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#5051 Sof1

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:54

MSC apparently ran into traffic on his last Q2 lap. Can this guy get a break? Not that its going to make much difference in this qualy with his 10 grid place penalty.

Edited by Sof1, 28 August 2010 - 12:55.


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#5052 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:55

The traffic being Rosberg. Stupid Merc.

#5053 Sof1

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:56

byronf1:
It was not Schumacher's fault this time, he got caught in traffic on his final run in the dry. Team apologised to him on the radio


Go MGP! They always seem to **** it up for MSC.

#5054 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:57

The traffic being Rosberg. Stupid Merc.


His engineer excused to him for having him run into traffic. Sometimes it really seems like a conspiracy against Michael. Then again, it might be Michael´s own karma catching up with him...

#5055 Massa_f1

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:58

Go MGP! They always seem to **** it up for MSC.



Rosberg has wrecked MS lap twice so far this year its not impressive.

#5056 Sof1

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:59

At least MSC showed his clear dominance over Barbie this qualy.

:p

Edited by Sof1, 28 August 2010 - 13:00.


#5057 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:00

Why they run together? Michael time from his fast sectors is 1:47.5 . He lost in middle sector 0,2 from his last run. 46,9 to 47,1 .


#5058 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:01

Then again, it might be Michael´s own karma catching up with him...


Well, at some point it has to get better and work in favour of MSC. Because nothing has gone his way this year.

#5059 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:04

But, still he show good form for now. :)

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#5060 Urawa

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:11

Top 10 was possible, not the first time Mercedes let their drivers race so close to each other. Stupid.

Edited by Urawa, 28 August 2010 - 13:12.


#5061 baddog

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:26

It´s interesting that you seemed to know how I would have called him - wouldn´t it have been possible that I would have raveled in Schumi at least making a human gesture?

Maybe you wou... Nah you would have bitched him out, admit it.

Back on topic, from his big 'moment' in practice in Eau Rouge was evident that he really is not going to let Spa pass without making some kind of impression, and who can be surprised by that, everyone has an ego! Seems to still have it around here anyway, definitely a little more spark there, albeit that there isnt really anything in the car.

#5062 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:27

. He remarked on 300 races as DC said if he hadn't retired he would have more than 300 races. He says it isn't the number of races that counts it's what you do in them that matters.


Ah, envious of Rubens....

Of course, it´s Michael´s nature, he just cannot give due applause to someone else doing something good. Instead it has to be "....what you do in them (300 races) is what matters...."

He is just so endearing.


#5063 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:28

Maybe you wou... Nah you would have bitched him out, admit it.


See, baddog, even with his interview with DC Michael has shown his true colors again. Has nothing to do with me bitching him out. He serves one after the other on a silver tray....

#5064 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:29

But, still he show good form for now. :)


Absolutely, if the conditions tomorrow are changeable Michael and Fernando will show a cracking race!


#5065 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:30

Ah, envious of Rubens....

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
joke of the century
michael envious on...rubens

#5066 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:39

If Michael get in top 10 tomorrow will be success. Something like a win for him.

#5067 Kovalonso

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:39

Rubens jumped ships and made Williams [privat] overtake Mercedes [factory team] in the development race.
And Spa is a "Mercedes" track.
Shame on you Schumy & Merc. :o



#5068 dav115

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:47

Rubens jumped ships and made Williams [privat] overtake Mercedes [factory team] in the development race.
And Spa is a "Mercedes" track.
Shame on you Schumy & Merc. :o

Shame Rubens couldn't work his development magic at Brawn last year.

#5069 JackTorrance

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:49

Shame Rubens couldn't work his development magic at Brawn last year.


Who won both titles again in 2009?

#5070 marchi-91

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:49

Ah, envious of Rubens....

Of course, it´s Michael´s nature, he just cannot give due applause to someone else doing something good. Instead it has to be "....what you do in them (300 races) is what matters...."

He is just so endearing.


You offer anybody Michaels career or Rubens and see who's gets snapped up a hell of alot faster. I'd rather race 100 races and be a contender, then race 300 and be the also ran who never really amounted to anything.

#5071 dav115

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:54

Who won both titles again in 2009?

Rubens' team mate, by winning six out of the first seven races before Brawn got out-developed by Red Bull.

