56 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

What - or who - on earth is that? These pix drawn from the GP Library archives are open for identification, discussion, development, rubbishing...naturally, as you see fit. I meant to post these on Christmas Day, but as always...and in this case no thanks to Image Shack's revamp...running late...


1


2


3


4


5


6


7

All images Copyright, or from unmarked prints preserved within: The GP Library

DCN

[ndpndp]

Well...
Photo No 2 is Tripoli 1936
Car 4 is Siena's substantially modified Maserati 6C-34, whilst No.44 is Ghersi's more standard-looking version of the 6C-34.
Then visible are Nos. 54 Severi's private Tipo B Alfa, followed by No 16 Tadini's Alfa 12C-36 and No.48, Brivio's similar car.

Thank you, Doug.

ADAM

Edited by ndpndp, 09 January 2010 - 21:55.

[Gerr]

First pic is Mr. and Mrs. Bill Vukovich. 1953.

[Vitesse2]

First pic is Mr. and Mrs. Bill Vukovich. 1953.

I thought he looked hot!

#4 is before the start of the 1903 GBT at Athy. Jenatzy in the middle, Edge on the right. Is the other one Edge's mechanic (whose name escapes me)?

[Rob]

Was photo number 3 taken at Douglas during the Tourist Trophy?

[Vitesse2]

Was photo number 3 taken at Douglas during the Tourist Trophy?

No. Mainly because no 1930s or later TT took place on the Isle of Man ...

Hillclimb or sprint, I think. Note that the driver doesn't appear to be wearing even a wind cap, so 30s to early 50s.

Is #5 a less well-known shot of Clark and Gurney at Spa in 1964?

[r.atlos]

N° 7 looks like the Gulf garage at Le Mans 1973 to me.

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

no 3 Harewood hillclimb.

no6 David Piper , gto

[Mistron]

3 is Bo'Ness

[Kpy]

5
Looks like Dan G and Jimmy C at Spa 1964. Jimmy may be grinning because he won after running out of petrol at Stavelot and thinking he'd lost.
Edit -missed Vitesse's earlier post

Edited by Kpy, 09 January 2010 - 22:56.

[Rob]

No. Mainly because no 1930s or later TT took place on the Isle of Man ...

Are you sure? The June issue of Motor Sport from 1937 seems to claim that the race on the Isle of Man that year was the Tourist Trophy.

[Vitesse2]

Are you sure? The June issue of Motor Sport from 1937 seems to claim that the race on the Isle of Man that year was the Tourist Trophy.

Positive. The 1937 TT was run at Donington Park after several spectator fatalities at Ards in 1936. The Isle of Man was one of the mooted venues IIRC, but as the RAC had lost large amounts of money on the Mannin Beg, Mannin Moar and International Light Car Race they were loath to return to the island. Car clubs south of the Irish border were also keen to run the TT, but in the end they went with the safest option at Donington, which had already run a successful 12 hour sports car race as a rehearsal earlier in the year.

Edited by Vitesse2, 09 January 2010 - 23:10.

[simonlewisbooks]

3 is Bo'Ness

Agreed definately Bo'Ness, looks like an HRG.

[Rob]

Positive. The 1937 TT was run at Donington Park after several spectator fatalities at Ards in 1936. The Isle of Man was one of the mooted venues IIRC, but as the RAC had lost large amounts of money on the Mannin Beg, Mannin Moar and International Light Car Race they were loath to return to the island. Car clubs south of the Irish border were also keen to run the TT, but in the end they went with the safest option at Donington, which had already run a successful 12 hour sports car race as a rehearsal earlier in the year.

Ah, OK. Must be a mistake then. Sorry for dragging us off topic!

[ahe]

Photo No 3 is a 1937 HRG chassis W66 delivered new to Ken Baillie.
Registration number GPB 250. Sold 1945 to Jack (John) Newton.

Regards

/Anders

[Catalina Park]

I can't see numbers six and seven.

Damn Imageshack.

[Ivan Saxton]

What - or who - on earth is that? These pix drawn from the GP Library archives are open for identification, discussion, development, rubbishing...naturally, as you see fit. I meant to post these on Christmas Day, but as always...and in this case no thanks to Image Shack's revamp...running late...


