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Ferrari should be giving Hayden tests, not Rossi


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#1 juicy sushi

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 01:25

Allegedly he dusted Massa in a kart race at Wroom...

http://www.superbike...n/100115-69.htm

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#2 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 01:42

Why? It's not like Hayden or Rossi are going to be crossing over any time soon, is it?

#3 Lazarus II

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 01:45

Pay them enough and they'd whistle dixie while on a unicycle.



#4 juicy sushi

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 02:15

^ exactly. Rossi hasn't been shy about indicating he'll go race on 4 wheels (likely rally) post MotoGP. It's really only a question of when. Nicky hasn't indicated he'd do that, but if he showed the goods, and was offered something which interested him, he'd likely do it. The man loves racing.

#5 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 02:26

Yeah, but Ferrari is Italian. Valentino Rossi is Italian. Nicky Hayden is American.

As neither rider is likely to make the transition from bikes to cars, it's all a publicity thing.

#6 Lazarus II

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 02:43

Yeah, but Ferrari is Italian. Valentino Rossi is Italian. Nicky Hayden is American.

As neither rider is likely to make the transition from bikes to cars, it's all a publicity thing.

And Ferrari needs America. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but I would think it would be Ferrari's dream to have a competitive American driver that they could use. Maybe one day....(again)

#7 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 03:15

I'm not saying it is going to happen, but I would think it would be Ferrari's dream to have a competitive American driver that they could use.

Well, unless that driver is going to be Nicky Hayden, there's no need for them to give him tests instead of Valentino Rossi.

#8 Lazarus II

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 03:32

Well, unless that driver is going to be Nicky Hayden, there's no need for them to give him tests instead of Valentino Rossi.

I guess if he's shown that much better car (kart) control than Alonso, Massa, and Rossi then I guess they should. It wouldn't be the strangest thing ever done by Ferrari or any other F1 team for that matter.

#9 BiH

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 04:14

quick someone tell USF1 to sign nicky hayden.



come on the race is on snow and its meant to be fun event.

#10 beanoid

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 04:46

Yeah, but Ferrari is Italian. Valentino Rossi is Italian. Nicky Hayden is American.

As neither rider is likely to make the transition from bikes to cars, it's all a publicity thing.


Fiat owns Ferrari. Fiat is Yamaha's title sponsor in GP. That's why he gets to drive the Ferrari every time he wins a championship--it's Fiat's way of thanking him.

#11 umapathypon

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 05:24

Allegedly he dusted Massa in a kart race at Wroom...

http://www.superbike...n/100115-69.htm

The race also had Alonso in it. Seems like binned it in the kart race and was 4th in the car race(which Massa won,btw).

#12 Flexa

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 05:24

Hayden won the karts competition with Felipe in 2nd.

Massa won the cars competition with Hayden in 2nd.

Edited by Flexa, 16 January 2010 - 05:27.


#13 Simon Says

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 06:27

Hayden won the karts competition with Felipe in 2nd.

Massa won the cars competition with Hayden in 2nd.


Not bad, I'd say Ferrari should definetly give him a test in a Ferrari to see how fast he is in F1 cars. :p

#14 Simon Says

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 06:29

quick someone tell USF1 to sign nicky hayden.



come on the race is on snow and its meant to be fun event.


So what, you think Massa and Alonso were drunk and not doing their best? :p I'm sure they wanted to win the race.

#15 DOF_power

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 10:48

Kart is an indication of what ?!
Piquet Jr. won kart race and was GP2 runner-up only to prove he's not of any use in F1 other then crashing both intentionally and unintentionally.
And let's not forget Heikki "useful only a second fiddle" Kova .

#16 DCD

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:37

I surely would like to see Hayden racing a F1 car.

I believe he is underestimated by some people and needs to have his world champion status recognized. He won even Rossi. But everyone says: "Because Rossi was worried about racing in F1... blah blah blah". But he won Rossi, just like Casey.

Both Ducati guys deserve a chance to put their asses in the Italian most famous F1 car, just like they putting on the Italian most famous GP Bike.

#17 THE "driverider"

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 12:14

It's great that Dudu was in that race too, is he a racing driver in the junior formulae or does he not wish to follow in brother into motorsport?

