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2010 will show just how good Schumacher is


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#1 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 20:41

Ok first off, this is not a flambait thread.

I think for the first time we can really judge the skill of Schumacher, without any questionmarks.
No more exclusive number 1 status by contract, remember that Rosberg was
signed before M-B even knew that Schumacher was available.

No more exclusive running on tires that have been designed for him.
Now everybody has the same tires and you need to drive on two different
compounds.

He will have an top class engine, that is shared with several other top drivers.

He will also have a championship winning car. We know the car is good.

He may be older but he has tons of experience and he´s very motivated which is far more important.
He´s still in great shape too, and have several months left to reach that top fitness.

Next year I think we will have 4 good teams: McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull and Ferrari.
We also have many good drivers, Lewis, Alonso, Vettel, Button and Massa

All these stories that we´ve been told about his driving technique, on how he goes too quick into the corners
but still manages to hold the car. On how he uses weight transfer etc etc
Or his unique throttle sensitivity (remember the long throttle travel he had), especially now when
there´s no traction control. Or how his steering input in the corners are much more constant and smaller than ex Herbert

What do you think will happen? Will he wipe the floor with the young guns and prove once and for all that
the new generation drivers don´t have the skill of the past drivers.
Will be still be the rainmaster? Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso are all very good in the wet.
Or do you think he will struggle and maybe only win an odd race and finish in 4-5 th place?

I´ll be the first one to admit the greatness (of his skill) if he beats them hands done and if it´s clear that
Rosberg isn´t getting inferior machinery or strategy/support.



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#2 jeze

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 20:50

I´ll be the first one to admit the greatness (of his skill) if he beats them hands done and if it´s clear that
Rosberg isn´t getting inferior machinery or strategy/support.


And you think Benetton built a cart to Herbert, and that Barrichello got less revs in the engine? Think again. Do you seriously think Barrichello would have had a clue against Schumacher no matter how? No way. Ferrari built two identical cars, and Barrichello was never fast enough to be a challenger.

#3 Jan.W

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 20:56

.
Will be still be the rainmaster? Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso are all very good in the wet.


He will trash all of them in the Wet. Mark my words.

#4 craftverk

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 20:56

He will trash all of them in the Wet. Mark my words.

Depends on the car.

#5 noikeee

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 20:59

Yes because a driver's true worth is measured by how quick they are when they're 41, and have been sitting doing nothing but scratching their asses for 3 years.

#6 DOF_power

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 20:59

Ok first off, this is not a flambait thread.

I think for the first time we can really judge the skill of Schumacher, without any questionmarks.
No more exclusive number 1 status by contract, remember that Rosberg was
signed before M-B even knew that Schumacher was available.

No more exclusive running on tires that have been designed for him.
Now everybody has the same tires and you need to drive on two different
compounds.

He will have an top class engine, that is shared with several other top drivers.

He will also have a championship winning car. We know the car is good.

He may be older but he has tons of experience and he´s very motivated which is far more important.
He´s still in great shape too, and have several months left to reach that top fitness.

Next year I think we will have 4 good teams: McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull and Ferrari.
We also have many good drivers, Lewis, Alonso, Vettel, Button and Massa

All these stories that we´ve been told about his driving technique, on how he goes too quick into the corners
but still manages to hold the car. On how he uses weight transfer etc etc
Or his unique throttle sensitivity (remember the long throttle travel he had), especially now when
there´s no traction control.
Or how his steering input in the corners are much more constant and smaller than ex Herbert

What do you think will happen? Will he wipe the floor with the young guns and prove once and for all that
the new generation drivers don´t have the skill of the past drivers.
Will be still be the rainmaster? Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso are all very good in the wet.
Or do you think he will struggle and maybe only win an odd race and finish in 4-5 th place?

I´ll be the first one to admit the greatness (of his skill) if he beats them hands done and if it´s clear that
Rosberg isn´t getting inferior machinery or strategy/support.




1994 and 95 ?!
Jordan had TC 1991 ?!
Are you serious .

#7 mistergagaX

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:00

09.01.2010 from Michaelschumacher.de

Michael visits Brackley

"I am very impressed, everybody seems to be really motivated"

"I have been in the factory in Brackley now for two days and spent the time to get to know the engineers and the structures a bit better, and I am extremely positive surprised about how motivated everbody was. This a world champion team but it does not seem to be spoilt by success at all; it seems to be hungry for more instead!

It is important for me to be informed about everything and it was very interesting to get to understand the engineers and their structures and the way they work. I was there already around the time of the signature of the contract and learned a lot, now I have seen much more about the team.