#5072 arknor

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 13:56

Who won both titles again in 2009?

who were extremly lucky in 2009? you speak as if brawn kept up with the development pace when every race almost every team were catching them

#5073 GoRacing

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 14:37

You offer anybody Michaels career or Rubens and see who's gets snapped up a hell of alot faster. I'd rather race 100 races and be a contender, then race 300 and be the also ran who never really amounted to anything.


You're right, this Rubens love is getting so irritating by the day. That guy knows nothing but to cry and whine all the time. He got beaten by Jenson to the WDC last year, there are no points or championships awarded for crying or whining, he will for ever be an also ran.

Edited by GoRacing, 28 August 2010 - 14:38.


#5074 JackTorrance

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 14:43

who were extremly lucky in 2009? you speak as if brawn kept up with the development pace when every race almost every team were catching them


Extremely lucky? They won 6 of the first 7 races with a car that didnt even have an engine 7 weeks before the start of the season!!! Please get some perspective!!
Rubens might not be a 7 times world champ but is being hailed for his technical know how by all his former team bosses like Ross Brawn.

#5075 MCh000

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 15:40

Did Michael receive a new chassis?

#5076 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 15:50

Did Michael receive a new chassis?

I think so(that was the plan), maybe his other chassis was broken again.

#5077 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 16:30

Isn´t it funny how Michael cannot even make the human gesture of visiting Rubens´record party - after all, Rubens was his loyal foot soldier for six years.
Ah, right, Michael wants to celebrate only himself, not others.


And why shouldn't he?

Schumacher - 91 wins, 7 WDC's, smashed every record in the book that is worth smashing.


I'd be pretty smug with a record like that too.

On the other hand, Barrichello, 300 GP's, no WDC's, no records (bar the 300 GP one). All he has is a chip on his shoulder, psychological torment from his Ferrari years and a nice smile to show for it all.



(you know I'm only having a laugh with you, Adiya :up: :D )

#5078 GoRacing

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 16:35

Isn´t it funny how Michael cannot even make the human gesture of visiting Rubens´record party - after all, Rubens was his loyal foot soldier for six years.
Ah, right, Michael wants to celebrate only himself, not others.


What nonsense is this, are MS and Rubens in love or something according to you??? Maybe you should go give Rubens a hug and a kiss.

#5079 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 16:41

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
joke of the century
michael envious on...rubens



Rubens 7th
Michael 11th

Interesting to see the comparison where Barrichello took Williams in development this year and where Michael took Mercedes in development this year.
Come to think of it, Michael won all his WDCs with Ferrari while Rubens was his teammate....after Rubens left Ferrari, Michael did not cut it anymore.

Jenson became WDC last year, again with Rubens doing the development work.

So while it is clear that Rubens is not a driver of WDC calibre, he is a pretty good developer and team worker. It´s great to see Williams on the up after 5 years in the doldrums, and it is telling to see where Mercedes is going within the same span of time with Michael doing the development at Merc....

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#5080 jimm

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 16:47

You offer anybody Michaels career or Rubens and see who's gets snapped up a hell of alot faster. I'd rather race 100 races and be a contender, then race 300 and be the also ran who never really amounted to anything.



Technically, he was a contender last year. Ruben's problem is that he lacks the killer instinct. I think talent wise, he is right there. Beyond a certain point it becomes more about mental make up than raw talent. See how Webber reacted to team orders this year. That is how I would expect someone who had the potential to be WDC to act. Can you imagine Prost, Senna, Mansell, Mika, MS (1999 does not count as he was out of contention when he moved over for Irvine), Alonso, Lewis etc to move over when it is obvious they had the best car and they would be contenders for the WDC?

Never would happen. There are probably many little similar concessions that he has made throughout his career that resulted in his current position.

That said, it would not have hurt MS to show some class to another competitor...but then he realy has never done so without it benefiting him in the end. Not that this is abnormal for F1 drivers.

#5081 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 16:49

OMG too funny. Seriously???? Rubens bring Williams up the grid in 6 months! LOL..

Post Newey Era, williams has been and continue to be a mid-pack team. If they get their engineering team back into shape, the definitely have the know-how to get back to the front and winning again.. This years success has more to do with the building upon the 09 car and also the fact that the Merc and Renault haven't lived up to expections so it's making Williams look better.



#5082 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 16:50

Rubens 7th
Michael 11th

Interesting to see the comparison where Barrichello took Williams in development this year and where Michael took Mercedes in development this year.