#18 DCD

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 12:26

It's great that Dudu was in that race too, is he a racing driver in the junior formulae or does he not wish to follow in brother into motorsport?


He races in Brazilian minor Stock Car championship, the Pickup Racing. And I will believe he's going also to race in the Trofeo Linea, a competiton created by Felipe with FIAT support in Brazil.

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#19 Just waiting

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 16:20

My bet is that Hayden will not be getting any F1 tests anytime soon

As to certain comparisons to HK and so forth, the difference is that hayden did win a championship against Rossi, in a series where there is a premium on the ability of the operator, not the wind tunnel, phd areo types and engineers, et al

I think it is clear that some have an immediate, natural talent for an F1 car..Kimi immediately comes to mind (indeed he seems to have been spoiled by his natural talent such that working at it, is not something he wants to do).........some need to work at it before they "get it"......and some never get it no matter how hard they try(yes, Nelson Jr that b u)....

Rossi seems to have demonstrated that immediate ability in an F1 car and Hayden might have it as well. I think one factor is the ability to judge speed in and through corners (necessary to be consistent in lap times), deal with the horspower issues, deal with limited visibility, and have a feel for traction.

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#20 Anomnader

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 16:35

In a time when testing is restricted its strange to be willing to lose that time for PR events.

If he wants to drive a Ferrari F1 car surly a F2008 would be good enough.

#21 Risil

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 13:12

Kart race was on ice. Out of all the participants, Nicky's the only one with significant experience on looser, slipperier surfaces than asphalt. In fact, he's something of a dirt-tracking legend back in the States.

#22 Jackmancer

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 18:40

Agree with most above. Rossi is part of the Fiat family, so is Ferrari. Besides, it's gonna cost a couple of tyres and some fuel. What's the big deal.

#23 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 05:18

this is crazy. I suppose if Alonso won a bicycle race he should go test a gp bike. Its just for fun.

#24 juicy sushi

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 11:44

Kart race was on ice. Out of all the participants, Nicky's the only one with significant experience on looser, slipperier surfaces than asphalt. In fact, he's something of a dirt-tracking legend back in the States.

I was waiting for someone to have the common sense to point that out, thanks Risil.

The post was light-hearted in intent, sadly some lack the sense to appreciate that. Still, yes, it's only a kart race, and yes, it's on ice, but a redneck kid from Kentucky did finish first, and Rossi couldn't. Perhaps Marlboro should pull some strings...

#25 Hairpin

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 11:49

I was waiting for someone to have the common sense to point that out, thanks Risil.

The post was light-hearted in intent, sadly some lack the sense to appreciate that. Still, yes, it's only a kart race, and yes, it's on ice, but a redneck kid from Kentucky did finish first, and Rossi couldn't. Perhaps Marlboro should pull some strings...

Was Rossi even there? I think he will only count as 'beaten' if he actually competed. Or at least was offered to compete.

#26 Risil

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 11:57

I was waiting for someone to have the common sense to point that out, thanks Risil.

The post was light-hearted in intent, sadly some lack the sense to appreciate that. Still, yes, it's only a kart race, and yes, it's on ice, but a redneck kid from Kentucky did finish first, and Rossi couldn't. Perhaps Marlboro should pull some strings...


Heh, yes. But I think it's often underestimated exactly how good Nicky is. Admittedly, he doesn't have the victories to put him on a level with today's top guys, but some consideration has to go to the teams and the state of GP racing for that. If he'd been born twenty years earlier no doubt he'd have been battling for championships with Lawson, Schwantz, Rainey and pals.

#27 Avastrol

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 12:55

Heh, yes. But I think it's often underestimated exactly how good Nicky is. Admittedly, he doesn't have the victories to put him on a level with today's top guys, but some consideration has to go to the teams and the state of GP racing for that. If he'd been born twenty years earlier no doubt he'd have been battling for championships with Lawson, Schwantz, Rainey and pals.


Honda certainly hasn't helped either, ever since their golden boy protruded onto the scene he started getting phased out of the team. Once you lose your team's support then it's over, which is strange for him since he's a good guy, quite fast, a perfect team player and PR spokesperson.

#28 Lazarus II

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:40

this is crazy. I suppose if Alonso won a bicycle race he should go test a gp bike. Its just for fun.

If Hayden won a soapbox derby you may have a point....but, it wasn't a soapbox derby car now was it?

