Jump to content


Photo

Montezemolo not worried that Schumi has taken Ferrari material


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Hairpin

Hairpin
  • Member

  • 4,468 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 31 January 2010 - 13:52

Luca says in an interview:

"I'm not worried about the possibility that he might have taken material from our development.”
http://www.manipef1....articles/10502/

That is good to know.

Of course, the thread title is a joke, or rather a result of frustration reading headlines in general.

But seriously, what can a driver bring? How much do they know about the development? Do they get to know the inner secrets or only the parts that concerns drivability?
Schumi had a strange role at Ferrari, maybe he know all the secrets that is normally forcing senior staff to have a year of gardening leave when they swap teams, is that what Luca is talking about?

I doubt Nico can bring so much from Williams, but Alonso can bring the inner stories about the spygate. Kubica can bring... Mario Theissens wig? The new teams will have a lot of use of the experienced drivers i terms of routines and workflow and I guess Jenson can bring some of Ross Brawns personal secrets.

Not long before we see Whitmarsh eating a banana.

Advertisement

#2 pRy

pRy
  • Member

  • 10,817 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 31 January 2010 - 14:08

I suppose it's quite possible he had discussions with engineers about the direction this years Ferrari was going in. He was around the team enough to do so.

#3 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 31 January 2010 - 14:18

I suppose it's quite possible he had discussions with engineers about the direction this years Ferrari was going in. He was around the team enough to do so.

I doubt that anyone would put him on the spot with questions of that kind, nor I think he would volunteered. I think where his Ferrari backgroud might simply show up is how he will steer the engineering. It's ingrown experience which cannot be dennied; but then, the same applies after all to Ross, or any other transplant. Lessons from the past probably helped to clarify some ethical questions, if there were any doubts.

#4 Darth Sidious

Darth Sidious
  • Member

  • 751 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 31 January 2010 - 14:35

Well, given all the recent rumours about negativity regarding the F10 maybe he thinks the secrets Schumacher has taken will slow them down as well???

j/k

#5 giacomo

giacomo
  • Member

  • 6,977 posts
  • Joined: December 05

Posted 31 January 2010 - 14:39

The thread opener forgot to add that 'this is not a bash thread'.  ;)

#6 Hairpin

Hairpin
  • Member

  • 4,468 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 31 January 2010 - 14:39

Well, given all the recent rumours about negativity regarding the F10 maybe he thinks the secrets Schumacher has taken will slow them down as well???

j/k


-"Bye Michael, good luck"
-"Thanks Luca, it has been some good years"
-"Take this DVD"
-"What is it?"
-"Here, take this money also and buy yourself a A1 printer"

#7 Anssi

Anssi
  • Member

  • 1,899 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 31 January 2010 - 14:57

One possible explanation as to why he felt he needed to say that could be that he knows Michael took a lot of knowledge with him.

But there is no way stopping that happening. Of course Michael can tell a lot about Ferrari. But how much does he know that Ross Brawn would not already know? Ross left the team after the 2006 season and how much could Michael have learned about for example technical details of the cars to really benefit another team.

One thing to consider is that it may not always be helpful if someone brings in a lot of "new" information and interrupts your work with that. What if that new information is poor information? What if it distracts the team and de-rails their development work into the wrong rails leading to failure? That's why they have Ross Brawn there to decide what is important and what is not. Someone like Michael Schumacher has no chance doing the same decision making, the engineering work, "what is important" "should we copy this from the competitor or not" Michael can bring them a drawing of a wing or a floor but he can't be the one who decides whether to use it or not - that's for the engineers to research and it takes time for them to find out whether the competitor's car design is better than their own even if they have the full drawings of the car... full drawings takes a lot of time to go through and check everything... so yeah what I am getting at it is not an automatic help for experienced car designers if they get a lot of drawings made elsewhere to interrupt them in the middle of their own project - they can even say take the drawings elsewhere we have work to do. Just something to consider.

Another thing is if Michael copied some hard-disk drives on his last few days... don't know if they encrypt their hard-disk drives - perhaps they should if they don't do it already :cat: If you have an unencrypted hard-disk drives no operating system user-account passwords are going to stop anyone from reading the contents of the disk. Would be interesting to hear from the F1 teams how they protect their data but of course they are not telling - or are they? Perhaps some team could shed some light into that - I am sure there are other nerds out there who are interested in that too without malicious intent, just curious about how well are the teams protecting their data. OK I'll stop :cat:

Edited by Anssi, 31 January 2010 - 14:58.


