Jump to content


Photo

Formula 5000 racing


  • Please log in to reply
310 replies to this topic

#251 Wirra

Wirra
  • Member

  • 883 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 09 August 2012 - 01:28

...The car was badly damaged and an ex-Matich tub was acquired to enable the car to be put back together...


Ray - In e-mail discussions with Derek when trying to establish the identity of the Llynden Reithmuller cars the conclusion (hypothesis?) was reached that only the skins of the Matich tub were available to repair the Brown tub. They had been taken from the Matich car when it was repaired after the Oran Park practice crash. Only the right side skins were salvageable which was all Brown needed. The re-skinned Matich M10C and went on to Frank Radisich well before Brown's accident.

Derek has a clipping from an RCN story about the Matich M10B/C rebuild including a photo of the skinless tub.

Edited by Wirra, 12 August 2012 - 08:44.


Advertisement

#252 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,727 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:34

That's certainly a bit of clarity I didn't have in 1972, Peter, thanks...

I was simply told that the tub had been replaced with one from Matich. No doubt by Peter Molloy or Warwick Brown as they were hurrying to get some job or other done. Or maybe even during the week as they were going about the exercise.

Nevertheless, your pic captures the car as it ran just that once. Its next outing, if I recall correctly, was with Bob Muir driving in Target colours at the end of the '73 Tasman Cup series.

#253 xj13v12

xj13v12
  • Member

  • 264 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:29

Thanks for that, it makes the present colour scheme perfectly understandable.


Does anyone have a photo of the Walker and Matich cars next to each other in colour? They ran front row at just one race and the Walker car was a slightly darker shade of orange than Frank's car.

I am asking permission to paint the car back to Walker's colours after I have run it for 12 years in Davo black.

#254 Wirra

Wirra
  • Member

  • 883 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:14

Not a single photo and may not be that meeting, nor would I trust the colour of the transparencies after all these years.

Posted Image

Posted Image


#255 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,727 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:28

There's a good photo, IIRC, of the Walker car at Amaroo in our F5000 Thunder book...

I think that's a fairly accurate colour.

#256 xj13v12

xj13v12
  • Member

  • 264 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:44

There's a good photo, IIRC, of the Walker car at Amaroo in our F5000 Thunder book...

I think that's a fairly accurate colour.


Yes page 268, I saw that. I have that cockpit surround and hope that underneath the black I can find some original Walker paint. I have other photos but they vary quite a bit as per the previous post by Wirra. That front row shot would be good to get but maybe doesn't exist in colour.
Out of curiosity would people prefer the car in Walker #25 orange livery? As you can see Davo retained that colour for at least one meeting so it covers the 2 main drivers.

#257 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,727 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:29

Yes, I think that's a thoroughly logical colour...

And the pic is of Davo in that colour anyway, I'd forgotten that.

#258 Dale Harvey

Dale Harvey
  • Member

  • 272 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 13 June 2013 - 21:30

Out of curiosity would people prefer the car in Walker #25 orange livery?

I would vote that way. I don't think black suits that car.

Dale.

#259 Wirra

Wirra
  • Member

  • 883 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 13 June 2013 - 23:13

I agree with Dale, black doesn't suit that car because it doesn't suit open-wheelers in general. The Shadows got away with it because of the unique sponsorship signage.

Advertisement

#260 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,637 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:25

Davisons car to me was memorable, though it was not pretty. But it was a bit different.

#261 xj13v12

xj13v12
  • Member

  • 264 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:48

Davisons car to me was memorable, though it was not pretty. But it was a bit different.


I thought seriously about doing the car in Southern Comfort white originally because it was red which was not an historic livery. Biggest problem with black is that it blends in with the tarmac and creates a genuine safety issue. If not for the white number it would be all but invisible. I can say from experience that the other 2 black F5000s I have often raced with can disappear in the mirrors whereas other colours leap into view even in the peripheral vision.

#262 richie

richie
  • Member

  • 412 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 14 June 2013 - 15:05

I was lucky enough to meet owner Jim Moore yesterday & sat in his Trojan T101, ex Keith Holland car entered by Ian Ward Racing. Currently up for sale. Fabulous car & ready to race- love to see it back on the track. Shame we didn't start her up.





