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Romain Grosjean


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#1651 2ms

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:59

People talk about Grosjean having hope in this way and that way, his pace being good at this and that, etc... To me it all seems completely beside the point when he can hardly finish a first lap 50% of the time. He seems like the biggest disaster in F1 since Badoer and who knows how long previous to that.

It's one thing to be slow or not competitive (which he happens to otherwise not be in most regards), but it's a million times worse to be destroying millions in equipment left and right along with the aspirations and possibly even careers of other drivers by turning them into innocent victims of shrapnel. It takes much less than an accident to make or break a driver's season. To have a guy like Grojean going around and crashing into people over and over is just completely unacceptable to me.

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#1652 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 17:11

So I only now found out that Grosjean has been confirmed at Lotus for 2013, (though his contract hasn't been signed).

When did this happen?

#1653 Yhamm

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 17:28

Just after Korea GP

#1654 eronrules

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 17:29

People talk about Grosjean having hope in this way and that way, his pace being good at this and that, etc... To me it all seems completely beside the point when he can hardly finish a first lap 50% of the time. He seems like the biggest disaster in F1 since Badoer and who knows how long previous to that.

It's one thing to be slow or not competitive (which he happens to otherwise not be in most regards), but it's a million times worse to be destroying millions in equipment left and right along with the aspirations and possibly even careers of other drivers by turning them into innocent victims of shrapnel. It takes much less than an accident to make or break a driver's season. To have a guy like Grojean going around and crashing into people over and over is just completely unacceptable to me.


people were saying the same about mika hakkinen ... but mclaren stuck with him and we all saw what happened next. the fact of the matter is this, put aside TOTAL and being half french ... the teams have more data than us,they know what they can squeeze out of this guy in the long run. also look at it like this, Romain has made so many mistakes so far that from now on he'll have to be more subordinate to the team when it comes to claws/extensions etc ... it has somewhat robbed him of his bargain chips which a team always likes  ;)

but jokes aside, i wish him a great carrier, he is fast and proven race winner in GP2. so let's give him the chance he needs

#1655 Cool Beans

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:58

Also look at it like this, Romain has made so many mistakes so far that from now on he'll have to be more subordinate to the team when it comes to claws/extensions etc ... it has somewhat robbed him of his bargain chips which a team always likes ;)

I would seriously like to know how the salary negotiations go when Boullier is both Grosjean's manager and the team boss. Split personality? Doing the negotiations with a mirror? Does he play hard ball with himself? Call a bunch of teams and tell himself his driver has interest from other teams? Does he bluff and what happens if he calls his own bluff? :lol:

#1656 Tonka

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:09

I would seriously like to know how the salary negotiations go when Boullier is both Grosjean's manager and the team boss. Split personality? Doing the negotiations with a mirror? Does he play hard ball with himself? Call a bunch of teams and tell himself his driver has interest from other teams? Does he bluff and what happens if he calls his own bluff?



New to F1? I suggest you look up Flavio Briatore.



#1657 MadYarpen

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:12

I think Lopez decides the salary.

#1658 Oho

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:44

Just after Korea GP


Right... Well Lotus has not signed or announced either driver for 2013. It does seem very likely Räikkönen and Grosjean will eventually be signed but neither has been confirmed

Edited by Oho, 17 October 2012 - 06:45.


#1659 balage06

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:26

I would seriously like to know how the salary negotiations go when Boullier is both Grosjean's manager and the team boss. Split personality? Doing the negotiations with a mirror? Does he play hard ball with himself? Call a bunch of teams and tell himself his driver has interest from other teams? Does he bluff and what happens if he calls his own bluff? :lol:

I don't see why this is different from the Briatore - Alonso or the Dennis - Hamilton relationships. Boullier is the CEO of Gravity Sport Management, wich is basically the driver development program of Lotus and Gravity, they support 13 other drivers besides Grosjean.

http://www.gravity-s...management.com/

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#1660 eronrules

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:09

LotusF1 reflects on romains race in korea ...

http://lotusf1team.c...Learned-in.html

Romain


Under considerable scrutiny following a troubled race in Japan, Romain would inevitably be under watchful eyes at every stage of the Korean Grand Prix weekend; something the young Frenchman carried on his shoulders with admirable composure.

A clean start despite notable pressure from cars around him, followed by a conservatively driven race avoiding potential dramas at various stages will have done wonders for the 2011 GP2 Series Champion’s confidence heading into the final phase of the season.

Understandably cautious at times, Romain could perhaps have done slightly more to maintain position during a tense battle with Lewis Hamilton and Nico Hulkenberg, but that aside there is much reason for encouragement following another points finish. There can be no doubting the man’s pace either, having topped his team-mate’s best lap time in the race.


regarding romains pace against hulkenberg ....

Another area for investigation before heading to India is the baffling behaviour of the tyres experienced at different points of the weekend; particularly in the early stages. Both drivers noted excessive graining from the Pirelli rubber; Romain in particular being forced to nurse the car home in the race. Variations between sets of the same compound rubber is something the team will have to anticipate if the drivers are to feel completely at one behind the wheel from the outset.



#1661 Sanman59

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 13:12


http://www.yallaf1.c...lares-boullier/

I do not understand why they just do not get on and confirm him?

:confused:

#1662 korzeniow

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 13:20

http://www.yallaf1.c...lares-boullier/

I do not understand why they just do not get on and confirm him?

:confused:


Maby they are still in negotiations with Total

#1663 Dolph

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 17:38

http://www.yallaf1.c...lares-boullier/

I do not understand why they just do not get on and confirm him?

:confused:



The last time I got promoted we agreed that I would take up the new position but it took us a month to come to terms over the salary. We hade different views and my new boss did not have final say but had to negotiate with her boss. I started negotiating a month and a half before I even took up the position so there was no immediate rush either. I can't imagine how complex the contract must be for a driver in F1 and how many different things they can negotiate about. AND they have at least two more months until it needs to come to effect.

Edited by Dolph, 29 October 2012 - 17:40.


#1664 kpchelsea

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 17:57

Good to see he's been offered a new contract given his junior record and speed he has shown in F1, just hope he manages to stop crashing into other cars

#1665 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:55

Let's update the list.

Caused:
European 2009 - hit Badoer from behind
Spa 2009 - took out Button from behind
Malaysian 2012 - tagged Schumacher
Germany 2012 - although he didn't eliminate anybody it was his own mistake
Spa 2012 - takes out Hamilton and Alonso
Japan 2012 - takes out Webber

Not Caused:
Monaco 2012 - Alonso shenanigans and Schumacher takes the blame

Racing Incidents:
Italy 2009 - contact which damaged wing - first lap
Australia 2012 - didn't back off when Maldonado had line - second lap
Spain 2012 - contact with Perez - first lap
Britain 2012 - contact with Di Resta - first lap
Abu Dhabi 2012 - contact with Grosjean - first lap


Now 12 first/second lap incidents in 24 races. Those 'safe starts' worked all of two races :lol: .

#1666 Seanspeed

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:57

Now 12 first/second lap incidents in 24 races. Those 'safe starts' worked all of two races :lol: .

Neither incident he was involved in today was his fault, though. He's messed up a fair bit, but he's also getting some terrible luck to compound it and make things seem worse.

#1667 Muppetmad

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:57

The contact was minimal and his fault cannot properly be ascertained. Very unlucky, I think.

#1668 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:17

Let's update the list.


Now 12 first/second lap incidents in 24 races. Those 'safe starts' worked all of two races :lol: .

Sure, as if today was his fault.... If you count today than every driver has had incidents in nearly every race.

#1669 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:36

Sure, as if today was his fault....

If you actually read the list, you would have noticed that today's incident is in the 'racing incidents' pile not where it says Grosjean 'caused'. The only mistake I made was that "Abu Dhabi 2012 - contact with Grosjean - first lap" :lol: when I mean "Abu Dhabi 2012 - contact with Rosberg - first lap" .

If you count today than every driver has had incidents in nearly every race.

But no other driver has consistently had issues in the opening laps like Grosjean.

#1670 boldhakka

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:54

Could have done more to avoid getting hit by Perez - he had full visibility of Perez coming back on track like a madman. At the end of the day, it's not about whose fault it is (certainly not Romain's), but bringing home points for the team. Lotus can still catch McLaren.

#1671 Seanspeed

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:58

Could have done more to avoid getting hit by Perez - he had full visibility of Perez coming back on track like a madman. At the end of the day, it's not about whose fault it is (certainly not Romain's), but bringing home points for the team. Lotus can still catch McLaren.

By trying to gain a position, he was trying to get more points. Some people expect him to just sit and roll over cuz of his previous incidents, but he's gotta maintain a competitive attitude still.

#1672 tarmac

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:02

Good to see he's been offered a new contract given his junior record and speed he has shown in F1, just hope he manages to stop crashing into other cars


Well Boullier said its likely but not certain. He needs to show performance for a long term contract. Dont think this race made it more likely

#1673 Yhamm

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:10

He was 5th when everyone had made one pit stop. I would say that was a pretty good race until the incident with Perez. Would probably have done a 2nd pit stop like Vettel and could have gain some places with the 2nd SC

#1674 Kvothe

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:37

He was 5th when everyone had made one pit stop. I would say that was a pretty good race until the incident with Perez. Would probably have done a 2nd pit stop like Vettel and could have gain some places with the 2nd SC


You do realise he was part of the incident that caused the second safety car?

#1675 Yhamm

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:40

You do realise he was part of the incident that caused the second safety car?

hmm.. :D
Still was a good race I think. Unlucky events...

nice sig btw

#1676 mmmm

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:24

Grosjean: "...I am naturally now supporting Kimi. Next year I expect pay back". :clap:


"We are happy team mates, but I am not really knowing him outside the cirquite."

#1677 Vesuvius

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:46

I must apologise my words on other threads about Romain that were done on the heat of a moment :( Romain is a nice guy, I like him, he is a future grand prix winner (maybe even champion) and I truly wishhe will continue with Lotus, he and Kimi are great team mates.

#1678 Jon83

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:08

Very unlucky today IMO.

#1679 Ze Bum

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:28

Romain's incidents were not strictly his fault today, but I still think a better driver could have avoided both of them.

I'm almost sure Kimi wouldn't have hit either Rosberg or Perez. He just knows how to avoid those situations when they are about to happen.


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#1680 Shiroo

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:36

Romain's incidents were not strictly his fault today, but I still think a better driver could have avoided both of them.

I'm almost sure Kimi wouldn't have hit either Rosberg or Perez. He just knows how to avoid those situations when they are about to happen.

in the first place he is not fighting Rosberg or Perez or DiResta during a race lol

#1681 Lord_Shaitan

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:00

I must apologise my words on other threads about Romain that were done on the heat of a moment :( Romain is a nice guy, I like him, he is a future grand prix winner (maybe even champion) and I truly wishhe will continue with Lotus, he and Kimi are great team mates.

Sorry to say, but it was so moronic what you were writing... but it's very nice that after all you're able to say "I'm sorry". A really big :up: :up: :up: .

And I must say, I can understand that as well. The last part of the race was ..."a bit" stressful for Lotus and Kimi fans :drunk: .

Edited by Lord_Shaitan, 04 November 2012 - 21:01.


#1682 Music Lover

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:21

Romain's incidents were not strictly his fault today, but I still think a better driver could have avoided both of them.

I'm almost sure Kimi wouldn't have hit either Rosberg or Perez. He just knows how to avoid those situations when they are about to happen.

.
Again. lack of race craft. Almost destroyed Kimi's victory.
Why not be careful NOT to cause a safety car, when Kimi had a 8-10s lead over Alonso?


#1683 mich

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:40

About 2011 Lewis Hamilton's aggression Jacques Villeneuve said that

"I'm not in any way comparing these two drivers, but take Takuma Sato. People said, "The day he learns to stop crashing, he'll be amazing." I always thought, "No, the day he learns that he'll actually be driving slower."
"You can't take one trait out of a driver and keep the rest. If you remove Lewis's aggression, he'll be a slower driver. Is that what he or McLaren want? I don't think so."


Now Romain is also like Sato, isn't it?
He have been in Podium or Crash and often won his great teammate at early season, but now he is just driving slower.

Edited by mich, 05 November 2012 - 10:41.


#1684 boldhakka

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:40

And Romain, well, I hope anybody who wrote him off before is now looking at him in a different light. There's a reason a lot of us have been telling people to take him more seriously. Great thing is, qualifying has never been his specialty. He's a better racer than qualifier, much like Lewis.



#1685 weareracing

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 23:31

Any news on Romain's contract for 2013?
I understood that TOTAL's sponsorship option was up for renewal after the Korean GP week-end.
That's a few weeks ago already.
Are Lotus "playing the field" for a 2nd driver/ Romain to be demoted to reserve?
I know he's had more than a season's share of incidents but I reckon he's worth his seat for 2013.
Kimi and Romain could be even better for 2013 than the already good 2012.

#1686 nectar

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 00:57

i think in Grojean's case, Lotus should think deeper - it's not about talent, but mentality. He can be really fast on his days, but tops likes Hamilton fast; but like so many have said, you are not always going to win. And being Kimi's teammate, we all know how much pressure that brings. Whoever that is going to be Kimi's teammate has to have exceptional mental strength for their own sake, otherwise could be easily shattered if they are not completely and ONLY focusing in their own game.

#1687 Vesuvius

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:45

Any news on Romain's contract for 2013?
I understood that TOTAL's sponsorship option was up for renewal after the Korean GP week-end.
That's a few weeks ago already.
Are Lotus "playing the field" for a 2nd driver/ Romain to be demoted to reserve?
I know he's had more than a season's share of incidents but I reckon he's worth his seat for 2013.
Kimi and Romain could be even better for 2013 than the already good 2012.


They didnt use their option. Boullier said before abu dhabi gp that they will have to see maybe until the after the season if Romain has really learned to avoid collissions and then they will sign him for long term but at the moment they have other driver choices as well.

#1688 Shiroo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:01

God damn. They should get Hamilton from MClaren and Lotus would get WCC regulary even with 4th fastest car.

#1689 Music Lover

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:21

Any news on Romain's contract for 2013?
I understood that TOTAL's sponsorship option was up for renewal after the Korean GP week-end.
That's a few weeks ago already.
Are Lotus "playing the field" for a 2nd driver/ Romain to be demoted to reserve?
I know he's had more than a season's share of incidents but I reckon he's worth his seat for 2013.
Kimi and Romain could be even better for 2013 than the already good 2012.

How many points have Lotus lost due to ROM mistakes?
Being 4th vs 3rd vs 2nd in the constructors, what's the financial difference?

That aside, Lotus knows that if the team should have a good chance taking the driver title, they need TWO drivers collecting points, avoiding competitors taking them!
I'm quite sure Lotus have a big issue with this as they know Kimi understand this as well...

Also, GRO has the "bad luck" having a partner with the highest level of race craft in F1 (together with Fernando IMHO), making the difference VERY obvious.

GRo has issues with his spatial awareness, something that is difficult to learn.
I really want GRO to mature as he has been a good partner to Kimi in ALL other aspects. Both are fast, down to earth, loyal!

#1690 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:43

i think in Grojean's case, Lotus should think deeper - it's not about talent, but mentality. He can be really fast on his days, but tops likes Hamilton fast; but like so many have said, you are not always going to win. And being Kimi's teammate, we all know how much pressure that brings. Whoever that is going to be Kimi's teammate has to have exceptional mental strength for their own sake, otherwise could be easily shattered if they are not completely and ONLY focusing in their own game.

Having Kimi as a teammate isn't that big a hurdle for a decent driver. Its not like having Alonso or Lewis or anything. Kimi is very beatable.

I do think Grosjean's problem is mentality, though, but not because of his teammate, because he's shown he can be just as fast, but because of his own actions. He has a lot of pressure to stay out of trouble, but he also cant just be a push-over and lose what makes him quick in the first place. I really think this wont last. He's an aggressive driver, but he's got good racecraft in him. I think Lotus should sign him again to alleviate some pressure, because he's got enough as it is. He's a good prospect and they'd be wise to hold on to an asset like him.

#1691 yr

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 13:12

Having Kimi as a teammate isn't that big a hurdle for a decent driver. Its not like having Alonso or Lewis or anything. Kimi is very beatable.


:rolleyes:



#1692 icewest07

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 13:20

Having Kimi as a teammate isn't that big a hurdle for a decent driver. Its not like having Alonso or Lewis or anything. Kimi is very beatable.


Very clever to put his name along, so that you perfectly cover yourself from the '07 season documentalists who might have reminded you the exact "Having Alonso as a teammate isn't that big a hurdle for a decent driver" :wave:

LOL man, give Kimi a break please! He's been as strong as anyone this season :clap:

Edited by icewest07, 16 November 2012 - 13:20.


#1693 wj_gibson

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 13:23

Realistically, though, who else do they put in Grosjean's seat if they decide to turf him out?

#1694 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 13:42

Very clever to put his name along, so that you perfectly cover yourself from the '07 season documentalists who might have reminded you the exact "Having Alonso as a teammate isn't that big a hurdle for a decent driver" :wave:

LOL man, give Kimi a break please! He's been as strong as anyone this season :clap:

I put his name along cuz I rank him right there with Alonso. Nothing more than that, man.

I'm not slamming Kimi, I'm just saying going up against him isn't like going up against one of the top drivers or anything. Like, he's not such an immense talent that he'll wreck some young kid's spirit or something like nectar was getting at.

Edited by Seanspeed, 16 November 2012 - 13:43.


#1695 Jovanotti

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 13:57

And that's your opinion which you are entitled to have, but don't try to sell it as common knowledge here.

#1696 yr

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 14:00

I put his name along cuz I rank him right there with Alonso. Nothing more than that, man.

I'm not slamming Kimi, I'm just saying going up against him isn't like going up against one of the top drivers or anything. Like, he's not such an immense talent that he'll wreck some young kid's spirit or something like nectar was getting at.


Well, Trulli and Ham might disagree with you about Alonso being unbeatable, hell, even Button can look back his years alongside Ham and think he was able to beat him fair and square in WDC in 2011. Also, Alonso has such a ridiculous #1 position in team that its a miracle that even a driver of Trullis calibre could beat him... imagine if Trulli had equal status with Alonso back then :eek:


#1697 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 14:03

I never said Alonso or Lewis was unbeatable.

Should have known I couldn't say something like that without rabid Kimi fans getting upset. This board is overrun, I swear.

Realistically, though, who else do they put in Grosjean's seat if they decide to turf him out?

Yea, nobody that is available is going to be a better prospect.

Edited by Seanspeed, 16 November 2012 - 14:09.


#1698 hijinx

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 14:07

I never said Alonso or Lewis was unbeatable.

Should have known I couldn't say something like that without rabid Kimi fans getting upset.

it's not nice to make generalizations like that

#1699 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 14:11

it's not nice to make generalizations like that

Dear god.

I never said "All Kimi fans are rabid", did I? I'm certainly living proof of that. :rolleyes:

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#1700 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 14:11

How many points have Lotus lost due to ROM mistakes?
Being 4th vs 3rd vs 2nd in the constructors, what's the financial difference?

That aside, Lotus knows that if the team should have a good chance taking the driver title, they need TWO drivers collecting points, avoiding competitors taking them!
I'm quite sure Lotus have a big issue with this as they know Kimi understand this as well...

There's few available drivers who have more raw pace than Grosjean. So it's a matter of choice for Lotus. Do they want raw near front row speed and occasional DNF's, or do they want a consistent points finisher, which they already have with Kimi by the way. There isn't much available on the driver's market. Perhaps a Sutil could do better than Grosjean, but not much else there. Alguersuari isn't capable, Kobayashi isn't capable. It pretty much ends with those drivers.