48 replies to this topic

[timhanna]

Happy New Year everybody!
It's been a while since my last confession.
I was wondering if anyone had a description from any source at all of the 1973 International at Mettet. I know the winners in each class and I know that Kim Newcombe came 4th overall in the 500's. I think there were two heats.
I have been looking in all the usual dark and dusty places but so far no luck.
In anybody can help I would be most grateful and it was really assist me with my biography of Kim Newcombe.
Tim Hanna

[timhanna]

Even though I've had no joy so far I thought I'd give it anpother go. Someone must have a descrition, even eye witness account, of the meeting at Mettet in 1973.
Normally I'd ask Jerry Lancaster ot Jeff Gawley but Jerry was recovering from a bad crash at the time and Jeff was racing in France. Anyone?

[sidecarracing]

Even though I've had no joy so far I thought I'd give it anpother go. Someone must have a descrition, even eye witness account, of the meeting at Mettet in 1973.
Normally I'd ask Jerry Lancaster ot Jeff Gawley but Jerry was recovering from a bad crash at the time and Jeff was racing in France. Anyone?

Well, some searching on the internet did come up with a picture of the starting grid of the 500cc Mettet 1973 meeting.
Kim is present on the front row.
Don't know how to post pictures so here is the link:

http://pitbuls.free....9e20df383646711

Now Tim that wasn't too difficult to find...?!

[picblanc]

Bit of photo shopping has brought it up a little better.

[Russell Burrows]

Bit of photo shopping has brought it up a little better.

Never before seen Ago in an open face crash hat...(or perhaps it isnt? ) and who's the bloke between Dodds and Newcombe I wonder?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 05 February 2010 - 20:45.

[Herr Wankel]

Never before seen Ago in an open face crash hat...(or perhaps it isnt? ) and who's the bloke between Dodds and Newcombe I wonder?

Chas
HW

[ex Rhodie racer 2]

That was a wicked old track at the best of times. It couldn´t have been much fun in the wet I shouldn´t have thought.
Anyone remember the almost flat in 6th sweeper at the end of the pits straight with next to no run off? Definitely not the place to make a mistake.

[Leif A Nielsen]

That was a wicked old track at the best of times. It couldn´t have been much fun in the wet I shouldn´t have thought.
Anyone remember the almost flat in 6th sweeper at the end of the pits straight with next to no run off? Definitely not the place to make a mistake.

Hi,

Apparently they have built a brand new track there, opening this year!!

http://www.crapwagon...d.php?p=1214678


-Leif

[timhanna]

Thanks for finding the photograph. It's great to see it and to know where everybody was at the start. I had heard that conditions were wet and it would indeed have been a nasty track in those conditions. Not for the faint hearted! It seems the race was run in two heats and I have the results for each. This might help identify the unknown riders in the shot. I think it must be Ago on the MV - No other MV features.
Anyway here are the results.

Grand Trophy de l'Entre Sambre et Meuse, Mettet 1973

500cc heat 1:
1. Giacomo Agostini (MV Agusta) 179.887 km/h
2. Chas Mortimer (Yamaha)
3. Dieter Braun (Yamaha)
4. Kim Newcombe (König)
5. Kent Andersson (Yamaha)
etc

500cc heat 2:
1. Giacomo Agostini (MV Agusta) 182.682 km/h
2. Chas Mortimer (Yamaha)
3. Dieter Braun (Yamaha)
4. Kim Newcombe (König)
5. Pontti Korhonen (Yamaha)
etc

500 final standings:

01 Giacomo Agostini
02 Chas Mortimer
03 Dieter Braun
04 Kim Newcombe
05 Pontti Korhonen
06 Kent Andersson
07 Kurt-Ivan Carlsson
08 Billie Nelson
09 Iwan Panizzi
10 Mike Bosch

I am still hoping there will be a report somewhere of this race.
Onwards and upwards!
Tim Hanna

[ex Rhodie racer 2]

Just look at Ago´s average on a wet track. 182 kmh.
That really was a feature of Belgium road circuits in those days. They were blindingly fast. I wasn´t there that day, but I was there in 1977 when Ago won the 750 race from Katayama on the factory 750 Yam. I tried looking up his race average that day (it was dry) but couldn´t find a report. Anyone know?

[timhanna]

Just look at Ago´s average on a wet track. 182 kmh.
That really was a feature of Belgium road circuits in those days. They were blindingly fast. I wasn´t there that day, but I was there in 1977 when Ago won the 750 race from Katayama on the factory 750 Yam. I tried looking up his race average that day (it was dry) but couldn´t find a report. Anyone know?