#8 Just waiting

Just waiting
  • Member

  • 868 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 31 January 2010 - 17:10

Well, given all the recent rumours about negativity regarding the F10 maybe he thinks the secrets Schumacher has taken will slow them down as well???

j/k

:up: :up:

Besides my suspicion is that Brawn took the good secrets with him when he left, and forgot to leave any copies behind him at Ferrari

Of course, it might be helpful to know what Ferrari is NOW doing, as it would save Ross time and resources to avoid repeating their mistakes and going down the same road

Edited by Just waiting, 31 January 2010 - 17:13.


#9 Hairpin

Hairpin
  • Member

  • 4,468 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 31 January 2010 - 17:19

One thing to consider is that it may not always be helpful if someone brings in a lot of "new" information and interrupts your work with that.

That is a very important point. Actual development plans are pretty useless since they have so many dependencies. What is useful is the science part. New materials, research results and stuff like that. They all have basically the same kind of knowledge, top guys move around a bit (Newey to Ferrari soon?) and they all think that they can do better than the other guy anyway.

#10 glorius&victorius

glorius&victorius
  • Member

  • 4,327 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 31 January 2010 - 17:22

Why is Ferrari continuing to make comments about MS exit? Sounds like they are really hurtin'...

and by the way it is not like Ferrari has been reigning supreme during the last 3 years... so not much "secrets" to take away. The best people left a few years ago and MS was just the last of them

Edited by glorius&victorius, 31 January 2010 - 17:24.


#11 Hairpin

Hairpin
  • Member

  • 4,468 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 31 January 2010 - 17:24

Why is Ferrari continuing to make comments about MS exit? Sounds like they are really hurtin'...

I think it is rather a question of LdM constantly having something to say. Either that or some journalists always have something to ask and he is always answering. I think he likes it.

#12 ZenSpeed

ZenSpeed
  • Member

  • 1,192 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 01 February 2010 - 01:00

Luca says in an interview:

"I'm not worried about the possibility that he might have taken material from our development.”
http://www.manipef1....articles/10502/

That is good to know.

Of course, the thread title is a joke, or rather a result of frustration reading headlines in general.

But seriously, what can a driver bring? How much do they know about the development? Do they get to know the inner secrets or only the parts that concerns drivability?
Schumi had a strange role at Ferrari, maybe he know all the secrets that is normally forcing senior staff to have a year of gardening leave when they swap teams, is that what Luca is talking about?

I doubt Nico can bring so much from Williams, but Alonso can bring the inner stories about the spygate. Kubica can bring... Mario Theissens wig? The new teams will have a lot of use of the experienced drivers i terms of routines and workflow and I guess Jenson can bring some of Ross Brawns personal secrets.

Not long before we see Whitmarsh eating a banana.

He wasn't a driver but a consultant, so we don't really know if he had any insight on the new designs. I doubt it

#13 ZenSpeed

ZenSpeed
  • Member

  • 1,192 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 01 February 2010 - 01:02

I think it is rather a question of LdM constantly having something to say. Either that or some journalists always have something to ask and he is always answering. I think he likes it.

It's funny he has this reputation, because I read Italians papers every day, including sport ones, and he is present very rarely. Could it be that when he says something, it's present on this board for weeks, making it appear he is talking more than he really is?

#14 Zdeus

Zdeus
  • Member

  • 309 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 01 February 2010 - 03:05

I think Luca has started sounding like a broken record now. What did Luca expect from Michael ? To be at Ferrari's whims and fancies irrespective of what Ferrari chose to do. This is a sport, there are opportunities and thats all there is to it. Luca should stop whining and concentrate on what Ferrari has, or it wont be before long that he finds Ferrari in the pre-90s pre-80s political mess.



#15 ZenSpeed

ZenSpeed
  • Member

  • 1,192 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 01 February 2010 - 05:52

I think Luca has started sounding like a broken record now. What did Luca expect from Michael ? To be at Ferrari's whims and fancies irrespective of what Ferrari chose to do. This is a sport, there are opportunities and thats all there is to it. Luca should stop whining and concentrate on what Ferrari has, or it wont be before long that he finds Ferrari in the pre-90s pre-80s political mess.

wasn't the guy paid millions to do basically nothing? didn't he state to the world he would never race anything but a Ferrari???? If I were Luca, I wonder what happened.....

Edited by ZenSpeed, 01 February 2010 - 05:54.


#16 Zdeus

Zdeus
  • Member

  • 309 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 01 February 2010 - 06:24

wasn't the guy paid millions to do basically nothing? didn't he state to the world he would never race anything but a Ferrari???? If I were Luca, I wonder what happened.....


