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#5101 cindy4ever33

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:47

I`ll state what i just said, it`s as if you think F1 is static. Renault this year is not the same management, engineering wise etc. during the Fernando years etc. The current iteration isn`t as strong financially or R*D wise that the team was years gone by.

As for BAR-Honda-Brawn-Merc.. you have to look at what is in hand today.. not yesterday. BAR was a joke under Willis etc. Honda never really cracked the nut properly.. Brawn was hanging on a very loose string and managed to make excellent use of what they had but it`s not as if BRAWN 2009 = MERC 2010. That`s a far stretch to make. Merc came in, cleaned the house a bit and with some much needed funds, broght in a lot of new people. Time will tell in the next couple of years whether my belief is correct that Merc is stronger as team then Brawn was. That isnt to say Brawn did anything wrong, I just Ross-Mercedes is a better team the Brawn was due to access to capital to invest in its staff and increase its experience and knowledge.


Time will tell you are right. Maybe next year or maybe year after Michael. I am not so sure what next year's car is gonna be but I am adamant that Merc will one of the strongest teams on the grid as long as they have Ross on board with input or something from experienced drivers like MSC.

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#5102 cindy4ever33

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:49

erm they did? then why is thr mercedes team running on a skeleton staff still?

you do realise they are running with half the man power of most teams right :rolleyes:

some people in this forum are either ignorant or post what they know is BS assuming noone will realise


Isn't that cutting people one of the budget plan by FIA?

Next year all teams have to lay off some members to meet the maximum of 350 around.

#5103 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:51

Fans and the media seem to have forgotten that Brawn's championship year was an anomaly for the 'Brackley Team'. They have been on a downward curve since 2006, with worse cars each year until the rewritten rules allowed them to steal a march. Mercedes will need to invest in some new personnel in their aero and, crucially I think, the Tyre-modelling and simulating department.. two years in a row they have made a car that uses it's tyres differently to everyone else... this has had positive effects for drivers like Button, but also big negatives for the same drivers.

This Mercedes/Brawn car is better than the last two Honda dogs, but it's not at the same level the 2004/05/06 BAR/Honda's were, and is more redolent of the earlier BAR cars wheeled out of Brackley...

The media especially are still of the mindset that Mercedes/Brawn are a BIG team and would be one to definitely compete at the front... It was perhaps expected they'd be better than this given the progress the aero dpt. had made in working the new regulations, but with a year of data and lessons learned, the other real BIG teams had time to catch up and refine with their own engineers and aerodynamicists, who on past experiences were better...


Exactly. Unless something truly disasterious happens at Merc. They can really only go up from here next year.

Let`s not forget, BWM tried and failed at realizing the goals as a works team. Give Merc and Michael some time and I have a hunch that they`ll be a stronger team in 2012 then anything BMW accomplished during their stints as a engine supplier and full works team.

Considering how long and many years it took the genius of Newey to build RedBull this stage and what looks to be a championshipo.. think a driver like Michael would work a miracle at making the W01 a race winner is absolute crazy talk. I personally wouldn`t be suprised if Merc doesn`t win the championship until after Michael is gone but I do think they`ll win races faster by having him there. I very very much doubt Nico had it in him at the beginning of 2010 to lead team into a championship squad. How, having seen how Michael operates etc. he`s probably much more able to be a numbero 1 if and when Merc is ready to run at the front. However, I still think Michael will humble Nico before Michael is done and retired from his Merc uniform as a driver.



#5104 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 18:58

erm they did? then why is thr mercedes team running on a skeleton staff still?

you do realise they are running with half the man power of most teams right :rolleyes:

some people in this forum are either ignorant or post what they know is BS assuming noone will realise


Skeleton staff. Maybe at season start. Doesn`t mean that is still the case. Plus, they said from the word go they needed to evaluate everyone on staff as the season progressed and put into place necessary changes. I`m sure they have a shopping least of people and positions they want to fill and a list of people that will be getting some much needed pink slips. All the more reason to believe this year was simply a - Lets get through it year and make sure we ready for a solid 2011 compaign.

As for the 350.. that`s just the FIA being stupid again... It`s sooo easy for Merc to create a new company, fire staff and have them hired by the new company and run them as consultants. Same staff count.. just different setup.

Edited by Paco, 28 August 2010 - 19:21.


