80 replies to this topic

[Repco von Brabham]

This is NOT Can-Am.. I swear!!

Is just our glorious former SP championship..,



God.., why you took us this???

Why God????

[Tony Matthews]

All's well that ends...

[Ray Bell]

Looks like quite a drama going on there, Repco...

The cars in that class, they seem to be mostly (or all?) V8s with front engines. Very practical I would think. What were the details? How long did they run like that?

And what's the movie all about? I don't have sound anyway, but I suspect that if I did the language would beat me anyway.

[David McKinney]

What's Spanish for "ham"?

[Ray Bell]

"jamón"...

But I don't know if it's used the same way as you want it to be.

Do these cars have live axles?

And the background cars are great. A 504 in the bunch identifies the era as being at least 1969 (so do the harnesses, I guess...) but there's one race car with a wing on it being towed into the paddock behind a '54 Plymouth.

The good old days!

[P.Dron]

There is some funny stuff going on with the pedals. Does he have the throttle pedal on the left? Look around 6:42. He seems to come off the brake and then rest his right foot on the floor. But later on, he seems to double de-clutch, using his left foot. Perhaps in the earlier scene, the film was reversed.

They don't make them like that any more.

[Geoff E]

Did the cars change direction in mid race? The "special ones" seem to "pan" in the opposite direction at 5m55s.

[David McKinney]

I too wondered what he was doing with the pedals
Didn't comment on it though - there were just too many funny bits to list
Like the team manager (?) and his irritating shades

Ray -
I suspect "ham" in its theatrical sense (or not) derives from "amateur"

[LittleChris]

Trying to identify the track - Rafaela possibly ?

[Pablo Vignone]

Trying to identify the track - Rafaela possibly ?

Yes that's it. Rafaela is the track, but there are some shots too at Paraná.

The year is 1970

Sport Prototipos series were held between 1969 and 1973, although the last year was not completed.

Too much expensive cars, too difficult to drive in the most complicated decade (from an economic point of view) of motor racing in Argentina. That's why went bust

That nº 7 car, the Chelco-Chevrolet, is driven by Nestor Garcia Veiga, who was champion in 1970.

The red spider car is a Berta-Tornado, driven by Luis Ruben Di Palma, who was to be champion in 1971 and 1972

The nº 4 car, the white one, is a Trueno Sprint-Chevrolet: his driver is Carlos Ruesch, who in 1971 was racing in European Formula 2.

[Greatest]

Check the shoes of the driver at 8 mins 48 secs...
And what do you think about the driver spinning his car at 9 mins 11 secs...
GREAT STUFF!!!

[jimclark]

(1) This is NOT Can-Am.. I swear!!

Is just our glorious former SP championship..,



(2) God.., why you took us this???

Why God????

(1) And if it were....that would be a bad thing????

(2) Never mind...got it... (Why did you take this ftom us?...??)

Edited by jimclark, 10 January 2010 - 20:08.

[Ray Bell]

Perhaps, Pablo and Repco, you can tell us more about the cars and the class?

Details like what the rules were, engine sizes etc.

[Frank S]

All's well that ends...

Is it a coincidence that "Sandro", who played the hissy-fit racer in the orange helmet, died on 4th January 2010?

[Frank S]

Looks like quite a drama going on there, Repco...

The cars in that class, they seem to be mostly (or all?) V8s with front engines. Very practical I would think. What were the details? How long did they run like that?

And what's the movie all about? I don't have sound anyway, but I suspect that if I did the language would beat me anyway.

From IMDb:


Sandro: a campy star, 23 March 2007
4/10
Author: Patricio García Martinez from Tucumán, Argentina

*** This review may contain spoilers ***

This is my favourite Sandro movie.

I must explain first for the non Argentinian readers that Sandro is a kind of gypsy elvis, just as elvis a lousy actor.

Well in this one he is a full-of-himself car racer, who sings of course, and is mean to people and specially girls.

