Jump to content


Photo

Did F1 learn from A1GP?


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 YoungGun

YoungGun
  • Member

  • 194 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 24 January 2010 - 14:36

As I look to Mercedes and MacLaren, I think A1GP got it right. That being despite who is talented as AIGP has demonstrated we support our own. At the end of the day I think F1 is the better for it.

Your thoughts?

Advertisement

#2 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,456 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 24 January 2010 - 15:57

As I look to Mercedes and MacLaren, I think A1GP got it right. That being despite who is talented as AIGP has demonstrated we support our own. At the end of the day I think F1 is the better for it.

Your thoughts?


I think your talking nonsense. The support for any team/driver is not always based just on nationality. There would be no point filling the seats with drivers just because they come from the right country, if they were rubbish.

#3 Speed_Racer

Speed_Racer
  • Member

  • 242 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:15

I think your talking nonsense. The support for any team/driver is not always based just on nationality. There would be no point filling the seats with drivers just because they come from the right country, if they were rubbish.

:up: Well said.

In addition, names like "Force India" should not be encouraged IMHO.

#4 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 14,164 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:19

Team lineups have always been affected by nationality to some degree. Even the nation-against-nation thing has been tried with success in Motocross, for example. A1GP's big idea was that a spec series with minimal technical interest could hold the public's imagination. It failed.

Edited by Risil, 24 January 2010 - 16:20.


#5 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,231 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:41

As I look to Mercedes and MacLaren, I think A1GP got it right. That being despite who is talented as AIGP has demonstrated we support our own. At the end of the day I think F1 is the better for it.

Your thoughts?


F1's been around for 60 years. Success.
A1 GP has been around for 5 years. And is set to go under. Failure.

/thread

#6 Sausage

Sausage
  • Member

  • 1,802 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:43

Well maybe you don't know but some of the A1 teams like Malaysia, Pakistan and Lebanon were often run by white people from england (lol you get my point). The only thing from some of the countries was usualy the driver and guess what- even then it didn't mean they ever lived in 'theire' country, like Graham Rahal drove for Lebanon and Ho-Pin Tung for team China.

#7 nordschleife

nordschleife
  • Member

  • 875 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:46

I'm guessing there is nothing that prohibits a Force Islam, a Team Crusader, a Young Zionist Drivers' Development Program, a Scuderia Scientology or a Voodoo Arrows. But it sounds to me like a regressive idea, not cool. :down:


#8 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,535 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:50

A team has a right to pick drivers based on whatever ideals they see fit, whether it be be talent/popularity/nationality/money or whatever.

I do not feel that picking one of these characteristics over any other can be considered 'unethical' or whatever it is you're trying to imply, OP.

#9 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 14,164 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:51

I'm guessing there is nothing that prohibits a Force Islam, a Team Crusader, a Young Zionist Drivers' Development Program, a Scuderia Scientology or a Voodoo Arrows. But it sounds to me like a regressive idea, not cool. :down:


Why are they any worse than Team Marlboro Mclaren or Benetton F1?

#10 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,535 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:54

I'm guessing there is nothing that prohibits a Force Islam, a Team Crusader, a Young Zionist Drivers' Development Program, a Scuderia Scientology or a Voodoo Arrows. But it sounds to me like a regressive idea, not cool. :down:

Is it so strange to you that like-minded people might like to be around and support other like-minded people?

After all, if there's any 'compromise' in terms of talent or whatever that the team has to deal with because of their 'selection program', surely its only them that will suffer for it, right?

#11 alecc

alecc
  • Member

  • 2,191 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:55

Why are they any worse than Team Marlboro Mclaren or Benetton F1?


Because F1 is and should be neutral to politics and nationality, that is why F1 is so popular, if it where the other way, F1 would be popular only in England, Germany, Brasil, Spain and Italy.

#12 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,535 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 24 January 2010 - 16:58

Because F1 is and should be neutral to politics and nationality,that is why F1 is so popular

What parallel universe do you live in? :lol:

Edited by Seanspeed, 24 January 2010 - 16:59.