#5105 arknor

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 19:01

Isn't that cutting people one of the budget plan by FIA?

Next year all teams have to lay off some members to meet the maximum of 350 around.

yea which was done long before mercedes brought anything to the team...

its one of the big reasons the car sucks and the upgrades arent coming compared to everyone else.

lets just blame it on schumacher though brawn had to fire them to pay schumacher the wage he wanted or something that makes the hatred filled people happy

#5106 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 19:13

Skeleton staff. Maybe at season start. Doesn`t mean that is still the case. Plus, they said from the word go they needed to evaluate everyone on staff as the season progressed and put into place necessary changes. I`m sure they have a shopping least of positions and positions they want to fill and a list of people that will be getting some much needed pink slips. All the more reason to believe this year was simply a - Lets get through it year and make sure we ready for a solid 2011 compaign.

As for the 350.. that`s just the FIA being stupid again... It`s sooo easy for a create a new company, fire staff and have them hired by the new company and run them as consultants. Same staff count.. just different setup.

We all want MGP and Michael to do well. I didn't hear that MGP hire some new good specialists. Do you have any source or you just think this right thing to do? I said that Reno and Williams have better engineers because they improve constantly, their updates work , when MGP is going back. Yes it is true that Williams and Reno have better base(car) to work on. MGP is looking now like amateur team. I am not happy with this. For me drivers are victims only. I don't think Williams have more staff than MGP , this is not why they are better. As I said their updates work because base is better. MGP car don't have much potential for improvement. Lower air intake is problem for the car more than help. This is because they can't make normal F-duct this way.

Edited by ivand911, 28 August 2010 - 19:14.


#5107 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 19:30

We all want MGP and Michael to do well. I didn't hear that MGP hire some new good specialists. Do you have any source or you just think this right thing to do? I said that Reno and Williams have better engineers because they improve constantly, their updates work , when MGP is going back. Yes it is true that Williams and Reno have better base(car) to work on. MGP is looking now like amateur team. I am not happy with this. For me drivers are victims only. I don't think Williams have more staff than MGP , this is not why they are better. As I said their updates work because base is better. MGP car don't have much potential for improvement. Lower air intake is problem for the car more than help. This is because they can't make normal F-duct this way.


What I keep thinking is that Ross is a pretty canny individual and Merc have been in F1 long enough to know how to do things. I have feeling, they are simply:

Setting the bar very low now so as not to set the expectations too high and fall flat on their face.

If they improve.. they'll be vindicating for putting so much resource into the W02 and abandoning a car without little potential.
If they stay status quo.. they're building up the team and no one will really think much of it. Michael annouces his retirement mid-season and takes up a position on the wall.
If they fall back.. well, there really wont be much farther to fall by season end so.. the odds of that happening are very very low.

If they were to make incremental improvements and finish 4.. or 5th.. Then they have to basically be a top 3 team next season or would be considered a failure to a team that is stalled. Not exactly where you want to be in year 2 of your program.



#5108 Paco

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 19:41

Source for team having hired people... no inside info.

However, if the 02 is well into development .. highly doubt it would have been by the same people that weren't able to finish the 2009 compaign and fundamentally designed a bad 2010 car .. even if it's the 2009 in disguise. Plus, if the team was hemorraging technically .. i'm sure Merc would have recruited top software and CFD, mechanical and aero guys before they set foot designing the 2011 challenger.

If it were me running the team, I would have had severe reservations about moving forward with 2011 unless improvements were made staffing wise and a serious amount of knowledge was brought in to improve my cause. The drivers aren't the cause for a failed 2010 so you have to look at everyone else as probable cause and make it right before going forward in 2011. Considering how quickly those decisions need to be made, I find it almost impossible that Mercedes isn't a larger squad now then at the start of the season.

Considering the new potential entrant for 2011 Epsilon is already at mockup and wind tunnel testing.. it just goes to show that August would be too late for them to be thinking of NOW hiring people. That would had to have happened months back or else 2011 would be compromised.

But hey, that's logical thinking and soo many here seem to want to ignore that F1 isn't about the last race so maybe after todays qualifying.. merc decided to shrink it's team further .. why bother paying people if results are coming along fast enough :-) :-) :-)

Edited by Paco, 28 August 2010 - 19:46.