1


2


3


4


5


6


7

All images Copyright, or from unmarked prints preserved within: The GP Library

DCN

In #4, S.F. Edge is unmistakeable. When you look at pictures of the race, the white coats seem to be a status mark of the drivers. I cannot find and photo which would enable me to determine whether it might be Cecil Edge or Charles Jarrott, perhaps.
Incidentally, I have never seen mention of it in any book, but the Jarratt car of 1910 was a re-named Type 31 4 cylinder left hand cranking Napier. Maybe they escaped as taxi-cabs, at a time when Napier was becoming disillusioned with the sales arrangement with S.F.Edge.
Ken Watson restored the chassis of one of these using parts of another. Ken was an aircraft engine mecanic from Cootamundra. The car is still about though Ken is not.

[raceannouncer2003]

I can't see numbers six and seven

I can't either.

Vince H.

[David McKinney]

I couldn't yesterday, but can today

[raceannouncer2003]

I couldn't yesterday, but can today

So can I

Vince H.

[Catalina Park]

At 4.15 pm I couldn't see them. (got a 404 error when I tried to use the url direct)
At 7.45 pm they are back. Isn't Imageshack wonderful.

[Michael Ferner]

I thought he looked hot!

#4 is before the start of the 1903 GBT at Athy. Jenatzy in the middle, Edge on the right. Is the other one Edge's mechanic (whose name escapes me)?

Jenatzy? C'mon, Richard, you know better than that! It's the Chevallier René de Knyff, of course, and the look on his face is priceless!

On the left is Charles Jarrott, if I'm not mistaken.

[Michael Ferner]

First pic is Mr. and Mrs. Bill Vukovich. 1953.

Question remains, is that after a Sunday drive on his tractor back home in Fresno, or a Saturday afternoon over the bricks of Speedway, Indiana in the Rich Kids roadster? I go for the latter...

[Gary C]

No.3 is fab, but I have no idea on whowhatwhere. A sheer stab at no.6 - David Piper??

[Ray Bell]

Agreed...

It is a most evocative picture and probably the highlight of the whole 19.

[Stephen W]

All images Copyright, or from unmarked prints preserved within: The GP Library

DCN

Fraser Ewart in his Bentley Special at the 2009 Bo'ness Hill Climb Revival meeting. As you can see the entrance to the courtyard is pretty much unaltered.

[Alan Cox]

I think that photo no.6 is of the Piper 250GTO 3767 at the 1963 Nurburgring 1000kms, when it was co-driven by Ed Cantrell. 6th overall, 3rd in class. A lovely shot, Doug, with Mr Piper looking very calm and composed at the wheel, even though it looks as though the front suspension is hitting the bump stops, presumably having been airborne over one of the 'Ring's jumps.

[D-Type]

I couldn't yesterday, but can today

Ditto. Does anybody know why this happens sometimes?

[Vitesse2]

Jenatzy? C'mon, Richard, you know better than that!

I should, but my head's in 1939 right now .... and it had been a long day (and week!)

It's the Chevallier René de Knyff, of course, and the look on his face is priceless!

You're right, of course, Michael. De Knyff. But there's only one L in Chevalier ;)

[longhorn]

I think that 5 is before the 1964 Belgian GP. Neither Clark nor Gurney has grime on their faces, the helmets are clean and not insect splattered and Gurney would have had both pairs of goggles around his neck instead of the second pair over his right shoulder. The overalls look too clean as well. So before or after the driver's briefing?

[Phil Rainford]

What - or who - on earth is that? These pix drawn from the GP Library archives are open for identification, discussion, development, rubbishing...naturally, as you see fit. I meant to post these on Christmas Day, but as always...and in this case no thanks to Image Shack's revamp...running late...



5


All images Copyright, or from unmarked prints preserved within: The GP Library

DCN

Is that Mike Hailwood in the background


PAR

[longhorn]

Is that Mike Hailwood in the background


PAR

If it's 1964, Hailwood was bedridden in the UK with a throat infection and was a non starter in the Parnell Lotus-BRM.

