , isn't?

[Oho]

The reason Benetton wasn't disqualified was that FIA couldn't prove it was ever used.

Actually that's the excuse but technical regulations really are not subject to use or advantage gained. The fact that the code was compiled and executable was grounds enough, but FIA did not penalize them because they did not want to. Really, "the not used" argument was the way for a will. This reasoning should allow use of turbos with twin routing and have the car configured to use the legal plumbing when ever inspected.