#5109 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 19:54

Hope tomorrow for changeable conditions. Not because car will be better, but because other drivers can make more mistakes. Petorv will be strong from 24th, because of the car. Koba and Buemi are first problems for Michael. Where Koba maybe have faster car. But the race would be interesting.

#5110 arknor

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 20:25

Source for team having hired people... no inside info.

However, if the 02 is well into development .. highly doubt it would have been by the same people that weren't able to finish the 2009 compaign and fundamentally designed a bad 2010 car .. even if it's the 2009 in disguise. Plus, if the team was hemorraging technically .. i'm sure Merc would have recruited top software and CFD, mechanical and aero guys before they set foot designing the 2011 challenger.

If it were me running the team, I would have had severe reservations about moving forward with 2011 unless improvements were made staffing wise and a serious amount of knowledge was brought in to improve my cause. The drivers aren't the cause for a failed 2010 so you have to look at everyone else as probable cause and make it right before going forward in 2011. Considering how quickly those decisions need to be made, I find it almost impossible that Mercedes isn't a larger squad now then at the start of the season.

Considering the new potential entrant for 2011 Epsilon is already at mockup and wind tunnel testing.. it just goes to show that August would be too late for them to be thinking of NOW hiring people. That would had to have happened months back or else 2011 would be compromised.

But hey, that's logical thinking and soo many here seem to want to ignore that F1 isn't about the last race so maybe after todays qualifying.. merc decided to shrink it's team further .. why bother paying people if results are coming along fast enough :-) :-) :-)

so your source is you guessing and assuming?

i cant believe brawn would sack hundreds of people to meet the suposed staff limit which might never happens anyway, you see ferrari , redbull , mclaren etc firing half of their staff? , impose pay freezes etc just to hire all these new workers you dreamed up.

but hey if that is the case no wonder the upgrades arent working morale will be rock bottom

#5111 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 23:13

so your source is you guessing and assuming?

i cant believe brawn would sack hundreds of people to meet the suposed staff limit which might never happens anyway, you see ferrari , redbull , mclaren etc firing half of their staff? , impose pay freezes etc just to hire all these new workers you dreamed up.

but hey if that is the case no wonder the upgrades arent working morale will be rock bottom


Well we know they downsized to 450 early last year, to be able to afford to still go racing. That would still make them amongst the 'smaller' teams on the grid. Isn't Sauber working with a similar amount? And I can't imagine Force India working on much more...

Mercedes said all along that they were going to run this team to a certain budget, and make their racing pay well. They're probably not using much Merc money at all this year, what with their TV money for the WCC and the Petronas deal...

But if they are going to keep that level of personnel whilst the megateams like McLaren and Ferrari have double, they're going to have to realise that they'll need to up the quality of the staff, and that'll cost money.

#5112 aditya-now

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 23:29

IMO there is no comparison among Rubens and Michael performance this year as a leading driver.

Michael is racing with the best engine and running WDC/WCC team.
Rubens has a new Cosworth venture to push him, running Friday's on a detuned one due to the excess of power loss.
Rubens also changed the way Williams engineers were reading the windtunnel data.

Michael wasn't helping Ferrari to develop their car and that's why Montezemolo allowed him to leave the team before the contract expiration.
Rubens has raced for several teams, making them grow like Jordan, Stewart, Ferrari, Brawn and now Williams. When he left, the whole team performance dropped in a noticeable way.

Michael had a remarkable performance in a given environment, he moved to another one and is not reproducing the results, which might lead to some conclusions. One of them is he wasn't that good actually.
Of course, age gets in the way, but so does to Rubens.

Fact is, even though Michael is faster than Rubens, MS is having a worse performance with better results.


Thanks for the kind words, Kovalanso.

What you say about Rubens is quite telling, looking at his record at Jordan, Stewart, Ferrari, Brawn and now Williams.

This is probably one of the most overlooked facts, and, Rubens being Rubens, a bit of a cry-baby, he often did not help his own case. Yet Michael was lucky to have had him as his lieutenant for six years, longer than any other team mate. And in these six years Michael won 5 WDCs.

#5113 Massa

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 00:52

Rubens 7th
Michael 11th

Interesting to see the comparison where Barrichello took Williams in development this year and where Michael took Mercedes in development this year.
Come to think of it, Michael won all his WDCs with Ferrari while Rubens was his teammate....after Rubens left Ferrari, Michael did not cut it anymore.