He later has an accident that leaves him PSICOLOGICALLY BLIND AND PARALIZED and learns, with the help of two nuns, the meaning of life, of love and the little things, and he can walk again but he still can't see. Although his illness is psychological he has to be operated to recover the sight and goes trhough physical rehabilitation for walk again.

And he falls in love with one of the nuns but she leaves him before the eyes operation. She leaves him because, even after learning the meaning of love, he is still annoying. Then there is a extraordinary press conference scene where he finally breaks down for the sadness of loosing the nuns love and he has to be taken out of the room.

And it goes o and on but this is a campy funny piece and Sandro is amazingly over the edge.

[Repco von Brabham]

Perhaps, Pablo and Repco, you can tell us more about the cars and the class?

Details like what the rules were, engine sizes etc.

Dear "Ray Bell":
You can find all the the replies HERE:

http://forums.autosp...440entry3788440

Have patient, listen and learn.... I lived all this era.

Kind regards

[Ray Bell]

Happy to display patience, and love to learn about these exciting looking cars...

However:

Originally posted by Repco von Brabham
BUT., remember, in 1972 the new regulations, the engines (for the rear-engine cars) was limited to 3.0 Litres, (188 cune inch), for the rear-engine cars., (but not in the South-Am Cup races).

From that thread it seems that rear engined cars were allowed from 1971, with a 289 cubic inch limit (which would admit 283 Chevrolet and 273 Dodge engines as well as the 289 Ford). Then in 1972 they were restricted to 3.0 litres.

So, presumably, until 1970 the rules required front engined cars with an unspecified limit?

Clearly in the movie they are V8s in most cars. One would assume that 327s and 289s and 318s were used... is that right? Or was there a limit on them too?

What about chassis regulations? These look like the kind of cars I'd like to see, affordable and fast, easy to maintain. What a shame we never had a class for them!

[Pablo Vignone]

Is it a coincidence that "Sandro", who played the hissy-fit racer in the orange helmet, died on 4th January 2010?

It is not. It was like the Pope's death here. The TV channels are showing again and again all his movies. This one, "Siempre te amaré" (I will love you forever) was made in an era when motor racing was extremely popular in this country. You have to think that, merely three or four months after the shooting at Rafaela, USAC cars were racing there.

As for the rules, the constructors were allowed to use up to four litres engines in front of the driver, three litres behind. Sport Prototipos was a type of car born from the extremely closed-circuit design ideas who plagued the Turismo Carretera series between 1967 and 1968. In 1969 the series split up in two: TC were confined again to the open roads and SP raced only in race tracks.

The first three liter car I remind was the Avante-Tornado, in 1970, driven by Jorge Omar del Rio, who partnered Alain De Cadenet at Brands Hatch for the 1000 Km. Then, in 1971, Berta showed his own cars, for Luis Di Palma and Emilio Bertolini, also with Tornado engines.

Races were short, in fact, and normally deciden on aggregated times.

There weren't cheap cars. In 1970, the champion was Garcia Veiga, a Chevrolet works driver. In 1971 and 1972, Di Palma has the support of IKA-Renault. The chasm between official and private drivers got bigger and bigger. 1972 was a poor year in terms of entries and the series never got to the end of 1973. By then, the TC series was growing again, took the support of the works teams because was esentially cheaper -and less challenging for drivers- and the writing was on the wall.

If you see again the cuts, you will see four cars racing in a group for the script. Those cars were property of another ex-De Cadenet co-driver, Carlos Pairetti, who tried to race at Indianapolis that year of 1970 and then took part of the USAC Rafaela 300. Pairetti leased the cars to Sandro and his manager, and then, with the advice of them, produced his own racing movie, "Piloto de pruebas" ("Test driver") that was a commercial success in Latin and Central America (as each Sandro movie also was).