Should we hold everyone to that standard ? Lets see what Luca said - "Michael can have a race seat at Ferrari for LIFE". Alonso said - " I don't care which car wins, so long as its not the cars in RED" (During his McLaren days).

So words are just that - words. Things change in everyone's lives and people make counterintuitive decisions.

Fine, Luca is pissed - but jesus - to bring it up in every press conference is so stupid. Michael has only had +ve things to say about Ferrari and Luca is just looking like a sore loser.

#17 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:10

wasn't the guy paid millions to do basically nothing? didn't he state to the world he would never race anything but a Ferrari???? If I were Luca, I wonder what happened.....




Should we hold everyone to that standard ? Lets see what Luca said - "Michael can have a race seat at Ferrari for LIFE". Alonso said - " I don't care which car wins, so long as its not the cars in RED" (During his McLaren days).

So words are just that - words. Things change in everyone's lives and people make counterintuitive decisions.

Fine, Luca is pissed - but jesus - to bring it up in every press conference is so stupid. Michael has only had +ve things to say about Ferrari and Luca is just looking like a sore loser.



There is a eternal question under all this, would Michael even if offered would he go to ferrari with the knowlege that Mercedes is returning to f1 and his friend Brawn is there.
There is some frustration there, because had possibliy Michael got into a ferrari earlier then when he did last year, would he be at ferrari.

We know Ross Brawn made approaches to Michael in 2008 and 2009, when they were not Honda and or Brawn, but this timing of Mercedes coming back, it's like a unexpected team, perhaps the only one that could bascially say to Schumi, this is unfnished business, he tried to drive for them when they had mclaren as a partner, but with Brawn there already, it's like a continued ferrari-benetton professional team up again.

I think had Michael won with mercedes f1 earlier, there would be less ambition for him, but it's a challenge which is fresh. I think Michael is like going back in time here, ideally he would of liked to have raced mercedes and then perhaps had his ferrari career to finish off as the final chapter, and it seemed it was, but this Mercedes chapter is like someone has found missing pages of his career, and Luca's own words ""I am the author of this misdeed." I think Luca is annoyed with himself in awakening the driver in Schumi to come back in f1, he almost raced ferrari last year, and then, his hungar great enough to say yes to mercedes+brawn team, and Michael had told him NO in previous occassions, so there was definately a time when Michael felt not right about diriving, but the Massa accident and Luca asking him to come back last year triggered a event where he seriously trained to drive and in the end gotten close to his former drug-racing, but neck issue prevented that. Maybe at the time or not, he knew Mercedes was coming and this ferrari final races would be a parting company in a more helpful way on track then he could do as a super assistant, yence dissapointment in not doing it. But with ALonso already signed and massa being his friend, and a 3rd car idea-not coming off, and the idea of it probabley would of been counter productive if you've signed Alonso fpr fiuture stability, is a schumacher come back that important to ferrari's future, yence it just was bad timing, but Michael needed to race.


Michael surprised Brawn, Ferrari, the fans and everyone around the the world TWICE or maybe 3 SHOCKS, it was more shocking really, 1st the ferrari come back last year, then after getting everyon'es hopes up, the come back does not come off, and people wonder is the injury ever going to heal, alot of questions left unswered at the press conference.
3nd leaving ferrari 4 mercedes. Mercedes and Schumacher pretty much ruled the headlines, it must be tough to have your former star, but all time superstar in different colors especially after you think he would never race again, and at one point everyone had accepted the idea, of his retirement .


A set of circumstances came to fusion that I think no one could predict or saw themselfs in a year earlier, The Massa accident is perhaps the most important accident forr different reasons such as being a trigger for MS to feel the racing drug again.


Its interesting, if Schumacher is so important at ferrari, would they turn away Alonso at the last second, after already paying off Kimi for Alonso, then paying off Alonsof ffor Schumaher lol, it seemed a tall order, especially with the santander sponorship, and for a comeback that will last how long, if ferrari really wanted Schumacher to race, the 3rd car idea was the only thing Luca could do, it was a unexpected situation for for ferrari luza, MS and f1 alike, what do you do when 7 times f1 champion, the driver of the last decade wants to race again, he's not going to wait around.

In a way, maybe Luca should of shut down ferrari until Schumacher was rested and raring to go, because that was the only way I think he was going to continue with them, too much changes when you leave a job sometimes, new people, old people at different places brawn and todt etc

The great history they have is what it is, great history, Luca needs to find peace and realise perhaps Schuey needed a challenge, totally new one.

