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Ístereichring, Zeltweg, Spielberg, A1-Ring...


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#1 Steffe Ornerdal

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 19:31

"A Dear Child Has Many Names" as we say in Sweden.

Can anyone help me with the correct name of this great Austrian race track? And in which year/s the different names was used as "official"?

Kind regards
Stefan
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#2 Geoff E

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 19:41

Perhaps Darren Galpin's site is helpful http://www.etrackson...ia/austria.html

#3 AndreasF1

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 19:58

What was done to this track is one of the great crimes in Motor racing.
Herman Tilke completely ruined this track by giving us the A1-ring. :down:

#4 Stephen W

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 20:09

The Osterreichring was marvellous - it was fast, there were places to overtake and the views were fantastic.

The A1-Ring is a bit like Tesco's car park!

:|

#5 jj2728

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 20:39

What was done to this track is one of the great crimes in Motor racing.
Herman Tilke completely ruined this track by giving us the A1-ring. :down:


In the same vein Hockenheim springs to mind......

#6 Steffe Ornerdal

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 20:45

Thanks guys.

Geoff, that link was very helpful - but it's not Darren's I believe?

Beautiful place, I have only been there once, unfortunately not on a race day.

#7 longhorn

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 21:14

The Osterreichring was marvellous - it was fast, there were places to overtake and the views were fantastic.

The A1-Ring is a bit like Tesco's car park!

:|


Agreed. The original Osterreichring was a fabulous circuit on which to hold a Grand Prix. It really was GP racing in the grand manner. By 1984 the Hellalicht had been altered but the circuit retained it's original character. We borrowed a spade to dig ourselves a seat in the grass bank above the Boschkurve where the turbo cars were doing 210mph into the braking area.

Then along came Ecclestone and Tilke and now there is no race at all. If Spa could be shortened to the still splendid circuit which we know today, why could they not have done justice to the Osterreichring? Better to remember the glorious past than to endure mediocrity at the A1-Ring.

#8 Geoff E

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 21:32

Thanks guys.

Geoff, that link was very helpful - but it's not Darren's I believe?


Oh yes, beg pardon :blush:

The site came up when I googled using his name ... because of this page http://www.etrackson...acks/links.html


#9 David Shaw

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 22:08

Oh yes, beg pardon :blush:

The site came up when I googled using his name ... because of this page http://www.etrackson...acks/links.html


Here's the link for Darren's site:
http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/


#10 hansfohr

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 22:33

What was done to this track is one of the great crimes in Motor racing. Herman Tilke completely ruined this track by giving us the A1-ring. :down:

The fantastic ├ľsterreichring with all its daunting corners is 'perfectly' ditched, what a b***** shame that Tilke designed the horrible A1 Ring instead.

Posted Image

Edited by hansfohr, 10 February 2010 - 22:43.


#11 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 22:39

The fantastic ├ľsterreichring with all its daunting corners is 'perfectly' ditched, what a b***** shame that Tilke designed the horrible A1 Ring instead.

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I can only echo everyone else in their praise for the old circuit. I was there in 1970 and 1983 - the second time camping at the circuit. Only slight downside - the over-enthusiastic Police dog-handlers... There will never be circuits like that again.

#12 Gabrci

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 22:42

Fully agreed. The fantastic ├ľsterreichring with its daunting corners was a real challenge for men and machine, the A1 Ring is an utter joke. :well:

Posted Image


And a rare photo of Alessandro Pesenti-Rossi :)

#13 LittleChris

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:20

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :wave: but wasn't Jochen Rindt involved in the design of the Oesterrichring ? Wonder what we would end up with today if someone like Schumacher was asked to design a track to challenge the gods .......................... Las Vegas probably

#14 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:51

Being less than 20 I loved the A1-Ring and I think it's kind of unfair to shit on tracks just because they used to be better. All of life used to be better. Of course the O-Ring was an epic of a track but I'll take the A1-Ring over anything else Tilke's made from scratch.