#13 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,542 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 24 January 2010 - 17:01

I think your talking nonsense. The support for any team/driver is not always based just on nationality. There would be no point filling the seats with drivers just because they come from the right country, if they were rubbish.

And yet dozens, maybe hundreds, of drivers have driven in a Grand Prix just because they came from the right country. Motor racing fans will watch motor sport regardless. And that audience is comparatively tiny. The casual viewer will only watch if there's a hook. Easiest hook is nationality. Nobody's going to support driver A because he is a Scorpio, or has blond hair, or whatever. But they might support him if they've seen lots of publicity in recent years about the rise of someone from his country. The obvious case in point is Spain. Industrialized country, large population, mad about bikes and rallying, couldn't give a stuff about Formula 1. Then Alonso comes along, and whoop. And Bernie always said he needed three drivers - a German, an ethnic minority, and a woman. Two-thirds there.

But I'm not sure that that has anything to do with the current outbreak of Gordon Bennettism in F1; it might be sheer coincidence. Various factors coming together. At present it looks like next year's world title battle will be a largely Germanophonic affair, between Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Button, Webber, Rosberg; the only interloper being Ferrari. Which in itself might rally support around the Prancing Horse. But it's difficult to see which other driver from a non-Anglo-German nation would be worthy of a seat at the expense of any of the aforementioned sextet. Schumacher's rise precipitated an interest in Germany, halo effect bringing German drivers on; Britain has always had drivers there or thereabouts, Australia has a strong pedigree. And Italy has always been poor at driver production. The main difference between now and the past is that Germany is the new France, the Elf money being shut off also shut off the strong production line that brought Prost, Arnoux, Pironi, Lafitte et al; also Brazil seems to have gone a bit AWOL as Indycar's collapse removed one area where they could shine, and maybe the global economy going tits up (and tighter money-laundering regulations perhaps? There seemed to be a vast number of Latin Americans of little talent but heavy purses driving in Europe over the past years), and the rise of Germany, has affected things there as well.

#14 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 14,164 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 24 January 2010 - 17:06

Because F1 is and should be neutral to politics and nationality, that is why F1 is so popular, if it where the other way, F1 would be popular only in England, Germany, Brasil, Spain and Italy.


You talk as if an F1 fan can either be only interested in the nationalities of the drivers, or not interested at all. Sure, in Spain and Britain there are a lot of fans who only turn up to see Alonso or Button/Hamilton do well and reflect well on their country, but there are a lot of fans who only turn up in the hope that the cars'll crash. But that doesn't mean that more sensible F1 fans have to ignore national concerns altogether, any more than they have to ignore the frisson of danger every time a car comes past.

#15 alecc

alecc
  • Member

  • 2,191 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 24 January 2010 - 17:19

What parallel universe do you live in? :lol:


Neutral in comparison to other sports.

#16 Craven Morehead

Craven Morehead
  • Member

  • 4,571 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 24 January 2010 - 17:22

Because F1 is and should be neutral to politics and nationality, that is why F1 is so popular, ....


Sorry but you're dreaming here. Grand Prix racing has a longstanding history of nationalism. Recall that the cars used to be painted in national colours. This only began to change when Colin Chapman brought in car sponsorship & the Lotus cars went from (ahem) British racing green to the red white & gold of Goldleaf. Why do you think the current Mercedes cars have been silver & the Ferraris red?

#17 THE "driverider"

THE "driverider"
  • Member

  • 804 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 24 January 2010 - 21:25

Nationalism would always have its part in Motorsport. Take Ducati in Moto GP had Loris Capirossi and Marco Melandri.

#18 Sausage

Sausage
  • Member

  • 1,802 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 24 January 2010 - 23:21

I'm guessing there is nothing that prohibits a Force Islam, a Team Crusader, a Young Zionist Drivers' Development Program, a Scuderia Scientology or a Voodoo Arrows. But it sounds to me like a regressive idea, not cool. :down:


I'm pretty sure the FIA can decide what they find objectionable or not and allow/disallow entrants based on it. if not they can always throw the rulebook on them afterwards like they did on McLaren (sport into disrepute nonsense, the universal rule for all 'violations')

#19 ferruccio

ferruccio
  • Member

  • 446 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 25 January 2010 - 03:34

Nationalism would always have its part in Motorsport. Take Ducati in Moto GP had Loris Capirossi and Marco Melandri.


