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#5151 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:51

surely the fact that the majority of the race was dry would mean that a wet set up was a bigger hinderance than benefit, to beat a guy with a more suitable set up was impressive.

yea that safety car was impressive that 10 place grid drop was an epic move by rosberg aswell. if you want to troll go do it in the rosberg vs schumacher thread FFS!

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#5152 Boing 2

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:55

yea that safety car was impressive that 10 place grid drop was an epic move by rosberg aswell. if you want to troll go do it in the rosberg vs schumacher thread FFS!



now now, don't be bitter! :wave:

#5153 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:56

1

Edited by arknor, 29 August 2010 - 13:58.


#5154 arknor

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:57

now now, don't be bitter! :wave:

im not bitter just sick of people coming in here to talk about rosberg its the SCHUMACHER THREAD if you want to discuss rosberg vs schumacher then go do it in the correct place.

you guys taint this thread every weekend garunteed, schumacher could get pole and win at monza and someone would come in here claiming traction control ,vtech , nos , turbo boost or some rubbish

#5155 Boing 2

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:59

im not bitter just sick of people coming in here to talk about rosberg its the SCHUMACHER THREAD if you want to discuss rosberg vs schumacher then go do it in the correct place.

you guys taint this thread every weekend garunteed, schumacher could get pole and win at monza and someone would come in here claiming traction control ,vtech , nos , turbo boost or some rubbish



actually.........

Great race from Michael. Only thing that got Rosberg near him was that last safety car. Outclassed all day and only a more rain dedicated setup stopped Rosberg from being deservedly beaten.



it wasn't me who brought rosberg into the thread :wave:

#5156 Galko877

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:09

I think it was a good race by Michael. :up:

#5157 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:21

Great race from Michael. Only thing that got Rosberg near him was that last safety car. Outclassed all day and only a more rain dedicated setup stopped Rosberg from being deservedly beaten.

Rosberg was within 2,5 seconds of Michael all the time, despite having a damaged front wing and a wet setup.

#5158 ivand911

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:32

I was worried that Michael puncture his tyre on Nico FW. Houg was happy after the race, good interview on RTL. Michael was also happy.

#5159 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:04

I'm not being a sychophant but after today's performance I think Schumacher has alot more to give the sport. Rosberg on the other hand I feel is driving on the limit and just coming out ahead. That is my personal opinion anyway.

Next year should be very interesting. Eddie Jordan's comments keep ringing in my ears though.

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#5160 cindy4ever33

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:06

A good race for Michael. From P21 to P7, with points home, I think he has done everything he could in W01 car. I noticed that Ross Brawn said after race that the blown diffuser of W01 still didn't work as what they wanted. So Monza will be a race with low expectations IMO.

#5161 merschu

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 20:17

Michael's post-race interview.




#5162 Buttoneer

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 23:39

You know better than that.

Was it not always said, that it is one of Michael´s strongest points to "gel a team", to spur the team spirit, to pull them all together?
Of course the driver is not the technical brain nor the engineering team, but he is in a pivotal position to pull all the strings together.

And at the moment Rubens appears to be doing just that better than Michael does.

From my point of view that's indisputable. What you intended to say with the earlier post doesn't appear to be is what you have put above. Your point was this;

Rubens 7th
Michael 11th

Interesting to see the comparison where Barrichello took Williams in development this year and where Michael took Mercedes in development this year.
Come to think of it, Michael won all his WDCs with Ferrari while Rubens was his teammate....after Rubens left Ferrari, Michael did not cut it anymore.

Which ignores two WDC's without Barrichello, ignores the general pace of development of other teams this year, ignores the level of untapped performance in the cars, ignores the basic platform which was in place long before Schumacher and Barrichello joined their teams etc etc.

So I stand by my statement that it was a poor argument, and I believe the rather simplistic (I may even call it lazy) way you put it across makes me believe you know this. I can assure you that I say that only because I am confident you're a poster who will normally display good knowledge of the sport so it's not all negative :lol:

#5163 aditya-now

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 03:15

Good drive today let the haters say what they want just cause Rosberg beat him but good solid drive from the back.


To me it was Michael´s best drive of the season. Better than Monaco, I´d say.
Yet, as you say, he was outperformed by his teammate.


#5164 aditya-now

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 03:23

From my point of view that's indisputable. What you intended to say with the earlier post doesn't appear to be is what you have put above. Your point was this;...