#15 Dale Harvey

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 02:54

I saw my first F1 Grand Prix at the Ostereichring in 1976 and thought it was a fantastic place. What a huge shame to see what has happened to the place over the years.

Dale.

#16 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 03:12

Just getting back on track, so to speak...

'Zeltweg' was also a circuit which used runways and taxiways at a local airport, used for the Austrian Grand Prix before the fabulous Osterreichring was conceived and built.

As Jochen Rindt wasn't even in F1 then, I don't think he'd have been considered to be of enough importance to consult regarding the new circuit.

#17 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 06:44

Rindt made his World Championship F1 debut in the 1964 Austrian GP, held on the Zeltweg airfield circuit. The ├ľsterreichring opened in 1969. I don't know exactly when it was conceived, but I suspect it was after 1964. In which case Rindt would have been in F1 and as Austria's leading driver might well have been consulted.

#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 07:24

You could well be right of course...

But as I recall, even as they were putting the haybales away and cleaning up the ashes of Phil Hill's Cooper, there was talk of a permanent circuit to be built in the hills nearby.

#19 alfredaustria

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 09:53

Good morning from Austria
My first visit at the old ├ľsterreichring (without chicanes!) was 1973: Grand Prix and 1000 km-race.
I was also there at the very last event: the nissan and nissan-light-series (autumn 2003) - which became later world series of renault.
And of course many times between there. Not often the Grand Prix, because it became too expensive. But I enjoyed the 1000 km-race, later FIA-GT and also DTM.
Best wishes from a freezing Vienna
Alfred :wave:

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#20 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 11:09

Stefan,

I do not know exactly, but:
Before 1969 the GP of Austria and some other races were held on the airfield strip of Zeltweg. Here began the reference to this town.

In 1969 the Oestereichring was finished and inaugurated. Close to Zeltweg, but actually in the area of Spielberg village (walking distance), references have often been made as: "Austrian GP in/at Zeltweg, while the name of the track really was Oestereichring. Spielberg was never mentioned.

In 1995 Tilke ran his project for a modified track. I am not sure if it was already called A1 ring when the project started, but at least it was called A1 ring at the first GP at the new track, held in Spielberg in 1997. The new name for the track gave way to also naming the correct township.

#21 Stephen W

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 11:09

Rindt made his World Championship F1 debut in the 1964 Austrian GP, held on the Zeltweg airfield circuit. The ├ľsterreichring opened in 1969. I don't know exactly when it was conceived, but I suspect it was after 1964. In which case Rindt would have been in F1 and as Austria's leading driver might well have been consulted.


On my first visit to the ├ľsterreichring the coach passed by the Zeltweg airfield - they were just a few kilometres apart.

The Final corner at the ├ľsterreichring was named The Jochen Rindt Curve so maybe there is some truth in the story.

:wave:

#22 Bewlib

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 12:18

And a rare photo of Alessandro Pesenti-Rossi :)

I think it's an even rarer photo of Otto Stuppacher...

#23 alfredaustria

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 13:26

I think it's an even rarer photo of Otto Stuppacher...


No, no. That's definitely Pesenti-Rossi.
Otto Stuppacher had a dark-blue Tyrrell and a red helmet.
Moreover Stuppacher did not race the Tyrrell in Austria. His entry was removed. Stuppacher was NQU in Monza, Mosport and Watkins Glen.

Regards
Alfred :cat:


#24 Pedro 917

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 13:50

Wonderful track, also the scene of Pedro's last victory...
Scan of an old postcard :

Posted Image

#25 Michael Ferner

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 14:07

I always thought the A1-Ring was a decent track, given that its layout was much compromised by missing a very large area from the original ├ľ-Ring. It was certainly fun to drive in a computer game, much more so then the much lamented "old" Hockenheimring. It still amuses me that people rave about that one, and reject the recent improvements to it! :drunk:

#26 AndreasF1

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 14:39

Being less than 20 I loved the A1-Ring and I think it's kind of unfair to shit on tracks just because they used to be better. All of life used to be better. Of course the O-Ring was an epic of a track but I'll take the A1-Ring over anything else Tilke's made from scratch.