Posted Image


The Trojan is still for sale & open to offers. Come on someone make an offer and let's see this car racing again.

#263 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,637 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:17

I thought seriously about doing the car in Southern Comfort white originally because it was red which was not an historic livery. Biggest problem with black is that it blends in with the tarmac and creates a genuine safety issue. If not for the white number it would be all but invisible. I can say from experience that the other 2 black F5000s I have often raced with can disappear in the mirrors whereas other colours leap into view even in the peripheral vision.

I think Walker had a bit more success with it? Was it then part of the City State Team? If so I reckon LC Torana orange would be the color.

#264 xj13v12

xj13v12
  • Member

  • 264 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:05

I think Walker had a bit more success with it? Was it then part of the City State Team? If so I reckon LC Torana orange would be the color.


That's a good tip Lee, thanks. Walker never ran the AGP in the car so I picked the colour that Davo came 4th at the AGP. Whether that's better than 2nd in a Tasman race is academic. I am now more concerned with being seen and after so many years in black a colour change adds some interest for me.

#265 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,727 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:16

From memory, Walker was no longer in the City-State team when he got the Matich...

What about asking the man himself?

#266 xj13v12

xj13v12
  • Member

  • 264 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 15 June 2013 - 20:13

From memory, Walker was no longer in the City-State team when he got the Matich...

What about asking the man himself?



I did but no answer yet. The City State was on the car at first, we will work it out.

#267 pressman

pressman
  • Member

  • 251 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:51

Hi
John Leck of the BARC has kindly given me some photos from the early seventies here are some F5000s
sorry no dates

Posted Image
II61 - Tony Dean, Guy Edwards. Bob Evans by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II59 - Steve Thompson (Chevron B24) by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II48 - Ray Allen leads Graham McRea by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II45 - Graham McRea (McRea GM1) by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II67 - Teddy Pilette (Chevron B24) by jones115, on Flickr



More to come
Cheers
Steve

#268 pressman

pressman
  • Member

  • 251 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:03

And a few more
Posted Image
II451 by jones115, on Flickr
Who`s that in the background ?
Posted Image
II407 by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II321 - Martin Birrane & Twaites by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II309 - Peter Gethin (Chevron B28) by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II308 - Eddie Keizan (Lola T332) by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II265 - Brian Redman (Lola T332) by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II252 - Peter Gethin in car by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II217 - Mike Wilds' March 74A by jones115, on Flickr








Cheers
Steve



#269 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,617 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:30

And a few more

Who`s that in the background ?

Could it be Dennis Leech, Chevron B24 - 6th September 1975?

#270 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,659 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:33

Posted Image

Ulf Norinder (Lola T190) blasts out of the pit lane on his 'formation lap' - Oulton Park

#271 elansprint72

elansprint72
  • Member

  • 3,322 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:00

And a few more
Cheers
Steve


Thanks for posting Steve, great to see these old shots.

EDIT- I should have said Steve and Steve!

Edited by elansprint72, 19 August 2013 - 10:01.


#272 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:09

Is it colour degradation, or did Norinder repaint his car after the Tasman series, when it was predominantly bronze?

#273 pressman

pressman
  • Member

  • 251 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:14

Thanks Pete here are even more

Posted Image
II143 - Graham McRae's McRae GM1 by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II141 - Steve Thompson's Chevron B24 by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II36 - Start of Race by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II11 - Jody Scheckter (Trojan T101) by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
II6 - Roger Williamson (Kitchmac) by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
AA43 - Frank Gardner's Lola T300 by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
AA32 - Rob Taylor's Kitchener K3A by jones115, on Flickr

Posted Image
AA30 - Dave Walker Lotus 70 by jones115, on Flickr

Cheers
Steve

#274 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,637 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 20 August 2013 - 22:55

That first pic has a lot happening. Obviously an engine change happening as they seem to be pulling bits off the engine upside down on the grass. Another is being operated on in the back of the truck. How times have changed. It must be in Oz with the Falcon wagon in the background.

And the decorative dolly blond to the right. I wonder how she has survived the years?



#275 paulsenna1

paulsenna1
  • Member

  • 246 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:11

 It must be in Oz with the Falcon wagon in the background.

 

 

It's Oulton Park I think.



#276 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,659 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:06

Is it colour degradation, or did Norinder repaint his car after the Tasman series, when it was predominantly bronze?

David, the car was sporting a gold and blue colour scheme - the colour has slightly faded due to it being a KODAK slide.



#277 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,637 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 22 August 2013 - 00:28

It's Oulton Park I think.

Meaning someone, Mcrae? imported in a XW Falcon wagon. I feel they were not exported to the UK at that period.



#278 wagons46

wagons46
  • Member

  • 267 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 22 August 2013 - 02:08

Meaning someone, Mcrae? imported in a XW Falcon wagon. I feel they were not exported to the UK at that period.


It's a XY if indeed it is a Falcon.

#279 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 5,668 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:58

Apparently there was a few Australian Falcons in England at the time. I have a feeling that a big dealership may have been importing them.
 



Advertisement

#280 opplock

opplock
  • Member

  • 113 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 22 August 2013 - 12:54

The GM1 is sponsored by Iberia Airlines so the photo must have been taken in Europe during the 1973 season. The transporter on the right looks very much like that in the following photo showing Steve Thompson as driver.  



#281 pressman

pressman
  • Member

  • 251 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 August 2013 - 13:03

Yes  Its Oulton Park

Heres some more

9536842572_423326f9df.jpg
II140 - Guy Edwards Lola T330 by jones115, on Flickr

 

 

9534056099_79241c78ab.jpg
II137 - Ray Allens's Lola T330 by jones115, on Flickr

 

9534045287_cca1cdfabb.jpg
AA31 - Alan Rollinson's Surtees TS5A by jones115, on Flickr

Steve


Edited by pressman, 22 August 2013 - 16:34.


#282 pressman

pressman
  • Member

  • 251 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 August 2013 - 13:08

Well that didn't work !!    any ideas  what I did wrong ?

Cheers

Confused on the Wirral ....



#283 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,859 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 22 August 2013 - 16:14

I'm guessing you tried to cut-and-paste in HTML from Flickr instead of whatever IP.Board's native language is.  Look for something with square brackets instead.



#284 pressman

pressman
  • Member

  • 251 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 August 2013 - 16:35

I'm guessing you tried to cut-and-paste in HTML from Flickr instead of whatever IP.Board's native language is.  Look for something with square brackets instead.

Thanks Allen   :up:

Steve



#285 SteveHolmes

SteveHolmes
  • Member

  • 60 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:10

As part of a collection of historic New Zealand motor racing photos taken by Bill Pottinger, and being uploaded to The Roaring Season motorsport history website. This is Ulf Norinder in his beautiful gold Lola T190, skipping over the bumps at Wigram in 1970. 

 

2hf1b7l.jpg



#286 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,727 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:28

Couldn't you have posted a photo of a less unsavoury character?

 

There were plenty of better blokes out there, both in terms of their personal behaviour and in their speed on the circuit.



#287 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:13

We don't often see trolling on TNF but this comes close :down:



#288 john aston

john aston
  • Member

  • 803 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:51

Couldn't you have posted a photo of a less unsavoury character?

 

There were plenty of better blokes out there, both in terms of their personal behaviour and in their speed on the circuit.

 I saw Norinder race in period - he didn't trouble the sharp end to often but so what? It's a great photo. And as for personal behaviour ...do we now have some rule that only saint like drivers can be portrayed? May be you are just dying to tell us the inside story ? I like the picture; end of story. 



#289 eldougo

eldougo
  • Member

  • 6,188 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:13

Tell us the real story Ray :wave:



#290 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,199 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:51

He already did:

 

http://forums.autosp...r/#entry2079249



#291 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,727 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:00

Originally posted by David McKinney

We don't often see trolling on TNF but this comes close

 

I'm not really sure what 'trolling' means, David, but I was appalled when Gary told me about this incident, I saw how upset he was and I knew what calibre of people he and Gloria were.