....So I stand by my statement that it was a poor argument, and I believe the rather simplistic (I may even call it lazy) way you put it across makes me believe you know this. I can assure you that I say that only because I am confident you're a poster who will normally display good knowledge of the sport so it's not all negative :lol:


So I have expressed myself not clearly enough in my first statement, which you called "poor argument", as I intended to say what I explained further in my second post.
Misunderstanding, I would say, you could not understand my argument better due to my poor formulation, and likewise, my intention was misread by you.

Things like this happen on the track all the time, both drivers misread each others intention, and sometimes they both end off in the gravel trap. Racing incident.

Also, I am confident you understand that Rubens is not doing that bad this year (the first lap of Spa excluded :blush: ) and I stand by my position, Rubens is doing proportionally better than Michael in 2010, in terms of the Williams/Mercedes equation and also in terms of their respective career achievements.

I think despite the misunderstanding we both understand each other.


Which ignores two WDC's without Barrichello, ignores the general pace of development of other teams this year, ignores the level of untapped performance in the cars, ignores the basic platform which was in place long before Schumacher and Barrichello joined their teams etc etc.


The two WDCs without Barrichello are not being ignored - I clearly stated that Michael won all his championships with Ferrari with Rubens as his #2.
As in this case we are observing what help Rubens was to Michael. Is there any other #2 driver in the history of F1 who has been backing his #1 to win 5 championships?
And tellingly, without Rubens at Ferrari Michael did not cut it. In the six years they spent together Michael got his 5 WDCs with Ferrari.

The other factors you mention as being ignored can all be discussed hither and tither. Of course, I know I am over-simplifying, yet you also know that Rubens is not doing that bad in 2010 and that Michael is not doing that good in 2010.
And you know where Williams have been the last five years - now it seems Rubens leads them out of the doldrums. Just ask anyone from the Williams Team how happy they are with Rubens.

Edited by aditya-now, 30 August 2010 - 03:43.


#5165 Craven Morehead

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 05:04

Michael's post-race interview.


That's a great interview. He's obviously relaxed and having fun. When asked about the two little things with Rosberg, he was very chilled. :up:

#5166 SeanValen

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:28

yea good race imo, he couldnt really have done much better with the car its a pitty a safety cat at the end robbed him and im pretty sure schumacher wasnt the 6th car behind the safety car, it didnt look like a mercedes to me anyway so i can only assume he had traffic straight after the safety car pulled into the pits which led to his downfall.

he showed good pace throughout the race until the end though, he was definetly quicker than rosberg until the very end , it seemed rosberg had a better setup for a wet race which would make sense imo seeing as schumacher was faster throughout the weekend in s1 and 3 which suggested he had a lower downforce setup..


no doubt the trolls will come out in force and spoil this topic though



:up:


You could tell in his vibe leading up to the race, if there's one track where he wants to do well with pride, it's tracks like Monaco and Spa, and he has done well at those tracks this year along with Spain, these are important examples this year where he's made this car which he doesnt like handle well enough to do well on these tracks which historically he's been at home with in the past, these are drivers tracks. Alot of people made fuss about Canada, but Canada is a breaking track, and with that Merc this year, it's one track where he didn't find a solution ona track you think he should of done well at, but because he didn't get it right on that track, I wasn't too bothered because I knew he's finding these tyres in combination with this car one of the hardest challenges he's faced for himself, he's done well there in the past, but Canada does not have the Spa/Spain/Monaco/Turkey type corners which are more to MS's likings in his style, and it's a good omen he has done well at these tracks this year in this car in his comeback, fighting for points/not podiums or wins, that's the car, but it's good signs he's done well with this car for these tracks, he's made the hard tyres work in what seems like a very constricted and limited car with set up options that are effected by the way the car was born, maybe having this type of season with a bad car is probabley going to be good for him and having Rosberg who is a talent and has been around in the years since he's been away can only push him in the coming seasons to perhaps have the best driver pairing in the paddock.good for Mercedes.

:smoking:

Another thing, not just including this race, but all year, is Michael on the verge of breaking some record on most places made up on the first lap, really, all year he's been getting these amazing starts and making up positions, it's added great spark to the start line action, it's entertaining.


A good race for Michael. From P21 to P7, with points home, I think he has done everything he could in W01 car. I noticed that Ross Brawn said after race that the blown diffuser of W01 still didn't work as what they wanted. So Monza will be a race with low expectations IMO.



