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Romain Grosjean


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#1851 George Costanza

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 15:10

Matching a rusty kimi who was probably only at 2003 level. Gro gro is fast and I think he will win races and I don't think he should change the way he drives just try to crash less.



2003? If he had a bit more luck in Germany that year, he would have been the World Champion.

That level is quite high.

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#1852 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 15:22

2003? If he had a bit more luck in Germany that year, he would have been the World Champion.

And highly undeserved as well. Winning only one race to Schumi's multiple ones. If Kimi had won that title, the new points systems introduced that year would have been a lot more criticized.

#1853 George Costanza

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 15:27

And highly undeserved as well. Winning only one race to Schumi's multiple ones. If Kimi had won that title, the new points systems introduced that year would have been a lot more criticized.



Well, I agree somewhat due to wins, but Kimi was in a 2002 development car (and showed very good pace and results with it) yes, it would have been different if he had won due to the points system. Probably would have been chnaged for the 2004 season.

#1854 Seanspeed

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 16:05

Grosjean thread guys.

#1855 metz

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 20:54

Rusty or not, Grosjean has far, far less experience that Kimi and as a result, he potentially has far more room to improve.

That's the sad part. He has more room to improve than any other driver in F1.

#1856 Dolph

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:04

That's the sad part. He has more room to improve than any other driver in F1.


Maybe only in your eyes.

#1857 metz

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 22:23

Maybe you can name another driver that should catch up to his teamate in 2013 more than RG.

#1858 Kingshark

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 23:44

I can't believe that people actually believe Kimi has more room for improvement than Romain.

#1859 boldhakka

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:51

There's a subtle difference in interpretation of the phrase "potential to improve". If you put a 90-year old into a car and show his performance to a random person on the street without mentioning the age, he will certainly say there is "potential to improve". Once you tell him the drivers age, however, he will certainly revise his opinion and say the there is likely no potential to improve.

he example was just as a way of illustration.

So, while the results show that there is a lot of potential for the second Lotus car to improve, I think some (not me) are arguing that Romain has already peaked, and that he has had plenty of opportunities to show said peak in F1 already.

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#1860 Kingshark

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:34

Romain has no way already peaked. Name me one F1 driver who peaked in his full first season, at the age of 26.

#1861 Boxerevo

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:47

Was reviewing USA grand prix and Grosjean spun alone somewhere in the race,lost time and positions.

Someone knows why he spun ?

#1862 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:26

Was reviewing USA grand prix and Grosjean spun alone somewhere in the race,lost time and positions.

Someone knows why he spun ?


That was that treacherous corner which was catching everybody out. It just caught out Grosjean more than everybody else in that instance.

#1863 Dolph

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:50

Maybe you can name another driver that should catch up to his teamate in 2013 more than RG.


More than one, but hows Massa for starters.

#1864 Sin

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:56

When I wrote that I thought Grosjean will become champions of champions in RoC he did it... and I also write that I am certain this year will be a good season for him... :p

#1865 Jackman

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:59

I do wonder how long this thread would have been if Romain's alternator hadn't failed in Valencia, and he brought home the first Lotus win of the season.

#1866 Zava

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:05

I do wonder how long this thread would have been if Romain's alternator hadn't failed in Valencia, and he brought home the first Lotus win of the season.

I do wonder why people always only remember Grosjean as the only one who had bad luck with his alternator...

#1867 Jackman

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:16

Who is this thread about, champ?

#1868 selespeed

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:20

I do wonder how long this thread would have been if Romain's alternator hadn't failed in Valencia, and he brought home the first Lotus win of the season.



didn't he already lost position to alonso??

#1869 Zava

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:23

Who is this thread about, champ?

I know, still your logic is wrong. if you disregard Grosjean's alternator failure, and say he would've won, it is faulty because there was somebody in front of him, DNFing from the same problem, you either don't mess with the bad luck effects, or negate all. so all in all, Grosjean was not winning either way: if there were no bad luck, then the winner was Vettel, if there was bad luck, the winner was Alonso.

#1870 Jackman

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:32

Bad luck isn't binary, and I'm fairly sure Vettel isn't suffering from a lack of attaboys.

#1871 Dolph

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:00

Bad luck isn't binary, and I'm fairly sure Vettel isn't suffering from a lack of attaboys.


Exactly. Kimi won Abu Dhabi, but only after Hamilton retired from the lead. When Grosjean was running second in Hungary looking good enough to win Hamiltons car held together. Had it been the other way around we could have Grosjean-Räikkönen 1-0 in the wins department.

#1872 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:10

didn't he already lost position to alonso??

Yes, at the restart, but I think he had the speed to have a very good chance of overtaking Alonso.

Eve if he hadn't won, he still would have overtaken Kimi in the points after that race coming in 2nd. There's not much 'catching up' to do to Kimi, I dont think. He just needs to put together a good season.

#1873 hijinx

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 15:01

come on guys, the season has ended, stop harping on the ifs and buts... look forward to the new season

#1874 Cool Beans

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 15:38

Exactly. Kimi won Abu Dhabi, but only after Hamilton retired from the lead. When Grosjean was running second in Hungary looking good enough to win Hamiltons car held together. Had it been the other way around we could have Grosjean-Räikkönen 1-0 in the wins department.

Except it was Kimi who was running second all the way to the chequered flag at Hungary.
So had Hamilton's alternator given up at Hungary it would be wins 2-0 for Kimi. Nice try though.

#1875 swerved

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:12

Except it was Kimi who was running second all the way to the chequered flag at Hungary.
So had Hamilton's alternator given up at Hungary it would be wins 2-0 for Kimi. Nice try though.



:lol: :up:


#1876 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:33

Except it was Kimi who was running second all the way to the chequered flag at Hungary.
So had Hamilton's alternator given up at Hungary it would be wins 2-0 for Kimi. Nice try though.


That's unfair. Romain was running in second for a long time and it boiled down to Kimi's pit exit that determined who finished ahead of who. If Hamilton's alternator had gone, there's certainly nothing to say that the attitude revolving around that pit exit may have been different. Kimi did finish ahead, but to say he was running second "all the way to the chequered flag" is a distortion of the facts.

#1877 boldhakka

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:41

Once he secured 2nd place, Kimi did run second all the way to the chequered flag. That's a verifiable fact, no distortion there. What do you mean when you say the attitude revolving around the pit exit might have been different? You think perhaps Romain might have been more aggressive?

#1878 SpartanChas

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 17:08

Romain was second in the first stint I thought? Was pushing too hard and looking pretty ragged though, couldn't catch Lewis.

#1879 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 19:13

Once he secured 2nd place, Kimi did run second all the way to the chequered flag. That's a verifiable fact, no distortion there. What do you mean when you say the attitude revolving around the pit exit might have been different? You think perhaps Romain might have been more aggressive?


...an important qualification. To solely suggest that he was running second "all the way to the chequered flag" is to suggest he was second throughout the entire race, at least from my way of reading it (maybe I'm being too literal? I'm prone to doing that...), which as you say wasn't the case. I don't necessarily condone the argument being put forward by Dolph - Kimi beat Romain fair and square - but it was pretty tight between the two.

As to your last question, precisely that - battling with a team mate who has a chance of catching the leader is different from battling with a team mate for the team's first win of the season.

Edited by Muppetmad, 28 December 2012 - 19:18.


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#1880 Dolph

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:17

Except it was Kimi who was running second all the way to the chequered flag at Hungary.
So had Hamilton's alternator given up at Hungary it would be wins 2-0 for Kimi. Nice try though.


Kimi took second due to the different strategy gambles not paying off for Romain, but paying off well for Kimi. Had Hamilton retired early as in Abu Dhabi Romain would have gone with a conventional strategy and no way then for Kimi to catch him.

#1881 Dolph

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:18

:lol: :up:


Hello, didn't anyonw actually follow what happened in the race??? Romain stopping early to try to leapfrog Hamilton.

#1882 Dolph

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:19

Romain was second in the first stint I thought? Was pushing too hard and looking pretty ragged though, couldn't catch Lewis.


Pure BS, Romain caught rigth up to Hamilton. Watch the reace again.

#1883 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:42

Kimi took second due to the different strategy gambles not paying off for Romain, but paying off well for Kimi. Had Hamilton retired early as in Abu Dhabi Romain would have gone with a conventional strategy and no way then for Kimi to catch him.


Romain destroyed his tyres earlier so he had to pit earlier than expected, he was suppose go further but his tyres were gone because he didnt save them like Kimi did as team said afterwards.It could be that Romain could have pulled away but he wasnt really much faster than Hamilton when behind him.

#1884 swerved

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:48

Hello, didn't anyonw actually follow what happened in the race??? Romain stopping early to try to leapfrog Hamilton.


If's, had of's, would'ves, and could'ves, that might just be the story of Romains career, we'll see eh.


#1885 Viryfan

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:58

Romain destroyed his tyres earlier so he had to pit earlier than expected, he was suppose go further but his tyres were gone because he didnt save them like Kimi did as team said afterwards.It could be that Romain could have pulled away but he wasnt really much faster than Hamilton when behind him.


Romain destroyed his tyres because he wanted to overtake LH on track.

the team wanted to do the same with Kimi but Kimi was smarter and he adapted his strategy . And stayed away of dirty air.

It's just a case of experience.

#1886 2ms

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:00

Sometimes I feel bad that Romain has to drive against the probably most underrated and possibly best driver in F1 right now.

#1887 Dolph

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:16

If's, had of's, would'ves, and could'ves, that might just be the story of Romains career, we'll see eh.


I bet that'd make you happy. :rolleyes:

#1888 Anderis

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:18

Sometimes I feel bad that Romain has to drive against the probably most underrated and possibly best driver in F1 right now.

Sometimes I read something like this...

and then I read something like this (about Lotus):

There are those in the team who feel they should have won more races and even challenged for the title - would have done, in fact, if they had had their former driver Alonso in the car.
source


And I wonder what should I think? :confused:

#1889 artista

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:43

Sometimes I read something like this...

and then I read something like this (about Lotus):


And I wonder what should I think? :confused:

Frankly, I would put Benson more or less at the same level than 2ms when it comes to express 'reasonable' arguments. The difference is that 2ms is a formumer (with whom I rarely really agreee, to be honest) that doesn't pretend to be anything else, while Benson pretends to be a fair journalist, and doesn't succeed in it.

It's a bit off-topic, but whenever somebody of Lotus talks lately, they tend to be not too nice with Alonso. For example: http://tazio.uol.com...leiro-do-piloto
And that what I linked is a real interview with somebody working there and not a statement from somebody saying 'I've heard', which could be true... Or not... Or true at times... Or true for the cook who doesn't like driver x because he criticised his spaghetti one day.

EDIT: BTW, that interview with Penteado I just linked might be interesting for Grosjean fans because, not just for the information about 2012, but because of how he explains the real situation of Grosjean in the team in 2009

Edited by artista, 28 December 2012 - 21:47.


#1890 Juan Kerr

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:43

And that's the point isn't it, you can't really tell by looking at simple facts how good someone is but you can certainly tell if you have good intuition and perception from years of watching F1. Alonso and Raikkonen are very similar, Raikkonen slightly faster due to his style and mental resilience, but Alonso is very fast due to his car setup preference and determination. Ultimately Hamilton is the quickest driver but slightly fragile with what people think of him which obviously puts him in a higher mental excitement.

#1891 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:48

Romain destroyed his tyres earlier so he had to pit earlier than expected, he was suppose go further but his tyres were gone because he didnt save them like Kimi did as team said afterwards.It could be that Romain could have pulled away but he wasnt really much faster than Hamilton when behind him.

I've gone over this before quite a few times. Grosjean's tires were not 'destroyed'. His laptimes were as good as ever before pitting.

Alonso and Raikkonen are very similar, Raikkonen slightly faster due to his style and mental resilience

No reason to think Raikkonen is any faster than Alonso, nor are they that similar to me other than having driven for Ferrari, Mclaren and Renault(basically).

Edited by Seanspeed, 28 December 2012 - 21:51.


#1892 ZZei

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:52

Kimi took second due to the different strategy gambles not paying off for Romain, but paying off well for Kimi. Had Hamilton retired early as in Abu Dhabi Romain would have gone with a conventional strategy and no way then for Kimi to catch him.

To make a strategy work, it needs the driver to be able to do it. Grosjean could have saved his tires for attacking once lewis pitted but instead he focused on running as close to hamilton as possible and thus making a few mistakes. I didnt see any gambles in grosjean strategy that race. A clever driver would realize there was no point trying to pass hamilton in hungary and saved the effort for pitstops instead of driving in the dirty air and destroying his tires.

#1893 2ms

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:54

God forbid someone have the opinion that a driver is probably underrated and possibly the best.

#1894 Dolph

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:06

To make a strategy work, it needs the driver to be able to do it. Grosjean could have saved his tires for attacking once lewis pitted but instead he focused on running as close to hamilton as possible and thus making a few mistakes. I didnt see any gambles in grosjean strategy that race. A clever driver would realize there was no point trying to pass hamilton in hungary and saved the effort for pitstops instead of driving in the dirty air and destroying his tires.


Ahem.... you clearly didn't watch the Hungarian GP then. Grosjean wait until Hamilton pitted???? Hamilton pitted only in reaction to Romain. That's why Kimi was able to make a longer stint in the first place. Because the two leaders stopped short!! HELLO!?!?

#1895 swerved

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:46

Sometimes I read something like this...

and then I read something like this (about Lotus):


And I wonder what should I think? :confused:



Andrew Bensons articles are a lot like some of the Autosport "news", opinion pieces short on facts, Bensons articles usually contain more than their fair share of would haves and could haves, seldom without any real basis, one only has to read the comments and replies on his blogs to see what the vast majority of fans think of his scribblings.




#1896 ZZei

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:47

Ahem.... you clearly didn't watch the Hungarian GP then. Grosjean wait until Hamilton pitted???? Hamilton pitted only in reaction to Romain. That's why Kimi was able to make a longer stint in the first place. Because the two leaders stopped short!! HELLO!?!?

What I meant he should have waited for hamilton to pit and then put in some quick laps and overtake hamilton while hes struggling the few first laps with new tires.

#1897 swerved

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:47

I bet that'd make you happy. :rolleyes:


It would make me neither happy, nor unhappy, it would however confirm what many seem to think, that he doesn't have what it takes.


#1898 Seanspeed

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:48

What I meant he should have waited for hamilton to pit and then put in some quick laps and overtake hamilton while hes struggling the few first laps with new tires.

Lotus' first lap pace was hardly one of their strengths. They fared better over whole race stints. With no refueling, you need to have some serious pace left in the tank to outpace somebody with fresh tires and 1/3 less fuel.

Perhaps it was worth trying, though. The strategy they chose certainly didn't work. Got him stuck in traffic and behind his teammate through no real fault of his own.

Edited by Seanspeed, 29 December 2012 - 06:50.


#1899 Vesuvius

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:38

Lotus' first lap pace was hardly one of their strengths. They fared better over whole race stints. With no refueling, you need to have some serious pace left in the tank to outpace somebody with fresh tires and 1/3 less fuel.

Perhaps it was worth trying, though. The strategy they chose certainly didn't work. Got him stuck in traffic and behind his teammate through no real fault of his own.


His true strategy still went wrong as he had to pit earlier than excpected according to the team,James Allen and Romain Grosjean himself who said to the team in radio that his tyres were almost gone and he should pit.I'm not saying he didn't had a pace as he had but he should have saved his tyres better behind Hamilton.

Edited by Vesuvius, 29 December 2012 - 10:44.


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#1900 boldhakka

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:55

Lotus' first lap pace was hardly one of their strengths. They fared better over whole race stints. With no refueling, you need to have some serious pace left in the tank to outpace somebody with fresh tires and 1/3 less fuel.

Perhaps it was worth trying, though. The strategy they chose certainly didn't work. Got him stuck in traffic and behind his teammate through no real fault of his own.


I just looked in the live timing app. It was the right strategy for Romain. They were covering Vettel. Vettel was 3.8 seconds behind Romain and lapping almost a second a lap faster on lap 38. Vettel would have been equally quick in his in-lap when he pitted on lap 39. Romain covers him by pitting on lap 40 and comes out only 1.4 seconds ahead of Vettel. Vettel would have had him if he had waited another lap.

Kimi was behind Vettel before Vettel pitted and 10 seconds ahead of Alonso, and Kimi was lapping more than a second a lap faster than Romain at that point. So he had more options.

Romain would have easily lost track position to Vettel if he had stayed out longer. He had no choice but to pit given the lap times he was doing relative to Vettel.

Edited by boldhakka, 29 December 2012 - 16:27.