A bicycle is powered by the rider, and motorcycle is powered by a motor, hence the name motorcycle. They really are two very different things and probably why no one has gone in search of Lance Armstrong to be a MotoGP rider.

Now on the other hand a kart and a car share many similarities. I hope you can see them on your own.

The fact is that the ONLY WAY Alonso would beat Hayden on a MotoGP bike is if Hayden fell off, but Hayden did in fact beat Alonso in a car and a kart.

#29 Avastrol

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 16:07

I speak without any prior knowledge, but it seems to me that inherently, driving a car relatively fast is a more transferable skill than riding a motorcycle relatively fast. Schumi being 5 seconds off a 1:33 race lap in Casey's Ducati in the 2007 Valencia GP was fast. It was a big deal, an eye-opener.

Whereas with Rossi in the Ferrari, banging in a 58.xxx Fiorano lap was the "very good" scenario, the time being only a shade over a second slower than Schumi's time in the same car (IIRC, the 248F1) in the same weekend (again, IIRC).

With what I've seen with Nicky, he seems to do well in unusual, changeable conditions. He's a dirtbike rider. He's always in the sharp end during wet free practice sessions, even during the first half of 09 in the abominable Ducati. The kart race was on ice. The car race seems to have been held in the dirt.

I don't know myself if riding the rough stuff translates well into the stupidly specific discipline that is 21st century F1 (4 wheels, tarmac, closed circuit, gripping the road instead of drifting). I suspect not - he won't be as fast as Valentino in F1. Which seems to contradict what I said earlier that driving a car relatively fast is easier to an outsider than riding a bike fast, but bleh, modern F1 cars seem too much like 800ccs nowadays (hooray, another somewhat uninformed, gut-feel conclusion). I think he'll do better in rallies.

#30 Hypnotise

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 16:13

Oh please its karting on ice it means absolutley nothing,It is more for the one who can stay on track and find a nice and careful pace

#31 Risil

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 16:16

I speak without any prior knowledge, but it seems to me that inherently, driving a car relatively fast is a more transferable skill than riding a motorcycle relatively fast. Schumi being 5 seconds off a 1:33 race lap in Casey's Ducati in the 2007 Valencia GP was fast. It was a big deal, an eye-opener.

Whereas with Rossi in the Ferrari, banging in a 58.xxx Fiorano lap was the "very good" scenario, the time being only a shade over a second slower than Schumi's time in the same car (IIRC, the 248F1) in the same weekend (again, IIRC).

With what I've seen with Nicky, he seems to do well in unusual, changeable conditions. He's a dirtbike rider. He's always in the sharp end during wet free practice sessions, even during the first half of 09 in the abominable Ducati. The kart race was on ice. The car race seems to have been held in the dirt.

I don't know myself if riding the rough stuff translates well into the stupidly specific discipline that is 21st century F1 (4 wheels, tarmac, closed circuit, gripping the road instead of drifting). I suspect not - he won't be as fast as Valentino in F1. Which seems to contradict what I said earlier that driving a car relatively fast is easier to an outsider than riding a bike fast, but bleh, modern F1 cars seem too much like 800ccs nowadays (hooray, another somewhat uninformed, gut-feel conclusion). I think he'll do better in rallies.


Yes, ultimately it's another nail in the coffin for F1 as the 'pinnacle of motor sports', unless you define 'pinnacle' as 'most full of corruption, scandal and grandiloquence.' Possibly the 'Vatican of motor sports' would be a better term.

#32 FlatOverCrest

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 16:22

As neither rider is likely to make the transition from bikes to cars, it's all a publicity thing.


Actually Rossi is pretty useful in a Rally car and I would expect him to swich to rallying when he is done with MotoGP.

#33 Avastrol

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 16:31

Yes, ultimately it's another nail in the coffin for F1 as the 'pinnacle of motor sports', unless you define 'pinnacle' as 'most full of corruption, scandal and grandiloquence.' Possibly the 'Vatican of motor sports' would be a better term.


I agree with your view, although less cynically. (21st century) F1 is now the co-pinnacle of motorsports along with whatever other motorsport that high barriers to entry to F1 (e.g. if you're in this sport, you won't be able to get into F1 easily), and high barriers to exit out of F1 (if you're in F1, you won't be getting into this easily).

