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Romain Grosjean


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#1501 byronbolscher

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:42

It was just an example... I hardly doubt that D Ambrosio would have been ever faster over one lap than Räikkonen... If another driver, than not just reliable, but also fast...


Oh I agree, but don't judge the guy too hard over 1 race with barely any testing that season. But anyway, I am very conflicted on Grosjean, on one hand he shows he has the speed to be something really special, but on the other hand he is costing Lotus a boat load of points, the reason Lotus is losing the fight for 2nd with Ferrari and Mclaren is because Grosjean isn't scoring constantly, and it will cost Lotus millions at the end of the year when the tv money is divided over the constructor championship standings. And for a team as Lotus, rumoured to have quite a bit of debt (I've heard the numbers of 50, 40 million in debt?), that can be very costly. Not to mention the races of others he is ruining. I hope the guy can sort it out quickly, he seems like a nice lad.

Edited by byronbolscher, 07 October 2012 - 18:43.


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#1502 Tonka

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:04

Are Lotus shutting their eyes to what keeps on happening, they're even attempting to blame the other drivers for his stupidity.

Eric Boullier, Team Principal

Obviously, it hasn't gone as well as we expected. We could see in Singapore, when Romain was back on track, that the other drivers were putting some pressure on him at the start. Here it was a little bit easier, but he made a small mistake misjudging his pace compared with Mark, which was a bit higher. I think he has made some progress, but it's but it's unfortunate that this has happened again in these circumstances.




#1503 goldenboy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:11

He should learn where the brake is. This will help.

:lol:

#1504 Craven Morehead

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:16

He should learn where the brake is. This will help.


Also that the gas pedal has positions between "off" and "full throttle".

#1505 olliek88

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:20

what I am astonished about... it wasn´t just tapping the rear wheels of Mark.. No: it was ramming Mark! Punting him in the sidepod.


That picture is completely misleading, much like your comment, watch it again. Romain clipped his right rear which then turned Mark around, he did not "punt him in the sidepod" at all. He made a small misjudgement whilst trying to avoid Sergio, he didn't expect Mark to be going so slowly and taped his right rear, unfortunate but Romain's has (rightly) held his hands up.



#1506 OSX

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:21

Are Lotus shutting their eyes to what keeps on happening, they're even attempting to blame the other drivers for his stupidity.

Boullier is Romain's manager.



#1507 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:35

He should learn where the brake is. This will help.



Also that the gas pedal has positions between "off" and "full throttle".


Is this the immature convention?

#1508 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:36

Posted Image

what I am astonished about... it wasn´t just tapping the rear wheels of Mark.. No: it was ramming Mark! Punting him in the sidepod.


Well, doh. If you punt someone and they spin in front of you you are likely to hit them. Mark had no damage to his car. "Just a tyre mark" said a mechanic on live TV.

#1509 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:40

Who is Lotus 3rd driver?


The guy who replaced him 4 weeks ago. Not following F1 much?

#1510 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:41

Grosjean has no race craft - hence this type of performance is expected. But he won't lose his race seat. He's well looked after.


Grosjean has plenty of racecraft.

#1511 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:43

Oh, enough of it. That footage is no longer actual - it has been used to death. GP2 times are over, now it is F1, an he is doing it wrong © today.


No, enough of what you are doing.

If he had in him then then he has it in him now. He just hasn't been showing it. Its about time he did.

#1512 Jejking

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:17

No, enough of what you are doing.

If he had in him then then he has it in him now. He just hasn't been showing it. Its about time he did.

F1 =/= GP2. His starts on this level are a serious problem.

#1513 Disgrace

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:36

Why is the art of clean starts different in F1 compared to GP2?

#1514 Craven Morehead

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:40

Is this the immature convention?


No. My comment was valid: there are times you have to lift off & be patient. This is something Grosjean needs to learn. Pastor seems to have finally wrapped his head around it.

Your comment, however, was completely pointless. You might want to try sticking to the topic.

#1515 Skinnyguy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:44

Why is the art of clean starts different in F1 compared to GP2?


Actually f1, even now, is surely the openwheel series with less wheel to wheel. Maybe he's just getting REALLY unlucky... You don't get a championship in minor formulas if you can't race.

#1516 BetaVersion

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:50

I'm not sure that would help, but they should do something.

It's so weird. The guy was brilliant in F3 and GP2. Over-aggressive at times, but not nearly as much as now in F1. What went wrong with him?