In the movie you can see footage of the 1971 Buenos Aires 1.000 Km and the disgraceful, tragic shunt which caused the death of Ignazio Giunti.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Pablo Vignone
.....As for the rules, the constructors were allowed to use up to four litres engines in front of the driver, three litres behind. Sport Prototipos was a type of car born from the extremely closed-circuit design ideas who plagued the Turismo Carretera series between 1967 and 1968. In 1969 the series split up in two: TC were confined again to the open roads and SP raced only in race tracks.....

From Repco von's previous comments, Pablo, I deduce you are speaking of the 1972 rules here?

As I see a lot of V8 engines among the cars pictured, I'm obliged to conclude that they were larger than four litres. The only sub-4-litre V8s of the time were the Esplanada engines and the Daimler SP250 units, which I wouldn't expect to be very common in South America. The Esplanadas were, of course, but at only 2.5 litres and with such a long stroke design they wouldn't be a real powerhouse either. Much as I love the concept of that engine and the story behind it.

So presumably there was a limit higher than four litres for the front engined cars of 1970?

And what engines came into play when the 3-litre rear engine limit was applied?

[Pablo Vignone]

Ray, the rules were enforced from 1969 onwards...

I'm afraid neither I am a technician nor I have the facts close to me at this moment. But from what I recall, the 3 liters engines were used in TC from 1970 to reduce speeds in open roads (and in fact, in that first year, the 2.0 liters Fiat 1500 coupe and Peugeot 404 were competitive against 3.0 Torinos). The race engines in Argentina were all derived from mass production. You know, Oreste Berta build his own V8, but he can't put it to race in SP in Argentina because rules didn't allowed it.

In 1972, José Miguel Herceg, the boss of the Ford works team in TC, claimed the engines (6 cylinders, not V8) were producing 230 HP. I guess the 1972 Berta Tornado engines were producing near 300 HP.

In 1969 it was cheaper and logic to use the configuration "4.0 liters - front engine " and more powerful too. Only next year some people starting trying the other way, but no one has the resources of Berta, with the support of IKA-Renault.

In 1971, General Motors decided to change sides from SP (of whiche they were champions) to TC, because it was perecived as more popular and less expensive. They tried the 3.0 liters SP route in 1972, producing the Chelco III-Chevrolet, and the car won its second race, but then an accident carrying the car in a trailer to the next race destroyed completely the Chelco. So, that was the end.

In 1971, also, De Cadenet sold his McLaren, of which there were produce three (I guess) copies which you have seen in this topic. The original car went to Europe AFAIK. Nasif Estefano and Carlos Pairetti raced two of those three with works Ford engines. Yes, I understand it used V8 engines which not were admitted in TC. Estefano won one race, and that was it. Ford adventure in SP ended there.

Chrysler has a works team only in 1969. It wasn't lucky.

I will search for some technical information regarding engines.

[Ray Bell]

Clearly then it was all production-based engines...

Did people make special cylinder heads? Am I wrong in thinking all those cars in the movie were V8s?

If so, were they from before 1969?

You see the dilemna, don't you? To run a V8 under 4-litres would require a destroked 265/283 if Chevrolet, 273 if Chrysler or one I'd forgotten, the 221 Ford. Maybe many had this engine? There was also a 241 Chrysler Hemi from the fifties, but it was very heavy.

This is all of great interest to me and I hope you can find further information. Or someone who knows more to post what they know. Thanks for the information so far provided.

[Repco von Brabham]

Happy to display patience, and love to learn about these exciting looking cars...

However:



From that thread it seems that rear engined cars were allowed from 1971, with a 289 cubic inch limit (which would admit 283 Chevrolet and 273 Dodge engines as well as the 289 Ford). Then in 1972 they were restricted to 3.0 litres.

So, presumably, until 1970 the rules required front engined cars with an unspecified limit?

Clearly in the movie they are V8s in most cars. One would assume that 327s and 289s and 318s were used... is that right? Or was there a limit on them too?

What about chassis regulations? These look like the kind of cars I'd like to see, affordable and fast, easy to maintain. What a shame we never had a class for them!

