32 replies to this topic

[Boniver]

From 1905 to 1911 (and later ?) was the Herkomerkonkurrenz , later Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt the most important race in Germany, (and the Kaiserpreis of 1907), in the race of 1905 start Dufour, Pöge, Edge, Veith, in 1906 start Lancia with Fiat, , but the history of the motor racing forget always this race (write through English and French who have no intresse from Mercedes, Benz, Adler, Germain, Opel, Daimler, Deutz, Horch, AF,……race cars ?)

Who have more info from the race of 1910,1911,19 ? ?
and why forget every one this race

11 aug > 17 aug 1905 – I. Herkomerkonkurrenz (Dt)
1. Edgar Ladenburg – Mercedes

5 juni > 13 juni 1906 - II. Herkomerkonkurrenz (Dt)
1. Dr. Rudolff Stöss - Horch

4 juni > 11 juni 1907 – III Herkomerkonkurrenz (Dt)
1. Fritz Erle – Benz


9 juni > 17 juni 1908 – I. Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. Fritz Erle – Benz

10 juni > 18 juni 1909 – II Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. Wilhelm Opel – Opel

? ? juni - ? ? juni 1910 – III Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. ? ? ? ? – Austro Daimler

? ? ? ? - ? ? ? ? 1911 – IV Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. ? ? ? ? - ? ? ? ?


after 1912 ? ? ? ? ?

[Marcor]

According to the book 100 ans de Sport Automobile Belge, a Belgian car, a Métalurgique, driven by Aschoff was second in the 1907 Herkomercup.

I maybe know more about those races but I'm not really sure, sorry.

[Hans Etzrodt]

The first of several Herkomer-Contests in 1906 was solely for touring cars. Each car had to have at least four seats, fenders, lights and a silenced exhaust system. The cars had to be privately owned and driven by the owner himself. Therefore the Herkomer-Contest was not a race comparable to the French GP, Vanderbilt Cup or Kaiserpreis, which were events for true racing cars of the highest order.

[Michael M]

Available as JPG-scan in GERMAN language only:

Herkomer-Konkurrenz 1906:
- full event regulations
- event report by entrant Hans Dominik
- comment about general achievements
- list of leftovers by participants at the various control points (quite amazing, incl. a lady’s corset!)

Herkomer-Fahrt 1906:
- Technical and sporting impressions
- Technical details about Herkomerfahrt and Kaiserpreisrennen

Prinz-Heinrich-Tourenfahrt 1908:
- Pre-event report
- Event report
- Final report
- Influence of regulations on engine construction
- Technical conclusions
- Piston speeds

Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt 1909:
- Full event regulations
- Pre-event report incl. route map
- Short event report and result table
- Detailed event report with some pictures

Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt 1910:
- Full event regulations
- Pre-event report incl. route map, entry list and photos
- Event report I
- Event report II

Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt 1911:
- Technical Consequences

In case of interest drop me an e-mail.

[Boniver]

Michael,

I have the Braunbeck's Sport Lexikon "Automobilismus"
Berlin 1910,

bur not entry list of 1910,

[Boniver]

Michael,

Thanks for the entry list of 1910



Entry list with :
Frankl –Benz
Fritz Opel – Opel
Erle – Benz
Ferdinand Porsche – Austro Daimler
Voight – Austro Daimler
Ettore Bugatti – Bugatti
Jenatzy – Mercedes
Pöge – Mercedes
Sailer – Dixi
etc..


so , stap by stap


? ? juni - ? ? juni 1910 – III Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. ? ? ? ? – Austro Daimler

? ? ? ? - ? ? ? ? 1911 – IV Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. ? ? ? ? - ? ? ? ?


after 1912 ? ? ? ? ?

[Hans Etzrodt]

The Prinz Heinrich-Fahrt was an international reliability drive for touring cars and was not a race.
Result of the Prinz Heinrich-Tourenfahrt 1908

• 1. Fritz Erle (Benz) 7.96 good points
• 2. Willy Pöge (Mercedes) 7.91
• 3. A. Paul, driver Paul Geller(Adler) 7.28
• 4. Ludwig Zimmern, driver B. v.Lengerke (Benz) 6.76
• 5. Carl Löhr (Adler) 6.51
• 6. Edgar Ladenburg (Benz) 6.38
• 7. August Horch (Horch) 5.83
• 8. Dr. Stöß (Horch) 5.68
• 9. W. Jochems (Mercedes) 5.53

Participants:
107 cars from Germany
11 cars from Belgium
9 from France
5 from Austria
5 from Italy
3 from Switzerland
1 from England


The start was on 9 June 1908 at 6:00 a.m. at the Tempelhof Field.
1st stage: Berlin-Stettin
2nd stage: Stettin-Kiel
3rd stage: Kiel-Hamburg
4th stage: Hamburg-Hannover
5th stage: Hannover-Cöln
6th stage: Cöln-Trier
7th stage: Trier-Frankfurt a.M.



