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New teams without title sponsors: is the budget there or not?


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#1 4ren

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 13:39

Today I was reading the news about Tony Teixeira looking into buying a part of the Campos team. As Campos and USF1 have not disclosed any title sponsor, this news made me wonder if they are not struggling to complete the budget. If that's the case, then why they were granted the entry for the 2010 championship? I thought the FIA took notice of the budget of each team, but I don't see it that clear. Lotus is maybe a bit different, but they still miss the main sponsors.

Manor is the only one who seems to have it all, teaming with Virgin. Isn't a bit late? By the way, before you compare with Brawn last year, I think they are unrelated cases.

Edited by 4ren, 09 January 2010 - 13:40.


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#2 J2NH

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 14:03

Combine the world's economic depression and the recent, to numerous to mention, F1 scandals and it is understandable that even established teams like Sauber are going to struggle with getting to the grid in 2010.

The days when Bernie required the 100 million dollar deposit as a financial guarantee are gone along with the manufacturers, tobacco money, and the financial institutions. My personal opinion is that F1 is a victim of its own greed. Too much has been made of cost cutting and not enough about where the income stream goes. Outrageous fees to promoters and huge debt loads are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Imagine how much better the sport would be if the income was directed back into the participants and it was essentially self sustaining.
Rant off.

Back to the question at hand. I will be surprised if all of the teams make it to the gird and for those that do, I will be further surprised if they all make it to the end of the season. Hope I'm wrong, but the memory of engine suppliers threatening to have teams cars and equipment confiscated on GP weekends for lack of payment is still fresh in my mind.

#3 olliek88

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 16:58

Lotus have a title sponsor in AirAisia, which is where tony fernandes comes into it, and USF1 are looking likley to have youtube as one of their main sponsors, and Virgin GP are spoken for, not sure about campos apart from this takeover stuff, if i had to bet on which team i think is least likely to make it id say campos simply because no one in their team seems to have any real f1 experience, whereas the other 3 teams do.

#4 HP

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 17:16

Lotus have a title sponsor in AirAisia, which is where tony fernandes comes into it, and USF1 are looking likley to have youtube as one of their main sponsors, and Virgin GP are spoken for, not sure about campos apart from this takeover stuff, if i had to bet on which team i think is least likely to make it id say campos simply because no one in their team seems to have any real f1 experience, whereas the other 3 teams do.

youtube ?? Their parent company makes money, but youtube not.

#5 potmotr

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 17:23

Sauber: Maybe
Campos: No No
USF1: No No Nooooooo

#6 olliek88

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 17:31

youtube ?? Their parent company makes money, but youtube not.


i don't know whether or not youtube its self make money, just that theres been lots of news/rumours saying that youtube/co-founder chad hurley are going to be sponsoring the USF1 team.

#7 greenblood

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 18:06

Lotus have a title sponsor in AirAisia, which is where tony fernandes comes into it


Fernades said recently that Air Asia are staying with Williams until Lotus is established. He has to justify his decisions to Air Asia's shareholders, so has to be careful to avoid a conflict of interest.

All of the new teams had to submit details of their financing to FIA as part of the selection process. The relaxing of the budget cap would have been a nasty surprise to them all, but one would hope that they would not have been given their slot if they didn't have the money to go racing.


#8 DOF_power

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 18:08

These issues are a surprise or of any relevance because ... ?!


#9 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:27

Lotus have a title sponsor in AirAisia, which is where tony fernandes comes into it, and USF1 are looking likley to have youtube as one of their main sponsors, and Virgin GP are spoken for, not sure about campos apart from this takeover stuff, if i had to bet on which team i think is least likely to make it id say campos simply because no one in their team seems to have any real f1 experience, whereas the other 3 teams do.


Why does YouTube need to sponsor anything? They are already dominant so it is a pointless exercise. :)

Because the third single by Band X Album 4 from 1971 is missing and the German GP from 1983 is incomplete unlike the 1982 example and they hope to get better video uploaded and therefore more visitors!? Most pop culture videos can be found there already and they can hardly be more dominant in making money off privately posted originally copyright material. :)

Did they originally intend to give everybody immediate access to a kind-of extensive television archive library or only for people to post home movies and blogs :eek:

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 09 January 2010 - 22:34.


#10 BMW_F1

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:35

does Sauber's have a major sponsor? how about renault? they dont even have a website

#11 olliek88

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:37

Why does YouTube need to sponsor anything? They are already dominant so it is a pointless exercise. :)

Because the third single by Band X Album 4 from 1971 is missing and the German GP from 1983 is incomplete unlike the 1982 example and they hope to get better video uploaded and therefore more visitors!? Most pop culture videos can be found there already and they can hardly be more dominant in making money off privately posted originally copyright material. :)


well we'll see who is right in a few weeks mate. :smoking: if im wrong fair play and ill look like a complete tit, but pretty sure im not.

#12 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:39

Imagine how much better the sport would be if the income was directed back into the participants and it was essentially self sustaining.
Rant off.


So beautifully said! And so true!

#13 rmac923

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:04

Regarding USF1, It's rumoured that Lopez is bringing Claro (Largest Mobile Phone network in Central/South America) and Visa Credit Card as sponsors. Considering the billions each company has, one is almost certain to be title sponsor.



#14 piercey

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:06

With USF1, remember there are rumors about Best Buy involvement as well. They already sponsor Allmendinger in NASCAR, wouldn't be surprised if they decided to sponsor USF1 as well. Also, Lopez's sponsor list has been widely spread, and if they can convince a few of them to sign with USF1 (Visa, LoJack to name a few), they will be in pretty good shape. Not to mention Lopez and driver #2 (Rossiter?) bring $$. I have no worries with them.