I also was in the Mercedes-factory in Brixworth and I have to say that I am very impressed about the high level you see there. In Brixworth the people seem to be highly motivated as well and I find that encouraging, as it perfectly fits my personal mood. What I also liked was that you hear a lot of people speaking german there. That is nice for once, I am not so much used to that at my work, and I find it quite convenient."

---


Schumacher has beaten everybody in f1 - he has nothing to prove to anywon, especially to his critics !

Schumacher F1 champ 2010 ! and beyond .........


#8 Jan.W

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:01

Depends on the car.


i don't think so.
Schumacher's biggest problem in the wet in the past years was Michelin. Not the car.


#9 Nuvol

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:02

Do we really need another Schumacher thread? jeez when the season starts there will be only Schumacher threads here. Schusport.com :rotfl: :drunk:

Edited by Nuvol, 09 January 2010 - 21:03.


#10 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:04

And you think Benetton built a cart to Herbert, and that Barrichello got less revs in the engine? Think again. Do you seriously think Barrichello would have had a clue against Schumacher no matter how? No way. Ferrari built two identical cars, and Barrichello was never fast enough to be a challenger.


We know that Schumacher teammates weren´t allowed to race him. Austria 2002 happened, that´s a fact.
Now lets move on from that part as it´s beaten to death.

#11 mistergagaX

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:06

We also have many good drivers, Lewis, Alonso, Vettel, Button and Massa


with the exception of Lewis and Vettel, schumacher has beaten ALL of them ......

#12 Nuvol

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:07

Team orders happened before and after Schumacher. move on FFS. Fangio was given a car to win WDC by his teammate who could be a WC if he didnt hand the car . But what you can know about it.

#13 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:07

i don't think so.
Schumacher's biggest problem in the wet in the past years was Michelin. Not the car.


I think it was the other way round. Bridgestones were from the beginning superior
to the Michelins in the wet. What happened later was that Michelin finally made good wet
weather tires.

The good thing now is that everybody will be on the same tire.

#14 Jan.W

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:07

Schumacher has beaten everybody in f1 - he has nothing to prove to anywon, especially to his critics !
.

:up:

But it's nice to measure how much pain Schumacher brought to them since 1991. :lol:

#15 Jan.W

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:09

I think it was the other way round. Bridgestones were from the beginning superior
to the Michelins in the wet. What happened later was that Michelin finally made good wet
weather tires.

The good thing now is that everybody will be on the same tire.


Yeah , as they were until 2001 :

#16 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:10

with the exception of Lewis and Vettel, schumacher has beaten ALL of them ......


Yes with a better car he did.
Now the field is more equalized, and with the same tires.
Remember also that Alonso did beat Schumacher in 2006.

#17 carbonfibre

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:11

He will also have a championship winning car. We know the car is good.

Do we? Have you already gotten some inside information?

As far as i know last years car gives no guarantees that this years car will be just as good. And besides that what does he need to prove? He already won so many times he hasn't got a thing to prove, it would just make his legend even bigger if he would manage to win races on this age and after a break that lasted three years.

Yes with a better car he did.
Now the field is more equalized, and with the same tires.
Remember also that Alonso did beat Schumacher in 2006.

And when he got that better car he did not "beat" them but crushed them would be a better description.

Edited by carbonfibre, 09 January 2010 - 21:12.


#18 mistergagaX

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:17

Yes with a better car he did.
Now the field is more equalized, and with the same tires.
Remember also that Alonso did beat Schumacher in 2006.




Q: Do you expect the competition to be tougher than it was some years ago?
MS: Probably tighter, yes. Tougher? No, why? There have always been top drivers around - that will never change. And I see chances for me to fit into that mould again. That’s why I am coming back.

oh and, Fernando did'nt beat Schumacher, it was Renault and Michelin that beat him :cool:



#19 Nuvol

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:17

or Ferrari engine at Suzuka :rotfl:

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#20 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:23

Do we? Have you already gotten some inside information?

As far as i know last years car gives no guarantees that this years car will be just as good. And besides that what does he need to prove? He already won so many times he hasn't got a thing to prove, it would just make his legend even bigger if he would manage to win races on this age and after a break that lasted three years.

And when he got that better car he did not "beat" them but crushed them would be a better description.


Who here thinks that the McLaren, the RedBull or the Ferrari will not be a fast car next season?
Please raise your hand in such case. And as the Brawn was the best car last season, I would include it in
that group.

Schumacher may have crushed Alonso, Jenson, etc when he had a better car, but the same
happened in 2005 when Schumacher was crushed. You see?

Now, I think we are going to see many top drivers in quite equal cars.

#21 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:28

oh and, Fernando did'nt beat Schumacher, it was Renault and Michelin that beat him :cool:


Of course! Schumacher can´t be beaten!
It´s always somebody else fault now isn´t it?
It was the michelin tires that made him crash out of the
australian GP as an example?