Result of the Prinz Heinrich-Fahrt 1909

• 1. Wilhelm Opel (Opel) 20.76 good points
• 2. Willy Pöge, Fahrer A.Vischer (Mercedes) 20.13
• 3. Chr. Kittsteiner (Opel) 19.78
• 4. Forchheimer (Benz) 18.61
• 5. Ernst Sachs (Opel) 18.56
• 6. L. M. Opel (Opel) 17.96
• 7. Alexander Count Kolowrat (Laurin-Klement) 17.64
• 8. F. Wandesleben (Adler) 17.56
• 9. Adam Paul (Adler) 17.08

[p][Edited by Hans Etzrodt on 11-11-2000]

[Michael M]

Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt 1910:
2 – 8 June
1. Prof. Ferdinand Porsche – Austro-Daimler – 20.90 points
2. Eduard Fischer – Austro-Daimler – 20.51 points
3. Fritz Hamburger (owner) / Count Heinrich Schoenfeld (driver) – Austro-Daimler – 19.59 points
4. Herbert Ephraim – Opel – 18.96 points
5. Fritz Erle – Benz – 18.56 points
6. Adam Paul (owner) / Hugo Wilhelm (driver) – Adler – 17.92 points
7. Count Geza Andrassy (owner) – Th. Pilette (driver) – Mercedes – 17.88 points
8. Arthur Henney – Benz – 17.79 points
9. Georg Günther – Presto – 17.71 points
10. Edward Forchheimer (owner) / Dr. Kiefer (driver) – Benz – 17.66 points
11. Carl Neumaier – Benz – 17.52 points
12. Siegfried Count Wimpffen – Austro-Daimler – 17.40 points
13. Ernst Schoemperlen – Gaggenau – 17.17 points
Winner special stage Genthin: E. Fischer
Winner special stage Colmar: Prof. Porsche

Unfortunately I have no details for 1911 and 1912.

[Boniver]

Michael,

enormous Thanks

Hans,

Tanks :

With the rennen in the « Forstenrieder Park », and the « Bergrennen auf den Kesselberg » was the Herkomerkonkurrenze /Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrten a real race, and if you see the photos of this race , you see the same race cars and racing of all the races from before 1910.

OK there was the GP of ACF in 1906 , 1907 and 1908 , but anyting else,

the Herkomerkonkurrenze/Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrten was on the same level then the
France trial racing
The Italian Targo Floria
The Gorden Bennett Trail
The Copa Catalunga in Spain
The voiturette racing in Boulogne, Normandie, Ostende
The Tour Trophy in GB
Vanderbilt Cup with stock chassis ,

Was « the Chequered Flag – 100 years of Motor Racing » write through a German, the Herkomerkonkurrenze / Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrten, was the importants race before 1910, and nobody so speak over the Targo Floria or the Tour Trophy.

The Herkomerkonkurrenze / Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrten, was for German sport Automobile with Mercedes, Benz, Daimler and Opel; so much important then the Targo Floria was for Italian with Fiat, Itala and Spa.

[Boniver]

In 1911 only a tour for Germany to England and Ireland,
in co-operation with the King of England, no race.

In 1912 no more organizer

[Toine]

Hi Boniver

My dad has a trophy from that race at his place. It's a bronze statue of a man with a bow. I going to take a picture with my digital camera and post it.
Is it a really rare trophy?

Thank you

Toine, Theodore Pilette is my great grand father.

[Vitesse2]

A few random bits of information from British sources ()

Austro-Daimler: 1909 team cars were 6.5 litre chain-drive, driven by Porsche, Fischer and Boos-Waldeck.