You obviously didn't watch much of GP2

He did those kind of thing all the time, once in the pack

#1517 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:05

F1 =/= GP2. His starts on this level are a serious problem.


How do starts at F1 differ from starts in GP2? The cars use the same tyres, the cars are just slightly slower, there is the same amount of cars on track, the tracks are the same as F1 tracks. What is so god damn different?

#1518 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:08

You obviously didn't watch much of GP2

He did those kind of thing all the time, once in the pack


I have to disagree. He only had one actual retirement in GP2 in the 2011 seasons 18 races. That was the least of the whole series. He was the cleanest guy out there.

#1519 grunge

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:10

How do starts at F1 differ from starts in GP2? The cars use the same tyres, the cars are just slightly slower, there is the same amount of cars on track, the tracks are the same as F1 tracks. What is so god damn different?

+1.it should really be any different considering the same amount of cars on the track and the same tracks.

What i can think of is that the Stewarding in GP2 seems to be less organized and in general a lot more lenient than the current F1 standards

Edited by grunge, 07 October 2012 - 21:11.


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#1520 scheivlak

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:10

You obviously didn't watch much of GP2

He did those kind of thing all the time, once in the pack

"All the time"?
Nonsense.

If you do this all this all the time you won't be champion with a lead like this http://www.forix.com...&...mp;c=30&s=0

#1521 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:11

No. My comment was valid: there are times you have to lift off & be patient. This is something Grosjean needs to learn. Pastor seems to have finally wrapped his head around it.

Your comment, however, was completely pointless. You might want to try sticking to the topic.


Oh I see, you ACTUALLY thought that he does not knoe that the throttle can be applied in different ways than 0% or 100%. OK, good luck with that.

#1522 Skellen

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:12

Rosberg mentions Grosjean in his latest vid to fans:


#1523 Craven Morehead

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:13

Unsurprisingly, you continue to miss the point. Enjoy the rest of your weekend Dolph.

#1524 grunge

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:13

You obviously didn't watch much of GP2

He did those kind of thing all the time, once in the pack

Not true actually.he never had that reputation is Gp2.as Dolph pointed out he had one of the least no. of incidents of all the drivers on the grid.He was punted out at the Hockenheimring in 2010 by Maldonado,no fault of his.

Mald0nado on the other hand was pretty notorious even in his GP2 days.

Edited by grunge, 07 October 2012 - 21:18.


#1525 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:13

What i can think of is that the Stewarding in GP2 seems to be less organized and in general a lot more lenient than the current F1 standards


That could possible be true, but he still didn't hit people at the starts of GP2 races. Lenient stewarding or not.

#1526 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:17

Unsurprisingly, you continue to miss the point. Enjoy the rest of your weekend Dolph.


No, you are missing the point. And I'll spell it out for you: you comment sounded very insulting. Hence my reaction. You seem to think that just because you have a supposedly valid point to make you are allowed to presented in an disrespectful manner.

#1527 grunge

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:21

Grosjean is such a sight to watch when he gets away at the race start..his speed is 2nd to none and is an excellent overtaker on the track,but he seems to have spatial orientation problems at race starts again and again..today was just plain clumsy..i dont even know what he was thinking there,he says he was looking out for Perez on the side but you've got to be aware of cars from all 4 directions around you..he bumped into Webber just like he didnt know he existed in front of him.


#1528 squiresm

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:24

I have to disagree. He only had one actual retirement in GP2 in the 2011 seasons 18 races. That was the least of the whole series. He was the cleanest guy out there.

He was far better in his second stab at GP2, but his spell from 2008-09 tended to be quite erratic.

#1529 Craven Morehead

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:29

No, you are missing the point. And I'll spell it out for you: you comment sounded very insulting. Hence my reaction. You seem to think that just because you have a supposedly valid point to make you are allowed to presented in an disrespectful manner.


...and this coming from a guy who barges into a discussion with name-calling. :lol:

Can't you smell the hypocrisy in that?

Edited by Craven Morehead, 07 October 2012 - 21:29.


#1530 midgrid

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:34

Why is the art of clean starts different in F1 compared to GP2?