It is also surprising that two heats could have identical top four placings. That didn't happen all that often. It's also a real credit to Braun and Mortimer that they could hold out the much more powerful Konig on such a fast track. Of course there could have been factors at play I know nothing about but generally the Konigs went very well in the wet as it helped keep them cool.

[ex Rhodie racer 2]

It is also surprising that two heats could have identical top four placings. That didn't happen all that often. It's also a real credit to Braun and Mortimer that they could hold out the much more powerful Konig on such a fast track. Of course there could have been factors at play I know nothing about but generally the Konigs went very well in the wet as it helped keep them cool.

Tim, I wonder if Kim was on the big König in that race. I think I´m correct in saying there was a 680cc? version. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Christian Leon raced one at some point with a good deal of success, although that would have been a few years later. I wonder what the original capacity of the boat engine was?

[Herr Wankel]

Tim, I wonder if Kim was on the big König in that race. I think I´m correct in saying there was a 680cc? version. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Christian Leon raced one at some point with a good deal of success, although that would have been a few years later. I wonder what the original capacity of the boat engine was?

Hi Rhodie,
There were 350/500/680 versions of the Konig motor.All flat 4 strokers,and none of 'em designed for bike use!Not 100% certain,but I think there was a 250/4 also,but as they say,don't quote me.
HW

[timhanna]

Hi Rhodie,
There were 350/500/680 versions of the Konig motor.All flat 4 strokers,and none of 'em designed for bike use!Not 100% certain,but I think there was a 250/4 also,but as they say,don't quote me.
HW

Howdy,
There was a 250 twin but that was used only as a boat engine. Having said that Dieter Konig made all sorts of things in all sorts of sizes. Engines included single and double row rotaries, (of the kind with stationary cylinders) twin flat fours - like the Keenig that Keen built for his sidecar, various twins, singles, horizontal and vertical. Dieter liked to try different things, especially when he began designing ultralight aircraft motors.
Kim was on his 500 for Mettet as that was the class. He used to take his 350 along but generally only used it for practice and qualifying in order to gain extra track time. In those days it was not uncommon for riders to have machines they could qualify in classes other than those they were serious about in order to collect start money - retiring soon after flag fall. I don't believe Kim ever did that.
I am fairly certain that he only raced the 680 once - and that was the day he was killed on it at Silverstone. I believe he intended to race his 500 in the up to 1000cc race as he preferred it but couldn't as it broke its crank. The 680 certainly had some grunt - well over 100hp and he proved it by taking the lead and holding it for quite a few laps on a track he hardly knew on a bike he had not really ridden - and then came the crash of course. My Commando puts out about 65 horsepower in mildly tuned form and I know lots of guys who are racing with maybe eighty five hp on Commandos that are basically hand grenades. If you look at the machines of the day that would have been racing in that class, including the Jappas, few would have come close to the Konig's horsepower and by then it was reasonably reliable - given that most two strokes including Yamahas suffered seizures and broken cranks and so on.
The biggest problem was its ignition. Two plugs shared the same spark and if one fouled then the other took all the power and the oiled plug never ran clean again. This happened a lot. That and a poor standard crankshaft. Those who could not afford Hoeckle units suffered.
The 680 was bored right out to over 700cc by midget car racers in the States who extracted really big horsepower from them on methanol - 130hp plus.
Tim

[ex Rhodie racer 2]

Thanks for all that info guys. I must say I never knew much about the technical details of the König, even though I was a great admirer of Kim. His death was such a tragic loss to the sport.

[Rennmax]

Just look at Ago´s average on a wet track. 182 kmh.
That really was a feature of Belgium road circuits in those days. They were blindingly fast. I wasn´t there that day, but I was there in 1977 when Ago won the 750 race from Katayama on the factory 750 Yam. I tried looking up his race average that day (it was dry) but couldn´t find a report. Anyone know?

Don't have the race average, but Ago's fastest lap was 131 mph that day

[Rob H]

With the talk on Konigs I thought these pics might interest you. Had this in the shop this week for some pipes making for it:

[timhanna]

That looks very cool. I guess they tipped the gearbag over like that to assist with access to the plugs - which looks almost OK.
Is it all new or what?