Again..,

In 1972, the cubic capacity was limited to 3.0 litres for the cars with rear engines.,

For example, the Berta's car in 1972 began to use the Tornado "little" named "Tornado 300" (3,0 liters) and in the magazine "Automundo" February 1972, Oreste Berta complains as the new regulations show be less weigth for the rear engines cars, because (he say) the 3.0 engines have only 310 HP, front the 370 HP of the 4.0 litres engines..,

My godfather, Hector Plano, racing in 1971 and 1972 with a beautiful Gentile-Chevrolet 4.0 litres, (with front engine)

Also, this same year, was created a new category with 2.0 litres engines, (Fiat and Peugeot engines) in a try for saved the SP series, when in 1972 the series began to sunk...,
(see the picture of Avante-Peugeot in the Mc Laren topic)

Regards

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, I've got that... 1972 it was limited that way...

But I'm asking about what the rules were prior to 1971. Please read my previous post about the apparent engines in the movie clip.

[Pablo Vignone]

I expect tomorrow to have some more facts. It's an interesting topic. I will know where to ask

[Ray Bell]

Thank you Pablo...

And if there are photos of front engined or Peugeot powered cars partially dismantled it would be great too!

Edited by Ray Bell, 12 January 2010 - 02:20.

[Pablo Vignone]

Thank you Pablo...

And if there are photos of front engined or Peugeot powered cars partially dismantled it would be great too!

A front engined 1969 Huayra Ford, recently restored.

http://foro.enfierra...o-pronello.html

Carlos Reutemann drove it that year.

[jj2728]

man, them's some wild looking cars.....

[Ray Bell]

Yeah... aren't they great?

I'm sitting here waiting for those photos to download, obviously a Ford V8 in this one. 260? 289? 302? maybe even a 221?

And they're not standard heads, no way! I don't know if they're Gurney-Weslake heads either, but maybe somebody has put them on more recently?

Edited by Ray Bell, 12 January 2010 - 06:40.

[Pablo Vignone]

Yeah... aren't they great?

I'm sitting here waiting for those photos to download, obviously a Ford V8 in this one. 260? 289? 302? maybe even a 221?

And they're not standard heads, no way! I don't know if they're Gurney-Weslake heads either, but maybe somebody has put them on more recently?

¿Gurney-Weslake heads? Not at all!

[Pablo Vignone]

I have been misleaded: in 1971, I can confirm, even rear-engined cars had 4.0 litres engines... the same as front-engined ones.

Only the Fords were V8s. Tornado, Chevrolet 250 and Dodge (Slant Six?) were 6 cylinders in line.

Displacement:
Tornado: 3.950 cc
Ford: 3.940 cc
Dodge: 3.950 cc
Chevrolet: 3.950 cc

The Tornado engine (233?) was the only one with OHC.

Power (extracted from "Corsa" nº 218, 23/6/1970)

Ford V8: 354 HP at 6.700 rpm
Tornado: 310 HP at 5.400 rpm
Dodge: 315 HP at 6.000 rpm
Chevrolet 250: not revealed.

The figure quoted for the Tornado was not for the Berta-prepared engine, which was estimated in 335 HP.

With the Ford V8 and his "fake" McLaren M8D, Carlos Pairetti reached 283,6 km/h of maximum speed, and his lap record for the Rafaela oval was 234,697 km/h.

Estefano drove a "fake" McLaren M8C and his tuner Ferrea claimed the V8 had 360 HP.

That's all I have... for today

[Ray Bell]

That Tornado engine was well-received in South America, but nobody anywhere in the world seems to have ever done anything with it...

Thanks for the update, Pablo.

What I'm really hoping is that some time soon you'll get some information about the large number of front-engined cars before 1971. In the movie it does seem that most of them are V8s.

[Pablo Vignone]

That Tornado engine was well-received in South America, but nobody anywhere in the world seems to have ever done anything with it...

Thanks for the update, Pablo.