You are right, let's eat shit and be happy because the chef left the kitchen... :rolleyes:

#27 Gabrci

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 14:40

No, no. That's definitely Pesenti-Rossi.
Otto Stuppacher had a dark-blue Tyrrell and a red helmet.
Moreover Stuppacher did not race the Tyrrell in Austria. His entry was removed. Stuppacher was NQU in Monza, Mosport and Watkins Glen.

Regards
Alfred :cat:


Indeed, I corresponded with Mr. Pesenti-Rossi last year, and it's him on the photo.

#28 AndreasF1

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 14:51

Besides the Tilke mess up another unbelievable story happened to the ring. A few years back Red Bull had grand plans to restore the old magic and restore the Oesterreichring to it's former glory. Red Bull wanted to build a driver academy and automotive research center in close cooperation with Audi. The plan was moving forward and at one time the A1-Ring was Austria's biggest construcion site until it all stopped because a few left wing local politican's filed a grievance on behalf of some track neighbours complaining of noise and air pollution violations. The project was put on hold and after numous attempts by Red Bull to move the project forward it was decided that too much effort had already been wasted on convincing the local public of the economic benefits of such an endevor. Red Bull finally pulled the plug and purchased the Jaguar F1 team instead. Red Bull did restore the track back to A1-Ring specs.

Edited by AndreasF1, 11 February 2010 - 14:52.


#29 Bewlib

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 15:00

No, no. That's definitely Pesenti-Rossi.
Otto Stuppacher had a dark-blue Tyrrell and a red helmet.
Moreover Stuppacher did not race the Tyrrell in Austria. His entry was removed. Stuppacher was NQU in Monza, Mosport and Watkins Glen.

Regards
Alfred :cat:

:blush: You are right! I remember seeing Pesenti-Rossi racing his Tyrrell at the Nuerburgring two weeks earlier, and he was number 40, so I assumed he would be the same number at Osterreichring. My mistake!

#30 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 15:35

Wonderful track, also the scene of Pedro's last victory...
Scan of an old postcard :

Posted Image

What a great picture, Pedro, thanks! I can see where we camped, and I remember a couple of small, local storms, complete with lightning, in one of the steep little valleys in the hills behind!

#31 hansfohr

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 15:56

Abandoning great parts of the ├ľ Ring (Hella Licht, Flatschach straight, Dr. Tiroch Kurve) and the 'desexation' of the Bosch Kurve is a crime. :confused:

Posted Image

Edited by hansfohr, 11 February 2010 - 16:35.


#32 Steffe Ornerdal

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 16:16

Thank you all.

Another question, when were talking of Austria.

Helmut Marko's F3 team was called "Team Marko RSM". What stands letters RSM for?

#33 chdphd

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 16:29

I remember seeing this proposal a few years ago:

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#34 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 16:46

Thank you all.

Another question, when were talking of Austria.

Helmut Marko's F3 team was called "Team Marko RSM". What stands letters RSM for?

I think it was RennSport Management, for guiding young drivers.

#35 hansfohr

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 16:59

Thank you all.

Another question, when were talking of Austria. Helmut Marko's F3 team was called "Team Marko RSM". What stands letters RSM for?

RSM stands for 'Rennsportmanagement' (motorsports management).

EDIT: right suggestion Arjan! :wave:

Edited by hansfohr, 11 February 2010 - 17:01.


#36 uffen

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 17:17

The Osterreichring was indeed majestic. I never witnessed the A1-Ring but I can just imagine the contrast.
Thanks for posting the post card. I, too, can see where my friend and I camped and where, in 1976, I stood in the rain and mist watching Mario Andretti slither around in his Lotus.
Marvelous place.

#37 jeze

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 20:39

What has happened lately, is the track built up again or has environmentalists hijacked Red Bull's plans once more?

It was planned they would stage DTM in 2011, but things have gone eerily quiet lately :eek:

#38 P 4 Staff

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 22:00

The Osterreichring was indeed majestic. I never witnessed the A1-Ring but I can just imagine the contrast.
Thanks for posting the post card. I, too, can see where my friend and I camped and where, in 1976, I stood in the rain and mist watching Mario Andretti slither around in his Lotus.
Marvelous place.