An interesting parallel would be WSBK and MotoGP. Neither sport has its competitors be a champion in both. However, WSBK has the unfortunate honor of having its champs cross over and not achieve much success, while MotoGP folks are savvy enough not to do it. Of course, the recent exploits of Spies wetting his feet in MotoGP and Simoncelli dancing in the podium in his first race with the WSBK regulars *might* give credence to MotoGP over SBK as the "harder to get into if you're outside it, easier to go somewhere else if you're inside it" arbitrary condition for being the pinnable brought into the discussion by me.

Gone are the days when racers can afford to dabble in many categories and be podium runners in most of them. Rossi could've done the MASSIVE crossover, but winning more titles must've been too good to pass up. Kimi did, but then he's crazy enough in the first place, and definitely helped by the massive pickle Ferrari dangled in front of him.

#34 Hippo

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 20:14

Actually I believe most MotoGP riders would do pretty good in any race car. I rate them pretty high personally.

#35 Jackmancer

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:11

Actually I believe most MotoGP riders would do pretty good in any race car. I rate them pretty high personally.


Would love to see Ben Spies in a F1 car :)

#36 WebBerK

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:43

Kart race was on ice. Out of all the participants, Nicky's the only one with significant experience on looser, slipperier surfaces than asphalt. In fact, he's something of a dirt-tracking legend back in the States.

:up:
Just to complete, I believe Nicky rides in the asphalt like it was on ice.

IMO, Hayden developed the Kevin Schwantz rear wheel slide.
Nicky not only slide the rear wheel like Kevin, seating very close to the fuel tank, but also brakes sliding the rear wheel with a simultaneous oposite lock in the front wheel, modulating the brakes independently to sustain the drift.
Nicky is amazing in Phillip Island long straigh braking zone.
I think it also explains his victory in Laguna Seca.
It's a pitty that TC also invaded MotoGP, TC seemed to hurt his advantage. :o

I think this technic is the best one for ice tracks... according to my experience in Super Mario Kart :blush:

#37 One

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 09:08

quick someone tell USF1 to sign nicky hayden.



come on the race is on snow and its meant to be fun event.



just my thought...


sorry for interruption...

#38 One

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 09:19

this is crazy. I suppose if Alonso won a bicycle race he should go test a gp bike. Its just for fun.



Just my thoughts again, yet Nicky beat Felipe.

Kimi is in WRC car, so never say never, with the condition that If Nicky can bring up the money that is needed, like Kimi did via RedBull... But Nicky drive on Red Bull is something that is simpley impossible, but the other red Bull team has another vacancy... If Nicky is serious, the he should be quick.


On the other hands, I must say Nicky will not quit MotoGP for driving a F1 car This year, is he?

#39 Avastrol

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 13:00

From being unceremoniously being relegated to 'stepchild' status in Honda, going into welcoming arms at Ducati (even if the bike is a bit of a scary monster), Nicky has a lot of unfinished business in MotoGP.

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#40 ZenSpeed

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 17:06

And Ferrari needs America. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but I would think it would be Ferrari's dream to have a competitive American driver that they could use. Maybe one day....(again)

Rossi is just, if not more, popular than Hyden in America........and America ALWAYS loves a winner and nobody is more of a winner than Rossi

#41 ZenSpeed

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 17:08

Actually Rossi is pretty useful in a Rally car and I would expect him to swich to rallying when he is done with MotoGP.

yep, and that was without proper training, the kind of testing you would do when you commit to a series full time for the whole season.

#42 Simon Says

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 17:27

If Hayden won a soapbox derby you may have a point....but, it wasn't a soapbox derby car now was it?

A bicycle is powered by the rider, and motorcycle is powered by a motor, hence the name motorcycle. They really are two very different things and probably why no one has gone in search of Lance Armstrong to be a MotoGP rider.

Now on the other hand a kart and a car share many similarities. I hope you can see them on your own.

The fact is that the ONLY WAY Alonso would beat Hayden on a MotoGP bike is if Hayden fell off, but Hayden did in fact beat Alonso in a car and a kart.


+1

In a F1 car, ofcourse Hayden won't be able to beat Alonso and Massa. But I sure love to see what kind of laptime he's able to do just for fun.