What I'm really hoping is that some time soon you'll get some information about the large number of front-engined cars before 1971. In the movie it does seem that most of them are V8s.

Ray, the only V8 in 1970 were the Fords.

Dodge developed a V8 in 1971 but used it mainly in Mecanica Argentina Formula 1. It won the 1972 series with Angel Monguzzi and the 1976 and 1977 with José Pedro Passadore.

It seems that the Tornado (AMC) engine was used by Dave Strickland in USAC racing in 1971, a turbocharged unit. Could it be possible?

[Ray Bell]

I don't know, I never heard of that, I might ask Buford if he knows... though Jim Thurman should have some idea...

What about the cars prior to 1970 then? Like I've said so many times, the movie shows what appears to be almost a totally V8 field. What were the rules and what engines were used those days?

[Pablo Vignone]

I don't know, I never heard of that, I might ask Buford if he knows... though Jim Thurman should have some idea...

What about the cars prior to 1970 then? Like I've said so many times, the movie shows what appears to be almost a totally V8 field. What were the rules and what engines were used those days?

Ray, I repeat once again: if you see V8 cars, there were only Fords. Maybe there is an explanation. In the movie you see real stuff (Rafaela 1970) and staged stuff (shot in Parana, I thought, or maybe in Cordoba).

For the scenes of the movie, they used four cars (are they those you are pointing?) all belonging to Carlos Pairetti, who were contracted by Ford in 1970, the year the film was made.

Were those engines that you are talking of?

[Ray Bell]

There were many more than four cars seen in the movie...

I don't recall seeing any that didn't have inlet trumpets sticking up through the centre of the engine cover. Whether they were slower cars, the main cars or whatever, all seemed to be V8s.

The reason these cars appeal to me is their inherent apparent simplicity. This is why I'd like to know what the rules were.

[Repco von Brabham]

I have been misleaded: in 1971, I can confirm, even rear-engined cars had 4.0 litres engines... the same as front-engined ones.

Only the Fords were V8s. Tornado, Chevrolet 250 and Dodge (Slant Six?) were 6 cylinders in line.

Displacement:
Tornado: 3.950 cc
Ford: 3.940 cc
Dodge: 3.950 cc
Chevrolet: 3.950 cc

The Tornado engine (233?) was the only one with OHC.

Power (extracted from "Corsa" nº 218, 23/6/1970)

Ford V8: 354 HP at 6.700 rpm
Tornado: 310 HP at 5.400 rpm
Dodge: 315 HP at 6.000 rpm
Chevrolet 250: not revealed.

Not so fast., you can't take all the gossips edited in the Corsa of this times.


In the Article in a "Automundo" magazine, April 1971, Oreste Berta recognised in a personal reportage 370 HP at 6800 Rpm in his Berta LR-Tornado of Luis Di Palma.,

And if a argentine tunner recognise 370 HP, you must add 15 HP to this number.. , sadly but is the rigth true.,

The better Chevrolet engine was the Ricardo Josephs's engines, (Chelco I and II), this engines had im order of 345-350 HP., but the main virtue in the Chevrolet was a realiabity and the "eslasticity" , and the magnificent torque of them.,
In the Mecánica Fórmula 1 Nacional, the Chevrolet 4.0 of my father had 360 hp, really and robust 360 HP at 7700 Rpm., the engine was tunned by Toto Fangio, the brother of the great Juan Fangio.

Now, check this:

1971 - The Baufer-Chevrolet 4.0 litres ex Jorge Cupeiro, was sold to Brazilian driver Pedro De Lamare, after the race "200 Km do Interlagos",
because the brazilians are much impressive by the Argentinians self made cars.,




Jump to 1972:
The new regulations this year, make a new 2.0 liters class, in a try for rescue the SP series from the sink.,
In the picture, one beautiful Avante-Peugeot car, the engine was from Peugeot 504 car, with two Weber 45-45 carburettors and new head of cilynders, had 180 HP...,




Return to 1969, the first year:
64.000 spectators look the start of the "300 Km de Buenos Aires", all the cars had front-engines!