[timhanna]

Hi Folks,
I am writing about the International race at Misano that was held after the disasterous Italian GP at Monza where Sarrinen and Pasolini lost thier lives. It was renamed the Trofeo Pasolini and held on May 27. Dieter Braun won the 350 race with Kim Newcombe second and Rod Tingate third. Kim came second in the 500 race.
I don't know any other results but I am looking and if anyone has any info it would as always be greatly appreciated. Cork Ballington describes a fantastic get off and remount in his book Uncorked. Following Dieter Braun in the 250 race his brake lever went back to the handlebar on the second to last corner and rather that be a "Dillbrain" and take out the future world champion he dumped his bike and while sliding along on its side saw Dieter safely tip into the corner. However Cork's bike then flicked back upright and resumed station immediately behing Dieter and he ended up second after all. Not somnething you see every day!

[philippe7]

Hello Tim,

Just for the sake of historical truth, are you certain that the anecdote told by Kork Ballington took place at the 1973 race that you're looking information for ? I don't know, 73 seems very early for Kork in Europe, I didn't think he came to europe before maybe 1975 . I may well be wrong of course, so I hope one of our southern african forum members will be able to confirm that .

Oh by the way, Tim, I've started reading "one good run", so far I'm only through the first chapters about Burt's family history and his own adolescence, and I'm very much enjoying the read so far

Edited by philippe7, 02 March 2010 - 03:49.

[philippe7]

Sorry, looks like I made a fool of myself with the previous post , and Kork may well have been around then : just found this that our much missed Bigrog had written on the old thread , and if anyone should have known, it certainly was him :

Rod, you're absolutely right and god knows why I remember this. But when Kork Ballington first raced here in '73 it was with a TD2 and the 750 H2R. At his first race at Brands in the 250 heat on the TD2, he led up to Druids on the first lap and promptly threw it away when he locked the front.
R

[timhanna]

Hello Tim,

Just for the sake of historical truth, are you certain that the anecdote told by Kork Ballington took place at the 1973 race that you're looking information for ? I don't know, 73 seems very early for Kork in Europe, I didn't think he came to europe before maybe 1975 . I may well be wrong of course, so I hope one of our southern african forum members will be able to confirm that .

Oh by the way, Tim, I've started reading "one good run", so far I'm only through the first chapters about Burt's family history and his own adolescence, and I'm very much enjoying the read so far

Glad you are enjoying my account of Burt's life. It was a lot of fun to write and I think as you get into it you will enjoy the amazing relationships he forged on the salt at Boneville. He must have been the most gregarious and engaging personality.
This book has been more difficult and of course it covers some truly tragic happenings.
It has been difficult to find accounts of races like Misano but I have slowly resolved most of the issues. having people like Jeff Gawley and Jerry Lancaster to turn to has been amazing. I would like to publish their accounts as told to me in emails independently if they allow me to.
I appreciate the correction with regard to Cork. When he first arrived on the GP scene with Bronwyn and Dozy they were really doing it hard and Kim and Janeen made life a lot better with the odd feed and bottle of wine - something Cork acknowledges in his well written and often highly amusing book.
I still need to know who won the 500 race at Misano and anything else about it is of interest.
Rod Tingate remembered meeting an Italian who claimed to be a pilot in the Italian airforce after practice who said he'd fly over on race day. Apparently a Starfighter going like the clappers did actually buzz the meeting. I don't suppose that could happen today.

[peterd]

Must be something about Italy. At Mugello in 1982 an airforce jet buzzed the meeting just before the start of racing. Came in slow and low, so you could almost count the rivets. Silenced the crowd (and the commentator). Incredible sight and sound. Still the best pre-race "entertainment" I can recall.

[timhanna]

Does anyone have a brief bio of Derbi rider Oscar Pastro?
I think he must have started racing around 1965. Killed I believe at Chimay in 73?
Tim

[timhanna]

I see the Monark solo was featured on the poster for the 1973 Anderstorp GP. Does anyone know anything about this machine? It had, I believe, a three cylinder Crescent engine and I think it was built by Rudi Kurth - who may not have ever been paid for his work. In any event it seemed to disappear after that.
It is described as a semi kneeler and certainly looks very low.
Also can anyone tell me where Nick Grant was from. I think Nick was down to ride it and might have done so in the 500 race until the magneto came adrift.
It sure is a fascinating looking machine.

[philippe7]

Tim, check out those two posts in the old thread by forum member "Yendor" ( Rod Scivyer ) who actually rode the thing :

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=2576831

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=2576849

This is a picture of the machine with Rod onboard at the 1975 French GP at Paul Ricard


Also, according to forum member Henry Snee, well known british rider Mick Grant maybe rode it at some stage.