That's an appallingly poor argument, and you know it.

#5083 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 16:53

That's an appallingly poor argument, and you know it.


I don´t think so. I think there is more behind it than you would like to think of. Rubens impresses me a lot this year, Michael disappoints a lot this year, both on track and off track.


#5084 MCh000

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 16:57

That's an appallingly poor argument, and you know it.


It's not even an argument, it's pure 100% trolling.

#5085 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 17:03

Technically, he was a contender last year. Ruben's problem is that he lacks the killer instinct. I think talent wise, he is right there. Beyond a certain point it becomes more about mental make up than raw talent. See how Webber reacted to team orders this year. That is how I would expect someone who had the potential to be WDC to act. Can you imagine Prost, Senna, Mansell, Mika, MS (1999 does not count as he was out of contention when he moved over for Irvine), Alonso, Lewis etc to move over when it is obvious they had the best car and they would be contenders for the WDC?

Never would happen. There are probably many little similar concessions that he has made throughout his career that resulted in his current position.

That said, it would not have hurt MS to show some class to another competitor...but then he realy has never done so without it benefiting him in the end. Not that this is abnormal for F1 drivers.


That´s exactly what I wanted to say with the words "Rubens is not a WDC calibre", but he does have excellent other qualities, which is overlooked by many, including Buttoneer.
As you say, the WDC calibre is very clearly a matter of mental and psychological make-up, we know that from sports psychology and from other sports as well.

Yet Rubens overall qualities are certainly there.
Why do you think Rubens is still finding cockpits year after year? The people in the know are aware of these qualities, that´s why Rubens is still on the grid.



Funny coincidence, Rubens qualified 7th at his 300th Grand Prix, exactly where Michael qualified at his first GP - 7th here in Spa in 1991.
Very clearly their fates are intermingled, and Michael was just setting up the stage with his move on Rubens in Hungary. In which Rubens showed the killer instinct you described, finally.

And exactly here, at his 300th GP, at Michael´s "home GP" (as Michael himself calls Spa, as it is the closest to Kerpen), it becomes evident that the way Rubens is leading Williams is showing results that the way Michael is leading Mercedes is not able to show. At the track at which Michael always used to excel - he used to be called the "King of Spa" before Kimi´s advent.

Edited by aditya-now, 28 August 2010 - 17:19.


#5086 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 17:04

I don´t think so. I think there is more behind it than you would like to think of.

Only if one were to assume the drivers are the technical brains behind the engineering teams, and that developments the drivers came up with were added to this years car rather than being reserved for next.

#5087 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 17:08

Only if one were to assume the drivers are the technical brains behind the engineering teams, and that developments the drivers came up with were added to this years car rather than being reserved for next.


You know better than that.

Was it not always said, that it is one of Michael´s strongest points to "gel a team", to spur the team spirit, to pull them all together?
Of course the driver is not the technical brain nor the engineering team, but he is in a pivotal position to pull all the strings together.

And at the moment Rubens appears to be doing just that better than Michael does.


#5088 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 17:13

legardj : " Rosberg and Schumacher say podium finish for either this season will be a struggle. Mercedes doesn't have the pace currently"
What surprise Reno, Williams are better than former Honda team. Even FI is getting better. For MGP this year is over. I said that they will have problems in Spa and now they are 7th-8th strongest team by result. I said that even Nico will have problem to get in top 10. Then some people laugh at me. But who is laughing now?And somebody is coming here and is using car problems to put blame on the drivers? But, nobody blame before Reno and Williams drivers? MGP will need a lot of experience and new engineers to turn the situation. The truth is Reno and Williams have better engineers than MGP and they are doing better job now. MGP don't have real F-duct , EBD is melting. Yes, Michael is responsible for that, also for designing car with design faults.

Edited by ivand911, 28 August 2010 - 17:38.


#5089 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 17:54

legardj : " Rosberg and Schumacher say podium finish for either this season will be a struggle. Mercedes doesn't have the pace currently"
What surprise Reno, Williams are better than former Honda team. Even FI is getting better. For MGP this year is over. I said that they will have problems in Spa and now they are 7th-8th strongest team by result. I said that even Nico will have problem to get in top 10. Then some people laugh at me. But who is laughing now?And somebody is coming here and is using car problems to put blame on the drivers? But, nobody blame before Reno and Williams drivers? MGP will need a lot of experience and new engineers to turn the situation. The truth is Reno and Williams have better engineers than MGP and they are doing better job now. MGP don't have real F-duct , EBD is melting. Yes, Michael is responsible for that, also for designing car with design faults.