:up:


And did you see the straight line speed of Sutil at Spa....the force Indai's will be a problem for Mercedes at Monza, and with Renault's F Duct plus podium at Spa, Mercedes would do very well to hold off Renault for 4th place for constructors for the remaining races, looks like Kubica and Renault may be the major target that Merc will have difficulity keeping up with.

Edited by SeanValen, 30 August 2010 - 06:40.


#5167 black magic

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:50

well should silence the bring back heidfield brigade

any rookie who at spa started 21 and ended 7th would have got good dibs and would have been runner for drive of the day - except on bbc of course

#5168 as65p

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:19

It's funny how the game is totally reversed compared to MS' first career. Rosberg always seems to put one over him, even on his better days, just like MS used to back then.

All in all a good race from him, he certainly deserves a place in the current field - only that the "Rosberg problem" won't go away, not even if MGP builds a rocket ship for 2011.

#5169 Fortymark

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:46

That's a great interview. He's obviously relaxed and having fun. When asked about the two little things with Rosberg, he was very chilled. :up:


I thought it was very much typical Schumacher.
"He hit my rear tire"
How could Rosberg hit MS tire when the only thing Rosberg did
was get back to the racing line? (which he had every right to)

It was a racing incident but it´s so typical of Schumacher to be
this arrogant bloke whom can´t do anything wrong, it´s always
somebody´s else fault.

What about: I touched his front wing unfortunately when I saw the oppurtunity to pass
him, but that´s racing

#5170 man

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:27

I'm not really sure why M Schumacher fanatics are patting themselves on the back for a "good job". Let's bring some realism here, it wasn't a particularly good drive, he kept out of trouble, yes, and he didn't do any thing reckless which was nice for all concerned but this 21st to 7th business needs some perspective. He inherited his position from incidents rather than impressive driving. Roberto Moreno brought his AGS home in 6th position at the 1987 Australian GP you know ;-) M Schumachers performance was nothing to write home about. He was beaten for racecraft again by his teammate who had a damaged wing for much of the race. All in all, M Schumachers performance wasn't shameful but it certainly wasn't top class either. Rosberg with a damaged wing and a car that was set-up for full wet conditions maintained a 2 sec gap when it was dry. That is a cause for concern.

As for Rosberg, again it seems like what ever M Schumacher tries to do, Rosberg always seems to put him back into his place as the second driver of the team. This gives the impression that although M Schumacher is giving 100 percent as he always has done through his career, Rosberg seems to be driving within himself. If you remember when Wurz came into F1 it gave both Alesi and Berger a bit of a wake up call. Berger suddenly came back an showed his old spark at Hockenheim. Niccos father Keke did the same thing as Wurz when he arrived in F1. I think perhaps a Genuinely fast top driver in te other Mercedes could see Rosberg in a different light. Thus far the jury is out, he is better than M Schumacher yes, but I'm not sure if he could be respectable alongside a Vettel, Webber let alone Alonso or Hamilton. Things seem just a bit too easy for him there and he needs to be pushed.

#5171 hansmann

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:29

I thought it was very much typical Schumacher.

What about: I touched his front wing unfortunately when I saw the oppurtunity to pass
him, but that´s racing


I think it was an unfortunate, minor racing incident, and nothing MS could have done to avoid it; he had to make the move, and did it well, Nico moved back on track a tad too far, but was in a tight spot after recovering from his misshap.

So I think technically Nico hit Michael, who was on the other hand not giving much room, but under the circumstances neither driver was being naughty or making a silly mistake - just good racing on the edge .

Nico's later overtaking of MS made me smile, even though I favor Michael, but a bold, smooth move by the youngster, maybe a little naughty there.

Michael took it in good spirit, no sore looser for sure ; that is, if you want to call him a looser at all after this excellent drive . ;)

#5172 Polle

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:37

I thought it was very much typical Schumacher.
"He hit my rear tire"
How could Rosberg hit MS tire when the only thing Rosberg did
was get back to the racing line? (which he had every right to)

It was a racing incident but it´s so typical of Schumacher to be
this arrogant bloke whom can´t do anything wrong, it´s always
somebody´s else fault.

