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#51 GD66

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 07:20

Certainly is a ripper. I spent quite a while peering through the crowd in the Bay Park pics trying to find myself and my buddies. Jeez you used to get in there pretty close, Terry, you must have gone to the pub afterwards quite covered in rubber and brake dust and grime !
Hats off for a great job ! :clap:

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#52 hansfohr

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 09:24

Black/white images which I shot at Zandvoort in 1973: it features Graham McRae's McRae GM1 which is probably interesting for you guys Down Under. It brings back great memories. I'll never forget the nice atmosphere in the F5000 paddock and the hammering sound of the Chevy's!

This very chassis [#015] is the last ever built McRae F5000 car and ended up Down Under in 1978.

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Since 2000 [#015] is owned by New Zealander Stewart Lush. Last year he ran it in the Tasman Cup Revival Series, surprisingly in the same 'Iberia Airlines' livery and with the same startnumber!

(source: oldracingcars.com)
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Edited by hansfohr, 28 February 2010 - 10:11.


#53 hansfohr

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 09:54

Zandvoort 1973 again: this is Chris Craft's Chevron B24 [B24-73-07] which was purchased by Aaron Lewis in 2005. Why are all these great cars ending up in Oz?? I am living in the wrong country apparently, I'd love to be reunited with 'my' F5000 cars......

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Edited by hansfohr, 28 February 2010 - 10:05.


#54 Giraffe

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 10:59

Why are all these great cars ending up in Oz?? I am living in the wrong country apparently, I'd love to be reunited with 'my' F5000 cars......


Well hansfohr, if you had come to Oulton Park last summer for the 40th Anniversary re-union of F5000 cars and drivers, you would have been reunited with a fair number of them.........

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By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-08-31

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By giraffe138 at 2010-02-28

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By giraffe138 at 2010-02-28

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By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-08-30

L to R, Gordon Spice, Bob Marston (Chief Engineer at Lola who developed the T300-T330-T332 family with Frank Gardner), Terry Sanger, Ian Ashley, Kaye Griffiths, Mike Walker, twice champion (1973 & 75) Teddy Pilette, John Bowtell (hidden), Tony Trimmer, Alan Rollinson ,Steve Thompson, Dave Berry (partly hidden), legendary entrant Sid Taylor, Patrick Sumner and Trevor Twaites.

Edited by Giraffe, 28 February 2010 - 12:33.


#55 hansfohr

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 15:40

Well hansfohr, if you had come to Oulton Park last summer for the 40th Anniversary re-union of F5000 cars and drivers, you would have been reunited with a fair number of them.........
Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-08-31

Almighty, that's truly amazing. Great images! I'll move over to the UK right away. LOL


#56 alansart

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 16:57

Almighty, that's truly amazing. Great images! I'll move over to the UK right away. LOL


It was a very good meeting.

My photos Here


#57 hansfohr

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 18:09

It was a very good meeting. My photos Here

AWSOME! :clap:

The last ever F5000 race on Dutch soil took place on May 19th 1975. This is Richard Scott's McKechnie Racing Lola T400 [#HU8] in the Zandvoort pitlane. He finished 3rd behind the identical VDS cars of Peter Gethin and Teddy Pilette.

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Guy Edwards' Encyclopedia Brittanica Lola T332 [#HU34]

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Edited by hansfohr, 28 February 2010 - 18:26.


#58 Wirra

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 01:54

A better shot of John Walker in the Matich
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Edited by Wirra, 01 March 2010 - 02:00.


#59 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 03:00

A better shot of John Walker in the Matich
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And who is following him in the Elfin? Garrie or another Elfin driver.

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#60 Bondy

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 03:15

And who is following him in the Elfin? Garrie or another Elfin driver.


John Mac.... Not sure if its been mentioned but would he be one of the few drivers to wear an open faced helmet in a open wheeler into the latish 70s? i have seen pics as late as 1977....

#61 Wirra

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 05:29

I think this is probably Garrie.
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#62 Leo D

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 06:39

I think this is probably Garrie.


Wirra...... I'm with Bondy, John McCormack in the open helmet, Garrie Cooper in the full face..

Regarding the Warwick Brown pic ID..... did you see my post,? Warwick Brown in the Pat Bourke McLaren, followed by Howie Sangster in the Don O'Sullivan Mclaren being my guess. Probably at the same 1972 Horden Trophy Meeting at Warwick Farm as the grid shot ???


#63 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 06:42

Great stuff there, guys...

Isn't it strange that in the antepodes the first country to do away with F5000s is now their greatest adherent?