Reno and Williams.. better engineers? Are you mad?

Simply put. Honda bailed. Brawn managed to get an excellent car out and then ran out of money mid-season so little development and direction was in place until Merc came on board fully. So the 2010 is basically like the early season 2009 modified to 2010 regs (and poorly at that). This is a team that for 2 years was always on the brink with little direction for future seasons.

Renault are experiencing the same thing so don`t expect them to get any better any time soon.

As for Williams. Tonnes of promise but without a works team in place, they`ll probably stay as such unless they pull a Brawn one season. But they could every year be considered a dark horse that could come to light any year.

As for Merc. Good engineers. Solid team now. Direction there now and very little concern for long term prospects of the team folding so they can now concentrate on a fully developed 2011 car and ability to start 2012 plans early! They pretty much abandoned the 2010 dog a long time ago, any changes are purely for reliability and R*D knowledge for the 2011 car.

Everyone just needs to get over the fact that the 2010 car is a dog.

IT`S very clear why it is, it is very clear that it isn`t something can be fixed by bolt on`s so the 2010 season is a write off, due to the issues Brawn faced in 2009.



#5090 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:07

Everyone just needs to get over the fact that the 2010 car is a dog.

IT`S very clear why it is, it is very clear that it isn`t something can be fixed by bolt on`s so the 2010 season is a write off, due to the issues Brawn faced in 2009.


The car is a dog?

Bahrain: Nico 5th, Michael 6th
Australia: Nico 5th, Michael 10th
Malaysia: Nico 3rd, Michael DNF
China: Nico 3rd, Michael 10th

and so on....

Nice dog of a car to have that can bring you to a podium finish, at least if your name is not Michael Schumacher.
It started to go on the wrong tangent the moment they wanted to "improve the car to suit Michael´s driving style" after China.

But that´s not because the car is inherently a dog but because they had to start messing around because of Michael.
Pity that Nico´s season was affected along the way....


#5091 Kovalonso

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:09

You know better than that.

Was it not always said, that it is one of Michael´s strongest points to "gel a team", to spur the team spirit, to pull them all together?
Of course the driver is not the technical brain nor the engineering team, but he is in a pivotal position to pull all the strings together.

And at the moment Rubens appears to be doing just that better than Michael does.


IMO there is no comparison among Rubens and Michael performance this year as a leading driver.

Michael is racing with the best engine and running WDC/WCC team.
Rubens has a new Cosworth venture to push him, running Friday's on a detuned one due to the excess of power loss.
Rubens also changed the way Williams engineers were reading the windtunnel data.

Michael wasn't helping Ferrari to develop their car and that's why Montezemolo allowed him to leave the team before the contract expiration.
Rubens has raced for several teams, making them grow like Jordan, Stewart, Ferrari, Brawn and now Williams. When he left, the whole team performance dropped in a noticeable way.

Michael had a remarkable performance in a given environment, he moved to another one and is not reproducing the results, which might lead to some conclusions. One of them is he wasn't that good actually.
Of course, age gets in the way, but so does to Rubens.

Fact is, even though Michael is faster than Rubens, MS is having a worse performance with better resources.

Edited by Buttoneer, 29 August 2010 - 23:13.


#5092 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:14

Reno and Williams.. better engineers? Are you mad?

Simply put. Honda bailed. Brawn managed to get an excellent car out and then ran out of money mid-season so little development and direction was in place until Merc came on board fully. So the 2010 is basically like the early season 2009 modified to 2010 regs (and poorly at that). This is a team that for 2 years was always on the brink with little direction for future seasons.

Renault are experiencing the same thing so don`t expect them to get any better any time soon.

As for Williams. Tonnes of promise but without a works team in place, they`ll probably stay as such unless they pull a Brawn one season. But they could every year be considered a dark horse that could come to light any year.

As for Merc. Good engineers. Solid team now. Direction there now and very little concern for long term prospects of the team folding so they can now concentrate on a fully developed 2011 car and ability to start 2012 plans early! They pretty much abandoned the 2010 dog a long time ago, any changes are purely for reliability and R*D knowledge for the 2011 car.

Everyone just needs to get over the fact that the 2010 car is a dog.