Agreed.

The A1GP concept was brilliant and it did work. The audience numbers were certainly growing steadily despite insufficient A&P from the organizers. Fans who became aware of if showed a fair degree of loyalty and enjoyed the concept. Some of the 'independent' teams like Malaysia, Ireland, New Zealand etc did well to promote themselves and thus the series despite being frustrated with the organizers.

The failure of A1GP was not the concept. It was the series organizer's (mis)management of it.

Advertisement

#20 Mekola

Mekola
  • Member

  • 1,591 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 25 January 2010 - 04:07

Agreed with last message. Also the "booby trap" of using Ferrari customer car/engines hindered financially the series.

#21 ferruccio

ferruccio
  • Member

  • 446 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 25 January 2010 - 05:13

Agreed with last message. Also the "booby trap" of using Ferrari customer car/engines hindered financially the series.


Yup. Part of the mismanagement (of priorities). Btw the car was actually wholly designed and built by A1GP. Ferrari only provided the engines.

#22 Simon Says

Simon Says
  • Member

  • 2,163 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 25 January 2010 - 07:41

Because F1 is and should be neutral to politics and nationality, that is why F1 is so popular, if it where the other way, F1 would be popular only in England, Germany, Brasil, Spain and Italy.


F1 is based on nationality. If you're an American it's hard to get into F1 unfortunetly and you'll be taken less serious as if one would come from Germany or Britain.

#23 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,534 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:23

As I look to Mercedes and MacLaren, I think A1GP got it right. That being despite who is talented as AIGP has demonstrated we support our own. At the end of the day I think F1 is the better for it.

Your thoughts?

F1 means this http://www.thef1stor...-1951-monza.jpg

A1 means this http://www.jillkgreg...mages/blank.jpg

There's your problem, also the cruddy slower than GP2 cars were of no assistance to the spectacle either! (nor the coverage mainly on obscure pay television, and neither the second-rate drivers) :)

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 25 January 2010 - 08:24.


#24 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,534 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:26

F1 is based on nationality. If you're an American it's hard to get into F1 unfortunetly and you'll be taken less serious as if one would come from Germany or Britain.


But the recent quality Champcar drivers like Almendinger went to NASCAR instead of to a testing position for a lower end team like Super Aguri or Minardi to attempt to crack F1 :confused:

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 25 January 2010 - 08:27.


#25 feynman

feynman
  • Member

  • 264 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:27

When F1 is at it's worst, when it stinks most, is when it is based on nationality.

Small-town, tribalist numbskulls arguing about imaginary lines drawn on pieces of paper, wrapping themselves in garish dish towels, and standing attention to dirges. It's a ridiculous stone-age mentality, especially when it brings the inherent, unavoidable, fostered-notion of "the other" ... wilfully subsuming individuality to be part of some geography-based, lock-step, group-think, lowest common denominator collective. What kind of ambition or aspiration is that?

Proud of your country ... you are supposed to proud of things that you do, things that you achieve, not attaching to glories of others by virtue of something as tenuous and random as accident of birth.

F1 at it's highest point ridicules that, keeps alive the rational enlightenment spirit, it embraces the international and the global, building succesful teams of the best individuals and technology from wherever it can source them. The internationals of Ferrari dominated the sport, the attempted petty-nationalisation, rightly sees them go backwards.

The nation-state is an outmoded 19th-century anti-enlightenment romanticist invention, whose dubious time is long since past.
National colours gave way to international colours, Vodafone and Red Bull have no time or use for borders, that is the forward-looking pattern that should be endorsed and celebrated by F1.

#26 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,542 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:50

On the plus side, the flag of Liechtenstein is pretty.

#27 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 14,164 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:55

But the recent quality Champcar drivers like Almendinger went to NASCAR instead of to a testing position for a lower end team like Super Aguri or Minardi to attempt to crack F1 :confused:


Probably because he has some wild notion of being paid for what he does.

Edited by Risil, 25 January 2010 - 10:56.