#64 GD66

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:12

Slow thinkers, but quick learners, Ray. Personally I could never understand at the time why THEY would want to substitute a cost-effective formula with a spiral-costing replacement of dubious logic. But that's just me.... :rolleyes:

#65 Wirra

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:35

Just reviving some Tasman memories on this fabulous site http://www.sergent.c...tor/tas71a.html and noted how in 1971 Warwick Farm only pulled in 20,000 spectators. I don't think the decline really had much to do any formula being run, rather a change in public interest generally.

Leo D - thanks for the Sangster ID.

Edited by Wirra, 01 March 2010 - 07:37.


#66 Terry Marshall

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 08:04

Certainly is a ripper. I spent quite a while peering through the crowd in the Bay Park pics trying to find myself and my buddies. Jeez you used to get in there pretty close, Terry, you must have gone to the pub afterwards quite covered in rubber and brake dust and grime !
Hats off for a great job ! :clap:







Thanks for the kind words. Bay Park was a great little circuit. Pity they didn't get to run a full Tasman round
there. Funnily enough, I could get as close to the action to photograph at Levin, Pukekohe and Wigram.
Your right about the beer. It would be a race down to the Paerata after Puke, over the Kaimai to Okarire after Bay Park , the Russley after Wigram (excuse the pub spellings). Cant remember the one we went to after Levin, but it was a swiller
on the way back to Wellington.

Back to the book. If the first one works well enough there might well be a second.

Cheers. Terry.

#67 hansfohr

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 08:29

And who is following him in the Elfin? Garrie or another Elfin driver.

I think the Elfin driver is John McCormack. He had an open faced helmet whereas Garrie Cooper wore an integral helmet.

Pics from Sandown Park 1973:
John McCormack: http://www.sergent.c...or/73pic18b.jpg
Garrie Cooper: http://www.sergent.c...tor/73pic7b.jpg

Edited by hansfohr, 01 March 2010 - 10:17.


#68 Stephen W

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 10:12

Posted Image
Roy Lane in 1971 in his McLaren M10B at Doune

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Tony Dean in 1974 in his Chevron B24 at Harewood

:wave:

#69 Giraffe

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 10:20

Great stuff there, guys...

Isn't it strange that in the antepodes the first country to do away with F5000s is now their greatest adherent?


I beg to differ, Ray! We have the Derek Bell HSCC series and we had the wonderful 40th anniversary re-union at Oulton Park last year. There are a multitude of F5000 cars of varying vintage to be seen over here, and we even send a contingent down to your part of the world to support you!
Having said that, I'd love to see some of the cars and drivers from Australia and New Zealand come and race in the UK. :love:


#70 Stephen W

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 10:25

I beg to differ, Ray! We have the Derek Bell HSCC series and we had the wonderful 40th anniversary re-union at Oulton Park last year. There are a multitude of F5000 cars of varying vintage to be seen over here, and we even send a contingent down to your part of the world to support you!
Having said that, I'd love to see some of the cars and drivers from Australia and New Zealand come and race in the UK. :love:


They did a few years back, as I remember seeing various Southern Hemisphere Cars & Drivers at the Silverstone Classic.

:wave:

#71 hansfohr

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 10:27

Posted Image
Tony Dean in 1974 in his Chevron B24 at Harewood :wave:

Superb pics Stephen! My old schoolmate Roelof Wunderink wrote off Tony Dean's car [#001] during a test at Zandvoort in 1975. I got a pic somewhere of that demolished chassis, only showing the backend and the engine (the rest was covered).

#72 Giraffe

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 10:29

They did a few years back, as I remember seeing various Southern Hemisphere Cars & Drivers at the Silverstone Classic.

:wave:


Our lot seem to go down under every year! Recession? What recession??? :wave:

Edited by Giraffe, 01 March 2010 - 10:29.


#73 Ellis French

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:04

QUOTE (Lee Nicolle @ Mar 1 2010, 04:00)
And who is following him in the Elfin? Garrie or another Elfin driver.

John Mac.... Not sure if its been mentioned but would he be one of the few drivers to wear an open faced helmet in a open wheeler into the latish 70s? i have seen pics as late as 1977....


John Mac is about and well on east Coast of Tas and slowly restoring his F5000
Ellis

#74 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:06

Originally posted by Giraffe
I beg to differ, Ray! We have the Derek Bell HSCC series and we had the wonderful 40th anniversary re-union at Oulton Park last year. There are a multitude of F5000 cars of varying vintage to be seen over here.....


But you, at a guess, aren't in the antepodes...