Jenson became WDC last year, again with Rubens doing the development work.

So while it is clear that Rubens is not a driver of WDC calibre, he is a pretty good developer and team worker. It´s great to see Williams on the up after 5 years in the doldrums, and it is telling to see where Mercedes is going within the same span of time with Michael doing the development at Merc....




Stop bullshit please.. :|


Schumacher come at Ferrari in 1996, Ferrari was one second off the pace at least. 1997, 1998 second. 1999 injury. Before sign Barrichello at Ferrari, the car was already the fastest.

Rubens, this genius driver, had the best car in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2009. Each time, he was beaten by his teammate.

#5114 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 00:52

Thanks for the kind words, Kovalanso.

What you say about Rubens is quite telling, looking at his record at Jordan, Stewart, Ferrari, Brawn and now Williams.

This is probably one of the most overlooked facts, and, Rubens being Rubens, a bit of a cry-baby, he often did not help his own case. Yet Michael was lucky to have had him as his lieutenant for six years, longer than any other team mate. And in these six years Michael won 5 WDCs.

yes because it was rubens doing the hundreds of thousands of miles of testing at muggelo every year ? you guys are so desperate to have a go at schumacher, you cant do it about his performance relative to his team mate so far this weekend so you try to pull any old BS out of the wood work.
we all know schumachers team mates didnt see mugello much while schumacher may aswell have lived there

#5115 Massa

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 01:03

Nevermind aditya.

Rubens has raced for several teams, making them grow like Jordan, Stewart, Ferrari, Brawn and now Williams. When he left, the whole team performance dropped in a noticeable way.



Jordan in 1998 and 1999 was the third force in formula, with Hill, Frentzen and Ralf.
Ferrari since 2005: second car in 2006.
Title in 2007.
Title in 2008
third car with Macca in 2009. Oh, Ferrari need Rubens, since he left nothing goes well... :rotfl:

The whole team performance of Brawn dropped after Turkey 2009, Barrichello was still at Brawn GP.

Edited by Massa, 29 August 2010 - 01:06.


#5116 SeanValen

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 01:10

It's good to see MS enjoying Spa again, it's been what like 5 years since he raced there and Sato took him out in his last race in 2005, and there was no Spa race in 2006-his last year at ferrari, then his retirement, on friday/saturday looking at his times and general driving vibe-seems pumped up to make the best of a bad situation, the penality and a car that isn't handling well, but still enjoying it, what a competitor. Sometimes being at Spa in a f1 car is just damn right cool in its own right, great track, great competitors, the spectare of rain/forests/the 1st corner at la source, this is f1! :smoking: :up:


Positive vibes :up:

Edited by SeanValen, 29 August 2010 - 01:12.


#5117 cindy4ever33

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 03:03

We all want MGP and Michael to do well. I didn't hear that MGP hire some new good specialists. Do you have any source or you just think this right thing to do? I said that Reno and Williams have better engineers because they improve constantly, their updates work , when MGP is going back. Yes it is true that Williams and Reno have better base(car) to work on. MGP is looking now like amateur team. I am not happy with this. For me drivers are victims only. I don't think Williams have more staff than MGP , this is not why they are better. As I said their updates work because base is better. MGP car don't have much potential for improvement. Lower air intake is problem for the car more than help. This is because they can't make normal F-duct this way.


Rumors said Nicolas Tombasiz will go to MGP. It is said in German source and no one yet confirms or denies the rumor.

#5118 slaveceru

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 04:32

Rubens 7th
Michael 11th

Interesting to see the comparison where Barrichello took Williams in development this year and where Michael took Mercedes in development this year.
Come to think of it, Michael won all his WDCs with Ferrari while Rubens was his teammate....after Rubens left Ferrari, Michael did not cut it anymore.

Jenson became WDC last year, again with Rubens doing the development work.

So while it is clear that Rubens is not a driver of WDC calibre, he is a pretty good developer and team worker. It´s great to see Williams on the up after 5 years in the doldrums, and it is telling to see where Mercedes is going within the same span of time with Michael doing the development at Merc....