There are also two pictures of the Monark on this page :
http://www.classic-m.../rudi-kurth.htm

If I remember well the project may have started in 73 with Monark sponsorship for Kent Andersson to ride ( I saw a static picture of him on the bike ) but only really saw the track with Rod in 75 , by then calling itself a Kurth or Cat Crescent ( Crescent being the real brand of the outboard engine it used )

[timhanna]

That's great thanks.
I think Nick Grant rode it at least for a while at Anderstorp in 1973 but quit the GP when the mag went bung.
Thanks for directing me to the posted comments - fantastic. I was most interested to read how well it handled but wonder how comfortable it was to ride. I'm just trying to imagine how the rider fitted.
It seems so obviously logical to reduce height and frontal area. I wonder what the layout of the Crescent engine was. It must have been compact.

[picblanc]

I see the Monark solo was featured on the poster for the 1973 Anderstorp GP. Does anyone know anything about this machine? It had, I believe, a three cylinder Crescent engine and I think it was built by Rudi Kurth - who may not have ever been paid for his work. In any event it seemed to disappear after that.
It is described as a semi kneeler and certainly looks very low.
Also can anyone tell me where Nick Grant was from. I think Nick was down to ride it and might have done so in the 500 race until the magneto came adrift.
It sure is a fascinating looking machine.

An article in Classic Racer a year or two back.

[philippe7]

Tim, the Crescent engine was used, not only by Rudi Kurth for his Monark (solo) and CAT-Crescent (sidecar) projects, but by quite a few riders in the UK, including one forum member - check out this post from the main thread :

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=4395449

[timhanna]

How about that!
I just had an email from Jeff Gawley about the Crescent which he said went like the proverbial shower. I guess the same reliability issues that ruined so many great Koenig efforts.
I'm still looking for Vernon Cooper stories if anyone has one.

Tim, the Crescent engine was used, not only by Rudi Kurth for his Monark (solo) and CAT-Crescent (sidecar) projects, but by quite a few riders in the UK, including one forum member - check out this post from the main thread :

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=4395449

[Redneb]

Oh by the way, Tim, I've started reading "one good run", so far I'm only through the first chapters about Burt's family history and his own adolescence, and I'm very much enjoying the read so far

Philippe I enjoyed Tim's book on Burt Munro too - I recommend his book about John Britten, a thoroughly researched and well written book that delves into the history of the man and the machines he created in great detail. It's just fascinating.

I'm looking forward to this book on Kim Newcombe - it's a story that deserves telling properly and accurately for the future and based on what I've read so far, Tim will do it justice.

Edited by Redneb, 07 June 2010 - 10:08.

[timhanna]

I was wondering if anybody had any knowledge of an incident at the Finnish GP at Imatra in 1973.
I have seen several accounts of a duel between Lansivuori and Read that ended with Read running wide out of a corner and Lansivuori running out of room. I think he may nave fallen. It is described as being borderline legal in at least one account of the race. I'd ask Phil myself but have lost communication with him.
Phil's team mate Ago then won the race and of course ultimately the championship.
I'm not trying to find fault but I would like to know what happened. maybe someone has another report of the race.

[timhanna]

Just another trawl for information. Does anyone happen to have the results for the 500 race at Brands Hatch for the Hutchinbson 100 meeting in 73?
I am trying to find where Kim Newcombe came. I think it was about tenth.

[GD66]

I was wondering if anybody had any knowledge of an incident at the Finnish GP at Imatra in 1973.

Presumably in the 350 race...

[timhanna]

Yep, it was the 350 race.
I believe Phil had managed to keep Tepi behind him for a number of laps before Tepi finally had a big go at him under brakes and managed to get his nose in front. Phil did not suurencder the line and Tepi went down.
However I am not ceetain this is the way it happened as I have not seen any contemporary accounts. I don't klnow if anything was said at te time or if Tepi was hurt in any way.

Presumably in the 350 race...

[HEMEYLA]

Dutch magazine MOTOR about this 1973 Imatra 350 race:

"Read in second place did good work for Agostini by keeping Lansivuori behind him, until in the ninth lap Lansivuori fell of in a slow corner (+/- 50 km/h).

He was not injured but his machine became defective, so he was unable to continue the race."

Nothing about the cause of Lansivuori's fall.