What about: I touched his front wing unfortunately when I saw the oppurtunity to pass
him, but that´s racing



I don't see anything in this which suggests he can do no wrong. The clipping of the wing is debatable since both cars converged into each other. As if you'll say "I hit his wing with my rear tyre" The fault usually *always* lies with the person behind no matter what your opinion is. Just look at Vettel and his 3 separate incidents. Michael is a very stern driver and can sometimes really push the rules which I don't like. At least he apologized to Rubins, so he atleast has some heart.

#5173 Fortymark

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:47

I think it was an unfortunate, minor racing incident, and nothing MS could have done to avoid it; he had to make the move, and did it well, Nico moved back on track a tad too far, but was in a tight spot after recovering from his misshap.

So I think technically Nico hit Michael, who was on the other hand not giving much room, but under the circumstances neither driver was being naughty or making a silly mistake - just good racing on the edge .


I disagree, what the replay again. Rosberg reenters the track which he should, he takes some space to have a better
line through the corner. Schumacher now goes very close to Rosberg and hits him, he could have avoided it
by now going so close to NR. Schumacher would have passed him anyway
Look here:

Edit: watch it to the end, about 45 sec in it´s from NR onboard camera.
When MS hits Rosberg, you cam see he´s got at least 1 meter more space to his left

Edited by Fortymark, 30 August 2010 - 09:51.


#5174 Skinnyguy

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:55

I disagree, what the replay again. Rosberg reenters the track which he should, he takes some space to have a better
line through the corner. Schumacher now goes very close to Rosberg and hits him, he could have avoided it
by now going so close to NR. Schumacher would have passed him anyway
Look here:

Edit: watch it to the end, about 45 sec in it´s from NR onboard camera.
When MS hits Rosberg, you cam see he´s got at least 1 meter more space to his left


No chance, if he had gone wider, I think he would be off the racetrack on the exit, which he almost did anyway. He did OK, he had he momentum and a better line and took the chance. For me it is Nico failing to mantain a tight enough line... he didn´t exactly left a car width at the exit.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 30 August 2010 - 09:58.


#5175 Spa95

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 10:00

It was Nico who went off the circuit. It's his job to avoid any collision when he rejoins the track.

End off.

#5176 Fortymark

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 10:04

No chance, if he had gone wider, I think he would be off the racetrack on the exit, which he almost did anyway. He did OK, he had he momentum and a better line and took the chance. For me it is Nico failing to mantain a tight enough line... he didn´t exactly left a car width at the exit.


I think we just have to disagree here. :)
On the clip you can see that Schumacher gets a little unsettled/unstable due to his
contact with Rosberg, that´s why it looks like he almost runs out of racetrack, he needs
to correct his car. If he hadn´t touched Rosberg he wouldn´t need to countersteer

#5177 SpeedyS

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 11:29

I thought it was very much typical Schumacher.
"He hit my rear tire"
How could Rosberg hit MS tire when the only thing Rosberg did
was get back to the racing line? (which he had every right to)

It was a racing incident but it´s so typical of Schumacher to be
this arrogant bloke whom can´t do anything wrong, it´s always
somebody´s else fault.

What about: I touched his front wing unfortunately when I saw the oppurtunity to pass
him, but that´s racing


Fare, Ms says somethings sometimes which are arrogant like most great sports people do but I dont think you will win many fans trying to use this as example "he hit my rear tire" This is speaking by facts as most non born English speakers do, I mean your walking in the supermarket and some clips your foot from behind you would'nt say I walked into their cart...

I think you are seeing what you want to see when watching the pass, MS passed him on the racing line because NR was off the racing line, NR moved back 0.001 sec to early.
If it had been any different there would be hundreds of media all over it with what happen 4 weeks ago.

Edited by SpeedyS, 30 August 2010 - 11:40.


#5178 scarletf12002

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 11:38

Sometimes I think that even if Schumacher started at the back of the grid and finished 1st, without having got into any controversy, people would still say "oh must have been driving the best car or other drivers didn't really challenge him!" Give credit where credit was due people!
Coming from 21st to 7th is not bad for anybody especially given the changing conditions yesterday. To say he benefited from circumstances maybe true to a certain degree but you have to make hay when the sun shines or to put it another way you are just knit-picking!

#5179 man

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 11:50

Sometimes I think that even if Schumacher started at the back of the grid and finished 1st, without having got into any controversy, people would still say "oh must have been driving the best car or other drivers didn't really challenge him!" Give credit where credit was due people!
Coming from 21st to 7th is not bad for anybody especially given the changing conditions yesterday. To say he benefited from circumstances maybe true to a certain degree but you have to make hay when the sun shines or to put it another way you are just knit-picking!