#22 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:29

i don't think so.
Schumacher's biggest problem in the wet in the past years was Michelin. Not the car.

Its still dependent on the car. The myth that rain 'equalizes' the competition is just a myth. We saw last year how a great wet-weather driver(Lewis) cant do poop in the wet without the car underneath him.

And we also need to remember that success in 09 is no guarantee of success in 2010, so we cant say for sure that the Mercedes will be a championship-capable car.

I'm with the other people that are saying that Schumacher has little left to prove.

#23 Trust

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:29

Depends on the car.

Agree with you on that.


#24 P123

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:44

i don't think so.
Schumacher's biggest problem in the wet in the past years was Michelin. Not the car.


Hill beat him quite a few times in the wet, as did DC. Of course Schumacher is brilliant in low grip conditions and some of his greatest drives have been in wet weather, but that doesn't mean him triumphing in wet conditions is a certainty.

#25 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 21:57

I'm with the other people that are saying that Schumacher has little left to prove.


This thread is not about if Schumacher has anything left to prove.
It´s a question about just exactly how good is he against the current crop.




#26 Nuvol

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:08

You can compare only how good 41 old year Schumacher is vs current grid.
Schumacher at his peak (2000?) would destroy them definitely.

#27 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:10

This thread is not about if Schumacher has anything left to prove.
It´s a question about just exactly how good is he against the current crop.

Same thing, really.

#28 undersquare

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:15

Same thing, really.


I don't think so. Schumi is putting a certain amount on the table. If Nico is a lot slower than the others and Michael is quicker, his reputatiion will be even greater.

And vice-versa, of course.

#29 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:21

You can compare only how good 41 old year Schumacher is vs current grid.
Schumacher at his peak (2000?) would destroy them definitely.


What´s this? A fanboy´s fantasy?
There are several drivers, ex F1 drivers that have said that the
age is of minor importance. It´s what in your head that matters,
the motivation. Remember Fangios age, or Hill´s?

Schumacher didn´t "destroy" Hakkinen in 2000 btw, he just beat him.
Now why would he destoy the current grid? Are they much worse than
Hakkinen, is that what you´re saying?

#30 as65p

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:29

There are several drivers, ex F1 drivers that have said that the
age is of minor importance. It´s what in your head that matters,
the motivation.


Well, to find ex drivers stating that age doesn't matter is the easiest thing in the world.

By the sound of it MS believes that too. My guess is that 2010 will change his opinion.

#31 SAFC09

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:30

If Merc give him a good car and his neck is, as he says, not a problem, i can see him being a genuine threat

But how will his neck react to the loads and pressure it will be under ?

Does anyone actualy know what the problem with his neck is ?

One thing's for certain, even before his return was announced, 2010 was shaping up to be an intriguing battle between some top drivers, Michaels comeback adds that extra bit of spice

I can't wait

#32 Fortymark

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:35

One thing's for certain, even before his return was announced, 2010 was shaping up to be an intriguing battle between some top drivers, Michaels comeback adds that extra bit of spice

I can't wait


I think we all can agree with that!
2010 will be super :up:

#33 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:37

Rosberg will be left high and dry on jacks pre formation lap like Rubens was at Ferrari at France 2002 was it? Haha! Just kiddin guys, yes we shall see if MS goes good or bust. If bust, he should of stayed retired lol...

#34 thiscocks

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:40

Alonso will bend him over and give him a good spanking. Again.

#35 George Costanza

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:44

Alonso will bend him over and give him a good spanking. Again.


The same Alonso who got lucky when Schu's engine went out in Suzuka of 2006?

Edited by George Costanza, 09 January 2010 - 22:44.


#36 DOF_power

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:49

The same Alonso who got lucky when Schu's engine went out in Suzuka of 2006?




That **** doesn't fly, Alonso's engine also blew at Monza and he had the wheel-nut failure at Hungary.

#37 thiscocks

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:50

Yes the same Alonso who beat shum to the 2006 title. Thats him.

#38 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:52

I don't think so. Schumi is putting a certain amount on the table. If Nico is a lot slower than the others and Michael is quicker, his reputatiion will be even greater.

And vice-versa, of course.

Not necessarily. Two scenarios:

Schumacher faster:

Person A - "Schumacher is the greatest."

Person B - "Rosberg is not that good, of course he was going to be beat."

Rosberg faster:

Person A: "Schumacher is old."

Person B: "Rosberg is awesome."

Person C: "Schumacher sucks and has always been overrated."

I'm sure there's more 'excuses' that will be used no matter what happens. The point is that many people start with preconceived notions and then organize the facts to 'fit' those notions, rather than take the facts and formulate new opinions.