Campos, on the other hand, seems like they are in a spot. Whenever rumors of Texiera are involved, that is not good. For their sake, I hope Petrov and Maldonado are in an epic bidding war, because if any of the rumors are true, Campos is going to walk down the street to practice in their own country without a ride. Ouch.

#15 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:26

Today I was reading the news about Tony Teixeira looking into buying a part of the Campos team. As Campos and USF1 have not disclosed any title sponsor, this news made me wonder if they are not struggling to complete the budget. If that's the case, then why they were granted the entry for the 2010 championship? I thought the FIA took notice of the budget of each team, but I don't see it that clear.

There's still a lot of time left to sign a title sponsor. Campos have said they're close to getting one; it's likely to be Gazprom or PDVSA depending on whether they sign Vitaly Petrov or Pastor Maldonado. And there's nothing in the rules that says a team has to have a title sponsor; for all we know, they don't even want one. As for USF1, they're expected to release the names of their drivers - and probably sponsors with them - on the 25th.

#16 4ren

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:10

There's still a lot of time left to sign a title sponsor. Campos have said they're close to getting one; it's likely to be Gazprom or PDVSA depending on whether they sign Vitaly Petrov or Pastor Maldonado. And there's nothing in the rules that says a team has to have a title sponsor; for all we know, they don't even want one. As for USF1, they're expected to release the names of their drivers - and probably sponsors with them - on the 25th.

Is there? Well, we are two months away from Bahrein, that's true. But if you have a 9 month long season ahead of you, I'd say you should know how much you have available two months before.

#17 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:36

Is there? Well, we are two months away from Bahrein, that's true. But if you have a 9 month long season ahead of you, I'd say you should know how much you have available two months before.

I believe the holdup in Campos' negotiations lies in the exact way the money will be paid from sponsor to team.

#18 Muzzinho

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:39

I believe the holdup in Campos' negotiations lies in the exact way the money will be paid from sponsor to team.


Source???

#19 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:44

Source???

I don't have a source - but I do know that Pastor Maldonado and Vitaly Petrov both have the same amount of money on offer and that both possibly have a provision for more in the event of a bidding war. I know that the money from both men comes from their sponsors (PDVSA and Gazprom respectively) and that they are likely to be the team's major sponsor given the amount of money on offer. Given that Campos keep asserting that they'll have a sponsor deal done soon, what other explanation is there?

And when I said "I believe" I meant it in the sense that "I believe that this is what is happening", an expression of personal opinion.

EDIT: Oh, come on! You've never seen Snatch? I'm saying "don't pounce on me for no reason" and referencing popular culture!

Edited by Captain Tightpants, 10 January 2010 - 10:55.
To remove contentious line. "There's no need to get the pigs ready, Brick Top."


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#20 4ren

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:50

Source???

Why ask for a source? He clearly says "I believe". May or may not be true, but for this thread it's a valid contribution.

#21 Muzzinho

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 11:53

Tightpants always asks for a source... I learnt that off him

:up: :up: :up:



4ren, You should ask for a source as well if you want to be taken seriously around here.

#22 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:07

Tightpants always asks for a source... I learnt that off him

And if Tightpants doesn't supply a source, it's because his post is written in a way that expresses the fact that it's his opinion, not a fact he's quoting.

#23 ForeverF1

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:21

Guys, please keep the thread on topic.

#24 Jackmancer

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 18:12

I don't think Formula 1 requires heaps of money (and thus a title sponsor) to just compete. To win, yeah for sure, you need money from everywhere (and thus a title sponsor). I mean, to get to those quick times in the race is relativly easy, but to get those tenths of and be in the front, that's hard. And I don't see any of the new teams doing that anywhere soon anyway.

#25 pingu666

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 04:04

just to turn up with minimal crew could be done for alot less than say ferrari and macca spend, but its still a massive finacial commitment... i think super aguri had around 80 to over 100 people. I guess you need alot of admin staff as its a international championship, so sorting out passports and air fares and visa's and all that...

nascar is maybe the best series to try and just get by in

#26 J2NH

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 04:15

I don't think Formula 1 requires heaps of money (and thus a title sponsor) to just compete. To win, yeah for sure, you need money from everywhere (and thus a title sponsor). I mean, to get to those quick times in the race is relativly easy, but to get those tenths of and be in the front, that's hard. And I don't see any of the new teams doing that anywhere soon anyway.


I guess it depends what you consider to be "heaps of money" but when you figure the new teams have do not have the income for participating last year, or travel money, and still have the expense of design, manufacture, payrolls, and all the rest this is not a cheap venture. Not for the feint of heart.

#27 pingu666

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 04:20

i think they are due to get 10million?

#28 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 04:21

Campos' budget is said to be forty-eight million Euro. Lotus' is known to be fifty-five million, which Virgin reckon they can do it for under forty. Both Lotus and Campos are doing fine for themselves, so I'm struggling to comprehen how Campos figure they may not make it. Petrov/Maldonado are said to have twenty million dolalrs at their back (I don't know the exact conversion rate, so for argument's sake, let's assume that one dollar equals the same as one Euro), which means there's still twenty-eight million to be accounted for. And I seriously doubt that Dallara could build a car at all if a good portion of that money remains in limbo. This leads me to conclude that Campos are more for selling a stake in the team rather than selling the team outright.

#29 J2NH

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 04:55

i think they are due to get 10million?


Could be but it is stlll going to be a huge chunk of change to make this happen. Anybody know what Cosworth is charging for engines? This has got to be one of those deals where you make your budget, multiply times 3 and then just squeak by.


#30 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 05:21

I believe the price of the Cosworth engine is fixed at five million.