 

And the fact is that virtually every car looks like that over that bump and Wigram.



#292 RS250

RS250
  • Member

  • 64 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 04 September 2013 - 13:38

Whilst I agree totally with Rays opinion of Norinder, (and there are many more stories of a similar ilk relating to his various err, 'parties' - even Gordon Spice mentions them in his book) I do feel we would have very little to discuss if we began to airbrush from history anybody we felt to be unsavoury, there are an awful lot of skeletons in an awful lot of cupboards out there...

On a more positive note, Pressmans (first) pic of Steve Thompson in the Servis Chevron B24 at Mallory Park (Post 267) is the original, ex Brian Redman / Sid Taylor car, as featured testing at Oulton Park in the movie 'The Speed Merchants'. The second pic of Thompson (post 273) shows the replacement car after the original was destroyed.

Amazing that it has yet to reappear, something must have survived.....



#293 Bloggsworth

Bloggsworth
  • Member

  • 7,432 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 04 September 2013 - 15:03

Couldn't you have posted a photo of a less unsavoury character?

 

There were plenty of better blokes out there, both in terms of their personal behaviour and in their speed on the circuit.

 

If you wish to libel someone, have the courage to do it properly.



#294 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 04 September 2013 - 16:54

I do feel we would have very little to discuss if we began to airbrush from history anybody we felt to be unsavoury

I don't think anyone's suggesting Norinder (or anyone else) should be airbrushed out of history, but his off-track behaviour is irrelevant to the excellent photo shown

#295 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 5,668 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 September 2013 - 19:34

Quite a few Australian drivers had strange off track behaviors that people are willing to overlook. Pedophiles, wife bashers, crooks and con men.
Be careful who you hero worship, some of them are not worth it.

#296 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 3,530 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 08 September 2013 - 20:48

Could it be Dennis Leech, Chevron B24 - 6th September 1975?

Yes, indeed.  Practice shot, although I am slightly confused by the number of spectators around Gerard's in the background for a practice session.  Was it that well attended?

 

Yet another thumping F5000 shunt...

 

Given how long ago it was, I am somewhat baffled as to how well I can remember it - strange what the mind retains for no apparent reason. I have vivid recollections of a beautiful sunny morning which was followed by a bitterly cold afternoon.  I started the day at the hairpin and, via a trip to the paddock, watched the racing from the outside of Gerard's.

 

Richard Scott had been sacked by McKechnie and his Durex sponsorhip  was "transferred" to the John Turner Lola T330 with black Durex letters applied - all very odd. The T400 was driven by Bob Evans, despite the constant rumours of it being down to be raced by Keijo Rosberg.  The car was still decked out in full Durex livery, however.

 

What I remember most though - apart from the afternoon cold -  was the difference in sound of the three V6 entries i.e. Jones (RAM March), Purley (Lec Chevron) and Walkinshaw (Hermetite March).


Edited by MCS, 09 September 2013 - 06:30.


#297 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,727 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:00

Different exhaust systems?

 

The very thought of Keke Rosberg in a F5000 is exciting. Did he ever drive one?



#298 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:20

AFAIK only wide-bodied versions in what was then Cam-Am in 1978 and/or '79

#299 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 3,530 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:56

Different exhaust systems?

 

The very thought of Keke Rosberg in a F5000 is exciting. Did he ever drive one?

 

Yes, there's a logic to that - they were all possibly prepared by different tuners as well.

 

Never established whether Rosberg tested the car.  He didn't race it - Evans appeared again in the final round at Brands Hatch, although there was a mystery entry for Rosberg, listed on Old Racing Cars as "#77 Renoir International Racing / Did Not Arrive" - maybe there is a note in Autosport.  I remember Ian Phillips provided the report as it signalled the end of the strictly F5000 era before the advent of Group 8, Peter Gethin winning the very first and last races seven years apart.



Advertisement

#300 proviz

proviz
  • Member

  • 208 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 09 September 2013 - 13:28

Keke did test the McKechnie Lola T332 at Silverstone in late 1974, but it never led to anything.