Say it straigh Rubens is better developer of cars than Schumacher :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
You say that Rubens developed the car for Schumacher in Ferrari jet Rubens has always said that he does not like driving the car which was developed strictly for Schumacher who had No1 status. It is getting better and better. If Rubens would develop the car for him and Schumacher that he would like the car and not say that all the team was concentrated on Schumacher and the car was strictly prepared and developed for Schumacher? This is trolling.
If the base of the car is not good, this is the case with MPG car, than the drivers input cannot help in the development because the base is crap is this not clear or what?

#5119 Kovalonso

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:27

Thanks for the kind words, Kovalanso.

You're welcome :wave:

Edited by Buttoneer, 29 August 2010 - 23:15.


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#5120 MaxisOne

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:58

Rumors said Nicolas Tombasiz will go to MGP. It is said in German source and no one yet confirms or denies the rumor.


Post the source please ..


#5121 aditya-now

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 06:03

yes because it was rubens doing the hundreds of thousands of miles of testing at muggelo every year ? you guys are so desperate to have a go at schumacher, you cant do it about his performance relative to his team mate so far this weekend so you try to pull any old BS out of the wood work.
we all know schumachers team mates didnt see mugello much while schumacher may aswell have lived there


You mean Maranello or Mugello?


#5122 cindy4ever33

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 06:25

Post the source please ..


The link is http://www.bild.de/B...chste-jahr.html

Mercedes plant schon für das nächste Jahr


2011 SOLL ES ENDLICH BESSER WERDEN: SCHUMIS RENNSTALL BAGGERT AN FERRARIS CHEFDESIGNER

Im Chefbüro der Silberpfeile liegt eine 288 Seiten starke Mappe auf dem Tisch von Teamchef Ross Brawn. Der Atomphysiker mit dem Spitznamen „Superhirn“ hat vom neuen Reifenhersteller Pirelli die wichtigen Infos bekommen, wie die Gummis der Formel-1-Autos nächstes Jahr aussehen werden.

Damit hat Brawn jetzt endlich alle Puzzleteile zusammen. Er sagt: „Wir können jetzt richtig loslegen.“ Mercedes baut ab sofort mit Volldampf das Auto für 2011. Schon 2008 hat Schumis Superhirn mit diesem Trick Erfolg gehabt. Er ließ den lahmen Honda ohne große Entwicklungen weiterfahren und setzte alles auf das Auto ein Jahr später. Prompt glückte ihm ein Meisterwagen.

Auch dieses Jahr hat das Team im WM-Kampf keine Chance mehr. Das weiß intern bei Mercedes mittlerweile jeder.

Auch wenn Schumi in Valencia noch öffentlich gesagt hat: „Es ist zu früh, sich auf das nächste Jahr zu konzentrieren.“ Das muss er sagen. Sein Arbeitgeber Mercedes kann sich nicht leisten, mehr als eine halbe Saison lang hinterherzufahren und dabei den Anschein zu erwecken, freiwillig abzuschenken. Deshalb wird offiziell volle Pulle weiterentwickelt.

Mercedes-Boss Norbert Haug klingt immer noch kämpferisch: „Wartet ab. Da kommt noch was.“

Doch Mercedes kann lange auf das Wunder warten. Brawn ist mit dem ersten Silberpfeil nur ein solides Auto gelungen. Es fehlte von Anfang an die große Erfindung, um den Wagen an die Spitze zu führen. Michael Schumacher (41) und Nico Rosberg (25) sind derzeit das schlechteste der vier Topteams. Und nichts spricht dafür, dass sich daran in den verbleibenden 10 von 19 Rennen noch etwas ändert.

Bereits jetzt stellt das Team deshalb seine Mannschaft für 2011 auf. Von Ferrari soll Chefdesigner Nikolas Tombazis weggelockt werden. Der Grieche kenntSchumi und Ross Brawn schon ewig. Er arbeitete bei Benetton als Aerodynamiker an Schumis beiden Titeln mit. Er holte mit Schumi bis 2003 vier Titel bei Ferrari. Sein Spezialgebiet ist die Aerodynamik. Auch so ein Schwachpunkt am Mercedes. Offiziell wird dementiert. Aber Ferrari will den Spitzenmann unbedingt halten und richtet sich auf eine Abwehrschlacht ein.

Schumi braucht die Hilfe.

