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A Question for the the Stewart aficionados...


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#1 gm914

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 01:08

Hey guys,
Trying to collate a little detailed information on a particular matter.

How many of Jackie Stewart's wins came on rainy tracks?
Either torrential throughout, occasional downpours, or mist and a damp track.

Below are JYS's win totals.
Anyone remember or confirm wet races?


1965 ITA BRM P261

1966 MON BRM P261

1968 DUTCH, GER, USA, MATRA MS10

1969 RSA, ESP, MATRA MS10
1969 DUTCH, FRA, BRIT, ITA, MATRA MS80
1969 CHAMPION

1970 ESP, MARCH 701/TYRRELL ORG
1971 ESP, MON, FRA GBR GER CAN, TYRRELL 003
1971 CHAMPION

1972 ARG, FRA, TYRRELL 003
1972 CAN, USA, TYRRELL 005

1973 RSA, BEL MON, DUTCH, GER, TYRRELL 006
1973 CHAMPION

99TH RACE AT CAN WAS LAST RACE.

Thanks for any assistance :up:


Edited by gm914, 28 December 2009 - 16:45.


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#2 ff1600

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 02:44

I have been looking through my old Autocourses and it is tough to say. I think there were at least 2 but I can not remember where.

#3 Nonesuch

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 02:55

Of the race Jackie Stewart has won, STATS F1 lists only the races in the Netherlands and Germany in 1968, Canada in 1971 and Argentina in 1972 as having taken place under so called "Rain" conditions.

Hope this helps somewhat. :)

#4 ferruccio

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 03:42

Hey guys,
Trying to collate a little detailed information on a particular matter.

How many of Jackie Stewart's wins came on rainy tracks?
Either torrential throughout, occasional downpours, or mist and a damp track.

Below are JYS's win totals.
Anyone remember or confirm wet races?


1965 ITA BRM P261

1966 MON BRM P261

1968 DUTCH, GER, USA, MATRA MS10

1969 RSA, ESP, MATRA MS10
1969 DUTCH, FRA, BRIT, ITA, MATRA MS80
1969 CHAMPION

1970 ESP, MARCH 701/TYRRELL ORG
1971 ESP, MON, FRA GBR GER CAN, TYRRELL 003
1971 CHAMPION

1972 ARG, FRA, TYRRELL 003
1972 CAN, USA, TYRRELL 005

1973 RSA, BEL MON, DUTCH, GER, TYRRELL 006
1973 CHAMPION

99TH RACE AT CAN WAS LAST RACE.

Thanks for any assistance :up:

EDIT: I just posted this on TNF also, this thread can be removed if the Mods aren't cool with that type of thing.


I believe Sir Jackie raced at the Nurburgring (germany) in 1968 in the wet throughout, and won it


#5 gm914

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 04:03

nonesuch, thankyou for the quick reply!
Helps tremendously!! :up:

#6 gm914

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 04:15

I believe Sir Jackie raced at the Nurburgring (germany) in 1968 in the wet throughout, and won it

Nonesuch on the TNF board was helpful enough to supply the following.

Quote: Of the race Jackie Stewart has won, STATS F1 lists only the races in the Netherlands and Germany in 1968, Canada in 1971 and Argentina in 1972 as having taken place under so called "Rain" conditions.


If anyone has any info they'd like to share about any 'moments' in those races...accidents/duels etc.

The 1968 German GP at the Nurburgring Jackie finished a full 4m03s in front of Graham Hill!!

Thanks ff1600 for taking the time to search :up:

Edited by gm914, 28 December 2009 - 04:17.


#7 brooster51

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 04:19

He won 3 races that were 'wet', the 1968 German GP, 1968 Dutch GP and 1971 Canadian GP. The first two in a Matra MS10 and the last in a Tyrrell (003 I think but could have been 006). The 1968 German GP could be considered to be a historic race. The rain was very heavy, it was the ring, and he was dominate. I also seem to recall that he particularly hated the 'ring because racing there was such a risk.



#8 brooster51

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 04:21

Nonesuch on the TNF board was helpful enough to supply the following.

Quote: Of the race Jackie Stewart has won, STATS F1 lists only the races in the Netherlands and Germany in 1968, Canada in 1971 and Argentina in 1972 as having taken place under so called "Rain" conditions.


If anyone has any info they'd like to share about any 'moments' in those races...accidents/duels etc.

The 1968 German GP at the Nurburgring Jackie finished a full 4m03s in front of Graham Hill!!

Thanks ff1600 for taking the time to search :up:


Darn it, beat me by 4 minutes!

#9 gm914

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 04:50

Darn it, beat me by 4 minutes!

I just looked through the www.grandprix.com encyclopedia and although JYS won, I didn't find any mention or rain at the Argentinian GP of '72.

So it may be just the 3 'wet' races.