[P.Dron]

It doesn't look much like Hailwood, anyway. But might that be Jean-Louis Trintignant with the white cap?

[Jim Thurman]

Question remains, is that after a Sunday drive on his tractor back home in Fresno, or a Saturday afternoon over the bricks of Speedway, Indiana in the Rich Kids roadster? I go for the latter...

Bill and wife Esther celebrating his win after the 1953 '500', run in the highest temperatures in race history.

"Sometimes it's good to be the king."

Edited by Jim Thurman, 11 January 2010 - 18:01.

[Phil Rainford]

If it's 1964, Hailwood was bedridden in the UK with a throat infection and was a non starter in the Parnell Lotus-BRM.

Many thanks ..... that blows my theory


PAR

[Doug Nye]

I think that 5 is before the 1964 Belgian GP. Neither Clark nor Gurney has grime on their faces, the helmets are clean and not insect splattered and Gurney would have had both pairs of goggles around his neck instead of the second pair over his right shoulder. The overalls look too clean as well. So before or after the driver's briefing?

Somewhat later than the drivers' briefing... Simon and ahe, good spot on Bo'ness and the Hurg.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 10 January 2010 - 18:52.

[JB Miltonian]

The picture of Clark and Gurney is included in a wonderful "vignette" of 13 shots by Geoff Goddard taken at the end of the 1964 Belgian GP, and published in the September 1964 issue of Road & Track. It starts with Gurney running out of fuel, Clark coasting to a stop thinking he had been classified in 3rd place, hearing over the loudspeaker that he had WON the race (featured photo) and riding off to Victory Lane on the back of Arundell's Lotus.

[Doug Nye]

The picture of Clark and Gurney is included in a wonderful "vignette" of 13 shots by Geoff Goddard taken at the end of the 1964 Belgian GP, and published in the September 1964 issue of Road & Track. It starts with Gurney running out of fuel, Clark coasting to a stop thinking he had been classified in 3rd place, hearing over the loudspeaker that he had WON the race (featured photo) and riding off to Victory Lane on the back of Arundell's Lotus.

Correct. Jimmy and Dan had both coasted to a halt on the rise through the super-elevated curve at Stavelot, ending the Masta Straight. The gradient can be sensed by studying the advertising hoarding levels in the background. Geoff was one of a small group of photographers who had been shooting from just behind a barrier at the exit to the corner. The marshal's tower in the background is the repaired version of the one whose ground floor section had been comprehensively torpedoed by Trev Taylor's works Lotus during practice the previous year.

Five days before Christmas, twenty years before this pic was taken, Kampfgrupper Peiper had advanced along the snow-covered road through the woodland in the background here, to enter Stavelot village away to the right. The American rearguard action which then held Stavelot bridge against Peiper's initial assault was one of the most significant of the 1944 Battle of the Bulge. History drips from the trees around there.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 10 January 2010 - 20:57.

[retriever]

If that image of Clark and Gurney was in colour it would just not have the same impact. Is it because they are subjects from what was a 'black and white' era or something more ethereal? Can someone explain more eloquently than I can the reasoning for this?

Ethereal - maybe the wrong word to use but I expect someone out there will pick me up on it if I am wrong!

Edited by retriever, 10 January 2010 - 23:25.

[Lotus23]

retriever, I think you're looking for "ethereal".

I agree with your sentiments.

[retriever]

retriever, I think you're looking for "ethereal".

I agree with your sentiments.

Corrected! Glad you spotted it and not the 'Spelling Police'.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
.....Five days before Christmas, twenty years before this pic was taken, Kampfgrupper Peiper had advanced along the snow-covered road through the woodland in the background here, to enter Stavelot village away to the right. The American rearguard action which then held Stavelot bridge against Peiper's initial assault was one of the most significant of the 1944 Battle of the Bulge. History drips from the trees around there.

And that's a nice little bit of it...

Reminds me of a conversation I had with John Harvey as we sat on an embankment about 30' back from the edge of the far end of Mulsanne Straight back in '81. Just looking at those forests around there, it was evident that it was the kind of country in which wars were fought, men died, another chapter in the interminable turmoil of the human race was played out to the distress of all.