Edited by SeanValen, 01 February 2010 - 07:42.


#18 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,203 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:21

MS will certainly have initmate knowledge of Ferrari's problems and plans for 2010. By plans he must know the targets and at the very least rough ideas about approaches with regards to 2010, this in order words means he will be taking with him to Mercedes the knowledge of what to expect from Ferrari in the 2010 Ferrari's car - at the begining of the season.

This knowledge may or may not be valuable to Mercedes but personally, I think it will be and the fact the Luca voluntarily ventured to voice otherwise suggests to me that he is truly concerned or he was deliberately insiniuating that MS will be doing so and it will be naive to believe that he (MS) will be silent if he sees a need to utilize such knowledge at Mercedes.

Edited by femi, 01 February 2010 - 07:26.


#19 Zdeus

Zdeus
  • Member

  • 309 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:36

MS will certainly have initmate knowledge of Ferrari's problems and plans for 2010. By plans he must know the targets and at the very least rough ideas about approaches with regards to 2010, this in order words means he will be taking with him to Mercedes the knowledge of what to expect from Ferrari in the 2010 Ferrari's car - at the begining of the season.

This knowledge may or may not be valuable to Mercedes but personally, I think it will be and the fact the Luca voluntarily ventured to voice otherwise suggests to me that he is truly concerned or he was deliberately insiniuating that MS will be doing so and it will be naive to believe that he (MS) will be silent if he sees a need to utilize such knowledge at Mercedes.


Same is true for Button leaving for McLaren with Mercedes info. Had Kimi signed with McL or Merc - same thing. Alonso will take Renault info.

Absolutely nothing new here - Luca is just trying to make issues out of nothing

Point is - Luca's words would have us believe that what a traitor MS is (Words such as misdeed), this is clearly not the case. Ferrari wanted Alonso, they have him - be happy. Alonso was already asking questions about Michael's involvement - now he is gone. What is there to make an issue of I fail to understand.

It is certainly not a misdeed nor anything unethical - and Luca of all should not speak about ethics and morals !

Edited by Ravindra Nagpurkar, 01 February 2010 - 07:44.


Advertisement

#20 BRK

BRK
  • Member

  • 3,474 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:53

Er,I'm sure Michael and Mercedes have things far more important than Luca di's speeches or Ferrari's performance to worry about.

#21 Jan.W

Jan.W
  • Member

  • 169 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:04

Same is true for Button leaving for McLaren with Mercedes info. Had Kimi signed with McL or Merc - same thing. Alonso will take Renault info.

Absolutely nothing new here - Luca is just trying to make issues out of nothing

Point is - Luca's words would have us believe that what a traitor MS is (Words such as misdeed), this is clearly not the case. Ferrari wanted Alonso, they have him - be happy. Alonso was already asking questions about Michael's involvement - now he is gone. What is there to make an issue of I fail to understand.

It is certainly not a misdeed nor anything unethical - and Luca of all should not speak about ethics and morals !

:up:

#22 Frans

Frans
  • Member

  • 7,701 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:10

If I'd were Luca, I'd be very worried about this..... very very very....

#23 Verderer

Verderer
  • Member

  • 591 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:44

Hehe, Ferrari seem to be rather angry and bitter (LDM at least) about their champ walking to another team after retiring from Ferrari and and spending some years as their 'consultant' or whatever the hell he was supposed to be. Now this seems to have bitten them in the arse. The 'Ferrari family' has lost its big brother.... if anyone still believes this myth after they kicked Kimi out. And while pratting about in the Ferrari pits Michael had all the time in the world to really get to know certain things, and now he is taking some of these things to Merc. Not saying he's stealing or anything, but he's got to be privy to the problems Ferrari had last season and their causes. Likewise he will know lot about Ferrari's tyre situation and other juicy details.

I guess this whole chain of events was purely by chance, Ferrari getting Alonso, Button leaving Merc for Macca, and Schumi suddenly getting back, and to Merc. I think no-one could foresee this, but it played very well for Merc and Schumi. Ferrari seems to be at the losing end here.

I'd also claim that during his consulting time at Ferrari, Michael got know the current team and Domenicali, and through the last two seasons came to realise it wouldn't be such a hot idea to get back to the Italian outfit anymore. It's not what it used to be, and Ferrari seems to be running from one crisis to another under the current management. And as Brawn is at Merc, it was really a stroke of good luck for him to get there. I don't think he had to think about that decision for long. I am looking forward to the mayhem Michael will cause in the coming season...