61 replies to this topic

[Duc-Man]

Thanks, Alan, for explaining the situation.
So, the "cockpit rule" was addressed to Chaparral ?

André Acker.

Not neccessarily. The Lola T160 (and evolutions) and the McLaren M8A & B had also the passanger seat partially enclosed by the windscreen.
I'd say they wanted the 'two-seaters' to be two-seaters again.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Thanks, Alan, for explaining the situation.
So, the "cockpit rule" was addressed to Chaparral ?

André Acker.

Jim Hall has famously been quoted for something like "My proudest achievement has been all the things I invented to be outlawed".

Jesper

[Andre Acker]

What happened to the photos ??????????

André Acker.

[AJB]

Not neccessarily. The Lola T160 (and evolutions) and the McLaren M8A & B had also the passanger seat partially enclosed by the windscreen.
I'd say they wanted the 'two-seaters' to be two-seaters again.

Exactly. The 1969 M8Bs had the asymetric windscreen whereas the 1970 M8Ds and privately entered M8Bs had symetrical windscreens.
The Ferrari 612P had an even more extreme cover over the passenger seat.
I have edited my earlier post as, with the benefit of hindsight, I think the article probably said Frans (Weis) rather than Fritz. It WAS a long time ago.
Alan

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Not a tech rule, but a sporting one. At least by the 1970 season shared drives seemed to have been deemed nill and void. Jerry Titus and Peter Revson shared the 7th placed McLaren at round 2 St. Jovite but both credited with 0 points. The same happened to Bob Bondurant and Jim Adams for their 8th place at round 5 at Mid-Ohio. That is if the point standings for the 1970 season in Pete Lyons Can-Am book are correct. Shared drives were rather rare I believe but any other examples and why were drives shared?

Jesper

[HeskethBoy]

As Andre asked - "Where are the photos?"

[jj2728]

Not a tech rule, but a sporting one. At least by the 1970 season shared drives seemed to have been deemed nill and void. Jerry Titus and Peter Revson shared the 7th placed McLaren at round 2 St. Jovite but both credited with 0 points. The same happened to Bob Bondurant and Jim Adams for their 8th place at round 5 at Mid-Ohio. That is if the point standings for the 1970 season in Pete Lyons Can-Am book are correct. Shared drives were rather rare I believe but any other examples and why were drives shared?

Jesper

That's interesting. The entry list shows Revson entered in the Carl Haas L&M Lola T220 AND the TG Racing Tire Ltd. McLaren M12 with Jerry Titus. At Mid-Ohio Bondurant was entered in the Smith-Oeser Racing Lola T160. At Mid-Ohio the heat may very well have been a factor as the race was usually run in mid to late August.

[SapphireatCTL]

CanAm rules from 1970 required a symetrical cockpit opening with similar protection for the (non-existant) passenger as for the driver. The 1970 rules also required bodywork behind the rear tyres, hence louvres fitted to the M8D where the M8B had open vents.
I believe the rules catered for 2 seater cars conforming to Group 7 regs, either open or closed. The Chaparral 2H was entered (and allegedly designed) as a coupe ("Show the man the doors in the side, Frans" was a magazine comment at the time) which just happened to have a lot of ventilation for the driver, as John Surtees not surprisingly didn't like the closed version. Eppie Wietzes finished in the points in 1966 in a Ford GT40 and Jo Siffert managed a 2nd place in a 917K at Watkins Glen in 1970.
Alan

AJB - Do you have access to the full rules and regs for 1970 please?

 

I acknowledge that this post is from quite a long time ago so if anyone can help us, it would be much appreciated 

 

Thanks

 

Classic Team Lotus

[Duc-Man]

AJB - Do you have access to the full rules and regs for 1970 please?

 

I acknowledge that this post is from quite a long time ago so if anyone can help us, it would be much appreciated 

 

Thanks

 

Classic Team Lotus

 

Well, it's not from 1970 when it comes to Group 7 but it is the whole appendix J from 1961 to 1990 the FIA offers.

http://argent.fia.co...nsf/whistj?open

[PeterElleray]

The 1972 SCCA regulations including the Can Am regulations (Sports Racing Category) are avaliable in their 'Vintage GCR rulebook' which can be downloaded as a pdf from their website ( also 1967 and earlier app.C but not 1970). The F5000 regs are in there too.

[AJB]

AJB - Do you have access to the full rules and regs for 1970 please?

 

I acknowledge that this post is from quite a long time ago so if anyone can help us, it would be much appreciated 

 

Thanks

 

Classic Team Lotus

Unfortunately I was going just by memory,but luckily the posters above seem to have answered your questions. From these, I note that the FIA Group 7 regs allowed for open or closed 2 seater racing cars (hence Ford GTs and Posche 917s etc being allowed to race in CanAm). But closed cars did not have to comply with the usual windscreen height and width rules applying to Prototypes and Sports Cars (and exploited by Jim Hall with his 2H) nor did they have to have lights or windscreen wipers.

Alan

[PeterElleray]

Perhaps this is as good a place as any to ask if anyone can point me at a late (1964 or 1965) copy of the Fia Appendix C (NOT J!) , to which rules the immediate predecessors of the post 1966 Group 7 can am machinary had to comply. App C was supereceded by an expanded App J in 1966 which then defined Groups 2 through 8 for Touring, Sports and Racing cars. The original McLaren M1, Chapparal 2/2C and Lola T70 etc were App C machines (so for that matter is a Lotus 19,23 or 30/40) ,aswell as complying with SCCA Sports Modfified regs as rqd.

 

This is part of some research i have been doing for a while, and whilst i was able to find the earlier AppC in the SCCA Vintage regs i mentioned above, i have failed to find the latter ones so far.

 

Peter