1910 team cars were designed by Porsche: 5.7 litre ohc five-bearing four-cylinder engine. Bodywork was tulip-shaped, by Neumann-Neander, designed to circumvent the regulations. Designed to do 142km/h (88mph) running at 86bhp.

Benz: 1908 cars were 6.6 litre (Erle's car 7.5 litres) - developed 100bhp

1910: Benz streamliners were 7271cc. Won timed sprint part of trials - 138.08km/h (Austro-Daimler 128.75km/h)

Vauxhall: after the 1910 trial a number of Vauxhall models based on the cars entered that year were named "Prince Henry"

[gerrit stevens]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
The Prinz Heinrich-Fahrt was an international reliability drive for touring cars and was not a race.
Result of the Prinz Heinrich-Tourenfahrt 1908

• 1. Fritz Erle (Benz) 7.96 good points
• 2. Willy Pöge (Mercedes) 7.91
• 3. A. Paul, driver Paul Geller(Adler) 7.28
• 4. Ludwig Zimmern, driver B. v.Lengerke (Benz) 6.76 Bruno von Lengerke
• 5. Carl Löhr (Adler) 6.51
• 6. Edgar Ladenburg (Benz) 6.38
• 7. August Horch (Horch) 5.83
• 8. Dr. Stöß (Horch) 5.68 Dr. Rudolf Stöss
• 9. W. Jochems (Mercedes) 5.53

10. Bernhard Flinsch (Mercedes)

Special contests
Schnelligkeitsrnnen von Itzehoe
1 Fritz Erle Benz 4.42,8
2 Willy Pöge Mercedes 4.24,8 sic?
3 Paul Geller Adler 5.07,2

Kesselberg rennen
1 Fritz Erle Benz 4.27,2
2 Willy Pöge Mercedes 5.15,6
3 Paul Geller Adler 5.56,6

Sonderpreise
1 Paul Geller Adler
2 Willy Pöge Mercedes




Result of the Prinz Heinrich-Fahrt 1909

• 1. Wilhelm Opel (Opel) 20.76 good points
• 2. Willy Pöge, Fahrer A.Vischer (Mercedes) 20.13
• 3. Chr. Kittsteiner (Opel) 19.78
• 4. Forchheimer (Benz) 18.61 Edward Forchheimer
• 5. Ernst Sachs (Opel) 18.56
• 6. L. M. Opel (Opel) 17.96 Ludwig M. Opel
• 7. Alexander Count Kolowrat (Laurin-Klement) 17.64
• 8. F. Wandesleben (Adler) 17.56
• 9. Adam Paul (Adler) 17.08

[p][Edited by Hans Etzrodt on 11-11-2000]

9 687 Erich Grüning Adler
10 627 Willy D. Jessurun Opel
11 650 Franz Heine Adler
12 688 Hugo Remy Adler


special events and other data


June 10: Berlin-Breslau 377,8
1. Schnelligkeitsprüfung Guben-Krossen
June 11: Breslau-Tatra Lomnicz 395
June 12: Tatra Lomnicz-Budapest 312
June 14: Budapest-Wien 313,9
June 15: Wien-Salzburg 330,3
June 16: Salzburg-München 253,3
2. Schnelligkeitsprüfung Forstenrieder Park

1. Schnelligkeitsprüfung Guben-Krossen
1 Wilhelm Opel Opel 3.39,8
2 Alexander Graf Kolowrat Laurin & Klement 3.10,4 sic?
3 Willy Pöge Mercedes 3.06,0 sic?

2. Schnelligkeitsprüfung Forstenrieder Park
1 Wilhelm Opel Opel 3.49,8
2 Karl Kittsteiner Benz 3.50,4
3 Willy Pöge Mercedes 3.10,6 sic?

Sonderpreise
1 F. Paulmann Horch
2 Eduard Fischer Oestr. Daimler
3 Hans Niebel Benz
4 O.E. Lindpaintner Opel

Gerrit Stevens

[gerrit stevens]

Originally posted by Boniver
From 1905 to 1911 (and later ?) was the Herkomerkonkurrenz , later Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt the most important race in Germany, (and the Kaiserpreis of 1907), in the race of 1905 start Dufour, Pöge, Edge, Veith, in 1906 start Lancia with Fiat, , but the history of the motor racing forget always this race (write through English and French who have no intresse from Mercedes, Benz, Adler, Germain, Opel, Daimler, Deutz, Horch, AF,……race cars ?)