The imagery broken, of course, by the rapid arrival of a WM Peugeot doing something the other side of 200mph, rapidly catching a 935 that was only capable of 190.

[Allen Brown]

What - or who - on earth is that? These pix drawn from the GP Library archives are open for identification, discussion, development, rubbishing...naturally, as you see fit. I meant to post these on Christmas Day, but as always...and in this case no thanks to Image Shack's revamp...running late...


7

All images Copyright, or from unmarked prints preserved within: The GP Library

DCN

This is indeed the Gulf team's garage, specifically it is an old and dirty Renault garage in the village of La Chartre-sur-le-Loire, conveniently just around the corner from the Hotel de France, 27 miles from the circuit.

John Horsman gave me the details after I showed him a similar GP Library picture taken by Geoff Goddard as part of a history I'm writing on one of the Mirage M6s.

Thanks Doug!

[Stephen W]

All images Copyright, or from unmarked prints preserved within: The GP Library

DCN

This is indeed the Gulf team's garage, specifically it is an old and dirty Renault garage in the village of La Chartre-sur-le-Loire, conveniently just around the corner from the Hotel de France, 27 miles from the circuit.

It looks like years of neglect have taken their toll! Cracking picture though.

[longhorn]

And that's a nice little bit of it...

Reminds me of a conversation I had with John Harvey as we sat on an embankment about 30' back from the edge of the far end of Mulsanne Straight back in '81. Just looking at those forests around there, it was evident that it was the kind of country in which wars were fought, men died, another chapter in the interminable turmoil of the human race was played out to the distress of all.

The imagery broken, of course, by the rapid arrival of a WM Peugeot doing something the other side of 200mph, rapidly catching a 935 that was only capable of 190.

I can relate to the second part. We were in the restaurant garden on the straight in 1988 standing behind a privet hedge. There were two gendarmes between the hedge and the armco, smoking and talking. One of the Jaguars caught two slower cars, one of which was overtaking the other, and sliced between them, without lifting, at around the 240mph mark. The marshall post had two large blue lamps which flashed to warn the slower cars - a blue flag at that time of night and at that speed would have been pointless. One of the most surreal experiences I've ever had and something I'll never forget. The gendarmes just carried on smoking and talking.............

[Ray Bell]

I never got to the restaurant garden...

I was thrown out for not knowing how to say 'Sil vous plait' when I tried to order breakfast.

Edited by Ray Bell, 11 January 2010 - 14:28.

[longhorn]

I never got to the restaurant garden...

I was thrown out for not knowing how to say 'Sil vous plait' when I tried to order breakfast.

Well if it helps at all, we tend to use "s'il vous plait", "por favor" or "per favore" far too often when in Europe. Something to do with our upbringing. The locals, by comparison, use it sparingly.

[Phil Rainford]

I can relate to the second part. We were in the restaurant garden on the straight in 1988 standing behind a privet hedge. There were two gendarmes between the hedge and the armco, smoking and talking. One of the Jaguars caught two slower cars, one of which was overtaking the other, and sliced between them, without lifting, at around the 240mph mark. The marshall post had two large blue lamps which flashed to warn the slower cars - a blue flag at that time of night and at that speed would have been pointless. One of the most surreal experiences I've ever had and something I'll never forget. The gendarmes just carried on smoking and talking.............

Not a lot changes. Friday before Le Mans 2008......




.... observing about 5,000 cars with GB stickers trying to wheelspin their way down the Mulsanne

PAR

[jdtreelines]

Have I been asleep? This thread started over a fortnight ago and I've only just seen it!

I'm too late to add anything really useful, but nobody yet has pointed out that picture 4 - Charles Jarrott, Rene de Knyff and S F Edge - can be found on page 25 of "Power and Glory" by William Court. I was sure I'd seen it before.

_{[Edit: That was my 30th post so I've now reached "Member" status. Only 66 years and I've finally joined the big boys! ]}

Edited by jdtreelines, 27 January 2011 - 22:06.

[Vitesse2]

Have I been asleep? This thread started over a fortnight ago and I've only just seen it!

Look again ;)