As I said, it wasn't a bad drive but it wasn't particularly impressive. Incidents and circumstances for other drivers is what enabled him to finish where did. It wasn't a case of he overtook all the cars that finished behind him and he beat them for pace and skill. Morbidelli and Panis finished on the podium in 1994 at Adelaide, I don't recall anybody then making a big song and dance about how impressive they were. Let's keep it realistic. ;-)

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#5180 Massa

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 12:09

As I said, it wasn't a bad drive but it wasn't particularly impressive. Incidents and circumstances for other drivers is what enabled him to finish where did. It wasn't a case of he overtook all the cars that finished behind him and he beat them for pace and skill. Morbidelli and Panis finished on the podium in 1994 at Adelaide, I don't recall anybody then making a big song and dance about how impressive they were. Let's keep it realistic. ;-)



Adelaide 94 : Mansell, Berger, Brundle.

Panis 5th at one lap.
Morbidelli brake his engine.

In 94, never Morbidelli finish on the podium.

It's in 95 Morbidelli finish on podium with panis... But 8 cars finished the race... At Spa, 20 cars finished the race...

Edited by Massa, 30 August 2010 - 12:13.


#5181 man

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 12:23

Adelaide 94 : Mansell, Berger, Brundle.

Panis 5th at one lap.
Morbidelli brake his engine.

In 94, never Morbidelli finish on the podium.

It's in 95 Morbidelli finish on podium with panis... But 8 cars finished the race... At Spa, 20 cars finished the race...


A typo ;-)

Regardless a quick glance at the race classification and post race comments from teams and drivers will suggest 7th was pretty much handed to M Schumacher on a plate. All he had to do was keep the car on the island which to his credit he did but not much else. If bringing the car home in one piece is the barometer of a good drive, standards have certainly dived. ;-)

#5182 slaveceru

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 12:37

A typo ;-)

Regardless a quick glance at the race classification and post race comments from teams and drivers will suggest 7th was pretty much handed to M Schumacher on a plate. All he had to do was keep the car on the island which to his credit he did but not much else. If bringing the car home in one piece is the barometer of a good drive, standards have certainly dived. ;-)


If we compare yesterday drive form him to previous drives prior retirement than it was nothing special as you have said it, but if you compare it to the result this year it was the best drive from him yesterday.

#5183 cheapracer

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 13:13

As I said, it wasn't a bad drive but it wasn't particularly impressive. Incidents and circumstances for other drivers is what enabled him to finish where did.


So what you are saying is that even though others made mistakes their efforts are still better than the Guys who didn't make mistakes?

Don't bother replying, I can see the only way clear here is to put you and that tecnical genius Fortymark on my ignore list, something I should have done some time ago.


Which ignores two WDC's without Barrichello, ignores the general pace of development of other teams this year, ignores the level of untapped performance in the cars, ignores the basic platform which was in place long before Schumacher and Barrichello joined their teams etc etc.


and totally ignores all the available public information since the start of the year of which peices Williams have been waiting to put onto the car, parts they have had before Rubens even drove the first lap.

Edited by cheapracer, 30 August 2010 - 13:31.


#5184 cheapracer

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 13:23

Adelaide 94 : Mansell, Berger, Brundle.

Panis 5th at one lap.
Morbidelli brake his engine.

In 94, never Morbidelli finish on the podium.

It's in 95 Morbidelli finish on podium with Panis... But 8 cars finished the race... At Spa, 20 cars finished the race...


Wow and I didn't even know the motorcycle company even had an F1 team, who was the driver?


And did you see the straight line speed of Sutil at Spa....the force Indai's will be a problem for Mercedes at Monza, and with Renault's F Duct plus podium at Spa, Mercedes would do very well to hold off Renault for 4th place for constructors for the remaining races, looks like Kubica and Renault may be the major target that Merc will have difficulity keeping up with.


:up:

Indeed, F/India have had a speed item up their sleeve since last year and Sutil is just getting better, another headache for MBR. I wouldn't bet against a podium for Sutil at Monza = headache for all other teams.

Edited by cheapracer, 30 August 2010 - 13:30.