Who have more info from the race of 1910,1911,19 ? ?
and why forget every one this race

11 aug > 17 aug 1905 – I. Herkomerkonkurrenz (Dt)
1. Edgar Ladenburg – Mercedes

5 juni > 13 juni 1906 - II. Herkomerkonkurrenz (Dt)
1. Dr. Rudolff Stöss - Horch

4 juni > 11 juni 1907 – III Herkomerkonkurrenz (Dt)
1. Fritz Erle – Benz


9 juni > 17 juni 1908 – I. Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. Fritz Erle – Benz

10 juni > 18 juni 1909 – II Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. Wilhelm Opel – Opel

? ? juni - ? ? juni 1910 – III Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. ? ? ? ? – Austro Daimler

? ? ? ? - ? ? ? ? 1911 – IV Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt
1. ? ? ? ? - ? ? ? ?


after 1912 ? ? ? ? ?

Herkomer Konkurrenz
11-16 August 1905, München- Baden Baden – Nürnberg – München, 937,1 km

Results

 1  12 Edgar Ladenburg			  Mercedes 40 hp

 2  27 Hermann Weingard			 Mercedes 40 hp

 3   3 Willy Pöge				   Mercedes 60 hp

 4  36 Fritz Opel				   Opel 35 hp

 5  30 Fritz Werner				 Clément-Bayard 35/45 hp

 6  24 Hynek Ruzìcska			   Mercedes 40 hp

 7  15 Max Wild					 Mercedes 28/52 hp

 8  26 Julius Turck				 Benz 40 hp

 9  59 Alfred Teves				 Adler 24 hp

10  72 Carl Löhr					Adler 24 hp

11  14 Bernhard Flinsch			 Mercedes 40 hp

12  23 Eduard Scharrer			  Benz 40 hp

13 57a Graf Wilhelm Arco			Mercedes 24/28 hp

14  71 Arch Heres				  Adler 24 hp

15  75 Anton Baur				   Clément-Bayard 24 hp





Kesselbergrennen (7 km, August 12)

  1 Willy Pöge				Mercedes	  6.37,4

  2 Fritz Werner			  Mercedes	  7.29,0

  3 Willy Tischbein		   Mercedes	  7.39,0



Forstenrieder Park Rennen (6 km, August 13) 

  1 Willy Pöge				Mercedes	  4.12,6

  2 Willy Tischbein		   Mercedes	  4.43,6

  3 Fritz Werner			  Mercedes	  5.00,4

  

N.B.

1) Touringcar race, named after Professor Hubert von Herkomer.

2) Source: Braunbeck's Sportlexikon pp. 248-255.

3) 105 contestants, 26 finishers recorded

4) Program

   August 11: exposition of the cars in Beissbarth Automobil Halle, München

   August 12: Kesselbergrennen

   August 13: Forstenriederpark Rennrn

   August 14: München-Bruck-Augsburg-Ulm-Tübingen-Baden Baden (371,8 km)

   August 15: Baden-Stuttgart-Rothenburg-Nürnberg (330,4 km)

   August 16: Nürnberg-Regensburg-München (234,9 km)

   August 17: Corso in München.

Herkomer Konkurrenz
5-12 June 1906, Frankfurt am Main-München-Linz-Wien-Klagenfurt-Innsbruck-München
1647,1 km

Results

 1 155 Dr. Rudolf Stöss		  Horch 18-20ps

 2  78 Fritz Erle				Benz 40ps	  owner: Emil Neumaier

 3  18 Willy Pöge				Mercedes 60ps

 4 141 Heinrich Opel			 Opel 22ps

 5  93 Carl Neumaier			 Benz 40ps

 6  19 Hermann Weingand		  Mercedes 70ps

 7  84 Theodor Dreher			Mercedes 90ps  

 8  24 Bruno von Lengerke		Mercedes 70ps  owner: Edgar Ladenberg

 9 144 G.H. Wilhelm Uren		 Priamus 20ps

10 102 August Horch			  Horch 40ps

11  39 A.D. Grigg				Engl. Daimler



Notes:

1) Touringcar race, named after Professor Hubert von Herkomer.

2) Source: Braunbeck's Sportlexikon pp. 256-261.

3) 155 entries, 19 did not start, 98 finishers.