There are no major differences, but I can think of some minor ones that could accumulate:

- F1 cars carry more fuel and are therefore proportionally heavier at the start of the race, relative to dry weight (and thus performance) at the start of the race.
- F1 cars have the additional complication of KERS, which is used tactically away from the start.
- GP2 is a spec series, with only minor differences between drivers' set-ups. In F1, the fact that each team uses a different chassis design (in addition to differences in engine, gearbox, etc.) means that there will be a greater variation in car behaviour than in GP2.
- Grosjean was usually a front-runner in GP2, and was less likely to be involved in crashes when starting from the front of the grid in that category relative to starting from further back in an F1 car.
- The drivers in GP2 are of a lower standard generally than in F1, making first-corner crashes more likely, and spreading responsibility for incidents over a greater number of drivers.
- F1 is a more high-pressured environment than GP2.

That being said, Grosjean seems to have a serious problem with his starts that other rookies have quickly left behind after gaining experience, or not had at all. His speed and potential are undeniable, but his racecraft is (bafflingly, considering his record in junior formulae) sorely lacking. What's most worrying is that he is still making the same mistakes throughout the season and is not on any kind of learning curve.


#1531 Nobody

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:39

Come now, you're not comparing Grosjean to a two time champion like Hakkinen are you?


In 1994 Mika was far from being a two time champ  ;)

I'm just pointing to parallels.




#1532 swerved

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:55

I have to disagree. He only had one actual retirement in GP2 in the 2011 seasons 18 races. That was the least of the whole series. He was the cleanest guy out there.



Unfortunately this is now, not then, and this is F1, not GP2, he clearly hasn't learned from his ban, imo there is something missing that no-one can teach him, an instinct and awareness that most of the other drivers have and that he lacks.

I'd be surprised if he retains his seat for next year, even with Boullier batting for him, he has affected and continues to affect the races of to many other drivers, to say nothing of the points in the WCC that he's costing Lotus, and the costs of repairing his cars, Boullier may be part of Romains management team, but Lopez & Lux are Boulliers bosses, I doubt very much that they're impressed with him.

He's the first driver in ages to suffer the ignominy of a race ban, clearly either the lesson wasn't harsh enough to be truly learned, or it was of such insufficient length as to make it all to easily forgotten.

#1533 Velocifer

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 22:02

Likely Grosjean's being timid in the first races was what caused his contacts then, and understandably decided the cure must be to more aggressive, but it was obviously overdone (although kudos for not being cowed by the press) and now it's become a lead weight . He should not let this become a thing as it could easily ruin his whole style, but just continue to find the balance between timidity and aggressiveness. If he finds the balance and shrugs this 'spell' off I will be impressed.

#1534 sosidge

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 22:04

You have to question whether he deserves his superlicence. Time and time again he is making idiotic maneouvres on the first lap. His pace is good, his races when he gets past the first lap have been OK, but he has shown no ability to judge his position or speed in traffic, and no ability to learn. He is not of the standard required for F1.

Edited by sosidge, 07 October 2012 - 22:05.


#1535 pingu666

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:25

what seemed odd to me was that webber just seemed to slow down where I wouldn't expect it :-(

#1536 gowebber

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:05

Lol cmon you guys defending Grosjean. This guy has caused too many incidents like this ruining peoples races this year. While I agree Mark can be a bit timid into T1 he wasn't that much slow than the other guys around him and anyway thats beside the point. The guy behind should by watching what he's doing, actually try braking for the corner and ensure he doesn't hit the driver in front. RG he was carrying too much speed and off the racing line trying a banzai move up the inside without caution or braking. Its clear in the footage he rammed into Mark without even an attempt to slowdown. Its highly questionable he would have made that corner from there at that speed anyway. As Mark said maybe its time for him to have another holiday if he's going to keep doing this and wrecking other peoples races.

Edited by gowebber, 08 October 2012 - 02:07.


#1537 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:18

C'mon Grosjean get it right, you took out the wrong Redbull today. How are you supposed to help Raikkonen win the wdc if you can't keep your targets straight?

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 08 October 2012 - 02:19.


#1538 ViMaMo

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:34

Death Race 2012: If Grosjean doesn't get you at the start, Pastor will get you eventually. :smoking: :lol:

#1539 Music Lover

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:50

Lol cmon you guys defending Grosjean. This guy has caused too many incidents like this ruining peoples races this year. While I agree Mark can be a bit timid into T1 he wasn't that much slow than the other guys around him and anyway thats beside the point. The guy behind should by watching what he's doing, actually try braking for the corner and ensure he doesn't hit the driver in front. RG he was carrying too much speed and off the racing line trying a banzai move up the inside without caution or braking. Its clear in the footage he rammed into Mark without even an attempt to slowdown. Its highly questionable he would have made that corner from there at that speed anyway. As Mark said maybe its time for him to have another holiday if he's going to keep doing this and wrecking other peoples races.