And i do believe the '71 Canadian GP was one in a Tyrrell 003.

thx brooster51 :up:

Edit:
REdARMYSOJA confirms there was late rain at the '72 USGP

Edited by gm914, 28 December 2009 - 05:11.


#10 RStock

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 04:55

At Sir Jackie's win at the 1972 USGP at Watkins Glen there was rain , but I don't believe it was until late in the race .

#11 pertti_jarla

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:00

According to Louis Stanley yearbooks...
1965 ITA BRM P261: dry and sunny

1966 MON BRM P261: warm and sunny

1968 USA, MATRA MS10 : dry, overcast but cold

...but of course Nonesuch answered this one already....



#12 gm914

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 18:08

Thanks>
Next query....

I seem to be coming into a bit of confusion or misinformaton regarding the car #'s Jackie wore in these wet races.

Anyone with some solid info out there?
Or a handy link where all this information is stored? :kiss:


RAIN

1965 ITA BRM P261
1966 MON BRM P261
1968 DUTCH, GER, USA, MATRA MS10
1969 RSA, ESP, MATRA MS10
1969 DUTCH, FRA, BRIT, ITA, MATRA MS80
1969 CHAMPION
1970 ESP, MARCH 701/TYRRELL ORG
1971 ESP, MON, FRA GBR GER CAN, TYRRELL 003
1971 CHAMPION
1972 ARG, FRA, TYRRELL 003 1972 CAN, USA, TYRRELL 005 POLE, FL, WIN IN USA

Edited by gm914, 28 December 2009 - 18:11.


#13 Tim Murray

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 19:01

These are the numbers as listed in Steve Small's Grand Prix Who's Who:

1965 	Italian GP	321966	Monaco GP	121968	Dutch GP	8	German GP	6	US GP		151969	S African GP	7	Spanish GP	7	Dutch GP	4	French GP	2	British GP	3	Italian GP	201970	Spanish GP	11971	Spanish GP	11	Monaco GP	11	French GP	11	British GP	12	German GP	2	Canadian GP	111972	Argentine GP	21	French GP	4	Canadian GP	1	US GP		1


#14 gm914

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 19:27

Nice one Tim!
Thankyou.

Probably an easy question, but why so many number changes, even from race to race, back in those days??

Was it assigned from finishing positions of the previous races, then?

#15 Tim Murray

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 20:05

Until the standardised numbering system for F1 was introduced in 1973/74 there was no rhyme or reason to it - individual race organisers issued the numbers for their race as they saw fit. Sometimes this was based on the order in which they received entries. Sometimes they would base their entry list on the finishing order in the previous year's constructors' championship - British organisers quite often did this.

#16 gm914

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 21:24

Thanks for clearing that up.

What's with these tyres on the Matra MS10?
I've never seen them in other pics.
This was supposedly taken at Zandvoort in '68.
I am thinking they'd be a wet tyre, but that track looks bone dry.
Any clues?
Posted Image

#17 RStock

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 21:46

Thanks for clearing that up.

What's with these tyres on the Matra MS10?
I've never seen them in other pics.
This was supposedly taken at Zandvoort in '68.
I am thinking they'd be a wet tyre, but that track looks bone dry.
Any clues?
Posted Image


It was a very wet week at Zandvort in 1968 . He was probably just in a dry section of track when the photo was taken .


#18 JtP1

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 22:33

Thanks for clearing that up.

What's with these tyres on the Matra MS10?
I've never seen them in other pics.
This was supposedly taken at Zandvoort in '68.
I am thinking they'd be a wet tyre, but that track looks bone dry.
Any clues?
Posted Image


They were a Dunlop with effectively the centre tread band removed to aid tread drainage. I think the idea was to allow the tread to drain from each side of two narrow tyres. The Dunlops used at Nurburgring had the Aquajet design to aid water removal.


#19 PCC

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 00:37

If anyone has any info they'd like to share about any 'moments' in those races...accidents/duels etc.

I seem to recall that Canada 1971 was shortened (by how much I do not remember) due to poor visibility - the fog became so thick that marshals could no longer see to the next post. The problem was made worse by fading light, as the race was started late due to a fatal accident in a Formula Ford supporting event. I'm sorry I don't recall more about the race, although I remember JYS coming up to the tower for his post-race interview, and making a point of extending his sympathy to family and friends of Wayne Kelly, the FF driver who had died earlier that day. I was only ten years old, but he struck me as sincere and compassionate, and I have never forgotten what a class act he was.

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#20 brooster51

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 02:29

Returning to the 72 USGP, the race report on FORIX does say that there was a brief shower on lap 40 that 'soaked Turn One'. Scheckter was running 4th in his debut GP, found the water and spun out of the race. But the race is listed as 'Sunny, Mild Dry'.

FORIX, which comes with Autosport.com, is a great source for research. It's in the upper right corner of the black ribbon at the top.