Er schlägt sich nach seinen drei Jahren Pause zwar passabel, aber glücklos. Sein Riesenproblem kann er noch nicht lösen: Schumi weiß nicht, wie er mit den Reifen besser umgehen kann. Die Gummis sind hochempfindlich, müssen auf die richtige Temperatur (zwischen 80 und 90 Grad) gebracht werden, sonst bleibt jede Menge Zeit liegen. Ein falsches Bremsmanöver und die Dinger sind hinüber. Schumi: „Wir wissen selbst nicht, warum das so ist.“ Nächstes Jahr, wenn statt Bridgestone nun Pirelli Reifen liefert, könnte alles noch komplizierter werden. Die Mercedes-Arbeitsgruppe, die sich ausschließlich um Reifen kümmert, wird deshalb vergrößert.

Noch hat Mercedes das kleinste der vier Topteams. Vor der Mercedes-Übernahme im Winter wusste Teamchef Brawn nicht, wie er das Team finanzieren kann.
Er hat deshalb 280 Leute entlassen. 450 Mitarbeiter sind noch in Brackley beschäftigt. Ab nächstem Jahr sind alle Teams gleich groß: Dann darf die Rennmannschaft nur noch aus maximal 350 Mann bestehen. Ferrari, McLaren oder Red Bull müssen zum Teil mehr als die Hälfte ihrer Leute entlassen. Das wird eine Chance.

Die Männer um das Superhirn wissen bereits, wie man mit der kleinen Besetzung arbeitet. Die anderen Teams müssen diese Umstellung erst noch hinkriegen.

Auch Schumi schuftet weiter hart, um näher ranzukommen. Samstag in Valencia saß er noch lange im Technik-LKW und verglich Datenblatt um Datenblatt. Das Abendessen ließ er sich unter Alufolie verpackt bringen.
Er nahm sich nicht einmal die Zeit, in den Speiseraum zu kommen.



#5123 ivand911

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 07:56

Rubens 7th
Sutil 8th
Rookie 9th
Alonso 10th
Michael 11th
Why to put only 7th and 11th position, when we put other positions too picture change dramatically. And somebody here discuss that Rubens is better in development than Michael. If you ask me then he is better than Alonso too. Alonso make his car look bad, where Massa show car true potential. Retirement come to mind. This is familiar situation Nico/Michael. Just to remember what garbage we hear then. One of the best driver now with his very good car finished Qualy only one position before Michael and his dog car. He is not good for Ferrari, he don't deserve his salary. Look Massa is good in development. Alonso did not cut it anymore(here I just change the name). He think he is still on holiday and driving for Renault. But look where is Renault now and where is Ferrari. Somebody kill their(Ferrari) development. Even Hulk and Sutil are better in development.
But still Alonso can do something good in the race, I still believe in him.

Edited by ivand911, 29 August 2010 - 08:00.


#5124 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 08:50

yes because it was rubens doing the hundreds of thousands of miles of testing at muggelo every year ?

That was Luca Badoer.

#5125 Massa

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 10:38

That was Luca Badoer.



False. That was Schumacher. For example, for the 2006 season, he has not gone on vacation and testing the new car all winter.

#5126 Paco

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 11:43

so your source is you guessing and assuming?

i cant believe brawn would sack hundreds of people to meet the suposed staff limit which might never happens anyway, you see ferrari , redbull , mclaren etc firing half of their staff? , impose pay freezes etc just to hire all these new workers you dreamed up.

but hey if that is the case no wonder the upgrades arent working morale will be rock bottom


I never said Brawn fired hundreds and if he did, there was probably a reason for it. That doesn't mean anything if it did happen as they were probably simply replaced, maybe not 1 for 1 but it's not about the absolutely number of staff but the quality of them. 1 good engineer can make up for 10 poors one so absolute count is meaningless. Especially when you look at McLaren and Ferrari that probably use their engineers for side projects not related to F1.



#5127 Paco

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 11:45

The one thing I'll say about Rubens and his manager, they have an uncanny knack of putting him into the right position at the right time.

I for one would wish the man would just go away already but yet, he finds a way to stay on the grid year after year and making the most of this opportunities. Kudo's to him for being able to do that. Very very very few drivers have ever been able to do that for as long as he been able to.