#5185 man

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 13:42

So what you are saying is that even though others made mistakes their efforts are still better than the Guys who didn't make mistakes?

Don't bother replying, I can see the only way clear here is to put you and that tecnical genius Fortymark on my ignore list, something I should have done some time ago.




and totally ignores all the available public information since the start of the year of which peices Williams have been waiting to put onto the car, parts they have had before Rubens even drove the first lap.


Cheap racer you are a happy choppy aren't you? ;-)

Yes I'm hurt you have decided to ignore me and by announcing so in such a public fashion. :-(

Whether you will see this message, I know not. However, you can ignore me but you can't ignore the facts which are that M Schumacher was beaten for the 10th time this year by his teammate who overtook him and also had a busted front wing for a large portion of the race.

Farewell in the parallel universe, so close yet so far. :-(

#5186 cheapracer

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 13:54

Coming from 21st to 7th is not bad for anybody especially given the changing conditions yesterday. To say he benefited from circumstances maybe true to a certain degree but you have to make hay when the sun shines or to put it another way you are just knit-picking!


Peanut gallery who have never sat their asses in a race car to see what actually goes on out there.

21st to 7th in this day and age is just great, as Sean mentions above the grid progress must be looking good although thats not a statistic I would want to see as a driver or team owner (probably means for various reasons you're starting too far back) but with Rosberg's result the team must be at least a little bit happier this week.


#5187 cheapracer

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 14:02

Is there any other #2 driver in the history of F1 who has been backing his #1 to win 5 championships?

and also in terms of their respective career achievements.


No, how STUPID is Rubens?? :rotfl:

Huh? What Rubens is online to take out 7 WDC's or an extra 80 wins? When??

I'd ignore you too but you're funny.




#5188 arknor

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 15:03

He was beaten for racecraft again by his teammate

how rthe hell is a safety car a 10 place grid penalty and 2 back markers infront of you at a safety car restart rosbergs race craft :rolleyes:

21st to 7th is so easy as alonso has proved in a better car, those slower guys at the rear/midfield just let you cruise past dont they .....

Edited by arknor, 30 August 2010 - 15:05.


#5189 aditya-now

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 17:21

It's funny how the game is totally reversed compared to MS' first career. Rosberg always seems to put one over him, even on his better days, just like MS used to back then.

All in all a good race from him, he certainly deserves a place in the current field - only that the "Rosberg problem" won't go away, not even if MGP builds a rocket ship for 2011.


Yes, Michael has dropped down in the standings one further place to 10th, and ironically after his strongest race of the season (together with Monaco). He is, at present, a solid number 2 to Rosberg.

Edited by aditya-now, 30 August 2010 - 17:21.


#5190 merschu

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 17:28

Hope next season if Rosberg becomes M.S solid number 2 you won't come here & talk about team being biased towards M.S & him getting preferential treatment and blah blah...!

#5191 aditya-now

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 17:30

No, how STUPID is Rubens?? :rotfl:

Huh? What Rubens is online to take out 7 WDC's or an extra 80 wins? When??

I'd ignore you too but you're funny.


I clearly stated that Rubens does not have the calibre to be a WDC. As analysed, it's a matter of mental zeal, "going in for the kill" quality etc.
Nonetheless, the point raised is that Rubens always seems to harmonize and solidify a team, to "gel a team" (although this was always considered a strong point of Michael) as we have seen in all the teams he was racing.

And in Ferrari it was exactly within the 6 Rubens years that Michael was able to get his 5 WDCs. In the 4 years without Rubens at Ferrari Michael got nil WDCs.

Rubens is not stupid at all, but a genuinely likable and capable bloke. He is not WDC material, however.
Michael's behaviour towards Rubens, on the other hand, on the track and off the track, is despicable.

And, based on 2010, Michael does not seem to have the capacity to gel the team, to galvanize the team. On the contrary, for months now the team (especially Brawn and Haug) have to find excuses for Michael and his performances, Spa, Monaco and Spain having been rare exceptions.

I do not see Frank Williams or Patrick Head making constant excuses for Rubens.

Edited by aditya-now, 30 August 2010 - 17:32.


#5192 pRy

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 17:30

Here is the pre-race BBC interview with Schumacher that Coulthard did:



Well worth watching. Probably the most open and honest interview I've seen from Schumacher. Watch it while you can.