Agree on all you wrote but like to highlight the bold part.
Without Webber it's rather likely he would be running wide hitting the car on the outside (Perez?)
So IF he focused on NOT hitting Perez...how did he plan making the corner without taking him out?

Sorry Grosjean, just another stupid error with lame excuse.

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#1540 glorius&victorius

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:23

Boullier is coaching Romain on how to make F1 starts and take first corners?????? WTF!

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103228
"So here I said, 'don't do the same, just keep your line and don't go to try and contact or get too close'. And that is what he did.

what driving credentials does Boullier has? Yes, perhaps driving in Paris traffic...


#1541 pRy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:52

Someone on UK TV made a point yesterday.. can't remember who, either Brundle or Coulthard... the moment a driver over thinks something that should be natural.. they get into more trouble as a result. And so it's possible that rather than Romain trusting his instincts and spacial awareness, he is now sat there thinking "Stay away from that car, stay away from that car" and as a result missed what was happening directly in front of him.

Sunday wasn't a banzai attempt to get into a gap that wasn't there and took someone out of a result.. it was purely a driving error that stood as much chance of ending his own race as it did Webber.

Perhaps once he gets a hand full of clean starts under his belt the problem will go away and he will be fine. Or maybe he does have an issue with peripheral vision or spacial awareness. In which case there may not be anything he can do. But I don't think the guy is reckless.

#1542 F1ultimate

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:30

Boullier is coaching Romain on how to make F1 starts and take first corners?????? WTF!

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103228
"So here I said, 'don't do the same, just keep your line and don't go to try and contact or get too close'. And that is what he did.

what driving credentials does Boullier has? Yes, perhaps driving in Paris traffic...


He should help Grosjean fine the hazard light button.

#1543 Torsion

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:49

Someone on UK TV made a point yesterday.. can't remember who, either Brundle or Coulthard... the moment a driver over thinks something that should be natural.. they get into more trouble as a result. And so it's possible that rather than Romain trusting his instincts and spacial awareness, he is now sat there thinking "Stay away from that car, stay away from that car" and as a result missed what was happening directly in front of him.

Sunday wasn't a banzai attempt to get into a gap that wasn't there and took someone out of a result.. it was purely a driving error that stood as much chance of ending his own race as it did Webber.

Perhaps once he gets a hand full of clean starts under his belt the problem will go away and he will be fine. Or maybe he does have an issue with peripheral vision or spacial awareness. In which case there may not be anything he can do. But I don't think the guy is reckless.


I agree, I think he should just try to stay away from the spotlight for a while, and I think his starts would sort itself out. I know that F1 is the toughest level, but if he is really having spacial awareness issues, wouldn't this have been seen in the lower formulas? its not like he is racing for the first time.

Edited by Torsion, 08 October 2012 - 09:50.


#1544 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:53

what driving credentials does Boullier has?


I'd say he's driven to the odd buffet lunch...

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#1545 g1n

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:28

They should stick him in the simulator and practice starts with other Artificial Intelligence (AI) cars around, do this hundreds of times and it will help.

#1546 Massa

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:29

Boullier is coaching Romain on how to make F1 starts and take first corners?????? WTF!

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103228
"So here I said, 'don't do the same, just keep your line and don't go to try and contact or get too close'. And that is what he did.

what driving credentials does Boullier has? Yes, perhaps driving in Paris traffic...



I really don't understand this post.

So can i say " So who you are to talk about F1 in a forum ? Did you ever sat in F1 in your life ? "



#1547 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:34

grosjean has mini world champion hidden deep inside , he just have to exploit it

#1548 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:20

grosjean has mini world champion hidden deep inside , he just have to exploit it

Are you telling me that Rick Moranis has shrunk a former WDC and Grosjean has ingested him?

My French isn't great but there are rumours that Total might not take up the option on Grosjean when it expires after Korea.

#1549 rsaca

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:54

Are you telling me that Rick Moranis has shrunk a former WDC and Grosjean has ingested him?


That's what I understood as well!

Grosjean needs to worry about getting through the first corner and then he can go from there... WDC? Yeah right.

#1550 Oho

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:06

They should stick him in the simulator and practice starts with other Artificial Intelligence (AI) cars around, do this hundreds of times and it will help.


Doubt it, it would be like playing poker with toy money.