Carlos Reutemann (Huayra-Ford V8) and Eduardo Copello (Numa II-Tornado) taken the first places.,




And now, again in 1972:
This Berta LR have a new Berta V8 3.0 litres engine, twin cams overhead and 32 valves, with Bosch fuel injection., 420 HP at 10.000 Rpm.,
The picture was taked in the first race of "Sud-Am Cup" in Buenos Aires, the car make the pole broken the récord of the track, but in the grid the marshalls race waiting for the appear of the brazilian Pedro de Lamare's car, and that long wait make BOIL the waters in the Berta V8 radiators... the engine explode in the second lap....




Is not Can-Am., I SWEAR, that is NOT.......

Kind regards

Edited by Repco von Brabham, 13 January 2010 - 00:48.

[Ray Bell]

I guess the cylinder head on the Peugeot engine was the TI fuel injection head?

Is the Chevrolet in the Baufer a six or a V8?

[Repco von Brabham]

I guess the cylinder head on the Peugeot engine was the TI fuel injection head?

Is the Chevrolet in the Baufer a six or a V8?

Hi there!!

About the Peugeots... is NOT., the cilynders heads was 100% makes in Argentina, by the legendary tunner Rubén "******" Benavídez, and the engine set-up by the Guillermo Billy team.., the same team that put in race the Peugeots 504 in the Argentine Touring "Turismo Nacional", some times we need to talk about those legendary Turismo Nacional series of the seventies...,

The Peugeouts in SP series used the Webers 45/45 DCNF., never had the injecction fuel.

All the Chevrolets engines, while in SP series when in F1 Nacional and TC.. was all six cilynders, and builded by the factory General Motors in San Martin town., don't not exist in Argentina the Chevy engine V8.,




Copa Sud-Am 1971- First Round, Buenos Aires - (Sud-Am Cup)

And remarkable issue... the Berta-Tornado made in Argentina, defeat by great hiding to the sofisticated Porche 908 and Lola T70.,

CHECK THIS:

Edited by Repco von Brabham, 14 January 2010 - 02:31.

[Pablo Vignone]

I guess the cylinder head on the Peugeot engine was the TI fuel injection head?

Is the Chevrolet in the Baufer a six or a V8?

Some facts I found about Peugeot engines: this one, prepared by Roberto Díaz for Jurgen Nathan, developed 180 HP. Two Weber carburettors.

The 4.0 liters rear-engined cars had a minimum weight of 800 kg; the 2.0 liters, only 575 kg.

The 1969 and 1970 front engined cars were at least 1.000 kg.

[Ray Bell]

Just to explain here, the 'fuel injection head' I spoke of is often used with Weber carburettors...

It's used because it has separate inlet ports while the regular heads don't.

With that head available, I would doubt anyone would make a special head for these engines. And they were available from when the first 504 engines arrived.

[Pablo Vignone]

From I was talking with some people, in 1969, Sport Prototypes allowed mass-production engines, with at least 500 produced the last year in Argentina. Only Ford has a V8 engine, with was used not in stock cars but in pick-ups (F100) and trucks.

The other engines in use were de Dodge Slant Six, the Chevrolet 250 and the AMC Tornado 233, all of them 6 cylinders in line.

The minimum height of the cars was 1,25 meters, which explains the bulbous tops of some of the cars. That's for 1969; in 1970, open-top cars (as the front engined Berta seen in the movie) were allowed.

Minimum weight: 1.000 kg.

In 1969 the same car can compete in TC and SP, but it had to hace a series-derived chassis and at least 1.230 kg

[Ray Bell]

What a shame they didn't keep the 1970 rules...

Thanks for that, Pablo, it's now starting to make more sense. Minimum numbers of that engine sold in Argentina in a year, though you say in the last year? That means that no older engines can compete even if they sold 10,000 in a year in 1966 or 1967?

