De facto #2 drivers that became #1
#1
Posted 22 January 2010 - 18:38
Coulthard and Barrichello never really became legit #1 drivers after driving behind Hakkinen and Schumacher. I guess Irvine did, but Jaguar sucked so bad that it didn't really matter. Massa pulled it off. I think Mansell was considered a #2 at Williams, and after challenging Piquet earned a rep as a #1.
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#2
Posted 22 January 2010 - 18:40
#3
Posted 22 January 2010 - 18:45
#4
Posted 22 January 2010 - 18:47
Ronnie Peterson was well on his way too.
#5
Posted 22 January 2010 - 18:49
I think it will be the case with hülkenberg this season
I seriously doubt he has been hired as a number 2 to Barrichello.
#6
Posted 22 January 2010 - 18:52
#7
Posted 22 January 2010 - 19:00
Hulkenberg hasn't earned a reputation as a number 2 though.I think it will be the case with hülkenberg this season
#8
Posted 22 January 2010 - 19:03
Hulkenberg hasn't earned a reputation as a number 2 though.
i know it's an inaccurate example, but still i think he will earn a #1 status
#9
Posted 22 January 2010 - 20:00
I do too, but I don't think he will ever earn a #2 status prior to that.i know it's an inaccurate example, but still i think he will earn a #1 status
#10
Posted 22 January 2010 - 20:41
I think it will be the case with hülkenberg this season
I'm not sure that's the kind of number two being discussed here.
He'll be number 2 purely because he's a rookie, with a very experienced team mate. By default, if you like.
This more about established drivers that are number two drivers, because they're not regarded as top-drawer drivers.
#11
Posted 22 January 2010 - 20:51
#12
Posted 22 January 2010 - 20:52
I think it will be the case with hülkenberg this season
Don't write Rubens off, i think there's plenty of fight left in the old dog yet
Edited by SAFC09, 22 January 2010 - 20:53.
#13
Posted 22 January 2010 - 21:10
#14
Posted 22 January 2010 - 22:26
Probably one of the few that would have been able to deliver the goods was Francois Cevert.
massive shame he died just before jackie retired.
#15
Posted 22 January 2010 - 23:04
Hopefully about to repeat history by signing as Kubica's number 2 ;)
#16
Posted 22 January 2010 - 23:04
#17
Posted 23 January 2010 - 07:46
Possible is Jenson Button no.2 at Williams, then became no.1 at Brackley
#18
Posted 23 January 2010 - 08:06
#19
Posted 23 January 2010 - 08:17
Massa to Raikkonen
#21
Posted 23 January 2010 - 18:28
#22
Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:05
#23
Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:10
#24
Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:21
Button went to BAR - Villeneuve's team - and by the end of 2003 had made sure he wasn't going to be #2.
To be fair he was up against Villeneuve... No contest
#25
Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:23
I wouldn't want to downplay Villeneuve's abilities. He was no slouch and, after all, a WDC.To be fair he was up against Villeneuve... No contest
#26
Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:37
I wouldn't want to downplay Villeneuve's abilities. He was no slouch and, after all, a WDC.
OK, so he's better than Ricardo Zonta.
But even Patrick Head thought he made a meal of his championship in a car head and shoulders above the competition
If we're saying Jenson is in the same league as Hamilton and Alonso then Villeneuve is Division 2
#27
Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:42
#28
Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:12
I was thinking about Rosberg and how he will probably wind up as a de facto #2 to Schumacher. This could set an unfortunate precedent for the rest of his career. Once a driver earns a reputation as a solid #2, can they break out of their mold and establish a new reputation as a lead driver for a competitive team?
Coulthard and Barrichello never really became legit #1 drivers after driving behind Hakkinen and Schumacher. I guess Irvine did, but Jaguar sucked so bad that it didn't really matter. Massa pulled it off. I think Mansell was considered a #2 at Williams, and after challenging Piquet earned a rep as a #1.
As you say, once you've been number two, it's not easy to shake off the stigma: Hill, Coulthard, Irvine, and Barrichello were never considered first rate drivers - even Massa has had a hard time establishing a reputation as a truly top driver.
#29
Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:37
But even Patrick Head thought he made a meal of his championship in a car head and shoulders above the competition
Hang on, JV and Head had many disagreements about car setup so much that JV had to sneak some of his settings in and it was a fight to get the rear anti roll bar that he wanted fitted.
Exactly the same happened to Keke Rosberg at McLaren until the last 2 races where they relented and let Keke and his engineer have a free hand - check the results of that.
JV while possible not one of the greatest was certainly very, very good and Button faired well.
Theres a number of arrogant chief engineers who think drivers should just shutup and drive their masterpieces and thinking of it Alan Jones in John Surtee's car is another example.
#30
Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:46
As you say, once you've been number two, it's not easy to shake off the stigma - Barrichello were never considered first rate drivers .
Crapola, Rubens was stunning before he went to Ferrari and one of the highlights on the track (thats why he got the Ferrari drive) but proves your stigma point.
Rubens by the way is considered very good in the wet but he had the misfortune to get a team mate who happens to be exceptional in the wet.
I expect he will show quite well at Williams this year and I think Williams need him too.
#31
Posted 25 January 2010 - 13:15
Didier Pironi at Ligier before moving to Ferrari.
Alain Prost at Renault in 1981.
Lewis Hamilton at McLaren. He said so in Monaco 2007......
As to Damon Hill, he was never a real #1 at Williams IMO. In 1993 he got the drive because nobody else was left (and his achievements certainly didn't merit it). He did well enough but was still the #2 behind Senna come 1994. Again, he did extremely well under trying conditions but Williams went all out to sign Coulthard for 1995, even dumping Mansell. And in 1995, they ditched Hill for Frentzen (effective 1997) so at no point was Hill highly considered by Williams and thus worthy of #1 status...
#32
Posted 25 January 2010 - 13:49
#33
Posted 25 January 2010 - 16:18
Prost to Lauda
Piquet to Lauda in '79...
henri
#34
Posted 25 January 2010 - 20:55
#35
Posted 25 January 2010 - 21:27
Actually he was signed as equal #1, just like Rosberg in 1986.Ayrton Senna 1988 McLaren, was signed as #2 for Prost
#36
Posted 25 January 2010 - 21:36
Crapola, Rubens was stunning before he went to Ferrari and one of the highlights on the track (thats why he got the Ferrari drive) but proves your stigma point.
Rubens by the way is considered very good in the wet but he had the misfortune to get a team mate who happens to be exceptional in the wet.
I expect he will show quite well at Williams this year and I think Williams need him too.
Yeah. The Ferrari years are what gave him the #2 stigma, but then that was always gonna be the case partnering Schumi. If he hadn't gone to Ferrari, he probably wouldn't have won as many races, but he also wouldn't have the #2 stigma. I guess last year wasn't a great help in shaking it off....