#5128 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 11:52

I never said Brawn fired hundreds and if he did, there was probably a reason for it. That doesn't mean anything if it did happen as they were probably simply replaced, maybe not 1 for 1 but it's not about the absolutely number of staff but the quality of them. 1 good engineer can make up for 10 poors one so absolute count is meaningless. Especially when you look at McLaren and Ferrari that probably use their engineers for side projects not related to F1.

they were fired , they were never replaced, brawn are the only team under what should be the staff cap if the FIA actually implement it.

brawn seems to have taken a gamble on having an advantage if the cap gets introduced but non of the other teams will want to just fire hundreds of staff

#5129 Massa_f1

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:34

Good drive today let the haters say what they want just cause Rosberg beat him but good solid drive from the back.

#5130 Tarzaan

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:36

It was not bad. The low downforce set-up wasn't good after the last SC, but the +14 place is good.

Monza should be horrible with this car/top-speed.

#5131 z2z

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:38

Hail Kaiser!!! :D

#5132 marchi-91

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:40

Great race from Michael. Only thing that got Rosberg near him was that last safety car. Outclassed all day and only a more rain dedicated setup stopped Rosberg from being deservedly beaten.

#5133 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:43

Good drive today let the haters say what they want just cause Rosberg beat him but good solid drive from the back.

yea good race imo, he couldnt really have done much better with the car its a pitty a safety cat at the end robbed him and im pretty sure schumacher wasnt the 6th car behind the safety car, it didnt look like a mercedes to me anyway so i can only assume he had traffic straight after the safety car pulled into the pits which led to his downfall.

he showed good pace throughout the race until the end though, he was definetly quicker than rosberg until the very end , it seemed rosberg had a better setup for a wet race which would make sense imo seeing as schumacher was faster throughout the weekend in s1 and 3 which suggested he had a lower downforce setup..


no doubt the trolls will come out in force and spoil this topic though

#5134 Urawa

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:43

Yeah, faultless drive.
If somebody would have told me before this weekend he would finish only one place behind his teammate I would have taken that immediately!

#5135 Boing 2

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:48

Great race from Michael. Only thing that got Rosberg near him was that last safety car. Outclassed all day and only a more rain dedicated setup stopped Rosberg from being deservedly beaten.



surely the fact that the majority of the race was dry would mean that a wet set up was a bigger hinderance than benefit, to beat a guy with a more suitable set up was impressive.

#5136 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:51

surely the fact that the majority of the race was dry would mean that a wet set up was a bigger hinderance than benefit, to beat a guy with a more suitable set up was impressive.

yea that safety car was impressive that 10 place grid drop was an epic move by rosberg aswell. if you want to troll go do it in the rosberg vs schumacher thread FFS!

#5137 Boing 2

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:55

yea that safety car was impressive that 10 place grid drop was an epic move by rosberg aswell. if you want to troll go do it in the rosberg vs schumacher thread FFS!



now now, don't be bitter! :wave:

#5138 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:56

1

Edited by arknor, 29 August 2010 - 13:58.


#5139 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:57

now now, don't be bitter! :wave:

im not bitter just sick of people coming in here to talk about rosberg its the SCHUMACHER THREAD if you want to discuss rosberg vs schumacher then go do it in the correct place.

you guys taint this thread every weekend garunteed, schumacher could get pole and win at monza and someone would come in here claiming traction control ,vtech , nos , turbo boost or some rubbish

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#5140 Boing 2

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:59

im not bitter just sick of people coming in here to talk about rosberg its the SCHUMACHER THREAD if you want to discuss rosberg vs schumacher then go do it in the correct place.

you guys taint this thread every weekend garunteed, schumacher could get pole and win at monza and someone would come in here claiming traction control ,vtech , nos , turbo boost or some rubbish



actually.........

Great race from Michael. Only thing that got Rosberg near him was that last safety car. Outclassed all day and only a more rain dedicated setup stopped Rosberg from being deservedly beaten.



it wasn't me who brought rosberg into the thread :wave:

#5141 Galko877

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:09

I think it was a good race by Michael. :up:

#5142 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:21

Great race from Michael. Only thing that got Rosberg near him was that last safety car. Outclassed all day and only a more rain dedicated setup stopped Rosberg from being deservedly beaten.

Rosberg was within 2,5 seconds of Michael all the time, despite having a damaged front wing and a wet setup.

#5143 ivand911

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:32

I was worried that Michael puncture his tyre on Nico FW. Houg was happy after the race, good interview on RTL. Michael was also happy.