That was the point I was making, the Kiwis abandoned F5000 for Atlantics, Australia didn't do that for another four or five years. But now the Kiwis have the best collection of F5000s South of the Equator.

#75 ellrosso

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:19

Hindsight is a great thing.To think we went from 5 litre V8 open-wheelers to Formula Pacific seems almost incomprehensible today, but back then, half baked fields of F5000's and F2's in processional races with half the field retiring, were'nt pulling the fans away from torrid battles between HO's, XU-1's and Chargers, A9X's and Cobras or Moffat, Jane, Geoghegan etc in their Mustangs, Camaro's etc, etc - or Sports Sedans with McCormack, Thommo, Jane etc, etc.
Last year at E Creek, when 20 well funded, well prepared F5000's went pouring into Turn 1 at full noise, was like motor racing nirvana - if only we had that in the 70's!
All came down to money though, usually only the top 4 or 6 cars were properly funded at best. Remember Chas Talbot or John Wright, those guys were doing it on barely the smell of an oily rag. I can still vividly recall the Wright crew rocking up for practice at the Baskerville 1981 Gold Star round , AP5 Valiant wagon with Lola T400 on trailer. Or passing Talbot driving his old truck away from a wet Sandown, broken Lola T332 in the back. Hats of to them, but we just didn't have enough money to keep the formula alive.
Regards, ellrosso




#76 hansfohr

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:42

All came down to money though, usually only the top 4 or 6 cars were properly funded at best. Remember Chas Talbot or John Wright, those guys were doing it on barely the smell of an oily rag. I can still vividly recall the Wright crew rocking up for practice at the Baskerville 1981 Gold Star round , AP5 Valiant wagon with Lola T400 on trailer. Or passing Talbot driving his old truck away from a wet Sandown, broken Lola T332 in the back. Hats of to them, but we just didn't have enough money to keep the formula alive. Regards, ellrosso

Of course F5000 suffered exactly the same fate in Europe (ending up in the Aurora AFX F1 series) and the US (where they were converted into CanAm cars). It was in fact a prelude to the demise of those wonderful rollercoasters.

Edited by hansfohr, 01 March 2010 - 11:44.


#77 David McKinney

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:48

Your right about the beer. It would be a race down to the Paerata after Puke, over the Kaimai to Okarire after Bay Park , the Russley after Wigram (excuse the pub spellings). Cant remember the one we went to after Levin, but it was a swiller
on the way back to Wellington.

DB Paerata or the Jolly Farmer after Puke, the Willow Inn - was it? - in Tauranga after Bay Park (but then we did stay there), the Oxford after Levin (or sometimes the New Levin) and the Russley sounds right for Wigram
Happy days!


#78 Alan Cox

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 12:13

Cant remember the one we went to after Levin, but it was a swiller

Cheers. Terry.

Can we northern softies have a translation, please? Does this mean it was good, bad or indifferent? :)

#79 Wirra

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 12:42

Can we northern softies have a translation, please? Does this mean it was good, bad or indifferent? :)

Sorry, but I don't quite understand... is there such a thing as a 'bad' or 'indifferent' one?

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#80 David McKinney

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 14:26

Can we northern softies have a translation, please? Does this mean it was good, bad or indifferent? :)

Not a term I, as a countryman of TM's, know, but I can guess...
In some places the breweries constructed huge bars, one big room almost the size of a football field. We called them booze barns, and they existed for the sole purpose of getting as much booze as possible down punters' throats, as quickly as possible - like swill into pigs. I know there was one between Levin and Wellington, and that might be the one Terry's referring to

I hasten to add there were more pleasant drinking establishments as well, and by the time I left NZ 25 years ago some very charming smaller bars were opening up

At the risk of getting too far OT, during the First World War NZ brought in compulsory closing at 6pm, and didn't quite get around to lifting it until 1967. This gave rise to the "six o'clock swill", where people (almost exclusively males) would leave work at 5pm and rush to the boozer, to swill as much as possible before closing time. Although I suspect Terry is referring to a slightly later period, the booze barns would have been built in the Bad Old Days

#81 Giraffe

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 15:15

In some places the breweries constructed huge bars, one big room almost the size of a football field. We called them booze barns, and they existed for the sole purpose of getting as much booze as possible down punters' throats, as quickly as possible - the booze barns would have been built in the Bad Old Days


They don't sound much like Bad Old Days to me, David! Booze Barns; a natural progression from Wetherspoons............ :smoking:

Edited by Giraffe, 01 March 2010 - 15:17.


#82 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 20:12

Originally posted by ellrosso
Hindsight is a great thing.To think we went from 5 litre V8 open-wheelers to Formula Pacific seems almost incomprehensible today, but back then, half baked fields of F5000's and F2's in processional races with half the field retiring, weren't pulling the fans away from torrid battles between HO's, XU-1's and Chargers, A9X's and Cobras or Moffat, Jane, Geoghegan etc in their Mustangs, Camaro's etc, etc - or Sports Sedans with McCormack, Thommo, Jane etc.....


Not really...

The real low point in F5000 came in 1978, well after 'Jane, Geoghegan' and 'torrid battles between 'HOs and XU-1s and Chargers' had ended. Their day was spent in 1973, though Jane and Geoghegan did race on a little while after that. And don't forget that not all the HO/XU-1 races were 'torrid battles.'

You are right about 'processional races with half the field retiring,' however, and sadly so. But there were some good races too, very good ones, and IIRC the best of them right at the time NZ was making the decision to go elsewhere. The best F5000 race I saw was at Adelaide the year Schuppan was in the Reg Orr car and the US pair of Breidenberg and Briggs were there. A fabulous spectacle, plenty of cars and lots of close racing.

But there was more than just that. The Toby Lee Series at Oran Park brought out heaps of well prepared cars for the most part. The Hamilton/Alfie domination of the final days was probably the last straw.

#83 Giraffe

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 21:38

Were Breidenberg and Briggs run by Peter Gethin at that time, just as they were in their Formula 2 Chevrons?

#84 MCS

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 21:59

Were Breidenberg and Briggs run by Peter Gethin at that time, just as they were in their Formula 2 Chevrons?


I don't think so. They had two - or possibly even three - Lola T332s entered by Tropicana Hotels.

It was Don Briedenbach though, not Breidenberg. Always remember the monstrous Peterbilt (?) transporter they used in 1978 for their Formula Two endeavours.


#85 Giraffe

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 22:03

IIRC they ran in the Aurora series too?

#86 MCS

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 22:20

IIRC they ran in the Aurora series too?


Yes, I seem to recall they did - not sure how often though. They struggled to qualify at at some of the F2 rounds, so that's probably why they appeared in Aurora.

Edited by MCS, 01 March 2010 - 22:20.


#87 NZALPA

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 07:58

I don't think so. They had two - or possibly even three - Lola T332s entered by Tropicana Hotels.

It was Don Briedenbach though, not Breidenberg. Always remember the monstrous Peterbilt (?) transporter they used in 1978 for their Formula Two endeavours.


Stan Redmond is bringing his newly restored T332cs ex Tropicanna/ Briggs F5000 to PI and the AGP at the end of the month.

It is in Tropicana livery

#88 hansfohr

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 08:50

IIRC they ran in the Aurora series too?


Yes, I seem to recall they did - not sure how often though. They struggled to qualify at at some of the F2 rounds, so that's probably why they appeared in Aurora.

Breidenbach (not Briedenbach!) and Briggs competed in only two Aurora AFX rounds with limited results:
28.08.1978 Brands Hatch (Briggs 8th, Breidenbach 10th)
10.09.1978 Thruxton (Briggs 17th, Breidenbach 5th, 2nd in F2 class)

BTW Briggs himself ran the Chevrons in the F2 class ('Briggs Racing Enterprises'), their campaign was a huge disaster.

Edited by hansfohr, 02 March 2010 - 08:52.


#89 hansfohr

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 09:11

Were Breidenberg and Briggs run by Peter Gethin at that time, just as they were in their Formula 2 Chevrons?

I don't think so. They had two - or possibly even three - Lola T332s entered by Tropicana Hotels.

Only two entries.

BTW Breidenberg made it to the podium once (3rd Surfer's Paradise).

Edited by hansfohr, 02 March 2010 - 09:36.


#90 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 10:36

Made a right botch of that, didn't I?

Briedenbach or Breidenbach? I'd think the latter, but I'm open to correction... obviously!

I'm only talking about F5000 here. That race saw Vern Schuppan driving down the straight each lap holding down the cockpit bodywork after it came loose about middle distance. But he was still right amongst it all and there was a whole bunch of them contending for places. Almost as good a race as Longford '65. Very close.

The big thing about F5000s, however, is that even to a slightly interested spectator they are spectacular on their own.

#91 Pablomin

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 11:52

Hi chaps....

I only have one image of a F5000 from Roy Hesketh in South Africa.

Posted Image
It is Kipp Ackerman, probably going down Maritzburg Straight.