Did anyone ever run the Esplanada V8?

[Pablo Vignone]

What a shame they didn't keep the 1970 rules...

Thanks for that, Pablo, it's now starting to make more sense. Minimum numbers of that engine sold in Argentina in a year, though you say in the last year? That means that no older engines can compete even if they sold 10,000 in a year in 1966 or 1967?

Did anyone ever run the Esplanada V8?

Sorry, "last year" I mean the year before.

Nope, only the V8 Ford. How many cubic inches had it, do you know?

Let me tell you that I found a report from 1970 telling there were a 14 car average grid that year . The figure was reduced even for 1971. In 1972, the grid were a little bit growing because SP got subsisized by YPF (the national oil company) but, what happened then? The leader of the ASN was the president of the Atlético Rafaela, the club owner of the oval Rafaela track. They decided to split the money between SP and Mecanica Argentina Formula 1 (MAF1), for the last was the one they need to held the Rafaela 500 Miles, the biggest race in that track.

As a result, the split money did no good for anybody. SP died in 1973; Rafaela 500 Miles (born in 1926), in 1977; MAF1, in 1979.

[Repco von Brabham]

Sorry, "last year" I mean the year before.

Nope, only the V8 Ford. How many cubic inches had it, do you know?

Let me tell you that I found a report from 1970 telling there were a 14 car average grid that year . The figure was reduced even for 1971. In 1972, the grid were a little bit growing because SP got subsisized by YPF (the national oil company) but, what happened then? The leader of the ASN was the president of the Atlético Rafaela, the club owner of the oval Rafaela track. They decided to split the money between SP and Mecanica Argentina Formula 1 (MAF1), for the last was the one they need to held the Rafaela 500 Miles, the biggest race in that track.

As a result, the split money did no good for anybody. SP died in 1973; Rafaela 500 Miles (born in 1926), in 1977; MAF1, in 1979.

....And we must add to the Pablo's list, the corrupt pressures maked by the "Turismo Carretera" over the clubs that organized SP races., and over the radios programmes, menaced with retire his publicitaries announcement of the magazines.., and all many nasty things more..,

I had 16 years old in this times, I live in my our flesh all the stuff... my uncle Enrique was engineer in the Hector Plano's team.,
(Plano droved a beautiful Gentile-Chevrolet Spyder..)


Regards

[Ray Bell]

If you can dig up more photos, particularly 'under the skin,' I'm just waiting for them...

Great looking cars, they seem very practical.

[Pablo Vignone]

If you can dig up more photos, particularly 'under the skin,' I'm just waiting for them...

Great looking cars, they seem very practical.

Take a look at these:

http://www.forotcu.c...php?topic=622.0

[Ray Bell]

I've opened that page, but with my slow connection it will be a while before I view all the pics...

Thanks again for all of this.

[Pablo Vignone]

And these:

http://sportprototipo.blogspot.com/

[Ray Bell]

They're all great pics, Pablo, thank you!

I especially like the start photo at the bottom of locodeltoro's post in the forum. I understand that the 12-port Chevrolet heads were unique to South America too, which certainly helped people there put triple Webers on those engines.

Anything more that can show us chassis details, rear suspensions etc? Here I mean of the front engined cars, I know what McLaren's look like. Perhaps there's a website with information about the Berta cars too?

[Lee Nicolle]

They're all great pics, Pablo, thank you!

I especially like the start photo at the bottom of locodeltoro's post in the forum. I understand that the 12-port Chevrolet heads were unique to South America too, which certainly helped people there put triple Webers on those engines.

Anything more that can show us chassis details, rear suspensions etc? Here I mean of the front engined cars, I know what McLaren's look like. Perhaps there's a website with information about the Berta cars too?

Ray the 252-292 Chev truck engines were 12 port and have been around since the late 60s. Look a bit like a big Holden 6 and use a lot of small block bits internally.
There was one used in a Sprintcar here in the 80s with some success though they are quite heavy.