IT`S very clear why it is, it is very clear that it isn`t something can be fixed by bolt on`s so the 2010 season is a write off, due to the issues Brawn faced in 2009.


Fans and the media seem to have forgotten that Brawn's championship year was an anomaly for the 'Brackley Team'. They have been on a downward curve since 2006, with worse cars each year until the rewritten rules allowed them to steal a march. Mercedes will need to invest in some new personnel in their aero and, crucially I think, the Tyre-modelling and simulating department.. two years in a row they have made a car that uses it's tyres differently to everyone else... this has had positive effects for drivers like Button, but also big negatives for the same drivers.

This Mercedes/Brawn car is better than the last two Honda dogs, but it's not at the same level the 2004/05/06 BAR/Honda's were, and is more redolent of the earlier BAR cars wheeled out of Brackley...

The media especially are still of the mindset that Mercedes/Brawn are a BIG team and would be one to definitely compete at the front... It was perhaps expected they'd be better than this given the progress the aero dpt. had made in working the new regulations, but with a year of data and lessons learned, the other real BIG teams had time to catch up and refine with their own engineers and aerodynamicists, who on past experiences were better...

Edited by DanardiF1, 28 August 2010 - 18:16.


#5093 AlainProstX

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:18

I wonder how on earth does Paco come to the conclusion that Mercedes GP has better engineers (=better team) than Williams or Renault F1.

Lets take a look at the past, beginning with 2002 (Renaults re-entry into F1):

Renault Williams Mercedes/Brawn/Honda/BAR
2002: 23 92 7
2003: 88 144 26
2004: 105 88 119
2005: 191 66 34
2006: 206 11 86
2007: 51 33 6
2008: 80 26 14
2009: 26 34,5 172

Except 2009, 2006 and 2004, the Merc/Brawn/Honda/BAR was always beaten by Renault AND Williams.

2009 they had a huge advantage and the team worked good. K, but now the advantage is gone. Currently, Renault is in a much better shape then Mercedes. Just imagine Renault having a good driver alongside Kubica like Heidfeld or Sutil and not Petrov. They would be already ahead of Mercedes GP in the constructor standings.



Oh yeah, I forgot, Brawn won the WDC and WCC last year, this means that the Brackley F1 team is MUCH better then Renault and Williams. This also means that the team must be better then Mclaren because Mclaren won no championship last season :)

Edited by AlainProstX, 28 August 2010 - 18:21.


#5094 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:18

The car is a dog?

Bahrain: Nico 5th, Michael 6th
Australia: Nico 5th, Michael 10th
Malaysia: Nico 3rd, Michael DNF
China: Nico 3rd, Michael 10th

and so on....

Nice dog of a car to have that can bring you to a podium finish, at least if your name is not Michael Schumacher.
It started to go on the wrong tangent the moment they wanted to "improve the car to suit Michael´s driving style" after China.

But that´s not because the car is inherently a dog but because they had to start messing around because of Michael.
Pity that Nico´s season was affected along the way....


It`s as if you think the season stands still... Most teams weren`t up to snuff the 1st 3-4 races and only introduced developments when they got back to Europe. At that point, Merc started to fall behind when the others finally got to Europe. Sure Nico was more comfortable racing around the inherient design flaws early on but as other teams got quicker, Merc couldn`t make any appreciable changes to keep pace as there was not left in the W01.

Michael at least recognized from the beginning that there was something very very wrong having driven championship-race winning cars where as Nico thought it would evolve into a race winner but when the foundation is flawed, sure you patch it a bit but then it runs out and collapses eventually. That`s what we are witnessing now. Hopefully, they get a solid base to work with in 2011 and get themselves into contenders for a championship in 2012.



#5095 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:29

I wonder how on earth does Paco come to the conclusion that Mercedes GP has better engineers (=better team) than Williams or Renault F1.

Lets take a look at the past, beginning with 2002 (Renaults re-entry into F1):

Renault Williams Mercedes/Brawn/Honda/BAR
2002: 23 92 7
2003: 88 144 26
2004: 105 88 119
2005: 191 66 34
2006: 206 11 86
2007: 51 33 6
2008: 80 26 14
2009: 26 34,5 172

Except 2009, 2006 and 2004, the Merc/Brawn/Honda/BAR was always beaten by Renault AND Williams.