#92 Alan Cox

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 12:22

Posted elsewhere on the Peter Gethin thread, but may be of interest to F5000 enthusiasts
Peter followed closely by the smiling Dane, Tom Belso. Oulton Park 28th March 1975
Posted Image
Posted Image

#93 hansfohr

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 12:36

Hi chaps....

I only have one image of a F5000 from Roy Hesketh in South Africa.

Posted Image
It is Kipp Ackerman, probably going down Maritzburg Straight.

AFAIK F5000 never had their own championship in SA, wasn't their a classification for non F1-cars in the SA F1 championship?

#94 RA Historian

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 15:05

I don't think so. They had two - or possibly even three - Lola T332s entered by Tropicana Hotels.

It was Don Briedenbach though, not Breidenberg. Always remember the monstrous Peterbilt (?) transporter they used in 1978 for their Formula Two endeavours.

John Briggs and the Tropicana team was one of those efforts that came along, made a splash, and disappeared, all in the space of a few years.

Briggs ran a Lola T-332 in Tropicana livery in the 1976 US F-5000 series. Then, when F-5000 was foolishly killed off for the revived Can Am series, which really was just fendered F-5000s, Briggs ran two T-332s rebodied as T-333s for himself and Don Breidenbach. Briggs' best finish was a second at Road America, while Breidenbach won at Laguna Seca. Following that, as I recall, the two Lolas were rebodied back to F-5000 spec and taken 'down under' for the races in Australia and New Zealand in very early 1978. Briggs then bought some F-2 Chevrons and ran in Europe in the summer of 1978. For 1979 the team returned to the US and ran in the pro Formula Atlantic series using a small fleet of March 79Bs. They ran three cars at most events, still with Tropicana sponsorship.

The team faded away after that season, although Briggs appeared at some races a few years later with a Ralt RT-4, winning at Road America. I may well be wrong on this, but I seem to recall that there was some family connection between Briggs and the Tropicana Hotel.
Tom

#95 Pablomin

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 15:43

AFAIK F5000 never had their own championship in SA, wasn't their a classification for non F1-cars in the SA F1 championship?


Yeah, it seems there wasn't, he ran the car with the F1's, it is a McLaren-Chevrolet M10B

#96 barrykm

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 15:52

Hi chaps....

I only have one image of a F5000 from Roy Hesketh in South Africa.

Posted Image
It is Kipp Ackerman, probably going down Maritzburg Straight.


I think it may rather be at the end of the main straight just before Quarry, where in fact Kip got it all wrong later and put a dent or two in his always-immaculate car. I have a B&W pic of this somewhere


#97 hansfohr

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 16:12

As for Kip Ackermann: there was a thread about him: http://forums.autosp...wtopic=78605=

#98 hansfohr

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 16:44

Briggs then bought some F-2 Chevrons and ran in Europe in the summer of 1978.

A mechanic working on one of John Briggs' F2 Chevrons.

Posted Image

The John Briggs/Tropicana link is pretty clear: he is related to Mitzi Stauffer Briggs who owned the Tropicana Hotel in Las Vegas. She was the very wealthy niece of a chemical company owner, purchasing 51% of the hotel's stock in 1975. His mother probably?

Edited by hansfohr, 02 March 2010 - 21:12.


#99 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 21:49

Made a right botch of that, didn't I?

Briedenbach or Breidenbach? I'd think the latter, but I'm open to correction... obviously!

I'm only talking about F5000 here. That race saw Vern Schuppan driving down the straight each lap holding down the cockpit bodywork after it came loose about middle distance. But he was still right amongst it all and there was a whole bunch of them contending for places. Almost as good a race as Longford '65. Very close.

The big thing about F5000s, however, is that even to a slightly interested spectator they are spectacular on their own.

I agree totally, the 5000s are always a bit interesting to the casual spectator.
They can be oh so exciting, though at times they could be very boring too. When they were Australian Formula One a lot of the competitors were running on a shoestring so the breakdowns were too often, and often the competitors were walking wounded and there purely to finish.
But the cars were visually exciting and sounded exciting unlike the formula Pacific/ mondiale that replaced them.
Though I can remember watching some very exciting 5000 races on TV. Surprisingly I also saw some very good racing at Mallala in the 80s between Mike Trengove and Bob Minogue. Only 2 cars in a field of libre but some very good wheel to wheel [and closer] racing over normally 6-10 lap distances.

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#100 David McKinney

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 22:51

... the two Lolas were rebodied back to F-5000 spec and taken 'down under' for the races in Australia and New Zealand in very early 1978

There wouldn't have been much point in taking them to New Zealand - F5000 had died there two years earlier :)