Whatever happens, nothing will ever be conclusive. Except that Michael Schumacher will still be a 7X WDC.  ;)

#39 nestor

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:54

He will trash all of them in the Wet. Mark my words.


Just like Alonso trashed him at Hungary '06 ... :stoned:

It depends on the car and on the tyres to be good in the wet and also to have a good wet set up and then obviously the last part comes down to the driver who needs to be decent at driving on the wet , but believe me , MS is no better than any of those guys in the wet ....

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#40 Bruce4u

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:00

You can compare only how good 41 old year Schumacher is vs current grid.


If MS wasnt confident about his speed he wouldnt have signed in first place. Are you doubting his speed?

Schumacher at his peak (2000?) would destroy them definitely.


Based on what?

Edited by Bruce4u, 09 January 2010 - 23:00.


#41 Tifosi90

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:03

Schumi has nothing left to prove. If after 7 WDC's and 91 wins later people are still questioning how good he really is, then it's a lost battle since those people will never change their opinion no matter what schumi does in 2010.

This thread is useless and anyone who think's Schumi is not that good need to get their brain and eyes checked asap.

#42 undersquare

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:06

Not necessarily. Two scenarios:

Schumacher faster:

Person A - "Schumacher is the greatest."

Person B - "Rosberg is not that good, of course he was going to be beat."

Rosberg faster:

Person A: "Schumacher is old."

Person B: "Rosberg is awesome."

Person C: "Schumacher sucks and has always been overrated."

I'm sure there's more 'excuses' that will be used no matter what happens. The point is that many people start with preconceived notions and then organize the facts to 'fit' those notions, rather than take the facts and formulate new opinions.

Whatever happens, nothing will ever be conclusive. Except that Michael Schumacher will still be a 7X WDC.  ;)


:lol: the forum we know and love.

Still, there is some vague thing called a reputation, that goes up or down according to what happens on race weekends. We see that in the polls.

And we see also that the number of wdc's doesn't correspond exactly with reputation. Michael's can still go up or down, just only so far down, obviously, if it moves in that direction. And it might go up.

It's going to move, though. Fast/slow fair/unfair consistent/error-prone. We shall see.

#43 Bruce4u

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:07

Schumi has nothing left to prove. If after 7 WDC's and 91 wins later people are still questioning how good he really is, then it's a lost battle since those people will never change their opinion no matter what schumi does in 2010.

This thread is useless and anyone who think's Schumi is not that good need to get their brain and eyes checked asap.


You are right, MS has nothing left to prove, so why does he come back? If he doesnt need to prove anything why take the risk to lose so much? For any #1 there is only 1 way ...

#44 Nuvol

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:09

because he is real racer. he loves it . Doesnt need prove anything.

Edited by Nuvol, 09 January 2010 - 23:09.


#45 Hypnotise

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:11

The same shumi who would have won in Brazil if not for fisi slashing his tyre?

#46 Bruce4u

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:14

because he is real racer. he loves it . Doesnt need prove anything.


There are other classes he could compete, maybe MS has some unfinished business in F1?

#47 race addicted

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:16

Ok first off, this is not a flambait thread.


He will also have a championship winning car. We know the car is good.

We also have many good drivers, Lewis, Alonso, Vettel, Button and Massa


#1 - I never thought it was. You're sometimes on the outskirts of what's popular belief (so am I) around here, but I usually find your posts good.
#2 - We don't know that! No-one knows. There's nothing automatic in that just because the '09 car was great.
#3 - I insist on you including Webber there. =)

Edited by race addicted, 09 January 2010 - 23:23.


#48 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:17

The same shumi who would have won in Brazil if not for fisi slashing his tyre?

Or: "The same Schumi who ran too close to Fisi and got his tire slashed."

Just kinda shows how there's always more than one way to interpret something in F1.

Basically(@undersquare - since I dont wanna quote more than one post right now), I think that most people will go on believing the same thing they already do about Schumacher no matter what happens. People will take whatever happens and fit it to their preconceived notions.

#49 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:19

There are other classes he could compete, maybe MS has some unfinished business in F1?

Nah. I think Schumi just likes F1 and knows its where he's at his best.

He's competed in professional bike and kart races since his retirement, but F1 probably still feels like 'home' to him. One last hurrah, I'd say. I dont like the guy much, but I definitely think the 2010 season is better now that he's on the grid.

#50 undersquare

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 23:33

Basically(@undersquare - since I dont wanna quote more than one post right now), I think that most people will go on believing the same thing they already do about Schumacher no matter what happens. People will take whatever happens and fit it to their preconceived notions.


The fanboys and bashboys, yes. But they're a noisy minority, most people learn at least slightly from experience. Well I'm expecting my opinion of Schumi to change a little, anyway.