2009 they had a huge advantage and the team worked good. K, but now the advantage is gone. Currently, Renault is in a much better shape then Mercedes. Just imagine Renault having a good driver alongside Kubica like Heidfeld or Sutil and not Petrov. They would be already ahead of Mercedes GP in the constructor standings.



Oh yeah, I forgot, Brawn won the WDC and WCC last year, this means that the Brackley F1 team is MUCH better then Renault and Williams. This also means that the team must be better then Mclaren because Mclaren won no championship last season :)


I`ll state what i just said, it`s as if you think F1 is static. Renault this year is not the same management, engineering wise etc. during the Fernando years etc. The current iteration isn`t as strong financially or R*D wise that the team was years gone by.

As for BAR-Honda-Brawn-Merc.. you have to look at what is in hand today.. not yesterday. BAR was a joke under Willis etc. Honda never really cracked the nut properly.. Brawn was hanging on a very loose string and managed to make excellent use of what they had but it`s not as if BRAWN 2009 = MERC 2010. That`s a far stretch to make. Merc came in, cleaned the house a bit and with some much needed funds, broght in a lot of new people. Time will tell in the next couple of years whether my belief is correct that Merc is stronger as team then Brawn was. That isnt to say Brawn did anything wrong, I just Ross-Mercedes is a better team the Brawn was due to access to capital to invest in its staff and increase its experience and knowledge.


#5096 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:33

I Guess Many People Here Really Do Go By The Saying ...

YOU`RE ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST RACE..

I guess if Michael comes out if it rains and RAINMASTERS SPA 2010.. all will be forgiven and everyone will sing his praises again and Merc will be villified for signing Michael.. Maybe he`ll even lap his teammate while doing it and the Nico fans will go into hiding...

(sarcasim) :stoned:


#5097 AlainProstX

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:35

I`ll state what i just said, it`s as if you think F1 is static. Renault this year is not the same management, engineering wise etc. during the Fernando years etc. The current iteration isn`t as strong financially or R*D wise that the team was years gone by.

As for BAR-Honda-Brawn-Merc.. you have to look at what is in hand today.. not yesterday. BAR was a joke under Willis etc. Honda never really cracked the nut properly.. Brawn was hanging on a very loose string and managed to make excellent use of what they had but it`s not as if BRAWN 2009 = MERC 2010. That`s a far stretch to make. Merc came in, cleaned the house a bit and with some much needed funds, broght in a lot of new people. Time will tell in the next couple of years whether my belief is correct that Merc is stronger as team then Brawn was. That isnt to say Brawn did anything wrong, I just Ross-Mercedes is a better team the Brawn was due to access to capital to invest in its staff and increase its experience and knowledge.



Your "stronger" team is somehow weaker then Renault since several weeks and ruins the races of their drivers with bad calls/strategies/managements.

Yes, I would go so far to say this team is just like the Brackley team before the 2009 year.



#5098 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:39

Seems the haters have come out in force today with inane comments. Must be because they lost their only ammunition in the quali.

#5099 arknor

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:46

Merc came in, cleaned the house a bit and with some much needed funds, broght in a lot of new people.

erm they did? then why is thr mercedes team running on a skeleton staff still?

you do realise they are running with half the man power of most teams right :rolleyes:

some people in this forum are either ignorant or post what they know is BS assuming noone will realise

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#5100 cindy4ever33

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:47

I`ll state what i just said, it`s as if you think F1 is static. Renault this year is not the same management, engineering wise etc. during the Fernando years etc. The current iteration isn`t as strong financially or R*D wise that the team was years gone by.

As for BAR-Honda-Brawn-Merc.. you have to look at what is in hand today.. not yesterday. BAR was a joke under Willis etc. Honda never really cracked the nut properly.. Brawn was hanging on a very loose string and managed to make excellent use of what they had but it`s not as if BRAWN 2009 = MERC 2010. That`s a far stretch to make. Merc came in, cleaned the house a bit and with some much needed funds, broght in a lot of new people. Time will tell in the next couple of years whether my belief is correct that Merc is stronger as team then Brawn was. That isnt to say Brawn did anything wrong, I just Ross-Mercedes is a better team the Brawn was due to access to capital to invest in its staff and increase its experience and knowledge.


Time will tell you are right. Maybe next year or maybe year after Michael. I am not so sure what next year's car is gonna be but I am adamant that Merc will one of the strongest teams on the grid as long as they have Ross on board with input or something from experienced drivers like MSC.