I was there 1972 and have posted many pics on here. But...I don┬┤t remember where. :confused:

We tented just beside the hill after the start/finish straight. No problem waking up in the morning when the ground
started to vibrate as the cars roared up the hill. :)

I remember going about 25 meters from our tent to the fence and see Denis Hulme coming towards me...
I swear I had no chance twisting my head around to follow him...he had just dissapeard on the other side of the hill. :eek:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related



a fantastic place indeed...every day we went to a nearby village called Knittelfelt where we cooled ourself off in a big swimmingpool.

And one day Clay Reggazoni was there bathing with us. Just as a regular guy :) But at least we knew who he was. :)

I hope this comes out somewhat understandable...I have so many memories from this trip I guess I could write a book.

Best.






#39 Steffe Ornerdal

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 23:05

Many thanks for posting in ÔÇŁmyÔÇŁ thread.

Seems like many TNFÔÇÖs had a good time in Austria. Except me. I missed the racing.

I missed the spring opening race at Snetterton 1975 with about 4 hours.
I missed the spring opening race at Snetterton 1976 with about 6 hours.
As a young backpacker I missed the Monaco GP 1972 with about 3 days.
I missed the Monaco GP 1980 with about a week.
I missed the Solitude GP with about 15 years.
I missed the Grenzlandring GP with about 25 years.

If you see someone walking alone at a racetrack somewhere on a gloomy monday after a raceweekend, please come and say hello. ItÔÇÖs me.


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#40 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 00:47

Many thanks for posting in ÔÇŁmyÔÇŁ thread.



If you see someone walking alone at a racetrack somewhere on a gloomy monday after a raceweekend, please come and say hello. ItÔÇÖs me.

:lol:

#41 Slow M

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:39

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :wave: but wasn't Jochen Rindt involved in the design of the Oesterrichring ? Wonder what we would end up with today if someone like Schumacher was asked to design a track to challenge the gods .......................... Las Vegas probably

The track would be used for the championship deciding round. It would be designed with corners where the championship points leader can knock contenders out of the running.

Vegas is feeling the "economic downturn" more severely than most US cities; how 'bout Euro Disney?

#42 gio66

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 15:07


Who's the guy at 5'17"? :clap:

#43 hansfohr

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 23:17

Superswede, the Bear and Emmo in the Bosch Kurve. Those were the days of awsome monumental ultrafast circuits and brave men.......

Posted Image

#44 hansfohr

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 23:24

Zeltweg 1973: Little Art in the 312B3

Posted Image

#45 Wirra

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 06:40

Start '79
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Winner '79 - Jones (including Bin Laden sponsorship)
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Start '81 - I think that's Innes Ireland's head partly blocking the view.
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'81 - Bruno in the Alfa ahead of Nigel in the understeering Lotus
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#46 Stephen W

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:18

Posted Image
1982 Grand Prix - Rosberg in the Williams

:wave:

#47 hansfohr

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 10:05

Leo Kinnunen's Porsche 917K during practice for the 1000 km in 1970. An Alfa Romeo T33/3 in the background?

Posted Image

Edited by hansfohr, 18 February 2010 - 10:08.


#48 Tony Matthews

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:25

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Look what I've just found! Memories...

#49 nmansellfan

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 18:50

Start '79
Posted Image


Great picture, Wirra!

Interestingly Austrian TV's cameramen at the track went on strike, meaning only 7 minutes of the 1979 Austrian GP was broadcast...

Edited by nmansellfan, 19 February 2010 - 18:50.


#50 Barry Boor

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 19:03

Completely O.T. but seeing that he has been mentioned. indeed pictured, on this thread, I thought you might like to know that the SPARK model manufacturer has Pesenti-Rossi's Tyrrell on their list of models to be produced during 2010.

And, no, this is not a wind-up!

Edited by Barry Boor, 19 February 2010 - 19:04.