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Formula 5000 racing


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#1 Prototype

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 06:26

As an addition to my post yesterday about my youtube video, search on youtube "Formula 5000 racing" and you'll see a shot of Kenny Smith. The video features interviews with F5000 aces Kevin Bartlett, Kenny Smith, and current drivers Tony Roberts, Michael Lyons, Ken James, Sefton Gibb and Judy Lyons.

I'd like some feedback to see if I'm on the right track to create a full documentary on these cars and drivers.

cheers, Andrew


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#2 Jerry Entin

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 13:28

Here is Andrew's you tube video:

#3 JacnGille

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 15:02

Here is Andrew's you tube video:


:up:

#4 oldtransamdriver

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 19:55

Keep it going - love those cars!

Robert Barg

#5 goffer

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 07:54

I'd like some feedback to see if I'm on the right track to create a full documentary on these cars and drivers.

cheers, Andrew


Andrew - you are definately on the right track - good quality visuals and sound, lots of mechanical & human angles you could explore with the revival of these fabulous machines and their many varied owners and pilots. Some are do-it-yourselfers, others can afford to pay for the prep & running of their machines, but all combine to make a wonderful spectacle of thunderous racing machines. Look forward to more of your vids - the F5000's are coming to Melbourne GP again soon + Phillip Island. For me the sound they make is much more visceral & rewarding than shrieking computer controlled 2.4 V8's .....

Edited by goffer, 11 February 2010 - 07:55.


#6 john aston

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 19:05

Couldn't agree more- I loved the sound of the V10s - especially the Toyota which made the most extraordinary variety of howls, bellows and rumbles when listened to live - but the daft little V8s fail to entrance to the same degree. I attended the first F5000 meeting in Uk as a marshal and have been addicted to the sound of stockblock V8s ever since.I so well remember the unbelievable volume of a pack of F5000s- lapping Mallory Park especially, where there was no respite. I fuel the addiction at my local dragstrip - plenty of heavy metal thunder there!

#7 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 21:16

Couldn't agree more- I loved the sound of the V10s - especially the Toyota which made the most extraordinary variety of howls, bellows and rumbles when listened to live - but the daft little V8s fail to entrance to the same degree. I attended the first F5000 meeting in Uk as a marshal and have been addicted to the sound of stockblock V8s ever since.I so well remember the unbelievable volume of a pack of F5000s- lapping Mallory Park especially, where there was no respite. I fuel the addiction at my local dragstrip - plenty of heavy metal thunder there!

F5000 for F1 !!!

#8 Giraffe

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 21:41

If Formula 5000 still existed today, I wonder what the cars would look like. In period and especially in the early days of the formula, they mimicked F1 cars. What direction would they possibly have gone in???

Edited by Giraffe, 11 February 2010 - 21:51.


#9 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 22:41

If Formula 5000 still existed today, I wonder what the cars would look like. In period and especially in the early days of the formula, they mimicked F1 cars. What direction would they possibly have gone in???

Probably much the same, though the engine weight and torque would make a difference. Though limit it to 5 L pushrod production V8s the engines would be a lot cheaper and still have 750 hp. But ofcourse with basic engines that have not been mainstream since at latest about 2002. At least 4 engines. small block Chev, Ford Windsor[ or a Cleveland for the masocist], Holden V8 and A block Chrysler and maybe Leyland V8 [Alloy Buick] AMC .
The Ford, Mopar and Chev are ofcourse used in 358 ci limit in Nascar, though those engines are really not stock block racing anymore, especially the Toyota.

#10 Stephen W

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 09:45

Probably much the same, though the engine weight and torque would make a difference. Though limit it to 5 L pushrod production V8s the engines would be a lot cheaper and still have 750 hp. But ofcourse with basic engines that have not been mainstream since at latest about 2002. At least 4 engines. small block Chev, Ford Windsor[ or a Cleveland for the masocist], Holden V8 and A block Chrysler and maybe Leyland V8 [Alloy Buick] AMC .
The Ford, Mopar and Chev are ofcourse used in 358 ci limit in Nascar, though those engines are really not stock block racing anymore, especially the Toyota.


Not forgetting the Cosworth V6 engines that were also very succesful.

I suspect that with the big money manufacturers having monopolies of engine supplies in a lot of the single seater racing formulas I would have thought one of the them would have latched onto F5000 in the same way. Personally I am glad F5000 stopped as we now have a era of motor sport encapsulated for all time.

:cool:

#11 RA Historian

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 15:08

The Ford, Mopar and Chev are ofcourse used in 358 ci limit in Nascar, though those engines are really not stock block racing anymore, especially the Toyota.