[GD66]

In "The Real Story", Phil Read writes :

"Sadly, because I think Tepi's one of the truly nice guys of motorcycle racing, the Lansivuori challenge for the 350 title came to grief in front of his own countrymen. Battling out alone against Ago and myself, he crashed, leaving Ago an easy winner with me backing him up."

So, nothing to be gleaned from that account. However, they were out riding round together at Spa last weekend at the Bikers' Classic, so someone who was there may be able to shed some light on the current state of their relationship.

[timhanna]

Thanks for that.
I guess the bottom line is that racing is a hard game and by noiw I would imagine all would be forgiven if not forgotten.

In "The Real Story", Phil Read writes :

"Sadly, because I think Tepi's one of the truly nice guys of motorcycle racing, the Lansivuori challenge for the 350 title came to grief in front of his own countrymen. Battling out alone against Ago and myself, he crashed, leaving Ago an easy winner with me backing him up."

So, nothing to be gleaned from that account. However, they were out riding round together at Spa last weekend at the Bikers' Classic, so someone who was there may be able to shed some light on the current state of their relationship.

[roadshop]

Thanks for that.
I guess the bottom line is that racing is a hard game and by noiw I would imagine all would be forgiven if not forgotten.


I think I saw that incidence on You tube from Imatra a while ago, Tepis bike coming straight at the camera.
Tried finding it again, but can`t.

Poul Erik

[GD66]

Mo mention of the incident in Moto MV Agusta, or Colin MacKellar's Yamaha race history. But I'd say you're right onto it Tim, racing is a hard game and there's not many harder men than Readie in it. The old bugger still looks bloody good on a bike though, ramrod-straight back and going hard...

[Coupe Kawasaki]

Did Mick Grant ride the Monark at Imola in '73?










David

[timhanna]

Mo mention of the incident in Moto MV Agusta, or Colin MacKellar's Yamaha race history. But I'd say you're right onto it Tim, racing is a hard game and there's not many harder men than Readie in it. The old bugger still looks bloody good on a bike though, ramrod-straight back and going hard...

He sure does.
A the classic at Spa when most of the guys were out to parade Phil always went hard the year I was fortunate enough to be there.
One thng you can say about him is that on the whole he has seldom said anything bad about the guys he raced against.
I guess winners are grinners and the rest can please themselves.
Anyway Speedy will always be on my top five list.

[timhanna]

Does anybody know for sure what year Barry Sheene cremated the toilet block at Imatra? I have read 1973 and 1974. I had thought the latter but I've just read an article supposedly written in 1973 that refers to it.

[GD66]

1971. And the reason I'm certain about it is I dug up an old MCI with a John Brown end-of-season interview with Sheeney, in which he looked back at his season on the 125 Suzuki and the 250 Derbi, including the toilet incident, and the publication date of the mag is November '71.

[timhanna]

There you go!
Seems pretty conclusive.

1971. And the reason I'm certain about it is I dug up an old MCI with a John Brown end-of-season interview with Sheeney, in which he looked back at his season on the 125 Suzuki and the 250 Derbi, including the toilet incident, and the publication date of the mag is November '71.

[HEMEYLA]

Imatra GP 1971.

[timhanna]

That is a wonderful shot.
Apparently the 'story' was that an official had been seen going in with a cigarette shortly before the fire broke out. It seems that nobody ratted Barry out and in spite of efforts to discover the culprit he got away with it.

[HEMEYLA]

From MOTOR magazine:

The Avengers come to the Netherlands...

Dutch organisers of international roadraces beware!

After many years of ignorance by the Finnish organisation over complains from the Grand Prix riders about the sanitairy accommodation, the riders formed a "secret" union called "W.C.-Avengers".

Topriders swore an expensive oath: "If talking does not help, fire will do!".

At Imatra the union made theire first attack.

A "rider with a lot of championshippoints" poured twenty liters gasoline in the toilet shed, and with solemn faces, the members threw a match.

Soon arrived the local fire brigade, but there was little to rescue.

A major police investigation under the riders failed completely, because most of them suddenly could not talk their own language anymore.

At the price giving the mayor promised by loud cheers from the riders that next year new toilets with showers would be build.

Race organizers from Hengelo and Hilvarenbeek beware, with the riders are members of the "W.C.-Avengers". Are your toilets in order ?

[timhanna]

This is s hard one but you never know. Someone might have a photo or some notes on an old program. I would like to know the line up on the grid for the Allcomers race on Saturday August 11 1973. If anyone knows the first couple of rows I would really appreciate it.