#5193 aditya-now

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 17:32

Hope next season if Rosberg becomes M.S solid number 2 you won't come here & talk about team being biased towards M.S & him getting preferential treatment and blah blah...!



First of all, Michael would have to become a solid number 1 again.

And if he does so, and in a decent way, you will see me also acknowledging that. Yet for the moment the whole 2011 theme is in the dreams of the Schumacher fans. Let's see how reality turns out.

#5194 GoRacing

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 18:17

Does anyone have MS' on board opening lap or two, would love to see that.

#5195 F1Champion

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 18:18

No chance, if he had gone wider, I think he would be off the racetrack on the exit, which he almost did anyway. He did OK, he had he momentum and a better line and took the chance. For me it is Nico failing to mantain a tight enough line... he didn´t exactly left a car width at the exit.


I agree I watched the clip and Rosberg went off track, so had to be careful about rejoining, Michael was ahead going into the corner and Rosberg knew that the inside line isn't the optimum line for the corner and Michael would of gone across his direction. Michael had to take that line to make the exit and also to ensure the move stuck. Not Michael's fault fortymark.

#5196 GoRacing

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 18:23

I agree I watched the clip and Rosberg went off track, so had to be careful about rejoining, Michael was ahead going into the corner and Rosberg knew that the inside line isn't the optimum line for the corner and Michael would of gone across his direction. Michael had to take that line to make the exit and also to ensure the move stuck. Not Michael's fault fortymark.


I agree, it's amazing how people still fault MS for contact with Nico, anything he is involved in, he is responsible! As mentioned, Nico went off track, so it is his job to join at the right time, Michael was just driving on the racing line as normal.

#5197 ivand911

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 18:42

Next year should be very interesting. Eddie Jordan's comments keep ringing in my ears though.

What EJ said? I was interested from the moment I see your post.

#5198 TC3000

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 01:25

The other factors you mention as being ignored can all be discussed hither and tither. Of course, I know I am over-simplifying, yet you also know that Rubens is not doing that bad in 2010 and that Michael is not doing that good in 2010.
And you know where Williams have been the last five years - now it seems Rubens leads them out of the doldrums. Just ask anyone from the Williams Team how happy they are with Rubens.



Why a lot of things can be discussed hither and tither, and why it is entirerly possible, that Williams is very happy with Rubens, and I would agree with the statement that he has a good season so far, it is worth to remember some facts.

Williams ,including the race in Spa, had 84 points last year, if we apply this years point system (82 if we take into account that at one race only half the points where awarded), this compares with 40 points in 2010 to date.
So, if we apply your reasoning, that would mean they are more in the doldrums this year, then they where at the same time last year.

Why I do agree and think, that Rubens is a very nice guy and a good driver, he is not the messias, who has turned Williams fortunes around single handed.
You also forgot to mention, that his great testing and development skills, did not bear much fruits during his Honda years.
His form and results improved after Brawn joint Honda and ultimately when it became Brawn GP.
So maybe his development skills, should be seen in the correct context, and as a whole, and not just if they suit your agenda.

I have no problem with your disliking and your opinion of Schumacher, not at all - but please let´s keep the facts right.
Some of the arguments you use, are a bit far fetched IMHO, and do not help your case.

#5199 Raelene

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 02:18

Cheap racer you are a happy choppy aren't you? ;-)

Yes I'm hurt you have decided to ignore me and by announcing so in such a public fashion. :-(

Whether you will see this message, I know not. However, you can ignore me but you can't ignore the facts which are that M Schumacher was beaten for the 10th time this year by his teammate who overtook him and also had a busted front wing for a large portion of the race.

Farewell in the parallel universe, so close yet so far. :-(


let's also not forget the fact that his teammate started quite a number of places in front of him....and yet only finished in front of MS

Good race by MS moving through the field. First lap he overtook was it 6 cars.

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#5200 tormave

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:35

any rookie who at spa started 21 and ended 7th would have got good dibs and would have been runner for drive of the day - except on bbc of course

Without the rain in the end that made the Mercedes strategy work that rookie would've been Petrov, hands down. He started 24th and passed both the Mercedes drivers already in the early laps. I really didn't see much good from Mercedes this weekend from either driver - due to lack of pace the team had to gamble on a risky setup and strategy and lucked out with the late rain and retirements. The drivers did well to keep their cars out of trouble in the tricky conditions, but pace-wise they were at best tied with Sauber for the "slowest package of the established teams" award.