Quite right, which is why I prefer to call them "pushrod" engines instead of the misleading 'stock block'.
Tom

#12 charles r

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 16:15

Not forgetting the Cosworth V6 engines that were also very succesful.

I suspect that with the big money manufacturers having monopolies of engine supplies in a lot of the single seater racing formulas I would have thought one of the them would have latched onto F5000 in the same way. Personally I am glad F5000 stopped as we now have a era of motor sport encapsulated for all time.

:cool:

Totally agree. :up:

#13 timnevinson

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 17:05

"If Formula 5000 still existed today, I wonder what the cars would look like. In period and especially in the early days of the formula, they mimicked F1 cars. What direction would they possibly have gone in???"

Probably off, backwards, at a high speed...........
seriously though i remember mentioning some years ago that th Ausy touring cars adapt a 4 litre alloy four cam stock block formula, and the same applies to F5000 I think, maybe 5 litre these days, and no flat cranks. Just think of all the grea manufacturers that could be represented, Jag, Maserati, Merc, Ford, Audi, BMW plus many more.

#14 eldougo

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 01:57

Posted Image

The great Max Stewart sliding the ElfinMR5Repco onto the straight at OranPark 1972. you can see the smoke coming of the rear r/h tyre a common sight for the wonderful cars. the" Jolly Green Giant" as he was known was good at it.As well as our own TNFer K.B. :up:

#15 Dale Harvey

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 22:06

Posted Image

The great Max Stewart sliding the ElfinMR5Repco onto the straight at OranPark 1972. you can see the smoke coming of the rear r/h tyre a common sight for the wonderful cars. the" Jolly Green Giant" as he was known was good at it.As well as our own TNFer K.B. :up:


The picture isn't real clear, but that looks like Max's old car in the background. The Mildren Waggott, possibly driven at that time by Allan Grice?

Dale.

#16 eldougo

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 00:13

I thought it might have been Ken Goodwin.

#17 Prototype

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 00:39

I was there that day at Oran Park, it was the "Belle Trophy" Gold Star race; Matich pulverised the opposition - but what I really remember is some of the 5000s exiting BP corner onto the main straight, Stewart, Bartlett and Matich were leaving 100 metre long black strips of rubber each and every lap as they fought wheelspin, a mighty demonstration of brute power and car control. Matich would plant his right foot and the car would stay relatively straight, whereas Stewart's Elfin would pitch into lurid oversteering slides, Max one armed opposite locking. Bartlett's Lola with long, more progressive slides and his amazingly quick and deft hands were a joy to watch. Each and every lap almost kissing the wall on exit. 38 years on I remember it like yesterday.

Later in about 1975 I saw Stewart's Lola T400 rhr wheel hit the wall hard on exit (raising a shower of sparks) and never for a moment did he lift. Those guys were masters!

#18 eldougo

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 03:19

Posted Image

Taken by a friend of mine 1971 (Fred Chessell) the color is wrong they came off a slide how old is that Slides??? Soooooo yesterday.
Clockwise ...... K.B...... BobbyMuir.....Matich.....Bobby and Frank.


#19 tania34

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 08:34

Posted Image

The great Max Stewart sliding the ElfinMR5Repco onto the straight at OranPark 1972. you can see the smoke coming of the rear r/h tyre a common sight for the wonderful cars. the" Jolly Green Giant" as he was known was good at it.As well as our own TNFer K.B. :up:

:up:
What a fantastic shot. Max may be gone but definately not forgotten. I have one from Phillip Island 1976 in the then dusty pits.
This is the perfect thread for some more photos of F5000's. I am looking forward to a lot more :)


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#20 roblegin

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:48

Posted Image HP v Traction F5000 style, Gethin v Evans.


I remember this photo! I think it was used as a front cover shot from Motor Sport in 1974? Classic shot and really gets over the power - traction element of F5000 racing. Its a shame it cant portray the sound and earth trembling of a grid full of F5000's leaving the start line.

Happy days :)

#21 eldougo

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:52

Posted Image 1975 Tasman round Sandown Park.

#22 Giraffe

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:17

This is the perfect thread for some more photos of F5000's. I am looking forward to a lot more :)


Hopefully not scanned out of books and magazines................ :well:


#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:26

Originally posted by Dale Harvey
The picture isn't real clear, but that looks like Max's old car in the background. The Mildren Waggott, possibly driven at that time by Allan Grice?


Correct... I think it was Allan's first drive of the car...

He had a bingle in the opening laps and had to change the nose. The replacement had a nice big number '6' on it and Max Stewart's lead in the race grew by a lap almost every lap. Results for the race were held up for days as a result.

#24 timnevinson

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 21:01

what I love about that Gethin/Evans picture is that as well as the power, noise and glory, on the front row of the grid are two totally different approaches to the formula. That's what I miss.

#25 Wirra

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:08

Max Stewart
Posted Image

Teddy Pilette
Posted Image

Graham McRae
Posted Image

#26 eldougo

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 22:19

Pics taken at Tasman meeting Warwick Farm 1971& 72 .I did not see Teddy ride the wall that day ( missed it by that much)

#27 Bondy

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 22:53

Posted Image 1975 Tasman round Sandown Park.


Thats actually the 1976 Rothmans Sandown Round 1
John Cannon leading Bruce Allison, John Leffler, John Goss and John Walker. Cannon would win this race with the air box leaning over iirc.... I have'nt seen that book for over 20 years....

#28 Wirra

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 02:50

Bondy - Can you name this F5000 driver?

Posted Image


#29 Bondy

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:50

Bondy - Can you name this F5000 driver?

Posted Image


Is it C Bond?

Nah, it was trick question for the young fella's like me..... It will be Frank Radasich.....

Edited by Bondy, 26 February 2010 - 03:58.


#30 Wirra

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:00

Damn... yet another senior moment. I thought it was Colin Bond but a records search suggest Frank Radisich. IIRC Bond did drive it at some stage though...right?

Here is Radisich the year before in an M10A
Posted Image

Edited by Wirra, 26 February 2010 - 06:03.


#31 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:04

Would I be right in remembering that Frank Radisichs dad also raced? And did I read somewhere that Pauls son? is good on karts?
Or am I becoming senile!!

#32 Bondy

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:16

Damn... yet another senior moment. I thought it was Colin Bond but a records search suggest Frank Radisich. IIRC Bond did drive it at some stage though...right?

Here is Radisich the year before in an M10A
Posted Image


Yep Bondy raced it, hence why i initially answered C Bond, then i remembered that Frank later ran the car...

#33 David McKinney

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:31

Would I be right in remembering that Frank Radisichs dad also raced? And did I read somewhere that Pauls son? is good on karts?
Or am I becoming senile!!

Pretty sure Frank was the first generation to race. If his father did before him he didn't make any impact


#34 fredeuce

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 07:11

As this thread has a general F5000 theme here is a pic posted elsewhere on this site. Seems to fit here too. Colin Hyams Lola T192 at Mallala Easter 1971


Posted Image


#35 Wirra

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 07:53

fredeunce - Did we establish if it was the one Frank Gardner drove?
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#36 Giraffe

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:53

Autosport this week reports that the original ex-Peter Gethin semi-works M10A/1 that was run by Church Farm Racing (Bernard Hender, Derek Bell's stepfather) in 1969 in the inaugural season of F5000 in the UK/Europe is being restored by Duncan Fox of Group 7 Sportscars for owner Tony Roberts, CEO of New Zealand's new Hampton Downs circuit.
After winning the European championship, it was replaced by a M10B and went to Paddy Driver in South Africa for 1970. It is reportedly being restored in it's original high-wing spec for the 2011 season.

Here are two pics I took of it at Oulton Park in September 1969.

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2010-02-26

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2010-02-26

#37 David McKinney

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 10:13

fredeunce - Did we establish if it was the one Frank Gardner drove?

I'm not fredeuce, but yes, it was


#38 Muz Bee

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 10:24

Autosport this week reports that the original ex-Peter Gethin semi-works M10A/1 that was run by Church Farm Racing (Bernard Hender, Derek Bell's stepfather) in 1969 in the inaugural season of F5000 in the UK/Europe is being restored by Duncan Fox of Group 7 Sportscars for owner Tony Roberts, CEO of New Zealand's new Hampton Downs circuit.
After winning the European championship, it was replaced by a M10B and went to Paddy Driver in South Africa for 1970. It is reportedly being restored in it's original high-wing spec for the 2011 season.

I was of the belief that the car being restored by Duncan Fox was acquired from Paddy Driver and was the M10B of Gethin. I will make enquiries should someone else not definitely have the answer on this.

Love those M10s, so 60s F1, more than hints of the beautiful M7s of '68. Looked great in Crown Lynn colours too. Thanks for the shot of McRae #22 Wirra - damn he was so aggressive and quick.

Edited by Muz Bee, 26 February 2010 - 10:26.


#39 Wirra

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 12:40

I put these photos on the 'Australian Photos' thread but they can also sit here.
Matich M10A
Posted Image

Matich, Brown (?) and Stewart but I don't know who in what looks like another Matich car
Posted Image

Brown(?) & O'Sullivan(?)
Posted Image

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#40 fredeuce

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 21:26

I'm not fredeuce, but yes, it was



Thanks for clafiying that David . I thought so too.

#41 Giraffe

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 22:04

I was of the belief that the car being restored by Duncan Fox was acquired from Paddy Driver and was the M10B of Gethin. I will make enquiries should someone else not definitely have the answer on this.


Gethin's M10B is in the UK with Mark Longmore, seen here on the HSCC stand at the recent Autosport International show.

Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2010-01-17

Tony Roberts is actually quoted in Autosport as saying he is going to build it up in "the original high wing specification". By the time I pictured the M10A earlier in this thread Muz Bee, high wings had already gone, and no M10B ever had high wings, so if the "quote" is true, it must be the M10A.


#42 eldougo

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 05:06

[quote name='Wirra' date='Feb 26 2010, 22:40' post='4176227'

Matich, Brown (?) and Stewart but I don't know who in what looks like another Matich car
Posted Image

The only other driver of that time J. Walker in a Matich A50 but that was 1973 .and Max had a Lola 5000 and W.Brown was in a Lola. I take it was taken at the Farm?

#43 Leo D

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 06:18

[quote name='eldougo' post='4178852' date='Feb 27 2010, 05:06'][quote name='Wirra' date='Feb 26 2010, 22:40' post='4176227'

Matich, Brown (?) and Stewart but I don't know who in what looks like another Matich car


The only other driver of that time J. Walker in a Matich A50 but that was 1973 .and Max had a Lola 5000 and W.Brown was in a Lola. I take it was taken at the Farm?[/quote]

Can I put a vote in for the Horden Trophy meeting November 1972? Warwick Brown, Max Srewart, Johnny Walker, Frank Matich :wave:

Edited by Leo D, 27 February 2010 - 06:20.


#44 eldougo

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 06:34

Thanks Leo D. :up:

#45 hansfohr

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 07:18

Matich, Brown (?) and Stewart but I don't know who in what looks like another Matich car

Left to right:
Warwick Brown, McLaren M10B [#400-19]
Max Stewart, Elfin MR5 [#5722]
Johnny Walker, Matich A50 [#004]
Frank Matich, Matich A50 [#002]

BTW I also vote for the Horden Trophy. :clap:

Edited by hansfohr, 27 February 2010 - 07:24.


#46 Wirra

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 07:47

Brown(?) & O'Sullivan(?)
Posted Image

Still after any confirmation on this one?

hansfohr - It's a bit humiliating for me to have been there and taken the photos and then 38 years later to be told by a Dutchman who are the drivers and cars, but thank you. The wonder of TNF.

eldougo - Thank you for the email setting out your experience in motorsport... I'm now on anti-depressants!

Edited by Wirra, 27 February 2010 - 07:48.


#47 Leo D

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 07:51

Still after any confirmation on this one?

hansfohr - It's a bit humiliating for me to have been there and taken the photos and then 38 years later to be told by a Dutchman who are the drivers and cars, but thank you. The wonder of TNF.

eldougo - Thank you for the email setting out your experience in motorsport... I'm now on anti-depressants!



I'm willing to vote for that being Warwick Brown in Pat Bourkes McLaren leading Don O'Sullivan

Edit: Maybe Howie Sangster (Sp?) in the second car?

Edited by Leo D, 27 February 2010 - 07:58.


#48 Terry Marshall

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 07:57

Left to right:
Warwick Brown, McLaren M10B [#400-19]
Max Stewart, Elfin MR5 [#5722]
Johnny Walker, Matich A50 [#004]
Frank Matich, Matich A50 [#002]

BTW I also vote for the Horden Trophy. :clap:






Hi Guys.

FYI, for those of you out there who followed the F5000 days in the 70's in NZ, there are 90 something pages, of photographs and words, including 22 on G.P.McRae, in my book

The MotorSport photography of Terry Marshall, published last year by HarperCollins.

Best of my knowledge, the book is available in Australia, and listed with Amazon.

Kind regards. Terry.

#49 horizon

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 17:00

Terry,
When"s the NEXT book due out ???
we want more.

cheers





#50 timnevinson

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 20:55

Hi Guys.

FYI, for those of you out there who followed the F5000 days in the 70's in NZ, there are 90 something pages, of photographs and words, including 22 on G.P.McRae, in my book

The MotorSport photography of Terry Marshall, published last year by HarperCollins.

Best of my knowledge, the book is available in Australia, and listed with Amazon.

Kind regards. Terry.



Its Brilliant!