4) Program:

	June  5: expostion of the cars 

	June  6: Frankfurt am Main-München	403,1 

	June  7: München-Linz				 269,5

	June  8: Linz-Wien					185

	June  9: day of rest

	June 10: Wien-Klagenfurt			  308,1 

			 Speedcontest Semmering Bergrennen

	June 11: Klagenfurt-Innsbruck		 331   

	June 12: Innsbruck-München			150

			 Forstenrieder Parkrennen

	June 13: Prize ceremony

5) Forstenrieder Park speed race:

	 1 Dr. Rudolf Stöss	  Horch)			4.34,0

	 2 Carl Westphal		 Germain Standard  4.46,0

	 3 Georg Betzin		  Horch			 5.06,0



   Semmering Hill climb: Willy Pöge (Mercedes)

	 1 Willy Pöge			Mercedes		  8.46,0

	 2 Fritz Erle			Benz			 10.12,6

	 3 Carl Neumaier		 Benz			 10.44,0



   Beauty contest

	 1 Wolfram Eschebach	 Benz

	 2 Friedrich Wandesleben Adler

	 3 Fritz Vogler		  Adler

	 4 Joe Livingston		Adler



   Sonderpreis

	 Miss Maud Manville	  Engl. Daimler

Herkomer Konkurrenz
4-13 June 1907, Dresden-Eisenach-Mannheim-Lindau-München-Augsburg-Frankfurt am Main, 1818,7 km

Results

 1   9 Fritz Erle				Benz (owner: Edgar ladenberg)  

 2 169 Hans Aschoff			  Métallurgique

 3  21 Heinrich Opel			 Opel

 4  35 Bruno von Lengerke		Mercedes

 5  92 Carl Neumaier			 Benz

 6 152 August Schmierer		  Adler

 7 109 Richard Benz			  Benz

 8  22 Fritz Dahmen			  Opel

 9 106 Julius Otto Mandl		 Benz

10 119 August Horch			  Horch

11 187 Alfred Kathe			  Horch

12 159 Erich Grüning			 Adler

13  18 Pfauz					 Benz

14  44 Miss Dorothee Levitt	  Napier

15  98 Wilhelm Opel			  Opel

16  19 Edgar Ladenburg		   Benz

17 170 K. von Ohlendorff		 Germain

18 189 Dr. Rudolf Stöss		  Horch

19  36 Hermann Weingand		  Mercedes

20 151 Alfred Calmon			 Adler



Notes:

 1. Touringcar race, named after Professor Hubert von Herkomer.

 2. Source: Braunbeck’s Sportlexikon pp. 262/265

 3. 189 entries, 28 did not start, 109 finished.

 4. Program

	  June  4: exposition of the cars

	  June  5: Dresden-Eisenach			359

	  June  6: Eisenach-Mannheim		   337

	  June  7: Mannheim-Lindau			 358,3

	  June  8: Lindau-München			  221,9

			   Forstenrieder Parkrennen 

	  June  9: day of rest

	  June 10: München-Augsburg			221,1

			   Kesselbergrennen

	  June 11: Augsburg-Frankfurt am Main. 321,4

	  Jnue 13: price ceremomny

 5. Forstenrieder Parkrennen

	 1 Hermann Weingand		Mercedes	  

	 2 Edgar Ladenburg		 Benz

	 3 Heinrich Opel			Opel

 

	Kesselberg rennen

	 1 Hans Aschoff		   Métallurgique

	 2 Rittmester D. Spitzner Benz

	 3 Gustav Schürmann	   Dixi



	Schönheitskonkurrenz

	 1 EF Gütschow	 Mercedes

	 2 von Baruch	 Gobron-Brillié

	 3 Hermann Otto Mühlberg  Bens

	 4 Paul Lehmann	Itala

I have no data from 1911.
Was it ever held.

Braunbeck says on p. 269, "Der Prinz Heinrich-Fahrt ist ein Wanderpreis für drei Jahre und geht in dessen Eigentum über, der zweimal gesiegt hat; tritt dieser Fall nicht ein, so entscheidet unter den drei Siegern das Los. 1910 findet also die letzte Konkurrenz um diesen Preis statt."

The cup is a challenge cup for three years and will be definetely owned by the one who would win it twice. Should this not be the cas than the draw will decide. So in 1910 the last competition for this pric will take place.

Gerrit Stevens

[Kvadrat]

Originally posted by Boniver
In 1911 only a tour for Germany to England and Ireland,
in co-operation with the King of England, no race.

In 1912 no more organizer

This page has picture from 1912. Mistake?

[Kvadrat]

In 1911 it was known as Prince Henry Cup.

Getty Images

Very Rare German 1911 'Prince Henry Cup' Competitors Medal

1911 Prince Henry Cup

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and the 1911 Prince Henry Cup

[Darren Galpin]

Not true - the Prinz Heinrich Fahrt translates into English as the Prince Henry Trial. The name in German didn't change, it's just that the British and American sources you quote use the term cup. Note though on the picture of the medal it uses "Prinz Heinrich Preis" and also uses the direct English translation. This doesn't mean that the race was called this though - it is the name of the award for the race?

[Nanni Dietrich]

According to contemporary newspapers available in the web, the 1910 edition of the Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt was marred by an accident that claimed the lives of two unnamed people.

On Tuesday 07 June 1910, during the stage towards Oberenzen, Alsace, Germany (now territory of France), the Adler #57 driven by Franz Heine of Hannover went off the road and rolled, involving several spectators, before ending into a tree.

It is not clear whether the car crashed as a consequence of a tyre broken or steering problems. Two passengers of the car were killed upon impact, the chauffeur and a controller. Franz Heine and one spectator were seriously injured in the crash.

According to different sources, the deceased persons were spectators involved in the accident, this has not yet been confirmed.

More informations?

[Darren Galpin]

The Journal de Geneve, 9th June 1910, pg 2 says that two passengers were killed and a spectator was gravely injured by debris from the crashed car. The Times from 8th June 1910 pg 7 says that it was the mechanic and umpire who were killed in the car.

[Hugo Boecker]

According to contemporary newspapers available in the web, the 1910 edition of the Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt was marred by an accident that claimed the lives of two unnamed people.

On Tuesday 07 June 1910, during the stage towards Oberenzen, Alsace, Germany (now territory of France), the Adler #57 driven by Franz Heine of Hannover went off the road and rolled, involving several spectators, before ending into a tree.

It is not clear whether the car crashed as a consequence of a tyre broken or steering problems. Two passengers of the car were killed upon impact, the chauffeur and a controller. Franz Heine and one spectator were seriously injured in the crash.

According to different sources, the deceased persons were spectators involved in the accident, this has not yet been confirmed.

More informations?

On June 7th 1910 the Freiburger Zeitung reports in their evening edition
In front of the Colmar AC's tribuenes car #57 (owner Heine) lost a rubber wheel and crashed into the trees. two people, the driver and a car's passenger were killed on the spot. One spectator recived injury by flying parts. Owner Heine died later the same day. The race was halted for three quarters of an hour.
Two days later there was another report in the Freiburger Zeitung.
The name of the passenger was given as Fritz Abenstedt. Abenstedt was the raceofficial for this car. Each car has to carry a raceofficial. Name of the driver was Brunnhuber. The Owner was hurt, but not dead. There were no fatalities among the by-standers.

[David Manson]

A single 60 hp. Berliet, always referred to as "The Kaiserpreis Berliet," came to Australia, was shown and raced in Sydney, and probably ended its days carting wheat in South Australia. Was this a Berliet model type, or an actual competition car?

It would help if months were always named, as dates expressed 'XII.VI.08' can be read as either December 6 or July 12 outside Europe.

[robert dick]

The Berliet, as driven by Jean Porporato during the 1907 and 1908 seasons in races of the 8-litre and 130-mm-bore formulae, was based on the 40/50-hp production type:
6,3 litre, 4-cylinder (in pairs) in the bore/stroke dimensions of 120/140 mm, T-head,
wheelbase 320 cm, track 140 cm, chain drive, tyres 910x90 front, 920x120 rear.
The Berliet driven to victory by Porporato in the Targa Bologna/September 1908 was described in the contemporary press as 120/140 mm.

The 60-hp production Berliet displaced 8,6 litres with 140/140 mm - mounted in a similar 320-cm chassis.
These Berliets, and the 24/30-hp (100/120 mm), were also built under license by the American Locomotive Automobile Co. in Providence, Rhode Island - later Alco.

On 31 May 1907, Hutton won the "Graphic Trophy", a 2,33 km hillclimb near Ramsey/Isle of Man, in a 60-hp Berliet, ahead of Watson and Porporato in 40-hp Berliets. Maybe the 60-hp which ended up in Australia was this 60-hp.

[pnegyesi]

The 1909 Prinz Heinrich Fahrt is considered to be a pivotal moment in the history of Hungarian motorsport.

It was the first proper Hungarian automobile racing event, as the route went through Hungary and some Hungarian made cars also appeared at the race. Now I have some photos from this event, but most of those came from contemporary magazines.

Do you know any source where they keep original photos on this event?

[Vitesse2]

The 1909 Prinz Heinrich Fahrt is considered to be a pivotal moment in the history of Hungarian motorsport.

It was the first proper Hungarian automobile racing event, as the route went through Hungary and some Hungarian made cars also appeared at the race. Now I have some photos from this event, but most of those came from contemporary magazines.

Do you know any source where they keep original photos on this event?

There's a sequence at Ullstein Bild, seemingly taken at one of the controls (not sure how the motor boats at Monaco fit though!)

http://www.ullsteinb...r...h&date=1909

Apparently just one in the vast Getty Archive:

http://www.gettyimag.../Hulton-Archive

[pnegyesi]

There's a sequence at Ullstein Bild, seemingly taken at one of the controls (not sure how the motor boats at Monaco fit though!)

http://www.ullsteinb...r...h&date=1909

Apparently just one in the vast Getty Archive:

http://www.gettyimag.../Hulton-Archive

Thanks for the links

[David Manson]

Robert, many thanks for your response of 20 Sept last (away from home, I hadn't checked earlier). Unfortunately, I don't think cylinder dimensions were ever quoted for the car in Australia.

[Martin Pfundner]

[/list][p][Edited by Hans Etzrodt on 11-11-2000]

1910 was the last genuine Prinz Heinrich-Fahrt, but on the initiative of Prince Henry of Prussia a touristic event was held under that name, starting in Germany and finishing in Great Britain.

By that time, the Alpine Trial in Austria had taken over as the most important continental reliability event, first held in 1910 and then annually until 1914.

Martin Pfundner

[A57SC]

I would be very, very grateful for informing me about the names of participants of Prinz Heinrich Fahrt 1909 who drove cars no. 612 and 639.

[robert dick]

No. 612 Deutz (bore x stroke = 124 x 130 mm; weight 1251 kg) was entered by Adolf Langen and driven by Gustav Langen.
No. 639 Deutz (110 x 130 mm; 1160 kg) was driven by Robert Dunlop.
 

[R Peck]

Hello

 

I live in Bushey, Herts, UK where Hubert von Herkomer lived for a good portion of the latter part of his life. He died in 1914 and is buried in Bushey.  There is a Bushey Museum which contains a small section about the Herkomer motoring events.  Is that a more appropriate way of referring to them?

 

He is very famous in Bushey as he started an art school here.  There is a Herkomer Road.  He built a huge house here calked Lululaund, which was quite Bavarian. After he died, his widow gave it to the council.  It was demolished in 1939 as the council feared the anti-German sentiment its continue existence would have fostered.  All that remains of the house is its front porch and beautiful gardens (The Bushey Rose Garden).  There was also a film studio in Lululaund.

 

Herkomer was clearly quite the all rounder!!
 

I would be very interested to learn more about his motoring connection.

[A57SC]

No. 612 Deutz (bore x stroke = 124 x 130 mm; weight 1251 kg) was entered by Adolf Langen and driven by Gustav Langen.
No. 639 Deutz (110 x 130 mm; 1160 kg) was driven by Robert Dunlop.
 

Thank you very much!

[AntoineP]

1910

"7. Count Geza Andrassy (owner) – Th. Pilette (driver) – Mercedes – 17.88 points"

 

On the online Mercedes archives, there is a picture of them both.

[Tim Murray]

I recently came across this photo on Facebook. It apparently came from the August 1911 issue of the Italian Touring Club magazine:



It shows Sir Arthur Conan Doyle competing on the 1911 Prinz-Heinrich-Fahrt in a 16hp Lorraine-Dietrich landaulette. He was apparently accompanied by his wife, his chauffeur (!) and an official observer from the German organising club. If he took his chauffeur along, I wonder how much of the driving the great man actually did.