#5144 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:04

I'm not being a sychophant but after today's performance I think Schumacher has alot more to give the sport. Rosberg on the other hand I feel is driving on the limit and just coming out ahead. That is my personal opinion anyway.

Next year should be very interesting. Eddie Jordan's comments keep ringing in my ears though.

#5145 cindy4ever33

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:06

A good race for Michael. From P21 to P7, with points home, I think he has done everything he could in W01 car. I noticed that Ross Brawn said after race that the blown diffuser of W01 still didn't work as what they wanted. So Monza will be a race with low expectations IMO.

#5146 merschu

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 20:17

Michael's post-race interview.




#5147 Buttoneer

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 23:39

You know better than that.

Was it not always said, that it is one of Michael´s strongest points to "gel a team", to spur the team spirit, to pull them all together?
Of course the driver is not the technical brain nor the engineering team, but he is in a pivotal position to pull all the strings together.

And at the moment Rubens appears to be doing just that better than Michael does.

From my point of view that's indisputable. What you intended to say with the earlier post doesn't appear to be is what you have put above. Your point was this;

Rubens 7th
Michael 11th

Interesting to see the comparison where Barrichello took Williams in development this year and where Michael took Mercedes in development this year.
Come to think of it, Michael won all his WDCs with Ferrari while Rubens was his teammate....after Rubens left Ferrari, Michael did not cut it anymore.

Which ignores two WDC's without Barrichello, ignores the general pace of development of other teams this year, ignores the level of untapped performance in the cars, ignores the basic platform which was in place long before Schumacher and Barrichello joined their teams etc etc.

So I stand by my statement that it was a poor argument, and I believe the rather simplistic (I may even call it lazy) way you put it across makes me believe you know this. I can assure you that I say that only because I am confident you're a poster who will normally display good knowledge of the sport so it's not all negative :lol:

#5148 aditya-now

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 03:15

Good drive today let the haters say what they want just cause Rosberg beat him but good solid drive from the back.


To me it was Michael´s best drive of the season. Better than Monaco, I´d say.
Yet, as you say, he was outperformed by his teammate.


#5149 aditya-now

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 03:23

From my point of view that's indisputable. What you intended to say with the earlier post doesn't appear to be is what you have put above. Your point was this;...

....So I stand by my statement that it was a poor argument, and I believe the rather simplistic (I may even call it lazy) way you put it across makes me believe you know this. I can assure you that I say that only because I am confident you're a poster who will normally display good knowledge of the sport so it's not all negative :lol:


So I have expressed myself not clearly enough in my first statement, which you called "poor argument", as I intended to say what I explained further in my second post.
Misunderstanding, I would say, you could not understand my argument better due to my poor formulation, and likewise, my intention was misread by you.

Things like this happen on the track all the time, both drivers misread each others intention, and sometimes they both end off in the gravel trap. Racing incident.

Also, I am confident you understand that Rubens is not doing that bad this year (the first lap of Spa excluded :blush: ) and I stand by my position, Rubens is doing proportionally better than Michael in 2010, in terms of the Williams/Mercedes equation and also in terms of their respective career achievements.

I think despite the misunderstanding we both understand each other.


Which ignores two WDC's without Barrichello, ignores the general pace of development of other teams this year, ignores the level of untapped performance in the cars, ignores the basic platform which was in place long before Schumacher and Barrichello joined their teams etc etc.


The two WDCs without Barrichello are not being ignored - I clearly stated that Michael won all his championships with Ferrari with Rubens as his #2.
As in this case we are observing what help Rubens was to Michael. Is there any other #2 driver in the history of F1 who has been backing his #1 to win 5 championships?
And tellingly, without Rubens at Ferrari Michael did not cut it. In the six years they spent together Michael got his 5 WDCs with Ferrari.

The other factors you mention as being ignored can all be discussed hither and tither. Of course, I know I am over-simplifying, yet you also know that Rubens is not doing that bad in 2010 and that Michael is not doing that good in 2010.
And you know where Williams have been the last five years - now it seems Rubens leads them out of the doldrums. Just ask anyone from the Williams Team how happy they are with Rubens.

Edited by aditya-now, 30 August 2010 - 03:43.


#5150 Craven Morehead

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 05:04

Michael's post-race interview.


That's a great interview. He's obviously relaxed and having fun. When asked about the two little things with Rosberg, he was very chilled. :up: